Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 April 14

Help desk
< April 13	<< Mar | April | May >>	April 15 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

April 14

WP:Excessive

Hi there, an editor has previously brought this issue up with some articles I've written, specifically Porsche 963. My question is, is that article excessively detailed? And at the same time, could someone please look at Audi R10 TDI#Racing history and tell me if that is also excessively detailed. Thank you. X750. Spin a yarn? _{Articles I've screwed over?} 01:28, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Breaking their own rules

Isn't this way of addressing a topic or talk to a user, and I'm new, by the way, forbidden in Wikipedia? Neutral, Not personal, not offensive...this one beat them all! Look:

I have read the section reliable sources, AndyTheGrump, but they are a bit confusing for somebody new like me. Besides, there is a link added to the article page that comes from archive.org and it is on display. I am referring to the article on Grigori Grabovoi.

That definitely confuses me, is it, or is it not allowed? Then, self publishig, I am not familiar with Wikipedia vocabulary, so, thank you for your patience and guidance Truthbetold27 (talk) 02:49, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

That definitely confuses me, is it, or is it not allowed? Then, self publishig, I am not familiar with Wikipedia vocabulary, so, thank you for your patience and guidance Truthbetold27 (talk) 02:49, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy can be confusing for beginners, certainly, but it can't be that difficult to understand that Wikipedia isn't going to treat anything written by Grabovoi or his followers as a reliable source. His claims are ridiculous, and not taken seriously by anyone but idiots. If you are amongst them, that is your problem, not ours. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Truthbetold27 (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Truthbetold27. Wikipedia is not a place to right great wrongs. AndyTheGrump described the situation regarding Grigori Grabovoi accurately. Wikipedia will never give any credence to this man's bizarre theories, unless mainstream sources do. And that seems highly unlikely. After all, he has claimed to be Jesus resurrected and to have the power to resurrect other dead people. And so on. Cullen328 (talk) 07:09, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Culten328. The point I want to make here is, in my perception, that the editors in Wikipedia take things personal, that is my point here. There are some new editors, like myself, that have shared links that, after I researched, seem to be reliable sources according to Wikipedia standards end yet, due to personal beliefs, they do not approve them.

If the Wikipedia editors, don't want to believe that Grigori Grabovoi is the Second Coming, that is your prerrogative, although, can you prove that He is not? On what basis do you comfirm that He is not?

I do not believe you can prove otherwise. That is another point I want to make, to call a group fo people 'bunch of idiots' according to AndyTheGrump just because they believe, is not allowed not even in society, it gets said; but in some countries, bullying and discrimination are illegal.

Wikipedia is a place to report all sides of a story, moreso when it comes down to a living person.

People are free to decide what to believe, same as you, but, editors here are approving or disapproving according to personal point of view and that is against Wikipedia policy.

Editors can break Wikipedia rules, then...If the followers believe that Grabovoi is the Second Coming and they want to contribute with reliable sources, a nuetral Wikipedia editor would allow all sides of information and all reports on the topic...even if editors don't believe in God, that doesn't make it a fact that He doesn't exist.

Personal vs neutral...honoring the rules vs breaking own rules, this looks like a game of power to me... Truthbetold27 (talk) 16:42, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

You misunderstand Wikipedia. It does not "report all sides" with equal time. See WP:FRINGE. It does so in proportion to how reliable sources do. 331dot (talk) 16:49, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

And what about the offensive words? Truthbetold27 (talk) 16:50, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

If you don't like being insulted, don't insult our intelligence with your facile promotion of your clown-car messiah. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:02, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Ah, so, Wikipedia can insult anyone? Truthbetold27 (talk) 17:10, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

It can block people from editing - indefinitely if necessary - for disruptive editing consequent to an enduring lack of competence. I suspect that many people blocked in such circumstances will take it as an insult. The wiser amongst them (there may be a few) might instead do well to reflect on whether the assessment is valid, and try to rectify the problem. Personally, I don't think that being an idiot is necessarily a lifetime affliction - it can sometimes be cured (or at least reduced) by first recognising one's own idiocy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:56, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I know that you can block people.

Idiocy comes in many forms, right?

Do you deny the idea of Resurrection that is in the Bible?

Do you deny the existence of Christ? Because Christianity has existed for milenia and it is a fact.

Lots of people study Osho, study Zen principles, yoga tracts, read the gospel.

They all say that the time of the resurrected will come, and eternal life is coming too.

Now the time of which the gospel speaks has come and the world is in the brink of disaster.

That's why we need to develop our consciousness, like Buddha, Issus and many spiritual Teachers do.

Including Grabovoi. The testimonies of hundreds of people that have healed terminal illnesses speak about his abilities.

Everyone, including you, can benefit from his teachings. Truthbetold27 (talk) 18:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

There are approximately 8 billion people alive today. I suspect that at a pinch I could benefit from the teachings of quite a few - even from amongst those (the great majority, fortunately) who don't claim to be Christ resurrected. And given the choice, I generally work on the premise that claiming to be a deity isn't generally a good sign for a teacher. I'll give Grabovoi a miss... AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:51, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

If the existence of Christians requires us to take the claims of the Resurrection of Jesus as fact, then the existence of Hindus likewise requires us to take the miracles of their traditions as fact, and so on, and the existence of atheists requires us to accept that all such miracle-workers were charlatans. —Tamfang (talk) 20:51, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Note: User:Truthbetold27 has now been blocked indefinitely, per WP:NOTHERE. Contributors familiar with Wikipedia policy will be most welcome keeping an eye on the Grigori Grabovoi article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@AndyTheGrump, @Cullen328 I remember reading, a few years ago at one of the help desks, that any account with "truth" in its name is not really after truth, and/or will soon cause itself to be blocked. Seems accurate so far. David10244 (talk) 07:13, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

You are correct, David10244, that the vast majority of accounts containing "truth" or "facts" or "honesty" as part of their username end up getting blocked in short order, because they are dogmatic and psychologically incapable of complying with the Neutral point of view. If you have not read User:Antandrus/observations on Wikipedia behavior, then I must recommend it highly. Cullen328 (talk) 07:32, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that, @Cullen328, I hadn't seen that before. Good page. David10244 (talk) 08:45, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I am a wee bit tempted to change my username to Truthiness. —Tamfang (talk) 20:52, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Update

ms majina 27th oldest person died a week ago why still on list? 82.3.92.129 (talk) 03:18, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Because nobody has read of her demise in a reliable source, realized that she was in some list in Wikipedia, realized that she should no longer be on that list, and then taken the trouble to remove her from the list (of course citing the reliable source for her death). If you have a reliable source for her death, and if dead people should be removed from the list, then please remove her from the list (of course citing the reliable source in your edit summary). -- Hoary (talk) 04:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

If you're having problems making the edit to the article yourself, you could post a request on the article's talk page along with the information on the reliable published source where you read about their death (e.g. a URL or newspaper details). Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 13:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

MAKING A WIKIPEDIA PAGE WITH AN EXISTING PAGE

I would like to make a wikipedia page of National Fisheries Research and Development Institute which is a government office in the Philippines, however, if you search it on wikipedia, the National Institute of Fisheries Science (previous called National Fisheries Research and Development Institute or NFRDI) which is in South Korea appears. Can I still make a page for NFRDI in the Philippines? Both institutes are not related. VME1500 (talk) 03:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@VME1500: Yes. Your article would be named National Institute of Fisheries Science (Philippines). We call the part in parentheses a "disambiguation". See WP:DAB. HOWEVER: before you do anything else, please make sure your subject is notable by our definition (WP:NCORP). Notability is the only absolute requirement for a Wikipedia article. If your subject is not notable we will delete the article, wasting your time and ours. -Arch dude (talk) 04:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@VME1500: but you can't do so directly. Thank you for saying on your user page that you're paid for creating an article. You are free to create Draft:National Institute of Fisheries Science (Philippines). Once you think that it's good enough -- and as Arch dude says, the first requirement is that it must be notable -- you submit it as a candidate article. A reviewer then considers if it merits being promoted to article status. -- Hoary (talk) 04:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@VME1500: Building on these responses, I suggest you review Help:Your first article if you haven't already done so. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 13:54, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

How can I add an alt text to my template so that it is read correctly by screen readers?

As per WP:ACCESSIBILITY, I want Template:Monopoly money sign (displayed as ₩) to be read by screen readers as "M" instead of "Won". How do I set the alt text this way? Thanks! Félix An (talk) 07:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

To properly use an alt= attribute, you must convert the inverted Won to an image. Then [[File:Monopoly money sign|<size>|alt=<alt description>]].

I don't know how screen readers render title= attributes, but perhaps this will work for users of screen readers:

<span style="{{Transform-rotate|180}}" title="Inverted Won character used as Monopoly currency symbol">₩</span> → ₩

For those of us who view en.wiki on a desktop, the above adds a tooltip that describes the symbol.

For articles like Monopoly money you might want to change {{Monopoly money sign}} to have a |first=yes parameter that would use the long-form description shown above but would default (|first= omitted or empty) to title="Monopoly currency symbol".

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:02, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Adventures of Robin Hood

The Adventures of Robin Hood list of episodes: some have different no for episodes then other references! Such as imdb.com - Robin Hood 33 - The Inquisitor and wikapedi Robin Hood 1 - o6 - The Inquisitor! some episodes are same at both reference source and some different! Don't know how to edit? links for checking = https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0506396/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Adventures_of_Robin_Hood_episodes#Series_1_(1955%E2%80%9356) 2601:601:CB80:1120:3DCF:958E:63C0:DF8C (talk) 11:41, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! The best place to discuss issues with an article is its talk page (e.g. Talk:List of The Adventures of Robin Hood episodes). Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 13:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Observation

I'm very happy that this encyclopedia is almost complete, with very detailed written arguments, but it would seem (this is not a criticism, but an observation) that the pages of the United States are broader and more complete. JackkBrown (talk) 12:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Feel free to add to them, citing reliable sources as you write. An easier way to edit would be to use the WP:VisualEditor. Félix An (talk) 12:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Wikipedians, The greatest number, or plurality, of [en Wikipedia] editors (20%) reside in the United States, followed by Germany (12%) and Russia (7%), so the background of editors is probably reflected in the content they create. TSventon (talk) 12:49, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

JackkBrown This is because a lot of editors here (including myself) are from the United States, and it's easier for us to write what we know about. I see on your userpage it says that you're fluent in Italian. If you're interested in writing content for Wikipedia, we'd be super grateful if you helped expand some of the articles on things in Italy. You have an advantage there because you can read sources that are written in Italian, while it's more difficult for us to figure out what they say. You can even look at the Italian Wikipedia and translate its articles to English here. WP:Translation gives helpful instructions on how to do that. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:28, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@JackkBrown A minor point... I think that Wikipedia says that it will never be complete... David10244 (talk) 07:18, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

https://www.google.com

Sports Kuttayiajesh (talk) 13:31, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Science Kuttayiajesh (talk) 13:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Travel and tourism Kuttayiajesh (talk) 13:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Kuttayiajesh: Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk, a place where you can ask questions about how to use or edit Wikipedia. Do you have a question? GoingBatty (talk) 13:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Statistics within a category

Hey, is there any tools to see the amount of views and length for all articles within a certain category? Preferably also within subcategories? Thanks for any tips! Both GUI-browser tools, or python-API tools are welcome :) robertsilen (talk) 13:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Robertsilen: For views, see https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/massviews/. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Recent changes looking... odd

Hello! About an hour ago, the cosmetic design of my recent changes and watchlist changed to something that looks a bit odd. If an editor more technically minded than me could explain what's going on I would be appreciative. Images are https://filebin.net/l9g4636rgl3exqq8, note the left sidebar and odd looking log entries. It is like this for all platforms and browsers. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 18:01, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: Could you go to Preferences → Recent changes → Use non-Javascript interface and Preferences → Watchlist → Use non-Javascript interface and toggle the check boxes to see if they bring back the appearance you're used to? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Tenryuu, Unfortunately that did not work. Any other suggestions? This is weird. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 19:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

If it helps to know, this is exclusive only to RC and watchlist. The pending changes and contribs menus are the same. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 19:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: What do you notice is different from before on both pages? The resolution is quite low for me to make out anything in detail, and I don't see a left sidebar in either image. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Tenryuu. I'll explain as best I can. Hist and Diff links are moved to after page title. Bullet points are gone, apparently replaced with the UCT time of edit, and entries are indented weirdly. Public logs are looking very odd: they only state the editor doing the action. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 20:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I've checked and this is only the case on EnWiki. My commons watchlist is normal. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 20:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Schminnte: Ok, I think I figured out what the reason is: it's probably because the skin changed for you. Go to Preferences → Appearance → Skin → Vector legacy (2010) and switch to that radio button instead. The weird indentation is probably from limited width mode being enabled. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: That didn't help. It's the same thing on all skins except mobile. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 22:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Strange appearance in watchlist at WP:VPT

Hi @Tenryuu, I happened to see a thread about this at WP:VPT first. It's the "Group changes" option for watchlists (which is not supported on mobile which is why there was no difference there.). Skynxnex (talk) 14:28, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I completely forgot to link here! Thanks everyone for the help. Schminnte (talk • contribs) 14:36, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Elijah Green

I have a professional baseball player who is a top prospect with the Washington Nationals. I have his entire page already written with references etc...What are the steps to take to submit this page? 104.203.36.134 (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! See Wikipedia:Notability (sports) to determine whether he meets Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion. If so, see Help:Your first article. If you are being paid for this work, see WP:PAID as well. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 18:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Help_desk/Archives/2023_April_3#Help_in_submitting_page_below_to_wikipedia. I'm still not sure that Draft:Elijah Green is ready to go live as it is virtually the same as last time.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:41, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Also, if you're the one working on Draft:Elijah Green, do not delete the templates at the top of the page. GoingBatty (talk) 18:42, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Issues loading long pages

Hey there, not sure if this is the correct place to direct my question, but—lately I've been struggling a lot with loading longer pages, like YouTube or California; they're nearly impossible to read and edit. These longer articles will freeze my entire browser ("Not Responding").

Is there anything specific I can do to fix this, on either my Wikipedia preferences, my browser, or my computer itself?

(I use Google Chrome on a 64-bit Windows laptop, and I don't usually have issues on any other sites. This issue happens no matter how many (or few) tabs I have open.) Thanks! Wracking ^💬 20:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Wracking: I was able to load the YouTube article with no problems. If you haven't done so already, I suggest installing the latest version of Chrome and rebooting your PC. If that doesn't solve the problem, then try logging out and loading the article. If that works, then maybe you have some scripts installed that are causing the issue. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:12, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Wracking, using Chromium "Version 90.0.4430.212 (Developer Build) built on Debian 10.9, running on Debian 10.13 (64-bit)" on a decade-old computer (not particularly fast even when new) that had a lot of other stuff running at the same time, the YouTube article loaded very quickly. -- Hoary (talk) 21:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Hoary Yes, version 90 of Chromium is certainly a hoary old version. (Sorry about that.) David10244 (talk) 08:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Wracking both articles load fine for me on a 10+ year old netbook. Have you tried a different browser? Random person no 362478479 (talk) 22:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Wracking, I edit through the desktop site using Chrome on a several year old Android smartphone, and both California and YouTube load in less than one second for me. The California article has been on my watchlist for years, and I have never had any problems loading it. The problem is likely on your end somewhere. Cullen328 (talk) 01:36, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you everyone for the feedback! (To clarify, I didn't think it was an issue with the articles themselves, just wanted to provide some examples of how frequently I've been struggling with this:]) Thank you, GoingBatty, for the detailed help; it seems like it was my scripts! After a bit of guess-and-check, it seems like the DYKcheck tool may have been the root of my problems. Not sure why it only started acting up recently, but I've uninstalled it and am no longer struggling with these pages. Thanks again all :] Wracking ^💬 05:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

How to add italics to article titles

Some articles display part or all of their titles in italics, such as Mario (franchise), which is displayed as "Mario (franchise)". How is this done? -CopperyMarrow15 (talk) 23:19, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@CopperyMarrow15: It looks like {{Infobox media franchise}} has a parameter that causes the title to be italicised. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

If you need to italicize an article title, you can use Template:Italic title. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:02, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia's "magic word" {{DISPLAYTITLE:title}} can be used to alter the formatting of page titles; for example, placing {{DISPLAYTITLE:''Mario'' (franchise)}} on Mario (franchise) will make its title display as "Mario (franchise)". DISPLAYTITLE can also be added in by templates transcluded on the page.. {{Lemondoge|Talk|Contributions}} 01:17, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm guessing that DISPLAYTITLE affects only the format, not the characters? —Tamfang (talk) 21:57, 17 April 2023 (UTC)