Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 33
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Alois Eisenträger
Has anybody ever heared of this player, Alois Eisenträger? Is the article a hoax? Its got plenty of book references. EA210269 (talk) 05:08, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- He's definitely for real - he made over 200 appearances for Bristol City. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 05:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. Interessting story, I have to say! EA210269 (talk) 07:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- A variation on the theme was Erich Schaedler, who was the son of a German POW and played for Scotland. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 15:48, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks. Interessting story, I have to say! EA210269 (talk) 07:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't hang about these pages too much these days, but thought you might like to know that one of my least favourite players of all time, the mustachiod one, is now at FAC.
Would welcome some of your expert opinions. --Dweller (talk) 10:22, 17 June 2009 (UTC) Full disclosure: I'm a Canary
Germany U21 Squad Euro 2009 template
Are youth templates notable? If not, does someone fancy taking {{Germany U21 Squad Euro 2009}} to TfD? Cheers, GiantSnowman 11:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Footballers who committed suicide category
Surely this is a trivial intersection? Jmorrison230582 (talk) 15:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Its just a part of Category:Sportspeople who committed suicide.--EchetusXe (talk) 21:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Personally, I think it's an interesting category. GiantSnowman 11:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- There is an official guideline that covers exactly this kind of problems at Wikipedia:Overcategorization, which also mentions of 'grouping people by trivial circumstances of their deaths' as trivial kind of categorization, and therefore not particularly encyclopedic. --Angelo (talk) 12:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Just wondering, is there any kind of tag that can be added to this article?, it's very poorly written and not in good nick, I don't know anything about this lad to do a clean-up but it's a bad article at the minute. Prem4eva (talk) 19:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- It is a concern. It's also vandalised frequently. I might try and rescue it someday Spiderone (talk) 15:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
This above article has recently been moved to its current title which is not quite in line with our naming conventions. This was done, at least the talk page at the article suggests, to help achieve FA status. While some members of the project have expressed their opinions on the talk page itself, I fear the issue might not gain enough attention there. How should this WP react to an FA that does not adhere to its own MoS? Opinions, ideas? Madcynic (talk) 20:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- AFAIK this is a case of treating an FA review as a set of commandments rather than just that: a review by another editor. I'm fine with exceptions where they genuinely make sense (for instance at All Blacks, which will eventually return to its sensible title), but this one isn't at all exceptional and just makes the project look slapdash. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 22:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- Looks like the page has been moved back now. As a sidenote, Chris, what's wrong with having the article about the New Zealand national rugby union team at New Zealand national rugby union team? – PeeJay 23:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- WP:COMMONNAME says it should be at All Blacks, although for consistency of convention I'm not unhappy with a redirect as per current.--ClubOranjeT 01:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- WP:COMMONNAME also says that Italy national football team should be at Azzurri or that Brazil national football team should be at Seleção, but never mind... – PeeJay 01:24, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- WP:COMMONNAME says it should be at All Blacks, although for consistency of convention I'm not unhappy with a redirect as per current.--ClubOranjeT 01:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Looks like the page has been moved back now. As a sidenote, Chris, what's wrong with having the article about the New Zealand national rugby union team at New Zealand national rugby union team? – PeeJay 23:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
- One day false equivalence shall not rear its ugly head in COMMONNAME debates. I live in hope. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 01:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Looks like you have moved the page, and you did so in disregard of the discussion on the article's talk page. Also, you didn't really move the article back; it had been at German women's national football team every since it got featured. Anyway, the entire naming convention of this Wikiproject appears to be in violation of official Wikipedia policy, namely WP:NAME, since it advocates page titles that are both grammatically questionable and not the topic's common English-language name. EnemyOfTheState|talk 02:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- What's the best way to address that, do you think? Is it to bring the matter up here with a view to changing the overall consensus on how we name national team articles, or is it to rename them piecemeal? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 07:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Relatives in infobox?
Rugby player infoboxes have a parameter for famous relatives - fathers, sons, uncles, brothers etc. that also played the sport. What are people's views on these in football? [Cue a barrage of replies like "No chance!" and "Get lost!"...] GiantSnowman 12:18, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- No chance! Get lost! (repeat ad nauseam). But seriously: No. Mentioning these in the prose is okay, anything beyond that seems silly to me. Madcynic (talk) 12:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Tbh, I don't think these even belong in rugby infoboxes, let alone football ones. The rugby one even includes the player's school/university/occupation/spouse. Anyway, if you wouldn't expect to find it listed in the PFA Footballers' Who's Who, I don't think it should be in the infobox. – PeeJay 13:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- They don't. End of story. Probably best taking that discussion to the rugby folks though. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The cricketer infobox (see Template:Infobox_cricketer_biography) also has spaces for relations. My problem is that if you create an article about someone who has played both cricket and football, the infoboxes are generally too long unless you can find a lot to write. Often with early players, it's not possible to expand the text in a useful, meaningful and reliable way, with references, so that there remains a lot of white space. The latest article I created was about a professional cricketer who played three first-team matches for Southampton - see Victor Norbury. If I add a football infobox as well as the cricket one, they will be far longer than the text. Is it permissible to not use the duplicated field (personal details) so that the infoboxes are more manageable? -Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think they have that parameter in cricketer infoboxes because it is easy to source from cricinfo's player profiles, which list first class cricketer relatives in the main body of information (eg Ian Chappell) Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Hey 'Snowman, just me, but I suggest having a look at List of association football families of note and refer to Ken Armstrong (footballer born 1924) for the prose side of things. I'm not convinced the infobox is the place to put this sort of thing. ps, No chance! Get lost! :-)--ClubOranjeT 09:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
football.co.uk
Is football.co.uk a reliable source? I'm trying to get Kisnorbo to a GA but I can't prove that it's reliable. Spiderone (talk) 15:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Nominated English football champions as FLRC
I have nominated List of English football champions for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OdinFK (talk • contribs) 19:39, June 5, 2009
United States Confederations Cup templates
Should Template:United States squad 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup be deleted? Since Template:United States Squad 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup was created a day earlier. Go here to discuss.
Is this the sort of article that we should have on Wikipedia? Isn't this just too much in terms of unnecessary data. I could understand listing all of the national team's results, broken down by decade, but appearance/goals info for each player?! – PeeJay 18:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oh yeah, there's also this one. – PeeJay 18:11, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
We've got whole categories of season articles for clubs (Example: Category:Football (soccer) clubs 2009-10 season), why can't there be a season article for a national team? Surely they are just as noteworthy! EA210269 (talk) 03:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Before you start deleting like a typical admin, why dont you confer with the wiki group that update Ukrainian Football and/or the original author who provided all the details and work effort?Brudder Andrusha (talk) 00:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Wartime guest players in World War I
As far as I was aware, wartime guesting didn't happen in WWI. However, Chesterfield's Roll of Honour confirms that Sheff Utd player Jimmy Revill guested for them in WWI, while James McCrae guested for Clyde, Rangers & West Ham according to Ye Olde Tree & Crown. So, are these two sources incorrect, or just me :) ? GiantSnowman 14:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- The Who's Who of Sheffield United says that Revill guested for Sutton Town and New Hucknall Colliery during the war but doesn't mention Chesterfield. It also gives conflicting details of his death to the one on the Chesterfield site, suggesting he was only injured in France and died in hospital back in England from his wounds. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 12:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, Revill died on 9 April 1917 and was buried at Bethune - see [1]. Do you have a date of birth for him - if so, I'll try to put together an article. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 13:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- Just you, sorry :-) My BCFC book lists wartime players with a star against guests, and there are plenty. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Likewise, Southampton had several - about a dozen at a rough count. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- "Hi, you may be unaware that the Scottish League continued through the First World War, so McCrae wasn't a wartime guest for his Scottish clubs" - Struway2 on my talk page... GiantSnowman 15:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oi... "I'll rephrase that :-) They were official league appearances, though the registration rules may have been rather more fluid than in peacetime..." - also Struway2 on your talk page 4 minutes after the other post. And last time I looked, Chesterfield, West Ham, Birmingham and Southampton weren't in the Scottish League. (Tongue-sticking-out smiley) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- "Hi, you may be unaware that the Scottish League continued through the First World War, so McCrae wasn't a wartime guest for his Scottish clubs" - Struway2 on my talk page... GiantSnowman 15:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
- Likewise, Southampton had several - about a dozen at a rough count. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Brendan Rodgers vandalism
The article on Brendan Rodgers is undergoing a fair bit of light vandalism - POV segments about his abilities (or lack of) as a manager, from what appears to be bitter Watford fans. Can people keep an eye if possible? Cheers, GiantSnowman 15:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
- I have asked for the page to be protected at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. GiantSnowman 15:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
UEFA Champions League brackets
As a new template has been introduced, please help for change the unsuitable bracket template in UEFA Champions League i.e. before 2002-03 season as the Final has held for one leg only. The new template introduced is Template:8TeamBracket-2legsExceptFinal Raymond Giggs 14:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Messi's importance
Is Lionel Messi a mid importance or a high importance? Surely he's world class enough to be high. Spiderone (talk) 15:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- I wouldn't worry too much about it, the importance classification isn't really used for anything significant. Oldelpaso (talk) 07:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
International transfer windows
FIFA status stated that international transfer windows (summer) should normally last for 12 weeks. As summer transfer windows normally end at 1 September, the player contract seems normally end at 30 June, let them able to be free before the windows open. And the point is, when Spanish transfer windows does not open until 1 July, should we change the player club, likes Kaka transfer has "completed". someone start ass edit war on Raúl Bobadilla current club, said that his new club is effective in July so should not change the infobox. Matthew_hk tc 16:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm of the opinion that far too much time is devoted to attempting to stop people from updating team information which will be current in two weeks' time anyway. If a transfer has been confirmed, then we should just let people edit and leave it at that. The only time there's a genuine problem is where people are editing based on rumour or pending agreements which might not happen. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
19th Century Scottish Clubs
I'm looking for some help regarding creating/editing/disambiguating articles related to 19th Century Scottish Clubs.
I'm currently working on creating articles on Scottish Cup seasons (eg. Scottish Cup 1876–77), and have found that there is very little information on the early participants (which there are many!). Furthermore, (possibly unrelated) clubs have similar names, and I am sure some links direct to these pages rather to the actual club. Moreover, there is little information on the evolution of some of these clubs to a present-day club (for example, Ayr Thistle merged to form Ayr F.C., and merged again to Ayr United F.C.).
I'm looking for help with people with knowledge of this era to help clean up existing articles, create new articles, and disambiguate some of the links.
Does anyone have any idea of good resources for this niche? Macarism (talk) 16:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well, I'm waiting for this to arrive, so I might be able to pitch in with Ayr... Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 22:10, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- Historical Kits has a few bits & bobs about Victorian teams, could be helpful for creating a stub at least. GiantSnowman 15:56, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
- The The Scottish Football Historical Archive has a good Club Directory.
Coaching duties
Hi there teammates, happy week all!
Matter of discussion, infobox notes on coaching spells. My doubt is: when is it merited to note that a player is coaching a team? In my views, either as a head or assistant manager, it should only be noted from the U21 sides upwards (club or country).
However, check this case: should it be noted that the player is head coach of the U-17? I think not, but have not touched it, before the end of this "discussion". I do think it should only be noted in storyline, not INFOBOX. What are your views?
Attentively, VASCO AMARAL, Portugal - --NothingButAGoodNothing (talk) 02:57, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- As he is only a youth-team coach for his club, this does not meet the requirements to be included in the infobox. The Infobox instructions say: Please do not list positions other than team manager (such as assistant or coach positions, or director of football roles where this role is not considered managerial) unless that position is a significant part of the person's career. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 04:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Dutch-Caribbean football
I edit a lot of CONCACAF articles, and there are, as I'm sure some of you know, several countries in the Caribbean whose primary or official language is Dutch – Aruba, Netherlands Antilles (Curaçao, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, Saba and Sint Maarten), and Suriname. A lot of football articles related to those nations are in serious need of improvement, and in many cases there are important articles that are stubs or have not been created. Being that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba are each a dependency of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, should those football articles be tagged "Netherlands=yes" in {{Football}} on talk pages? I realize that Suriname is no longer a territory or dependency, but what about pre-independence (pre-1975) Surinamese football articles? JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 15:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Dual sport infobox?
A number of early footballers also played cricket and rugby; any thoughts on adding parameters to the Football Biography 2 infobox to include such details? GiantSnowman 17:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think that's unnecessary cluttering of the infobox. Not sure though. Madcynic (talk) 18:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not talking LOADS of info - just years, club & caps. GiantSnowman 18:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I second GiantSnowman's suggestion. Some Brazilian football players are also former futsal players, so a dual sport infobox would be very useful. --Carioca (talk) 18:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, but there we have it, then. Cricket, rugby, futsal - all possible "second" sports with as far as I can tell different requirements as to what the infobox should look like, no? Madcynic (talk) 19:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Not really. Futsal would have the same info as football; rugby has caps & points rather than apps & goals; and for cricket, we can just include tests or something. I'm only talking basic info here. GiantSnowman 19:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Many Irish players who stayed in Ireland to adulthood will have played Gaelic Football (less often Hurling) to a high level. But the issue of level in the second sport would be my fear for this feature: Craig Phillips (hope there is no-one by that name) reaches notability by virtue of his occasional performances for Macclesfield, but his local paper in Congleton then digs out the fact that he played for Cheshire U14 Hockey team, or that he was fastest U11 breast-stroker at Biddulph Dolphins Swimming Club, and an editor insists on adding it. Kevin McE (talk) 19:38, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Not really. Futsal would have the same info as football; rugby has caps & points rather than apps & goals; and for cricket, we can just include tests or something. I'm only talking basic info here. GiantSnowman 19:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, but there we have it, then. Cricket, rugby, futsal - all possible "second" sports with as far as I can tell different requirements as to what the infobox should look like, no? Madcynic (talk) 19:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I second GiantSnowman's suggestion. Some Brazilian football players are also former futsal players, so a dual sport infobox would be very useful. --Carioca (talk) 18:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not talking LOADS of info - just years, club & caps. GiantSnowman 18:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Whilst this might seem like a good idea, it assumes that the football infobox is most important. For many players, however, football was a diversion from their main sporting career such as cricket. It's a pity that the creators of the various infoboxes couldn't get together to agree a standard layout, to avoid repeating basic info; ideally it should be possible to combine the football, cricket, rugby etc. infoboxes into one for multi-sportsman (& women). --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Or upmerge them all into
{{Infobox person}}? Nanonic (talk) 00:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- An unified template is possible, I suppose, but you'd always have people who would warrant even more merging (athletes who are also scientists et cetera). For now, making sure that infobox templates look consistent means we can easily include more than one in an article if need be. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Speaking as a member of this and the cricket WikiProject, it's a very bad idea for cricket, as the cricket infoboxes are enormous and every cricketer who played in a major game should have a cricket infobox. --Dweller (talk) 10:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
For your information, the cricket infobox works really well as a primary or a secondary infobox - it has been coded (primarily by me) so that if necessary the personal information can be omitted entirely, so that it just slots under another infobox. If the infoboxes for other sports (football etc) could be coded so that any information which is likely to be duplicated can be omitted without breaking stuff, then which ever is the primary sport can include the personal (duplicate) information, and the secondary sport can omit it. Here is one example cricket (secondary) in action: Rob Andrew; (there may be others, but I can't remember where they are). Denis Compton would be an example of the reverse. If the football infobox could omit the name/place of birth etc (i.e. start as "playing position: outside left") then what you hope to achieve will work, without the need for a super one-box-fits-all solution.—MDCollins (talk) 02:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
- I have edited the infoboxes on the Denis Compton and Victor Norbury (see earlier discussion) articles to delete the duplicated personal information - my initial thoughts are that perhaps the cricket and football boxes should have headings something similar to the rugby one on the Rob Andrew article, e.g. "Cricket career", "Football career". Also can they be coded so that they have the same width? --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 03:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Current sport template removed - Why?
The 2009 FIFA Confederation Cup is a sporting event which runs from June 14 until June 28. Shouldn't the following template be in the article until its completion???
{{current sport}}
Please leave my post as originally entered.
Or are the admins only instituting their own guidelines for the editing of this article?Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- As far as I understand it, {{current sport}} is intended only to be used when the event is happening at this very moment, not just from its start date to its end date without exception. There are no Confederations Cup matches being played right now, so the template should not be added. That's my understanding of the documentation anyway. – PeeJay 19:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- That seems a very narrow interpretation to me, presumably of the phrase '"This template is for articles which involve an article about an evolving current sports-related event which is either changing rapidly or about which understanding is rapidly evolving. This is an advisory to readers that the article may be incomplete and subject to change."' The Confederation Cup is underway in S Africa: it started just over a week ago and finishes next weekend: that seems current to me, whether or not a match is being played at this instant. We have thousands of articles out there saying "Albert Rimmington is an English footballer currently playing for Hobbleton Rovers", and we don't delete the currently at 4:50 every Saturday afternoon, only to replace it at 3pm the following week. Kevin McE (talk) 19:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I agree with Kevin's take, personally. Information can rapidly change outside of game time as well. matt91486 (talk) 21:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- When the whistle is blown for the end of the game there is alot of editing still going on. Standings, reports, statistics, references added etc. To me it looks like that the admins are trying not have this template shown because it gives them leeway to strike out editors who are doing in progress edits.Brudder Andrusha (talk) 22:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Paranoia setting in much? First, I'm not an admin. Second, I removed the template as I was following the example of User:Conti, who has removed a lot of "current" templates from articles recently. Oh, and User:Conti is an admin, so take it up with them. – PeeJay 23:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- The only paranoia is the inconsistancy that you subject other editors. During the previous ECLeague and UEFA Cup season the updates were correct and did not deter the final posting. As far as Conti removing current templates - Maybe he should be here to answer these questions. But AFAIC the 2009 FIFA Confederation Cup is a {{current sport}} and should be displayed as such.Brudder Andrusha (talk) 01:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Paranoia setting in much? First, I'm not an admin. Second, I removed the template as I was following the example of User:Conti, who has removed a lot of "current" templates from articles recently. Oh, and User:Conti is an admin, so take it up with them. – PeeJay 23:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- When the whistle is blown for the end of the game there is alot of editing still going on. Standings, reports, statistics, references added etc. To me it looks like that the admins are trying not have this template shown because it gives them leeway to strike out editors who are doing in progress edits.Brudder Andrusha (talk) 22:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- I should also mention that we should not add live scores to articles as Wikipedia is supposed to report things that have happened and that can be referenced. We are not a news service, i.e. things should only be added here once they have become news/part of history. If, for example, we reported a goal being scored in the 25th minute of a match, but it was abandoned a minute later, we would be incorrect as that goal would not show up in official records. Hope I'm making myself clear. – PeeJay 23:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- And in that case the wiki editors would surely update the entry correctly and provide references if necessary when it is available. Or do you doubt the ability of those who want to contribute here?Brudder Andrusha (talk) 01:20, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Template talk:current sport#Adding & applying guidelines. Rettetast (talk) 05:35, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Adding live scores
From the article history of the 2009 Confed Cup, I suspect this is the nub of the matter that lead to this thread. Brudder Andrusha has been one of the people enthusiastic to post live updates of scores; PeeJay2K3 has been resolutely trying to ensure that such ephemeral details are held back until the match is over. I have sympathy for PJ's position: I also used to try to keep it blank until the final whistle until I was advised here (prob in archive around time of 2006 WC if anyone really wants to look it up) that it was probably a futile task. But the problem remains of goals being added and then deleted as the ref spots the linesman's flag (I've seen it happen), of trying to turn Wikipedia into something it is not, and the increased likelihood of double entry of goals into stats tables. The principle obviously applies to other sports: do we know how they handle it? It seems to me that either we give in trying to hold back the updates, or we try to get it raised to a policy of which a reminder can be placed pre-emptively on articles likely to be subject to premature edits. In the latter case, we might end up with something like this:
Spain  | v |  United States |
|---|---|---|
| In progress |
rendered thus: {{footballbox |date=24 June 2009 |time=20:30 |team1={{fb-rt|ESP}} |score= |report='''''In progress'''''<!-- Do not post updates until fixture is over, as per WP:WAITFORWHISTLE --> |team2={{fb|USA}} |goals1= |goals2= |stadium=[[Free State Stadium]], [[Bloemfontein]] |attendance= |referee= }}
It would be good to get this sorted once and for all, so that whatever is decided, edit wars are avoided in the 2010WC. Thoughts? Kevin McE (talk) 06:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- As I said above, while it annoys me personally when people clamour over each other to make articles current to that very minute it doesn't actually harm the encyclopedia. We waste energy in trying to prevent people from doing it. The only issue is that minute-by-minute updates don't, by their nature, get accompanied by reliable secondary sources (as the match reports haven't actually been written yet). Might as well officially discourage it while acknowledging that it will happen and just letting it be. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- These area (during an event that is in progress) is a center of interest for contributors to Wikipedia. By the very nature of Wiki and that it attracts folks for the confirmation of knowledge is a blessing in disguise. Things get done here and the post event cleanup of adding references, correction of formats, syntax is just another extention of the desire by most contributors to get it right here. Hence by having the {{current sport}} template through the duration of the sport means that output like the following is understood that it is in progess and that edits will follow to confirm the actuality of the post.
rendered thus: {{footballbox |date=24 June 2009 |time=20:30 |team1={{fb-rt|ESP}} |score=''0 – 0'' <!-- Game is in progress: Enjoy! --> |report= |team2={{fb|USA}} |goals1= |goals2= |stadium=[[Free State Stadium]], [[Bloemfontein]] |attendance= |referee= }} Brudder Andrusha (talk) 10:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- And why would a visitor to the page know that italicised scores mean that the game is in progress? We should be providing what is useful to the reader, not catering to a "center of interest for contributors". Kevin McE (talk) 17:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- On the left hand side of the infobox is the scheduled time of the game. If the game is in progress then the scoreline would set apart information that is has concluded or yet to start. How do you propose to differentiate the two instances. In either case the information of italic information is proving something useful and supposedly (99.99999...%) correct and at the same time not slapping the contributor on the wrist because they are to eager to post... Or do you want even more information so as not to confuse? Like...
| Spain | 0 – 0 | United States |
|---|---|---|
| In progress [note 1] |
- ^1 Italics indicate that the game is in progress
rendered thus: {{footballbox |date=24 June 2009 |time=20:30 |team1={{fb-rt|ESP}} |score=''0 – 0'' |report='''''In progress''''' [[#fn 1|''<sup>[note 1]''</sup>]] |team2={{fb|USA}} |goals1= |goals2= |stadium=[[Free State Stadium]], [[Bloemfontein]] |attendance= |referee= }} *{{fnb|1}} Italics indicate that the game is in progress Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Is this appropriate? Seems like a triple intersection to me (American people, Football (soccer) players and People from [state]). We don't have Category:Footballers from County Durham or Category:Footballers from Gwynedd, so what makes Category:Soccer players from Alabama and Category:Soccer players from New Jersey any more appropriate? – PeeJay 23:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- What a great waste of resources. - Dudesleeper / Talk 23:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Most US states are orders of magnitude bigger than the entire United Kingdom, for one thing. If they're reasonably sourced then let them be. If they aren't then they can be deleted on that basis. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry: I can't let that pass. The only relevant measure is population, and precisely zero states have a population bigger than that of the UK, 1 has a population more than half that of the UK, and 4 are not outnumbered by at least 4:1. If you are looking for a country of which that statement can be made (more than half the states have at least twice the population) then it would appear that you are thinking of Lesotho. Kevin McE (talk) 15:21, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Huh. So let's just assume that I said "Scotland" instead of "United Kingdom", as we sub-divide plenty of athlete categories between the home nations. Plenty of states with a greater population than Scotland. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 17:14, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Its just a part of the larger Category:American sportspeople by state.--EchetusXe (talk) 10:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's not a triple intersection because People from [state] is a subset of American people. --Jameboy (talk) 12:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- It could still be considered a trivial intersection though (WP:OVERCAT#Intersection by location). I guess it depends whether you consider Category:American soccer players (1,125 pages, avg. 22.5 members per subcategory if all were subcategorised by state) to be large enough to warrant subcategorisation, and if it does then whether "by state" is the most useful way to do it. --Jameboy (talk) 20:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- It's not a triple intersection because People from [state] is a subset of American people. --Jameboy (talk) 12:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Ridha Antar
Some guy has moved the page for Roda Antar, former FC Koeln player, a couple of times, first to Reda Antar and then to Ridha Antar. Can someone confirm the correct spelling is Roda?The Hack 10:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- I can't confirm the correct spelling, but FIFA, Sky and ESPN spell him Roda, so per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) his name would seem to be Roda. And I see from Talk:Ridha Antar that the suggested new spelling is because of the name's Arabic spelling and pronunciation; on the English WP, there's no justification for moving him to someone's Roman-alphabet version of the Arabic transliteration of his name. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- The article should be moved back to Roda Antar, that is the common spelling. GiantSnowman 17:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Question on Ref Desk
Can anyone confirm or refute what I wrote at Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#FIFA_tiebreakers? --Dweller (talk) 10:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- confirmed at refdesk 2009_FIFA_Confederations_Cup#Tie-breaking_criteria Article 23.6 in the referenced document.--ClubOranjeT 11:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Dario Vujičević nationality
At least four (!) different nationalities for this chap are mentioned in various soucres:
- Croatian - the FC Twente article has a Croatian flag icon.
- Bosnian - Voetbal International & Soccerway
- German - Irish Times, although it says he was born in Croatia.
- Dutch - Goal.com
The Dutch Wiki article desribes him as Bosnian, yet has him in the 'Croatian footallers' category. The German Wiki article describes him as German and born in Germany!
Can anyone shed any light on this? Cheers, GiantSnowman 13:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- His club lists him as born in Bosnia, which probably isn't any help. – Toon 13:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Haha, now we have four different nationalities and three different birth places! GiantSnowman 13:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- This Google-translation discusses people not wanting to play for Bosnia-Herzegovina despite being eligible, and describes Vujicevic as Sarajevo-born but having said he wants to play for Croatia. Sarajevo's now in Bosnia, though I wouldn't like to offer an opinion on what country it was in when Vujicevic was born there. The goal.com page just isn't filled in, and they default to Dutch rather than blank. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- I assume, based on the above, that he is a Bosnian Croat. If he was born in Sarajevo in 1990, he was born in Yugoslavia like Edin Dzeko. пﮟოьεԻ 57 14:11, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- This Google-translation discusses people not wanting to play for Bosnia-Herzegovina despite being eligible, and describes Vujicevic as Sarajevo-born but having said he wants to play for Croatia. Sarajevo's now in Bosnia, though I wouldn't like to offer an opinion on what country it was in when Vujicevic was born there. The goal.com page just isn't filled in, and they default to Dutch rather than blank. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 13:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Haha, now we have four different nationalities and three different birth places! GiantSnowman 13:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Is it getting into anyone's skulls yet why "such and such is an Xian footballer" is a construction to be avoided if at all possible? (that goes double, of course, if any of the Balkan nations are involved.) Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:17, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Let's make this clear: he was born in Sarajevo, Bosnia (that is why some sources define him as Bosnian); his family then moved to Gronau, Germany during the Yugoslav War (that is why some source claim he is German); and now he plays for FC Twente, Netherlands. However, he declared himself for Croatia: [2], so he should be listed as Croatia, at least in terms of sports nationality. --Angelo (talk) 14:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Has he played any international games? No? Then he doesn't have a sports nationality. End of story. Honestly, the amount of grief caused by this ridiculous insistence on labelling people as being of one nationality or the other is unreal. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 17:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- If he's declared himself as Crotian, then that's what he is. GiantSnowman 17:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Crotian? You jest? How about just a Croat.... Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- If he's declared himself as Crotian, then that's what he is. GiantSnowman 17:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- No, it doesn't, not any more than it makes Aiden McGeady Irish. If someone says "I will play for the Xian national team" then we should write "such-and-such plays for the Xian national team", not "such-and-such is Xian". That is of course unless he's actually said that he is Croatian (my Dutch isn't really up to ascertaining that from the source). Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 20:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- In the provided source in Dutch (coming from FC Twente official website), he confirms he declared himself for Croatia after he had talks with the Croatian federation. So we should list him as Croatian in terms of football nationality, especially if such choice comes after having reached an agreement with the local federation. Also, he states he does not really feel German, and his parents are Croatian (father) and Serb (mother) respectively, so I think he has the right to define himself as Croatian. --Angelo (talk) 21:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- No, it doesn't, not any more than it makes Aiden McGeady Irish. If someone says "I will play for the Xian national team" then we should write "such-and-such plays for the Xian national team", not "such-and-such is Xian". That is of course unless he's actually said that he is Croatian (my Dutch isn't really up to ascertaining that from the source). Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 20:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Unless he has specifically described his nationality as Croatian (not his "footballing nationality") then we should repeat precisely what is sourced. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 21:53, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Probably, yes. In that case, there was never any doubt as regards this thread. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 23:39, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Capital letters or not capital letters?
Hi, everybody. I’ve a little disagreement here with Filipão on how we should write Dutch names. I couldn't find any previous discussion on this matter, so I post it here. I think we should write them with capital letters since that’s how we begin phrases in English. But, on the other hand there’s Filipao’s opinion, that since the name goes without capital letters, it should be written like that. I’m not interested in any editing war on this, since I think it quite a minor difference, so if no one here supports my point of view, I’ll let Filipao’s opinion. But I think this is something that should be clear for future similar cases. Thanks.Ipsumesse (talk) 16:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
- Ipsumesse, you are indeed correct. It would be "Ruud van Nistelrooy", but "Mr. Van Nistelrooy". – PeeJay 16:43, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes It's Ruud van Nistelrooy, Mr. Van Nistelrooy and also Mr. R. van Nistelrooy. It's different for people from Belgium (nearly always capital letters)Cattivi (talk) 06:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Nomination for the least efficient presentation of information award
There are many tables around like this:
22 lines to present bare results from matches played in the course of 11 days. Does this have any real advantage over the alternative?:
Thoughts? Kevin McE (talk) 18:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
User:Bruninho is adding FC Barcelona B stats to Giovani Dos Santos, it was removed last time having been classed as reserve team statistics. But the guy seems to keep reverting it back. As a project a few said to have it removed as they can't be promoted or play full competition football in Spain. But I can't find the conversation in the project history to show him. Some help needed on the situation please. Govvy (talk) 20:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Just as a related matter, User:Bruninho has a really bad case of WP:OWN when it comes to anything related to Barcelona. I have repeatedly attempted to cleanup several pages, notably Albert Celades, and the piping of the team as Barcelona instead of FC Barcelona, but he reverts any change on sight, despite the link piping being agreed upon by this group. He also never engages in any discussion... probably because he doesn't speak English. --JonBroxton (talk) 20:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Naming convention inquirySo I have been a little curious lately to some naming conventions this project has. For example, the NFL (and pretty much every major sports league except football) names their season like this: 2009 NFL season; but for football league seasons, we use this convention: Premier League 2008–09. Why is that? How did that convention, which obviously isn't isolated to league seasons (like cups, continental tournaments, and team seasons), get started? I've tried looking and I can't find the answer in the archives. Thanks. Digirami (talk) 21:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Claudio LopezSome over-zealous editor created a re-direct page for Claudio López, and moved the original player page to Claudio López "El Piojo", which completely ignores the naming convention for footballers. I moved the page again to Claudio López (footballer) and left the editor a note - but we now have a double re-direct situation with dozens and dozens of links to Lopez's article having to go through "El Piojo". Anyone know how to fix this easily? --JonBroxton (talk) 05:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Daniel SturridgeCan you please keep an eye on the Daniel Sturridge page please (and possibly semi protect it). It is getting a lot of IP related vandalism and IP related transfer speculation. Thanks Paul Bradbury 10:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Jack Mahon and Jack MahonMega long shot I realise, but does anyone have any source that confirms that these two players were father and son? It seems highly likely given that Jack the younger was born in Gillingham at a time when Jack the elder was playing for the Gills, but I haven't found a source that actually confirms it..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:23, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Sebwe "brothers"Kelvin Sebwe is only a month younger than his "brother" Dionysius Sebwe; so either they're not actually brothers, or Daddy Sebwe was playing around...anyone know the craic here? GiantSnowman 12:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
FYI, there's been a lot of editing and vandalism recently on this article, due to an announcement. I semi-protected the page for 24hrs. You may want to review it for accuracy, etc. Cenarium (talk) 16:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC) The above article has been moved to football manager, which goes against the naming conventions - could an admin please reverse this? Jmorrison230582 (talk) 18:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
David IckeThe David Icke article contained a football infobox, but this was removed and I was wondering what people felt on the issue. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 16:58, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
FA Cup CategoriesI was thinking it might be useful to add some or all of the below FA Cup categories (assuming they don't already exist). What are people's views on this - a good idea or over-categorisation? Clubs that have reached the FA Cup Final Footballers who have won the FA Cup Footballers who have played in FA Cup Final Footballers who have scored in an FA Cup Final FA Cup winning captains Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 07:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
National team yearly articles?Are the following national team yearly articles notable;
--Jimbo[online] 22:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Just as a cautionary note: the creator of those articles, Darius Dhlomo (talk · contribs), is extremely prolific in sports almanac -like content (almost 120,000 edits) but virtually silent with respect to collaborative work (115 total talk page edits, about 1 per every thousand article edits). I doubt you'll get any input from him when generating consensus. — Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 00:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC) References for validity
Exeter City honorary director diesAs you all will no doubt have heard, Exeter City F.C.'s former honorary director Michael Jackson has died at the age of 50, the BBC has reported. Very talented man, extremely weird, but I hope he will rest in peace. – PeeJay 23:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Can't help thinking the reporter had a brain fart here. Is it 'Referee Jones' or 'P. Burns'? Answers on a postcard in respect of this article please.--EchetusXe (talk) 00:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC) Is working with adding soruces to the Antonio Olmo article, was wondering if any of these links [3], [4], [5] are seen as reliable? --> Halmstad, Charla to moi 01:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
John Webb (footballer)I've managed to trace this chap's career from 1969 to 1977...then there's a blank until he re-emerges in Canada between 1980 and 1982. So, does anyone know what he did between 77 and 82? And after 82 as well? Cheers, GiantSnowman 02:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
He signed for MVV in October 1976, he also played for MVV in 1977-78, 78-79 and 79-80 He played for Bilzerse VV 1983-86 Cattivi (talk) 10:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure Bolzen is an error, a misspelling of Bilzen. A source for that is this site: [www.bsdb.be ] you need to register but it's free. Cattivi (talk) 13:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd revert the vandalism but what's the point? I suspect it's a vandalism account. Spiderone (talk) 15:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
J. League 2009 Topscorer rankingsI've been looking at quite some league pages on wikipedia and a big majority of them feature a Topscorer ranking, yet the J. League 2009 doesn't. I've checked at previous editions of the League (J. League 2008 for example) and they do feature such a ranking. So I was wondering if those rankings only get added after the season is finished, or because nobody wasn't interested in making one yet. If it's the latter, I'd be willing to make it if I can find out how to do it. Rhand007 (talk) 16:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Wesley & Nol de RuiterAre Wesley (born 1986) and Nol de Ruiter (born 1940) related? - both footballers and both involved with FC Utrecht, the former as a current player and the latter as a former manager. It could be a long shot though, as nothing is mentioned on either of the Dutch Wiki pages...cheers, GiantSnowman 21:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC) D.C. UnitedI'm looking for one of the many editors that have been involved in the numerous FA class articles on a Premiership team. For the last month, I've been trying to get an American team article, D.C. United, to be somewhat presentable compared to its UK counterparts. I'm asking for such an editor to look over D.C. United not as an American team article, but compared to current FA team articles, perhaps Norwich City F.C. or Aston Villa F.C., which I used as my examples. I put D.C. United up for GA, and this could be used to review it, but any advice is appreciated! Understand that this is more than just a request for a single team. Major League Soccer team articles are consistently lower quality, and there's yet to be one GA or even FA. I'd like to get a start on one that could be used as a template for the others.--Patrick «» 22:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC) References =publisherI was looking at the publisher tag on references on different pages, but mainly on Spurs articles, but no one is using any main uniform, I mean people put the url, or a full newspaper name, or BBC Sport, bbc.co.uk What I am trying to say is, shouldn't we have a set way to have the |=publisher tag displayed? So which should it be, name or url? Govvy (talk) 10:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC) Also for official club pages, use the club name or the url? Govvy (talk) 10:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Does playing at the Maccabiah Games merit an article?Um, that's it basically. If a player represented their nation at the 2005 Maccabiah Games - the "Jewish Olympics" - then would said player, regardless of any club notability, be worthy of an article? Cheers, GiantSnowman 13:25, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Jamie Clark MLS stats por favorThis souce confirms that Jamie Clark played in 20 consecutive games for the San Jose Earthquakes during the 1999 season; however, I am struggling to find his stats for ALL 2 1/2 season he played in MLS - can anyone help? Cheers, GiantSnowman 15:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC) FA Youth Cup Finals of the 1970sMany of the squad lists of this article are incomplete - some have numerous player ommisions, some have surnames only, and one features a grand total of two players! Anyone got a resource to fatten up the squads? GiantSnowman 19:04, 28 June 2009 (UTC) Discussion moved to Category talk:Association football penalty shootouts#Necessity and name of this Category jnestorius(talk) 00:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Can somebody find reliable sources as the existence of this guy? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:57, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Could someone with a bit more knowledge of Swiss soccer have a look I considered a prod due to notability concerns but decided to ask here for more experienced eyes thanks. BigDuncTalk 21:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Gordon SmithI created the page Gordon Smith (footballer born 1954 in Partick) as there was already a Gordon Smith (footballer born 1954). Is the best thing now to move the latter's page to '...born in Kilwinning' in order to be able to differentiate between the two? Eldumpo (talk) 22:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Archiving of talk topicsCan someone check if the current archive is too full to take any more subsections or the archive bot has a malfunction (and delete this thread afterwards)? Given that the bot collected everything older than 10 days, it is well overdue... Thanks, Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 00:29, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Maps on tournament articlesArticles on international tournaments nearly all carry a map, usually colour coded to show either the stage each team reached or which group they were in for the opening stage. There are often problems with these over consistency and the provision of a key, but a new "feature" has been unveiled on the 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup: the map with superimposed flags. I have my own opinions on this, but in the interests of preserving fair discussion, I will simply point out that somebody is trying to establish a vote on the matter here, where some of you may wish to participate. Kevin McE (talk) 07:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Help on FK Senica needed - do we have an expert on Slovak soccer among us?FK Inter Bratislava, former Slovak Superliga champions and recently promoted team from the Slovak First League, have recently "merged" with fourth-division side FK Senica (it was one of those "playing license for money" deals, similar to the one of Poland's Polonia Warsaw last year). However, the merger did not went through without complications. The new club intended to play under its Senica name, but forgot to file in time for the change. As a consequence, the 2009–10 season will be played as Inter Bratislava, but this is pretty much the only thing left from the old club. However, the recently created article for Senica is currently in, let's say, a pretty blank state. So, is there anybody out there who can help to expand the article? I would have done it myself but I don't know jack about Slovak soccer... --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 17:02, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Steve Evans (footballer born 1962)What do people reckon with what's going on at the Steve Evans (footballer born 1962) article? An editor feels it is appropriate for unsourced and possibly libel content to be included and remove my MoS compliant and formatting edit. Thoughts? Mattythewhite (talk) 17:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
One must presume the editor feels that Stephen Fry's article must read 'Stephen John Fry (born 24 August 1957) IS A CONVICTED FRAUDSTER and an English actor'.--EchetusXe (talk) 01:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC) If someone with access to a Rothmans book or something similar would check Rodwell's league stats for Blackpool, I'd appreciate it. I have two different goals totals (19 in Roy Calley's Blackpool F.C. book and 17 in Neil Brown's list, despite this including two subsequent seasons), which is causing me some frustration. A hat-trick he scored in 1991–92 was expunged from the record books at the end of the season, but that doesn't explain the two-goal discrepancy. - Dudesleeper / Talk 02:15, 30 June 2009 (UTC) www.allfootballers.com has: 1990-91 43+2 (7), 1991-92 40 (8), 1992-93 19+1 (1), 1993-94 28 (1), 1994-95 7+2 (0), Total 142 (17) --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Scottish junior footballersUser:Salty1984 has created a Category:Junior footballers. I think this is a reasonable category, but I think a name like Scottish Junior Football Association players would be more accurate. Please comment and move the category if there is a consensus to do this. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 14:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I have started a discussion here. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Looks like we've got another hoax artist on our hands. Can everyone keep an eye out for this joker? He seems to be involved with User:Greekskii too. – PeeJay 10:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Should this article (and others like it) be merged to the main season article? Jmorrison230582 (talk) 18:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Fully professional leagues and WP:AthletePlease consider responding to the below talk page link. Thanks. Eldumpo (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues#Definition of Fully Pro League Darius VasselHi could you please keep an eye on the Darius Vassel article, or semi-protect it. It is getting a lot of vandalism (some rascist) most of it in a foreign language (I assume Turkish) and a lot of transfer speculation. Thanks Paul Bradbury 13:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
I have added a section to this article for Former players killed in action, which needs populating if any one cares to do so. At present, it is rather Southampton-centic, as that is my interest. Cheers. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 15:48, 30 June 2009 (UTC) (feeling rather depressed at the current state of the Saints)
Any admins about???Please could you have a look at pages Alex MacDonald (footballer) and Alex MacDonald (footballer born 1990). Looks to me as if (born 1990) was moved to (footballer), then the editor had second thoughts and cut'n'pasted it back. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
{{0}}I believe the {{0}} template is meant to be used like this example, rather than this example, right? I don't appear to be explaining very effectively the use of the template to User:Earl CG. Mattythewhite (talk) 08:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Player infoboxAm I correct in saying that the consensus now is to use the second infobox (ie the one that uses separate codes for each club) rather than the first infobox (ie the one that you have to use breaks to separate each stint). I have twice reverted edits by User:BigDom to Steven Fletcher (footballer) and don't wish to escalate an edit war if there is no consensus on the matter. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 17:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
(indent)Just the right align when no caps known for first club as mentioned at your talk, refer Jeremy Christie. I can get around it by putting in a dash or something, but left misaligned for now so you can see the issue --ClubOranjeT 11:24, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Question regarding appropriateness of certain pagesI'm not familiar with football articles, so I thought I'd ask here: are the existence of the pages Thailand FA Cup 2009 Qualifying Round, Thailand FA Cup 2009 First Round and 2009 Thailand FA Cup Final appropriate as they currently are? The first two appear only to be competition schedules and score reports, while the last currently contains almost no information as it describes a match not yet taken place. --Paul_012 (talk) 20:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Harassment of updates in Europe LihaThis individual continues disallow entries citing reliable courses:
Live updates are taken from sources such as minute-by-minute http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/fixturesresults/round=2000033/match=2000508/report=mbm.html. I believe that until the match report is up on UEFA's site the info from the minute-by-minute is good enough to be post on WP. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Does playing in the Coupe de la Ligue make him notable? Spiderone (talk) 17:00, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Ian Black(s)Ian Black (footballer born 1960) is the father of Ian Black (footballer born 1985). Does anyone know if Ian Black (footballer born 1924) is a third generation in the footballing dynasty? GiantSnowman 18:40, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
My Southampton reference books are usually fairly good at giving details of other family members who played professional football, and there is no mention of any family in the article for the oldest of this trio. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 21:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Infobox Football biography 2 updateHey folks, Just a heads-up to note that I've now rolled out a new version of {{Infobox Football biography 2}} which uses separate columns for appearances and goals. This finally allows us to right-align those columns and obviate the need to hack in padding using {{0}} and the like. The documentation has been updated to match. If you find any problems then either dive in and fix them or let me know. As usual, any feature suggestions before we make the big switch to using this as the default footybio template are much appreciated. Cheers! Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:33, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I tried the new version on Paddy Kennedy, a newly created article, and it looks great. Well done guys. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 10:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Template:Huddersfield Town current squadDoes anyone know what the need for this teamplate is? Surely the Huddersfield Town current squad can be updated aptly through the main article? Mattythewhite (talk) 13:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Premier League & LMA Managers of the YearHello all. I'm looking for someone with some reliable sources as to who won each of these titles each year. I can dig a few up electronically but the FA Premier League website is a nightmare and most of the historic awards pages seem to have disappeared up their own .... Any help (or pointers to help) would be very handy, cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:58, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Jan PodhradskiHi wikisoccerholics, I´ve been on small hollydays, and I really tried to stay away from editing but it was hard and, I must say I´ve missed you all! I hope you are all right and full of energy to make and improve many more good soccer articles in the new season that is starting. I would like to make one about a player that is a little bit peculiar. His name is Jan Podhradski , he was born in 1917 in a town of Kisač, in the region of Vojvodina, north Serbia, in a slovak family. He started playing in a local club, then in 35/36 played for SK Vojvodina, but he became famous when he came to Belgrade to play in BSK,playing 3 seasons and winning one national Championship in 38/39. He get one cap for the Kingdom of Yugoslavia national team in a friendly in 1938. With the start of the german invasion of Yugoslavia, in 1941, he and his family moved to his parents motherland Slovakia, where he continued his career playing for SK Bratislava from 1941 untill his retirement in 1947. In the meantime, he played 4 times for the slovak national team that existed during the war period. My question is:how are you guys dealing with this kind of national teams that existed in short periods of time, and I´m not sure if were recognised by FIFA or UEFA? Should I consider him a slovak INTERNATIONAL player? FkpCascais (talk) 20:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Players positionsI must say that I find too many players articles where is not mentioned the players position. Many say only in the infobox if the player was a goalkeeper,defender,middlefilder or striker, but there are articles without even that information. Shouldn´t that be one of the most important issues in players articles? FkpCascais (talk) 20:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
U.S. Soccer crestOn a completely different note, is anyone else having trouble seeing the U.S. Soccer crest on United States men's national soccer team? For some reason, the crest image no longer works in the article despite the image itself not having any problems I can see. Can someone help? Is there a coding error that is simply being overlooked? AfterMayAndIntoAugust (talk) 19:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC) So is this being abandoned or what?--EchetusXe (talk) 15:20, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Guadeloupe - 2009 CONCACAF Gold CupI have reverted the flag of Guadeloupe to the French flag since Guadeloupe is a French colony. The local flag is unofficial and here @ WP we have to be neutral and attempt to be precise. However, folks that are coming without login are starting to continually vandalize this. Can some admin semi-protect this page for the duration of the tournament??? Thanks. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 15:46, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Ethiopian Premier League TeamsI'm wondering: Why is it hard to find links that provide everything for a Ethiopian club football team? I'm an American but I'm interested in other countries' teams. Rakuten06 (talk) 21:09, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Football League Two 2008–09As a result of the template at the bottom of Football League Two 2008–09 being changed every year, it's now unusable at the bottom of the aforementioned page. Either it needs deleting or another solution needs coming up with. I don't know if it's the same with other divisions or the same problems are there too. 91.106.114.178 (talk) 22:40, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Do you mean the Football League Two Teamlist template? It's not needed, the clubs are already listed and linked on the map, on the league table and the results grid. - fchd (talk) 05:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC) Olympiacos F.C.The article on Olympiacos F.C. needs quite an overhaul in order to get aligned to the Manual of Style. Note: Prepare for red-white blindness when opening the site, especially further down. Any takers? --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 15:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC) They also have two season's articles for this season (2009–10);
The one with the figure dash is slightly better than the one with the endash; albeit a bit over the top. Can an admin delete the first one under WP:CSD G6 and G10, and then move the second one to the endash title, creating a redirect from the old name. Cheers, --Jimbo[online] 20:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Whenever I try to introduce some semblance of MOS compliance I get reverted. Does anyone else want to bring some input? Oldelpaso (talk) 18:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Matteo GuardalbenI receved from User:Matthew hk an ugly warning where he ask me not to add unsourced or original content and...if I do so again he´ll block me from edditing...bla,bla,yada-yada, I think you all senior wikipedians know the message. The problem is that, as I´m reserching the foreign players in Yugoslavia, I remembered that in 2006/07, FK Zemun playing in the Serbian Superliga announced that will bring on loan the senior italian goalkeeper Matteo Guardalben. As I still didn´t find the complete datas of the serbian superliga seasons, I don´t have the exact number of games that he played for the club, but I added that info(that he was loaned to FK Zemun in part of that season) to his page. I finded this information in the next external sources: worldfootball.net [9] , weltfussball.de [10] , transfermarkt.co [11] , spox.com [12] , sport1 [13] , jelenfudbal (the serbian superliga unofficial website) [14] ,these are the more important ones, but there are much more, just make a google search ( matteo guardalben zemun ) and you´ll see. Guardalben was also shown as part of the squad of FK Zemun in 2006-2007 old club wiki pages, and was also listed in the current FK Zemun wiki page as a former player until some weeks ago was his name deleted by matthew hk... Matthew hk sended me some old club Vicenza website news page where says that Guardalben had surgery that year so he didn´t played, and explicitelly said that Guardalben played in Zemun must have been a joke. Well, I´m not saying Matthew is wright or wrong, or did Matteo get or not to play in FK Zemun, I don´t really know, becouse I haven´t been in Serbia that year and I didn´t watch any FK Zemun game that season. My question to you, dear soccerholicpedians, are:
I greatfully thank in advance all opinions from you wikipedians. FkpCascais (talk) 22:18, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
As I already told to FkpCascais, Guardalben DIDN'T play/joined/signed for Zemun. --necronudist (talk) 10:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
And if your list only players who played in Serbian Superliga, and not those who were part of the squad, then you should remove this guy.--Latouffedisco (talk) 10:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Guardalben never played and signed for Zemun; by the way in the 2006-07 campaign with Vicenza he had a serious skull injury in training that left him out of the pitch for the rest of the season. I have also had a look at La Gazzetta dello Sport's archive [15] and there is no track of Guardalben having ever played for Zemun. --Angelo (talk) 12:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
The Browns of ArgentinaQuite a footballing dynasty: six Argentine international players – five brothers (Alfredo, Carlos, Eliseo, Ernesto and Jorge) and their cousin (Juan Domingo) – as well as two non-international players – Diego and Tomás – who won championships with the Alumni Athletic Club. At least one brother – Carlos Carr Brown – played at some point in the UK (see here for confirmation), but can anyone find out details for his British career, and maybe the other Browns? Cheers, GiantSnowman 22:11, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
PNG better than SVG if the logo is copyrighted ?Months ago I've created this File:Luton Town.svg to replace the PNG version logo for Luton Town F.C., suddenly yesterday user Jappalang changed it back to PNG. The reason for the change can be found here – Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Luton Town F.C./archive1. As far as I know it violates WP:Logo & NFCC. As for now I've changed the article logo back to SVG, please do correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks. Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 10:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't want to see all the hard work done by fellow wikipedia graphic designers and "SVGifier" go to waste. This thing must be solved ASAP, it includes thousands of articles. Today, you can revert LTFC, but tomorrow you would not know what would happen. I do not want this matter to be repeated in the future Arteyu ? Blame it on me ! 16:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Question Is the logo in question from 1885? It appears to be so and, despite the fact it is certainly trademarked, it is a free image. — BQZip01 — talk 00:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Cattermole's AS LevelsYou can't do Further Maths without doing Maths. On Lee Cattermole's early life it says he had 5 A grades but I think this might be vandalism. Any thoughts? I can't find proof. Spiderone (talk) 17:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
You can do Further Maths without doing Maths, i did Further Maths AS/A Level without doing Maths along side of it. Uksam88 (talk) 13:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Football FakesI saw this programme on Sky Three tonight, and wondered if an article ought to be written about the programme's subject, Alessandro Zarelli. He already has mentions in Bangor City F.C. and Peter Davenport's articles, but I wondered if a proper article would be appropriate. – PeeJay 00:16, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
{{TwoLegResultFb}}User:Verwolff has created this template in order to utilise the obscene number of templates in Category:Fb templates. He applied it to the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League articles this morning, something to which I vehemently object. I'm sure a few of you know my position regarding these templates, but to reiterate, I am in extreme opposition to them, and I just hope we can come to some resolution that will result in their eradication. – PeeJay 09:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Template requestHi! Any chance someone can create a template like this, but with all rounds being two legs (including the final)? We have something like that in the pt.wiki, if that helps. Thanks in advance. Regards, --Carioca (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC) KitsI miss in the English wiki the shirt kit included in the German wiki: "_blackhorizontal". The problem is that I can't work with this kit in other wikis. How can this kit be adapted to all Wikis? I have the same problem with the socks kit "_black_hoops_color"-Lemmy- (talk) -Lemmy- (talk) 22:01, 6 July 2009 (UTC) I suggest someone protect this so anonymous IPs don't keep adding "he will sign for Man Utd" or some rubbish like that. It's been non-stop all day Spiderone (talk) 16:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Hey guys, North Road (stadium) is up for promotion to FA status. The discussion (which can be found here) has had a couple of comments already, but it won't pass without at least four "Supports". I hope I can count on you guys to leave your comments. Cheers. – PeeJay 23:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Kevin MooresWe've got a Kevin Moore (footballer) (born 1958) and a Kevin Moore (English footballer). I'm hoping someone can bring up a date of birth for the latter so that we can disambiguate both articles according to their subject's year of birth. Thanks in advance. - Dudesleeper / Talk 23:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Good work. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 20:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC) GalatasarayI've been trying to make some improvements to the Galatasaray S.K. page but am encountering some difficulties. I've been trying to make the page comply with the MOS, get rid of excess image usage, sort out POV and dodgy English, etc, etc. Unfortunately, every time I try this User:Ozanozan will undo it without leaving an edit summary. I've tried leaving a couple of messages on their talk page (and tried to get a discussion going on the article's talk page) but any time anyone leaves anything on their talk page they just blank the page and ignore the message. I'd appreciate other editors having a look in at what's going on and/or suggest what I can do. Cheers. Dancarney (talk) 14:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Disambiguating when a namesake plays another code of footballIf there is a pre-existing Bob Robertson (American footballer), or a Bob Robertson (Australian footballer), or a Bob Robertson (Gaelic footballer), what do we call a soccerist called Bob Robertson, given that those other sports are colloquially and regionally known as football? And if there are two exponents named Bob Robertson of what we usually call football, one of whom is from Canberra, what do we call the Australian who plays Football to distinguish him from the Australian Footballer? Kevin McE (talk) 12:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Steve BenitezHas Rafa got a brother called Steve? Seems coincidental that Steve Benitez managed to win Danny Blanchett a surprise trial at Liverpool?--EchetusXe (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
While were at it; there is a 'Daniel William Blanchett', registered in Brent, London in June 1987. No sign of any other Daniel Blanchett. However Soccerbase gives his birth date as 12 March 1988, something added to the article in September 2007 by an anonymous IP.--EchetusXe (talk) 15:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
If there is only one person saying delete does that mean it will be kept? Spiderone (talk) 16:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I've nominated this list for removal from featured status as since we revised the criteria, it now needs some work to comply with requirements. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC) MLS articles and templates linking to club season articles rather than club articlesHey, I just thought I would bring up a seemingly glaring irregularity regarding MLS season articles. It appears that rather than linking to the club articles from the various standings, they have taken to linking to the club season articles. I was wondering what should be done about this, as it seems to vary from established practice literally everywhere else within the project. AfterMayAndIntoAugust (talk) 01:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Turns out this user was once again the before mentioned blocked user's sock puppet, anyone want to remove this? Morry32 (talk) 23:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC) EPL Fantasy LeagueSo, unless it is kept hidden somewhere, we don't have our own English premierships fantasy league for next year. You can sign up at this website. Sign up, pick your team, and join the league. To join the league, you'll need to type/paste in the code. The code for joining is as follows.
Cheers, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 03:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
GK: Sørensen
Worldbeaters.--EchetusXe (talk) 17:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC) Non-league mattersFollowing on from the sad death of Tony Kempster, a new website has been set up by members of his site's forum. It's still a work in progress, but when it's up and running it should be a good source of information to use on non-league club articles. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 11:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Changes to popular pages listsThere are a few important changes to the popular pages system. A quick summary:
-- Mr.Z-man 23:57, 11 July 2009 (UTC) I've just listed it at WP:GAN, if people could help me to ensure its meets the criteria, which i think it does I'd appreciate it, also I've put a minor requestion on the article's talk page for help with the kits in the info box. Jimmy Skitz's Answer Machine 12:01, 4 July 2009 (UTC) can someone that knows how add a light blue sash on the away strip, I can't find a list of the codes in order to add it myself. Jimmy Skitz's Answer Machine 09:35, 12 July 2009 (UTC) Match templateIn my opinion on Template:Fb match we should add an optional parameter: competition, followed by friendly, Champions League match, league, cup, whatever. What do you think? -Lemmy- (talk) 20:04, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for all your comments! Fb match2 and the Footballbox collapsible don't look like alternatives to me because they lack of some details. I think the (optional) competition parameter would complete the box as the most detailed one. -Lemmy- (talk) 14:27, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
World Cup articlesLooking at the list of articles by number of pageviews, the high number of Confederations Cup-related articles got me thinking about next year's World Cup. Since general interest in the World Cup is probably an order of magnitude higher than the Confed Cup, pages relating to it will be among the most popular across the whole of Wikipedia. With that in mind, I was thinking of starting a drive to get as many WC related articles as possible to GA or FA. Last time around, FIFA World Cup appeared on the main page on the opening day of the tournament after a group of us got it to FA. What should we aim to get on the main page on 11 June 2010? Oldelpaso (talk) 07:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Pageview statsAfter a recent request, I added WikiProject Football to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Popular pages. The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 20:31, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
I also found these very interesting. Would be good to see the same info over a full year, over five years etc. I have begun assessing/re-assessing those marked as "Stub" or "Unassessed" - there can't really be many (if any) stubs in that list, given the page hits they are getting. --Jameboy (talk) 19:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
YYYY Division playoff FinalHi I asked Mr Hall of England about this but got no response so I wonder if someone here might know. These pages were moved from "YYYY Division playoff final" -> "YYYY Division playoff Final". This goes against what I would have expected our naming policies would suggest. "Final" would be uppercase if it was the matches official title, but in that case surely Playoff would be capitalised too. I'd have thought it should either be "... playoff final" or "...Playoff Final", but I'd be interested to hear people's opinions. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Agim Cana or Agim Canaj?There seems to be some confusion over the surname of Agim Cana. Since he's the father of Lorik Cana it would seem his surname is Cana but a search of "Agim Canaj" comes back with quite a bit more than "Agim Cana" Spiderone (talk) 09:33, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Is anyone who has excellent knowledge of Landesliga Brandenburg-Nord (VII) will please help me edit this article but sometimes I thought that Fortuna Babelsburg is a stub since it doesn't have a stadium section (I added it) or players section (It doesn't require numbers since it's not a Bundesliga football club. Please? reply back to my talk page if you are interested... Rakuten06 (talk) 14:50, 13 July 2009 (UTC) TablesHello I'm editing 2009 Peace Cup Andalusia, and somebody (User:Hrafn) keeps deleting the match tables saying they are 'routine sporting announcements' with no depth of coverage. Then all the tables for upcoming events (incl. 2010 world cup, euro) should be deleted? rokengalan (talk) 15:45, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
"# It needs additional references or sources for verification. Tagged since July 2009.
That is absurd. There is no excessive detail and the article is littered with references. goal.com is a "self published source"? err, wrong. Notability is ascertained from the main Peace Cup article. There is no clean-up required of the venue list. These "issues" are a nonsense. Kill them with fire. Tables are standard, the games are scheduled and all teams are accounted for. Here. It is standard practice to input tables, how many matches have been played is an irrelevance. Get rid of those unsightly tags.--EchetusXe (talk) 17:02, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
UEFA PlaqueIs there an actual award called "The UEFA Plaque"? It's mentioned at UEFA#The UEFA Plaque, and linked on {{UEFA club competition records}} and elsewhere. It seems UEFA did present a plaque to Juve in 1987 to mark their having won all three main UEFA competitions; but that doesn't mean it's a permanently available award. Discussion at Talk:European Champion Clubs' Cup#Sure this is correct? has produced the unhelpful response "Google or RSSSF are not a holly Bible". jnestorius(talk) 16:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC) Gremio kitIs anybody able to rustle up better versions of kits for Grêmio then these current over-detailed ones? I can't find suitable templates. Cheers. Dancarney (talk) 12:13, 13 July 2009 (UTC)           
List of Belgian First Division seasonsWhat about this? Keep and expand or delete? IMO delete (if it doesn't get really expanded), mostly because everything can be found in this template. Anyway, have your say. SonjiCeli (talk) 22:05, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Should we have links to team stores?I found that the article for Federación Mexicana de Fútbol Asociación has a link for the team store in the U.S. I wonder if that is proper for an encyclopedia, and thought I should ask before deleting it. Thanks. Openskye (talk) 01:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC) More links than content on that page. Most deleted per WP:LINKS. --ClubOranjeT 02:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Thanks. Openskye (talk) 12:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Village pump discussion on number of football articles and suggestion of creation of WikiSportsSee Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#42,000 soccer player articles and other statistics Nfitz (talk) 03:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Anyone who brags about how many articles he has deleted should be ignored out of hand.--EchetusXe (talk) 11:57, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Steve WilliamsesCan an admin please move Steve Williams (goalkeeper) to Steve Williams (footballer born 1983)?; other Steve Williamses are located at Steve Williams (footballer born 1958) and Steve Williams (footballer born 1974). Cheers, GiantSnowman 10:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Why are these players notable?Why are all the players for the clubs Al-Ittihad (Tripoli), JS Kabylie, USM Alger and Cotonsport Garoua notable? It doesn't say they're professional. I say this because I plan to put all non-notable players up for deletion. Spiderone (talk) 16:44, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Les Dennis' dadI'm watching a TV show with Les Dennis on talking about his childhood, and he said his dad Leslie played as an inside forward for Blackburn Rovers, Tranmere Rovers and Liverpool in the 1930s...does anyone know if he played a first-team game? GiantSnowman 18:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
He was an accomplished sportsman, including a champion swimmer. He played football for Liverpool Schoolboys, South Liverpool, Tranmere Rovers, Blackburn Rovers and, on January 31, 1935, signed a contract with my beloved Liverpool FC." One would imagine he saw first team action with either one or both of the Rovers.--EchetusXe (talk) 18:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
User:MaloneyW.F.CThis user has been on a spree creating articles for Weymouth players, none of whom seem to have played in a fully professional league. Haven't got time to take any action at the moment, but someone may wish to look into it..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:22, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Acadamy GraduatesI have a question/idea and I thought I would ask for guidance here before editing anything. I was wondering what people thought about adding some kind of marker in squad lists on team articles if that player was an acadamy graduate of the club in question. The reason I ask is I think this is pertinant information that isn't captured at that level, however I am also keenly aware of things like bolding all international players which is not really of any value. Any thoughts Paul Bradbury 22:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Galatasaray admin moveUser:Ozanozan has moved Galatasaray S.K. to Galatasaray Sports Club, but he has edited the redirect page to make a move back impossible without admin intervention. Furthermore, he didn't move the talk page with the article, so now we have Talk:Galatasaray S.K. and Talk:Galatasaray Sports Club. Could an admin please move Galatasaray Sports Club back to Galatasaray S.K. and merge the histories of the two talk pages? Thanks. – PeeJay 09:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Fixture of upcoming competitionFixture tables(match sections) of upcoming competions such as this and [24] are NOT ENCYCLOPAEDIC so it should be deleted? This user again deleted the whole table for the matches in 2009 Peace Cup. Please see Talk:2009 Peace Cup. This matter has been once discussed above. If an article that is purely or mostly based upon such information IS NOT ENCYCLOPAEDIC , I'm sure that a lot of match tables in many articles, and even entire articles like 2010 FIFA World Cup, Wembley Cup, 2009 FIFA U-20 World Cup must be removed, which is absurd. -rokengalan (talk) 13:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC) User:Vintagekits moved this article from Philip Hughes (Northern Irish footballer) to Philip Hughes (Northern Ireland footballer) today. Just thought I'd mention it here as it seemed a bit odd to me and I wondered if the move ought to be reverted. – PeeJay 20:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Juventus coach pictureHi Is it possible to add a picture for the new Juventus head coach Ciro Ferrara? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MK1122 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Shaun PejicUser:Pejic49 has changed the height of Shaun Pejic to a value that disagrees with the given source. I bring this up as I would assume this user is the subject himself or a relative. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Druids F.C.This club was one of the top clubs in Wales in the Victorian era and had many notable matches, including entering the FA Cup. Currently Druids F.C. redirects to Elements Cefn Druids A.F.C., but as far as I can see the present club has no connection with the 19th C club other than having co-opted their name. Can anyone confirm? And, assuming there is no formal connection, would the original club merit an article...........? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Egyptian Premier League?Is the Egyptian Premier League professional? It is not on this list and yet on an Afd for William Mensah an appearance in this league makes him notable. I also believe that the Algerian Championnat National isn't pro so Nassim Boukmacha, for example, should go. Spiderone (talk) 07:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Deletion question/commentAs a generally non-editing user of Wikipedia i've recently been watching and trying to understand the deletion process within football articles. Whilst I can see that you have a set of guidelines, I don't quite understand how some of the deletion comments on AfDs can really be anything other than of the 'if it's an AfD I'm going to type delete' nature. For example, one user managed to suggest deletion on 8 articles within the space of five minutes recently. Quite how that user could have even looked at all for whether they really were non-notable and type (or copy and paste) in that time beats me. Instead, they type 'Delete per nom....' and leave their mark. If you have a few people who do this without bothering to check, then is there really any point in others contributing, because the consensus will always be with those who type delete regardless. I don't understand at all the move to delete as many articles as possible (is there a competition between you to see who can delete the most?). Personally as an encylopedia I feel that Wikipedia would benefit more on articles being improved than the efforts spent on deletion (I am aware of the irony here given the length of my comment).8lgm (talk) 13:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Defunct Scottish football clubs template54 clubs in Category:Defunct Scottish football clubs. 11 clubs in {{Defunct Scottish football clubs}} Is there any logic to this?--EchetusXe (talk) 20:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
HBS CraeyenhoutA Dutch sportsteam based in The Hague that fields teams in football, hockey & cricket. At the moment it's nothing more than a stub. Does the football section, which was a major force in Dutch football in the early 20th Century (winning a couple of league titles & cups, contributing international players), merit its own article or not? GiantSnowman 13:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Lists of sponsors, etc.I've noticed that quite a few football club articles have extensive lists detailing the various sponsors, etc. that have deals with a club. I find these sections really irritating, and they just don't seem to be encyclopaedic. However, I'm not sure what rationale would be applicable to get rid of these - or am I plain wrong? Dancarney (talk) 15:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Could an admin recreate this article? He has played (and scored) tonight for Falkirk in a European tie against Vaduz. Quite notable because it is their first goal in Europe. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 19:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
Has he played for Ghana or not? There seems to be a disagreement. I think if it weren't for the number of sources he wouldn't even have a page. Spiderone (talk) 08:40, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Coaches and managersCurrently we have one single article, Coach (sport), which attempts to cover the US use of "coach" and the UK use of "manager" all in one article. However, what if an editor writing about a UK club wanted to refer to both its coach (in the UK sense) and its manager? Both terms would have to link to that same article, which would be highly confusing. Any thoughts.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Wolverhampton Wanderers kitCan anyone whose skilled in these matters, have a go at their two new kits? http://www.wolves.co.uk/javaImages/d1/1c/0,,10307~5840081,00.jpg http://www.wolves.co.uk/javaImages/ce/1c/0,,10307~5840078,00.jpg Many thanks Wolvesweb (talk) 14:57, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Formal petition to change the naming conventionsI would hereby like to make a formal petition to change the naming conventions of seasons and yearly competitions to have the year placed in the front of the name of the competition/league as per typical rules of English grammar, ex: 2009 Copa Libertadores, 2008-09 Premier League, etc. The addition of "season", as found in other sporting examples such as 2008–09 NBA season, could be considered, but if decided to be used, should be added to league seasons, i.e. 2008-09 Premier League season, but not 2009 Copa Libertadores season. I know this would affect A LOT of article, but it makes more sense this way, and it far more practical when placing the articles' title in the prose of other articles. Digirami (talk) 22:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
(summary...?) It seems that the majority of input is in favor of putting the year in front. How should we go about this effectively due to the large number of articles this will affect? Digirami (talk) 00:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Late wade in with a comment While I support this initiative as a concept as I am all for consistancy, I think it is another one of those things which you wonder how much it is worth the effort because there is always someone wanders by who thinks it should be different again and throws up a COMMONNAME or ENGVAR argument or some such, much as has happened for the very nice convention of having "Xion national football team" which is not nearly as nice these days with 10% of them being "Xion national soccer team". Too many people take guidelines too literal and argue back and forth, without actually reading the rational provided to show why the policy / guideline is there in the first place. Take the national teams example above - most of the world call it football, and would easily adapt to a convention, but even if not, a redirect from the soccer option would help all find it happily, which is the intent of the policy, but no, we have to have some different (Australia I see is now Australia national association football team just to be even more different). The commonname and engvar arguments shouldn't even apply here, simple COMMONSENSE should. All national teams, leagues, competitions, squad templates etc should simply follow consistent naming systems.<end rant> --ClubOranjeT 01:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
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