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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 15:08, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kushky Yar[edit]

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On a Guantanamo prisoner with no coverage at all. Fails WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:BLP1E. Tagged for Notability since Feb 2011. The Citations used are primary sources (Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_84#Reliability_of_US_military_summary_reports). DBig Xray 23:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nomination. I couldn't find anything but primary sources and Wikipedia mirrors about this person when I Googled him. Nick-D (talk) 01:40, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator's reasons. --Artene50 (talk) 03:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per WP: BIO. Also, it fails WP: GNG, as the coverage listed from the NY Times is only trivial. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 20:15, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Given that the sources are primary, the article fails the notability guidelines. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 11:03, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:BLPPRIMARY as it has not been discussed by a secondary source. Zangar (talk) 03:36, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Nom covers it all. --Tgeairn (talk) 02:24, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:BIO/GNG. Not that this vote will change the consensus. CyanGardevoir ^{(used EDIT!)} 10:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) —Hue Sat Lum 00:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rape in Northeast India[edit]

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Originally speedied by RaviC claiming of WP:COI, contested by Recorderz who was reverted as sock. Speedied declined by Magog the Ogre who PROD'd with the rational "This article currently looks like a POV-pushing nightmare" and prod-2 by Vibhijain with "The article has many controversial statements which desperately need sources". Prod contested by Shrigley who "believe a neutral article on this topic can exist". So here we are. KTC (talk) 21:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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So what's your rationale for believing this should be permanently deleted? Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:25, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have one. It's an article that I saw has legitimate concerns expressed by multiple users, including the person who contested the PROD. I felt it was best for this to go to AfD for a community discussion instead of quietly removed from CAT:PROD after a contest. (And before anyone say, deletion rationale had been advanced in the nomination even if they weren't originally from me, so this fails WP:SK#1 even if DBigXray & Vibhijain hasn't posted already.) KTC (talk) 08:45, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Merge with Human rights abuses in Assam, Human rights abuses in Manipur: Looking at the article itself, I don't see any justification for outright deletion. The tone could use some refinement, certainly, as regards NPOV, the but the facts are largely sourced by very reputable sources. If anything I just wonder if the content is in the right place. It seems that, as we already have pages for human rights abuses in this region, the content could find a home there and be more accessible to readers and integrated into the larger context. Well documented mass rape or rape as a terrorist weapon certainly passes notability guidelines, but I just don't know if its practical or desirable to have an article for every occupation in modern history where it has occurred. That being said, whether on one article or another, this is clearly keepable content (though again, it could use some tweaking). Snow (talk) 01:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

However, upon closer examination of the article I've found there's at least one instance of a claim that was not verified by the source that was attached to it (though the source was relevant to the article at large), while several other controversial claims are not supported by sources at all. Easily addressed issues but better sooner than later. Snow (talk) 03:46, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The topic is notable, with several reliable sources being present which discuss rape in the ongoing conflict in Northeast India. This article should be kept as it documents human rights abuses concerning rape and has a similar purpose as many other location-related rape articles. Some things are easily verifiable and corroborate with other sources. Cleanup or content dispute on a few things is itself not a reason to start am AfD. Mar4d (talk) 04:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~comment WP:POV article written as a WP:COATRACK against Indian forces by cherry picking incidents of rape and adding in the article. Just a cursory look on the infobox explains it all. WP:COI also seems to be valid here. Also agree with User:Magog the Ogre that this is a POV-pushing nightmare--DBig Xray 05:44, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

as several people feel the WP:COATRACK needs to be kept, so will edit the article accordingly--DBig Xray 22:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And yet Magog does not seem to support the delete, or at least he has not endorsed it despite participating here. Probably because he is aware that, per AfD guidelines: "If the article can be fixed through normal editing, then it is not a candidate for AfD." POV issues are not sufficient reason to delete; the article has been established in both notability and verifiability in its sources and no one here (even those who claim that the original contributors have cherry-picked sources to present the facts in a certain light) really seems to disagree that the events (or at least the claims) are significant. If anyone feels the current material presents a lop-sided account of the events in question, then I'd postulate they probably are familiar enough with the events to know of alternative and balancing sources. Acquiring them and adapting the article's content is probably no more time consuming than engaging in an AfD which, honestly, approaches SNOW territory. No condescension intended. Snow (talk) 09:58, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Written completely in a non-neutral manner. I though that someone will neutralize the article before removing the PROD tag, but that doesn't happened. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 07:10, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - that it is written non-neutral at the moment is really not a reason for deletion. More so a reason to keep and re-write it. Its a notable subject.--BabbaQ (talk) 13:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Satisfies GNG, just needs to be re written. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 05:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I fail to see what the "pov pushing nightmare" is article is well sourced with neutral western sources which are highly respected and it seems to be a very notable issue Dozenlegalrty (talk) 13:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)This account has been blocked as a sockpuppet of Nangparbat Darkness Shines (talk) 00:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Obviously sourced and notable topic. No attempts of discussion have been made on talkpage by any editor who has an opinion on neutrality. AFD is not clean up. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:19, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and clean it up for neutrality. It's notable and sourced. Vertium (talk to me) 02:49, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This page is non-neutral but that's not a reason for deletion, but in fact it's a reason for us to improve the article. Knight of Gloucestershire (talk) 13:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see, current state of the article says why it was created, to serve as a WP:COATRACK the edits to rectify it will be reverted and we will have an AFD 2 soon.--DBig Xray 14:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not nearly coatrack. It addresses genuine cases. If you think there are other perpetrators too, add them by all means... but if you want to remove the current ones, that would be censorship as the material is sourced. If there's another objection that belongs to the article talk page. Deletion is not for this purpose. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:58, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Adequately referenced. A good candidate for cleanup and a possible merge if the subject matter is deemed too specific and it is thought that the information would be more effective as part of a broader article. But I don't see a reason to kill it outright. Ebikeguy (talk) 16:04, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jordan Betten[edit]

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I've listed this under corporation though it's partially about both Betten and his company Lost Art. Neither seem notable per either WP:BIO or WP:CORP. Did some searching and while celebs might have bought some of his goods, nobody seems to have talked about it. Most Google search results are just back to Betten's corp site or his own profiles on various social networking. Other results aren't related. Dismas|^(talk) 21:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete - promotional and no credible claim of notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:18, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete for lack of verifiable sources, particular so given this is an BLP. - Mailer Diablo 01:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Article meets neither WP:BIO nor WP:N --Tgeairn (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Disney XD. Closed per RadioFan opening a merge discussion (non-admin closure) Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 17:05, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disney XD (Netherlands & Flanders)[edit]

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No references, article is basically content that should be merged with Disney XD Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 20:18, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete All these individual Disney XD articles are not needed. RadioFan (talk) 15:11, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment All country/region specific articles in the Disney XD category have been tagged for merge, they are each essentially copies of the parent article along with unsourced, speculative history RadioFan (talk) 15:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The English Workshop[edit]

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Blatant self-promotion. Article created by the founder of the company. Claims to be a "school" (which is why speedy was declined), but is just another company doing English classes in Spain. Even the article says there are several others. No evidence of notability, and one of millions of similar companies worldwide.

Delete. I would have agreed with the speedy deletion but it never hurts to have a couple of sets of eyes look at an article, I think. Notability is neither asserted nor present and there are no reliable sources. And, it's pretty much advertising, although mild. Ubelowme _U ^Me 21:08, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:RS and WP:N The article was created by Paul Morse here who founded this school but there is no clear assertion of the school's importance. That is the key point. --Artene50 (talk) 03:22, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: non notable private school, no assertion of notability, insuffcient coverage in RS to satisfy GNG. Jezhotwells (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:ORGIN and WP:N. Zangar (talk) 03:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Article meets neither WP:NCORP nor WP:GNG --Tgeairn (talk) 02:17, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to List of fictional people of the Three Kingdoms. Possibly List of people of the Three Kingdoms as well. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:36, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of people of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms[edit]

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Requested by 220.255.1.85 for being a duplication of an existing page, an older version of List of people of the Three Kingdoms dated February 2011. Benjitheijneb (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comment~~ I personally do not see any reason why this list must exist, but I am unwilling to base my own uncertainty as a reason for its deletion; I can imagine a use for a list of characters in this novel - which comprises neither ~~the whole of the fictional characters list~~ nor the whole of the historical personnages list; thus, I am unsure whether this qualifies for WP:Notability or WP:PLOT. Granted, the article is nevertheless a carbon copy of the old version of List of people of the Three Kingdoms, but I am also uncertain whether to delete it on that grounds, as such an act may be demolishing a house before it's built. ~~Thus, I will reserve comment until explanatory Wikipedia guidelines are presented which resolves these issues.~~ Benjitheijneb (talk) 20:25, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Change to Delete. As per _dk's objection of the article being a content fork (as seen on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Three Kingdoms), combined with concerns over WP:Notability stated above WP:PLOT. Benjitheijneb (talk) 20:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, having just seen that the fictional characters list ALREADY clarifies which characters are and are not from Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Benjitheijneb (talk) 21:17, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge any useful content to List of fictional people of the Three Kingdoms. Merge is additionally indicated by the usefulness of this title as a redirect. Anarchangel (talk) 17:17, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Merge chapter citations into List of fictional people of the Three Kingdoms and possibly List of people of the Three Kingdoms. In my opinion this doesn't comprise a content fork since its domain is solely Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but our two current lists have enough problems as it is without introducing a third even more problematic list. Snuge purveyor (talk) 04:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 15:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thurmaston Town F.C.[edit]

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Team has not played in the FA Cup or FA Vase. In addition to this, the club has not played at a high enough level. The Leicestershire Senior League has never officially been at level 10 (step 6). The consensus is currently level 10 as it is the level at which teams compete at the FA Cup. This has never been the case for the LSL. I think the previous keep decision was wrong as although it was de facto below the Midland Alliance, it was still officially a step 7 league like the Kent County League (pre-Kent Invicta League) or the Essex Olympian League is currently. There was still a 2 league gap between the LSL and the MA in reality. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 20:02, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete This article fails WP: GNG, as the only source is the team's website, which isn't considered reliable. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 20:16, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 20:18, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG.--Charles (talk) 09:58, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete non-notable team; WP:GNG CyanGardevoir ^{(used EDIT!)} 10:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 15:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Zen Nihon Sogo Budo Renmei[edit]

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I can't see how this article might meet WP:ORG, nor even attempt to assert that it meets that notability criteria. — Fly by Night (talk) 19:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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'Comment This was a little fast off the mark. I agree it does not seem notable at all but a notability tag added to a newly created article seems the better route - then if references and clarification are not forthcoming (say a week or so later) then AfD. The author of the page has created several other pages of questionable notability but worse in response to this has tried to AfD a well established and notable organization International Kendo Federation out of revenge?? He did it by copy/paste so I don't even know if it would show up. His editing style has been called into question in the past.Peter Rehse (talk) 05:44, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it was a little fast off the mark. But as it happens, little or no editing has taken place since since my tag. So I think efficient might be a better description ;-) Regarding the AfD template: no AfD discussion page was created and no AfD listing was made. I also think that the International Kendo Federation is notable. I've removed the AfD tag. — Fly by Night (talk) 20:40, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Article has no independent sources and gives no indication of why this organization is notable. Papaursa (talk) 18:42, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article is almost a direct copy of the web site. Most notable is that it talks about holding the events in the past - is it still active?Peter Rehse (talk) 00:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Peter, lack of independent, verifiable sources. - Mailer Diablo 01:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:GNG, WP:ORG --Tgeairn (talk) 02:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy deleted WP:CSD#G7 by TexasAndroid. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 21:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Larry W. Steele[edit]

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Not speedy-able because an assertion of importance ("award-winning") is made. However I can't find appropriate sources; fails WP:GNG. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 19:07, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete as G11 (wholly promotional). Note that the article's author blanked it, so it might be speediable under G7 (author requested) - I wasn't sure if that applies when an AfD has been created so I restored the content. --bonadea contributions talk 19:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 15:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Forest Star U13 F.C.[edit]

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Non-notable amateur youth football team. Haven't played in the national cup competition and so fail WP:FOOTYN, otherwise fails WP:GNG. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 19:00, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Non-notable U13s team. Agree with nominator. Del_♉sion23 (talk) 20:11, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. Giant Snowman 20:18, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete nn. U13, really? KTC (talk) 22:18, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No indication of significant coverage, meaning this article fails WP:GNG. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:16, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - clearly non-notable -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:56, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - youth teams are rarely notable, and I see no evidence that this is an exception. ~~ Bettia ~~ ^talk 10:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - NN, for shame. Brianhe (talk) 04:35, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete per CSD G11. Quote: They have 12 players including me. Errr...if that isn't COI, I don't know what is... CyanGardevoir ^{(used EDIT!)} 10:52, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) →B music ian 02:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gatari Air Service[edit]

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Not notable. No assertion of notability. No external refs only its own web-site Velella ^{Velella Talk} 16:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral Its not notable and probably doesn't merit a wikipedia article but its still in business for 29 years apparently. And there are 4 images of its aircraft. I probably still lean toward delete. --Artene50 (talk) 19:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep: Appears to have been involved in a scandal involving the Indonesian President? Possible references: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] - the last one especially looks promising. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

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Keep per the references provided by The Bushranger. Tempo reference is pretty good (bit of background information on the company, including verification that it was established in 1983). Books look okay too. Can't access Gatra, although that is a reputable magazine (not in the same class as Tempo, but not far behind) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:36, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've effected a fairly large expansion, this should pass WP:HEY now. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:16, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep now per the extra references provided. --Artene50 (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, good work on the refs provided by The Bushranger. - Mailer Diablo 01:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Indian Idol 5. (non-admin closure) →B music ian 02:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Swaroop Khan[edit]

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Indian singing-reality-show contestant. Stood 4th. Fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 09:57, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, WP:BLP1E. Specs112 t c 13:24, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Indian Idol 5 per WP:BLP1E.Cavarrone (talk) 07:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect - as above. No indication that his appearance has started a career that has coverage to establish notability. -- Whpq (talk) 16:17, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Cavarrone. - Mailer Diablo 01:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Dipankan ^{(Have a chat?)} 11:18, 6 July 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai![edit]

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This article fails per WP:N, looking at sources this appears to be a one shot manga which in 2011 an announcement was made that it would be turned into an anime, no recent news that I could find since then. Deprodded by an IP. Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's actually at least two volumes; a second was released in April. The obi again indicates that the an anime is in the works. It's planned to come out next year according to the official blog (via ja.wiki) Shiroi Hane (talk) 02:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Very weak keep or incubate. The fact that there were sources confirming that an anime adaptation was in the works should just barely be enough to establish notability (but not by much). However, due to a lack of news since then and few reliable sources, incubation until more sources are found and the anime's release is near won't hurt either. Of course, additional sources are always welcomed. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I went over to the Japanese wiki entry for the series [6] and there seems to be a lot of sources, but it'll take me a while to see if they're all usable or not. (Hey, all Wikipedias suffer the same issues of people putting in sources that actually aren't usable.)Tokyogirl79 (talk) 04:48, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, it's verifiable though the sources are in Japanese (I checked the jp article). - Mailer Diablo 02:06, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, relative Japanese article is full of references. Cavarrone (talk) 05:59, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 05:24, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Synthetic programming[edit]

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First of all, the couple of sentences in this page don't really mean anything, as far as I can tell. "Assembly language programming in scripting languages"? What is that supposed to mean? Anyway, I had never heard of this, which led me to do a quick Google search, and there doesn't seem to be anything on Google about this either. At least under this name. Dtm1234 (talk) 15:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Caution advised: The first page listed in the "Implementations" sources has been reported as a malware attack page by at least one anti-viral service. I know of an editor who uses Sandbox VM's to investigate this sort of stuff safely - I will approach him about opening the page and pasting it's text into subpage here for us to assess. Snow (talk) 21:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, so thanks to the quick and generous assistance of the afore-mentioned editor, I have this to report:

"The 15th of this month Google found some malware on corepy.org. Here is a piece of HTML that was archived with the wayback machine. I think its clean now, it seems like they simply restored a backup that was made before the attack happened, but the website contains at least 7500 links (it is a mediawiki installation) so we are going to have to wait until Google checks it again to see if they cleaned it all up. The website looks like this in Chrome."

So it seems the page is likely clean, but with the screenshot available for evaluative purposes, users should still use their discretion and probably avoid the site for the time being (or at least apply caution if navigating there) as neither I nor the editor I consulted with are experts capable of determining that it has been completely cleaned. Snow (talk) 23:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Dtm1234 (talk) 00:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NP. ;) Snow (talk) 03:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Based on the page the screenshot of that page above, it seems like that is just a way of doing inline assembly, something about which there is already a perfectly good article about. Synthetic programming seems to be, at best, just another (very uncommon) way of talking about that or, more likely, a neologism. Dtm1234 (talk) 00:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The rare occurrences of the term "synthetic programming" in the literature, such as here, appear to be completely unrelated to the topic of this article (which is indeed inline assembly). The term is not a plausible name for inline assembly and does not occur in the given references. --Lambiam 17:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - a not very notable term for inline assembly in python scripts that seems to have been coined by two authors (link), and probably isn't used by very many other people given the small number of relevant Google hits. CodeTheorist (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:47, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Laura Rushfeldt[edit]

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Unable to find reliable, secondary sources which provide in-depth coverage of this theater actress to evidence notability under WP:GNG, although one source did give one sentence of coverage to a single performance in a particular play. [7] Has had a couple voice-over roles, but doesn't seem to have attracted more than an unreliable database listing or two as a result of that work. Additional sources welcomed, as always. j⚛e decker ^talk 16:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete unfortunately. The IMDB source for this person is really short at only 3 films in 3 different years. This does not enhance her notability in the film industry. I must conclude that she must be a rather minor actress. --Artene50 (talk) 04:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, fails WP:GNG. - Mailer Diablo 02:11, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, Not enough notability. Vincelord (talk) 15:02, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) →B music ian 02:52, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Demographic-economic paradox[edit]

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OR article. Title invented by Wikipedia. Not a single source used in the article uses the term "Demographic-economic paradox". Yes, there is a negative correlation between income and fertility/population growth - so what? There are all kinds of correlations between various variables. VolunteerMarek 13:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep My initial lean was to delete, as a Google search of the term turned up many references, but all that I reviewed (with one potential exception) traced to the Wikipedia article:

WP itself
[8] A discussion forum linking to the WP article
[9] A blog entry, linking to the WP article
[10] a content-free entry in a list of paradoxes, probably scraped from WP
[11] a content-free entry in a newspaper, probably scrapped from WP
[12] A blog entry, scraped from the WP article
[13] A discussion forum linking to the WP article
[14] Use of the term without a WP reference, although written after the WP article, noso not clear that it is independent.

However, a Google search of books, while turning up some Wikipedia compilations, also turned up some independent sources, pre-dating the WP article.

1981 Book—Peter Kriedte; Hans Medick; Jürgen Schlumbohm (1981). Industrialization Before Industrialization: Rural Industry in the Genesis of Capitalism. CUP Archive. pp. 57–. ISBN 978-0-521-28228-4. Retrieved 30 June 2012.
2006 Book—Paul Ankomah (2006). Time Shift, Leisure and Tourism: Impacts of Time Allocation on Successful Products and Services. Erich Schmidt Verlag GmbH &. pp. 306–. ISBN 978-3-503-09746-3. Retrieved 30 June 2012.
1995 Book—Herwig Birg (1995). World population projections for the 21st century: theoretical interpretations and quanitative siumulations. Campus Verlag. ISBN 978-3-593-35432-3. Retrieved 30 June 2012.

It appears the phrase was coined by Herwig Birg, perhaps in 1995. However, the original phrase was "Demo-economic paradox". A search in Google for that term yields hits other than the WP article.

It appears the article needs better referencing, not deletion.--SPhilbrick (Talk) 12:57, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - AfD is not for clean-up, and this article appears to document a valid concept. Bearian (talk) 23:26, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The above book citations disprove the accusation of original research invented by Wikipedia. The concept was popularized by Mark Steyn's 2006 book America Alone and also show up in [15]--Yannick (talk) 22:57, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy keep WP:SK#1 nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 22:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Chosen One (novel)[edit]

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~~Unreferenced with no indications of notability; the author's name is a redlink. Specs112 t c 15:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)~~ Withdrawing nomination. Specs112 t c 18:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. I've added a few references, but I think it still falls short of WP:BK. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 16:17, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Keep per Arxiloxos. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 18:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. My brief search found nothing beyond what was there and added by Arms & Hearts, for which work thanks; I admit to being somewhat swayed by the fact that it got reviewed in the New York Times twice, by different reviewers, and at least one of them is a decidedly non-trivial analysis. I was also slightly swayed by the fact that there were multiple in-depth reviews of this book in non-reliable sources; they are non-reliable by dint of the fact that they do not exercise what we call editorial control, but the reviews themselves were non-trivial. Ubelowme _U ^Me 16:55, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Wow, I'm going to have to search harder next time (there were many pages of blog posts, social media and the like, is my only defense to laziness). Thanks to Arxiloxos, whose hard work has strengthened my Keep in its resolve. Ubelowme _U ^Me 17:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In addition to the reviews noted above, here are reviews in Newsday[16], Buffalo News[17], a starred review in Publishers Weekly[18], plus the Kirkus review [19], a one-sentence rave from School Library Journal[20], and a 2009 Whitney Award. Taken together seems like enough. --Arxiloxos (talk) 17:50, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Although most of the reviews are short ones in lists of recommended reading, they are in very significant sources, and there's multiple reviews. I think this book is notable enough that the encyclopedia will be better with an article about it. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 18:02, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm changing my !vote to keep and withdrawing the nomination. Can someone close this as keep? I have no idea how closing AFDs works. Specs112 t c 18:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Buffalo Public Schools#PS 3 D’Youville Porter Campus School. (non-admin closure) MacMed^talk _stalk 15:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

D'Youville Porter Campus School[edit]

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Nothing particularly special about this school, and it's an elementary school; we usually don't keep those. Specs112 t c 15:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Buffalo Public Schools#PS 3 D’Youville Porter Campus School per nom. Merge relevant reliably sourced content, if there is any. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 16:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect- Per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes#Schools. Only routine coverage. Dru of Id (talk) 16:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus.

Okay, this is a very poor-quality discussion animated mostly by personal sentiments instead of Wikipedia policies and practice. I'm discounting all the opinions, no matter how "strong" or "speedy", that are based on editors' personal opinions about the article's current contents or on other weak arguments such as WP:OTHERSTUFF, or no arguments at all. Notably, the argument that this should be deleted as an attack page is preposterous (there's a rather evident distinction between making an attack and describing derogatory slogans made up by others), as is the argument for keeping it just because a laudatory slogan also has an article. I'm also discounting all opinions that make allegations of misconduct (such as hounding) against others: AfD is not a dispute resolution forum.

On that basis, the only opinions I'm taking into consideration are those by TheSpecialUser, Rsrikanth05 and Ansumang (keep), and Future Perfect at Sunrise, CodeTheorist, Averroist, Shrigley and Samar (delete). With respect to these opinions, we do not have a clear consensus to delete, so I'm closing the discussion as "no consensus".

How to proceed now? I recommend to start a talk page discussion or a formal WP:RfC about whether this should be merged to Anti-Pakistan sentiment, as has been variously suggested. If that RfC is inconclusive, the article may be renominated for deletion (in the hope that the second discussion will be less of a mess). Sandstein 08:19, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistan Murdabad[edit]

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This article very aptly fits a dictionary definition of WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:POV editing, created in response to another article Pakistan Zindabad. The subject of the article is a derogatory attack term which is inappropriate and has no place here, by any stretch. The article, if not outright deleted, should preferably be merged into Anti-Pakistan sentiment. I cannot see any WP:AGF involved in the creation of this article. There are heaps of slogans, and last time I checked, Wikipedia didn't have articles on attack slogans like "Death to America", "Death to India" etc. Mar4d (talk) 14:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as nominator. Mar4d (talk) 17:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep Another example of bad faith nomination. Please see WP:NOTCENSORED. Notability has been proven, and the article has been written in a neutral manner, with only those facts which have been verified by WP:RSs. When Pakistan Zindabad (Long Live Pakistan) can have a place on Wikipedia, then why not Pakistan Murdabad, and that too when both have almost equal coverage. This also seems a case of WP:HOUNDING, as the article was an orphan at the time of speedy deletion nomination. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 14:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep - Not a bad faith nom for sure but I doubt that how did Mar4d got to this article? There will always be difference of opinions among editors. But I have to say that the nom isn't proper at all. It is not WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:POV obviously as notability has been established with ample of WP:RS in the article to meet WP:GNG and many (I mean tons of them) are available online. It is not POV as it has been written in a neutral manner. "Pakistan Murdabad" which means "Death to Pakistan" is much more popular and frequently used in conflicts, then "Death to America" and thus it doesn't have any article. This is a notable topic and it has been proven by the use of it at so many events by different notable people. →TSU ^tp* 15:03, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Pakistan Murdabad" which means "Death to Pakistan" is much more popular and frequently used in conflicts, then "Death to America" and thus it doesn't have any article. Hogwash. What makes you say that, other than your own personal opinion? Mar4d (talk) 15:32, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not an personal opinion. This and This. →TSU ^tp* 15:36, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Even better, here and here. →TSU ^tp* 15:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You link to Google searches for death to america, but you should have linked to "death to america". JamesBWatson (talk) 16:55, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Mar4d Your argument is completely invalid. If no article has been created on a related topic, then that dos not means that no such article should be kept. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 15:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quite. Feel free to create Death to America if you like, but the fact that nobody has yet done so isn't a reason for deleting Pakistan Murdabad. I think Death to America is used sufficiently often in some parts of the world that it may well be notable enough for an article. JamesBWatson (talk)

@TSU: Good, now do a same google search on India Murdabad and Hindustan Murdabad and all other catchphrases. What exactly do you intend to prove? And as for your other comment, no, "Death to America" is used worldwide, but I don't know why you took up the subject. Just to summarise, I'm not impressed by your argument, try this: Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#Google_test. Mar4d (talk) 17:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I m aware of that. I m talking about the mentions of the phrase "Pakistan Murdabad" in the links not the hits. →TSU ^tp* 17:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete per WP:ATTACK. I don't know how it came to AfD, it should have been speedy deleted per CSD#G10. --SMS ^Talk 16:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Errm, what? Where on earth is the attack? It doesn't attack Pakistan, it simply reports on an expression which is used by some people to attack Pakistan. To say it should be speedily deleted as an attack page makes about as much sense as saying that Adolf Hitler should be deleted because it is an antisemitic page, or that Cyanide should be deleted because it is a deadly poisonous page. JamesBWatson (talk) 17:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So if someone comes up tomorrow with an article called "Fuck XYZ country" and describe its use, you would have no objections? Mar4d (talk) 17:18, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)This kind of expression is used for all nations, ethnic groups and people too, by their rivals. Tell me won't these be attack pages: "Death to <person>", "Death to <ethnic group>", "Death to <nation>", like "Death to Bush", "Death to Obama", these kind of expressions are reported abundantly, but this don't make it a valuable content for an encyclopedia, it may be used in an article with context where required but it should not have a separate article. Rivals of a country, group or a person also hurl abuses about them, will they also find place among our articles? --SMS ^Talk 17:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistan Murdabad is a very popular slogan. The article also describes the origin of the slogan. Again to remind, Wikipedia is not censored. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 15:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong KEEP: The page is no where an attack page, its just showcases a very very popular quote. The article is not attacking the country of Pakistan as an whole. Well, yeah, remember that Wikipedia is uncensored. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 17:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep: The article is written in accordance with the policies of Wikipedia and I don't see any reason why it should be deleted. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia and knowledge repository. People might want to learn more about "Pakistan Murdabaad". No harm in creating such articles. Editors should not get sentimental over here.BPositive (talk) 17:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, trivial WP:OR. The existence of the slogan as such is presumably a trivial fact of the Hindi language – just as in English you can trivially create a "down with X" slogan about anything you hate, and a "long live Y" slogan about anything you support. The fact that people use such slogans about various issues and at various occasions doesn't render these stereotyped slogans themselves notable, separately from the notability of the political issue each of them represents. The article consists solely of an enumeration of separate and unconnected cases where people are reported to have used this slogan, without – as far as I can see – any source discussing the slogan as a cultural or political phenomenon in its own right. As such, the article is a paradigm case of WP:SYNTH Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:56, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The AfD is unusually attracting keep !votes from users who are mostly related to WikiProject India, even though this article is not listed there. I am going to place {{Not a ballot}} at the top to remind editors that this is not a majority vote discussion and keeping in mind WP:COI and WP:NOTVOTE sensitivities. India's (percieved) hatred of Pakistan alone is not an adequate enough reason to keep this WP:SYNTH article. Mar4d (talk) 18:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- So what's your problem if people are commenting from WP India. Shouldn't we participate in the discussion? Please stop attacking people/community, and concentrate on the AFD. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 19:56, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete: Simply an attack page. Wikipedia is a not about personal POV. If this kind of page is created stating

Hindustan Murdabad is a Pakistani slogan most commonly used while referring to Anti-India sentiment. It translates to "Death to India".

how would the people who have placed a keep tag like?
Though Hindustan Murdabad is not a slogan commonly or famously used in Pakistan. The slogans used in Pakistan are much worse, for which, if a page is created, may make Wikipedia an abusepedia.
Strong delete recommended.
--Inlandmamba _{(talk to me)} 18:30, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Precisely. You have reinforced what I've been trying to say all along but couldn't express any clearer :p Mar4d (talk) 18:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why I have to remind again and again that Wikipedia is not censored. If you think that those slogans are notable, you are most welcome to add them here. Please be on the topic and don't try to make this AfD off-topic. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 08:44, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete: As the nomination says, this is pure WP:ATTACK and WP:BATTLEGROUND. If this slogan is acceptable for Wikipedia, then there are literally hundreds of other such Anti-national sentiments that should be here as well. These pages would serve no other purpose then to spread hate speech and provoke conflict which is evident by the votes here instead. Most in support of the article are Indians and most who want it deleted are from Pakistan. Also, this page shows clear signs of Original Research as the facts presented can easily be disputed and provides no real value to the readers. UzEE 22:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain how is this WP:ATTACK? Also I really can't understand your statement that the facts are disputed. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 15:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Article is just a list of occurrences of people using a fairly common phrase and thus borders on being WP:OR. Any content from this page that is worth keeping can be merged in with Anti-Pakistan sentiment. CodeTheorist (talk) 22:37, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain how doe this article meets WP:OR. It also has information on the etymology and the origin. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 06:48, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article gives the etymology of the phrase, but WP is not a dictionary (WP:NOTDIC) and such things are better added to Wiktionary. The phrase has been used a number of times according to the references in the article, but mere common usage of a phrase doesn't mean that it is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, so the references are all irrelevant (even if they are reliable sources). In fact most of the references only mention the phrase in passing. The only references that would make the term notable and worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia would be reliable sources that considered the socio-political and historical importance of the phrase. The article as it stands is trying to make the case that the phrase is important and worthy of notice, when it should instead be referencing a scholarly article that makes that case. That is why it is original research. CodeTheorist (talk) 17:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per CodeTheorist. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:41, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article is messy, confused and poorly laid out. The article starts with this introduction,

“ Pakistan Murdabad is a Hindustani slogan most commonly used while referring to Anti-Pakistan sentiment. It translates to "Death to Pakistan"." Under the heading, Etymology, the title of the article has been defined as “The slogan is the use of typical Urdu and Persian suffix Murdabad.

The first reference in both introduction and first heading is same and based on a commentary of a short story, “Toba Tek Singh” written by Sadat Hasan Munto, published in Urdu language . The plot of the story is about a lunatic asylum at the time of Partition of India and Pakistan in 1947, and the writer was a master of Urdu literature and Pakistani. The suffix ‘Murdabad’ was used at random in the story. This reference does not imply that the slogan is most commonly used.

The second reference is based on a book about the events at the time of Partition of India. In this reference, the word was also used at random. It reads as follows

“certain boys, who rashly chanted Pakistan Zindabad, (Longlive Pakistan!), instead of Pakistan Murdabad (Down with Pakistan), were arrested.” (“British documents on foreign affairs: reports and papers from the Foreign Office confidential print. From 1946 through 1950. Asia, Volume 9).

The reader may judge for himself that how this reference states that the slogan is most commonly used. It is clear from these references that the slogan underlines the missing notability and that the article is therefore some sort of poor google research and original research to close this gap, therefore fails to fulfill WP notability criterion. Regards Averroist (talk) 15:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Per Fut.Perf, this slogan is an expression of Anti-Pakistan sentiment, and should be included in that article, rather than have its own. There are many permutations of this phrase like Death to America, which do not have their own articles. There are not enough sources which speak about the use of the term and why it is unique, rather than note its use in passing, to convince me that this phrase has independent notability. Shrigley (talk) 17:10, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Merge: Nothing more than Anti-Pakistan sentiment. Only used in the sub-continent and not notable in the rest of the world. Samar (Talk . Contributions) 17:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Besides an attack article (as I stated in my above comments), it also violates WP:DIGNITY. And some of the similar articles I found here on Wikipedia are only kept as redirects to respective Anti- sentiment articles. An example is Death to Israel, which was speedy deleted as an attack page and later redirected to Anti-Zionism page. --SMS ^Talk 17:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete: per NPOV,and civility applies not only on editors but should be on articles too.Justice007 (talk) 05:43, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep I see nothing attacking in the article whatsoever.Evey bit of information from the article is clearly sourced..so I see no reason for deletion. ≫TheStrike Σagle≪ 08:47, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep see no reason to delete, it satisfies WP:GNG, but at the same time it is heavily opinionated. The argument this should be kept because x article exists is not valid here. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 05:20, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I don't see any attack. Meets WP:GNG, well sourced and totally makes sense. -- ɑηsuмaη ^{ʈ ᶏ ɭ Ϟ} 08:28, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong delete Per WP:OR and WP:SYNTH, trivial, bordering on original research & attack. Going by this way, we could be having justification for creating many articles with sources abundantly present for "death to each country". There is no valid reason to keep this as a separate page. So if it is to be kept, its best merged with Anti-Pakistan sentiments. September88 (talk) 16:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Neutral~~It is absolutely true that this page has turned into a virtual battleground administrators from neutral side should act immediately. Although, i am concerned if the title of the article becomes a Section of the article Anti-Pakistan sentiment it would be fine as it seems that the chant has few sources. Wikipedia has always been modified on the principal of neutrality. Thank You Very Much --Dr.pragmatist (talk) 02:06, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete: definitely an attack page and in the very least a retaliatory page by Vibhijain who talks of hounding and ironically himself first created the page Hindustan Zindabad right after I created the page Pakistan Zindabad and now this one. This also makes Vibhijain's hounding allegations ironic because he's the one hounding me in this case (and this after I pointed out to him a pattern of 5 different unrelated edits which atleast looked like hounding even then). Further to analyze the contents of this page, they are from sources that give only passing mentions to the subject and has been presented as a synthesis. In addition to this we have a general consensus from the previous redirects and "death to" pages that either do not exist or redirect to anti-country/race sentiment articles. Due to the nature and circumstances of creation I would strongly support a delete without redirecting. --lTopGunl (talk) 11:22, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another piece of baseless allegations. This AfD was only a piece of hounding, and now you are accusing me of hounding. Funny, isn't it? Talk about the article. And if you are saying that this fails the notability guideline, then the same also applies to Pakistan Zindabad. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 11:26, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My allegations are not baseless, there's hard evidence for them. The closing administrator is free to check that you created these two articles shortly after my creation and should act to stop this WP:BATTLE as requested by multiple users. The second part of your comment is based on WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS... that article is notable for multiple reasons including being a battle cry unlike this one. --lTopGunl (talk) 12:36, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know how hard your evidences are. Talk about the article. Blindly citing WP:ATTACK will do nothing in favour of you. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 12:39, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is that why only the Indian editors are supporting to keep this article? --lTopGunl (talk) 14:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Wikipedia is not censored. WP:AfD is not the place to resolve edit disputes. Sourav Mohanty (talk) 09:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is not about censorship.. nor about an edit dispute.. it's about the existence of such an article. --lTopGunl (talk) 14:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No policy says that if there are no counterparts, then the article can't be created. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 15:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That was not my comment here... anyway, that raises further questions... if counter parts are created, would you still be supporting a "keep" there? The first consideration is that the article is WP:BATTLE based and not notable enough on it's own either. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I will again repeat my words, if this article is not notable, Pakistan Zindabad is not a different case. Also if the counterpart is in the same case like this one, respecting content policies, I will most probably vote for keep. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 15:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well you don't need to repeat and I've already replied to that.. it'll just make it more lengthy for the closer. I have my doubts about a keep !vote on a counter part though from the fact that only Indian editors want this article kept and any neutral / uninvolved editors have made the case to delete this. The point I was making was this is not about censorship so no point in saying "not censored" here. --lTopGunl (talk) 15:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on edits, not on editors. Despite being warned on this page only, you are continuously attacking editors on the basis on their nationality. Are you tempting to get your 11th block, I sincerely hope not. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 15:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My comment was on the statistics of this discussion, not on any particular editor. And it is a valid point that if only Indian editors are supporting something in contrast with a variety of editors, there is NPOV issue too. And do not try to inflame me again. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No one is interested in "inflaming" you, but accusing a group of editors just because they share a trait in real life is a serious concern. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 16:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Accusing of what? ...now that you've made my point about sharing a "trait" (which is exactly what I was saying... the POV), I'll rest my case. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Trait=Feature; and that feature is the nationality. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 16:47, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying.. nationality and it's POV was exactly what I meant. --lTopGunl (talk) 16:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would hope a similar comment by you when someone will comment about Pakistani editors. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 16:57, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and Merge Definitely not falls under an attack, it is democracy of Wikipedians, subject of article has a clear existence. Therefore cannot be deleted. Thank you very much. --Dr.pragmatist (talk) 18:01, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ITEXISTS is not a good arguement. --lTopGunl (talk) 18:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Marko Dmitrović[edit]

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Footballer who fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Oleola (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, he plays for one of the teams in Serbia's professional football league. The article does need expanding. I've put a stub tag on the article. The only source seems to be in Serbian, would anyone who knows Serbian put some more information on the wiki? Thanks. Regards, RomeEonBmbo 14:36, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - He's signed to that club, but if the information on the article is correct, then he hasn't actually played a senior game. As such, he doesn't satisfy WP:NFOOTY. KTC (talk) 14:55, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - appears to fail both WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Giant Snowman 19:15, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - as I stated in my proposed deletion of this article, he fails WP:GNG and has not played in a fully pro league. Sir Sputnik (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Mattythewhite (talk) 02:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete for now. According to the source, he has zero appearances for Red Star Belgrade. Once he does, he should pass WP:NFOOTBALL. --Artene50 (talk) 04:21, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails both WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG.Simione001 (talk) 06:33, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 08:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yet Another Language To Learn[edit]

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Unreferenced, and there do not seem to be any references available. Google search turns up nothing relevant. Dtm1234 (talk) 13:42, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. This appears to be WP:MADEUP. The article lacks any sources, much less reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by WP:GNG. Googling turned up nothing useful; most of the hits were more-or-less random occurrences of the phrase in contexts having nothing to do with software. Msnicki (talk) 16:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This exposition on a potential disadvantage of DSLs is largely original research, and assigning the (normal) phrase "yet another language to learn" specifically to to the phenomenon of participants having to learn yet another language when a DSL unknown to them is introduced, is a clear-cut instance of using Wikipedia in an attempt to launch a neologism. Content-wise, this is already adequately covered at Domain-specific language#Advantages and disadvantages, but we should not redirect this quite general phrase to that rather specific issue, so: delete. --Lambiam 17:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with the above. Looks like an attempt to create a phrase, with zero evidence provided that the phrase is in common use.--SPhilbrick (Talk) 13:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update I heard the term last time at the Jazoon 2012 (http://jazoon.com/2012/) during the "Syntactic Salt and Sugar" presentation (http://jazoon.com/Conference/Presentation/Day/2012-06-27/Autor/James-F-Gould-Alex-Holmes_318) given by James F. Gould and Alex Holmes. I was surprised myself that the term doesn't show up anywhere on Google because it's a common complaint when discussing DSLs and their use in software development. I'll try to contact James and Alex to see whether they are the source for the term or whether they have some sources. Digulla (talk) 21:48, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update In the mail, I asked: "Did you or Alex coin the term? If not, where did you hear it?" The reply from James Gould: "No, we coined it." What's the next step? Digulla (talk) 21:58, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The next step would be to find some reliable independent secondary sources that have taken note of the term. Lacking that, we can't establish notability, I'm afraid. Msnicki (talk) 22:08, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy deleted. WP:CSD#G4: The content is substantially the same as that of the article deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fire Lord Ozai (Avatar: The Last Airbender) Sandstein 20:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ozai[edit]

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All plot summary. The sole out-of-universe information is already in other articles. — Parent5446 ☯ ^{(msg email)} 13:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Sources can be use in any articles no matter how much it is used. Ozai is the main villian of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Light2Shadow (talk) 01:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The character is a minor character in the series, only appearing in a few select episodes and being listed as a non-primary casting in the show. Furthermore, there exists no context for the character outside of the show. — Parent5446 ☯ ^{(msg email)} 21:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Merge - Wow I have a bad long term memory. I already nominated this article for deletion last year (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fire Lord Ozai (Avatar: The Last Airbender)) and it was closed as delete, with this page being redirected to the main article. Seeing as nothing has changed... — Parent5446 ☯ ^{(msg email)} 21:10, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 07:54, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Vyacheslav Osnovin[edit]

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Not notable per WP:NHOCKEY Львівське (говорити) 13:13, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. -DJSasso (talk) 14:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete can be re-created if he ever reaches NHOCKEY. Patken4 (talk) 20:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per previous user's comments, if Osnovin reaches the standard in WP:NHOCKEY (or becomes notable in another way, such as significant coverage) article can be recreated. Also if article is deleted, can information be provided to author re WP:N and WP:NHOCKEY so that we can avoid another creation and deletion? Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 06:51, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Nomination withdrawn. Nouniquenames (talk) 14:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Theatre Is Evil[edit]

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Does not meet WP:NALBUMS Nouniquenames (talk) 12:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - I've added a bunch more refs, including The Independent and The Economist, which should satisfy WP:GNG. Interplanet Janet (talk) 21:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Already enough written about it for it to be wiki-notable.--Michig (talk) 09:01, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Article seems fixed. I will withdraw my nomination. --Nouniquenames (talk) 14:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Central Eagle Aviation[edit]

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Does not meet WP:GNG, no significant coverage YSSYguy (talk) 11:24, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nine sources are given in the article, reproduced here in the same order: [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27], [28] and [29]. Of these the last is the company's website and can be discounted. Of the remaining eight, the sixth is a PDF version of the fourth and the seventh is a PDF version of the fifth, while the eighth is an advertisement; so these three can be discounted. The first five sources do not contain significant coverage of the company. The first has only a passing mention of the company's owner and does not mention the company at all. The second is similar except the company name is included. The third is about Lake Eyre tourism and has only passing mentions of the company. The fourth is an article about the company's owner and again only has passing mentions of the company itself. The fifth has a bit more detail but is only a local paper and does not constitute "widespread coverage" on its own. YSSYguy (talk) 12:07, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, for the sources from The Weekly Times (your nos. ~~5 & 6~~ 3 & 4) I would say that the airline has more than a passing mention. However, it is also not a particularly detailed mention, so I agree that notability is a bit lacking. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 12:35, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Weak delete. These sources[30][31][32][33] in the article show a level of local notability, but we usually require more than local notability to have an article on a company, per WP:CORPDEPTH. The Weekly Times is a bit of an odd case, though - it is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Limited and based in Melbourne, but targets rural communities and farmers. I don't think this is quite enough to prove notability, and I would prefer to see one decent national general-interest source before recommending the article be kept; however, I am open to persuasion if others think differently. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 12:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - In reading all the refs it looks like there is enough notability for a biography on Louise Oldfield, the owner, but the company only gets passing mentions and so fails WP:CORP. - Ahunt (talk) 23:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Notability not established. - Shiftchange (talk) 07:17, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn with no outstanding delete votes. (non-admin closure) • Gene93k (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Olaus Andreas Grøndahl[edit]

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While this person clearly existed and is covered briefly in the source added, along with a few images available, there is no assertion of notability. Due to the non-English nature of the subject, finding sources can be difficult, but I do not believe the sources are in a depth for this subject to satisfy WP:GNG or WP:MUSBIO. I am willing to be convinced otherwise. KTC (talk) 08:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn. KTC (talk) 12:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Grøndahl was active in the 19th + in the first decades of the 20th century, so the absence of online coverage is not surprising. The entry in the Store norske leksikon is a good indication of notability, but I agree that the article needs the attention of Norwegian-speaking editors (or people familiar with local culture/music history). --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 09:30, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think we generally take inclusion in another encyclopedia, such as Store norske leksikon, as an indication of notability. It would be good to know if he's in New Grove, or any other music dictionaries. As you say, online coverage is sparse. His wife and son seem to be notable, and he commissioned children's songs from Grieg... I'm veering towards a weak keep. --Deskford (talk) 09:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I think it is better to include and keep this kind of historical information, even in cases when the coverage is weak. I've added another source and additional facts. Another option could be redirecting and adding a brief mention of him to the article Agathe Backer-Grøndahl. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 10:42, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Apart from the entry in Store norske leksikon (which I consider suffient evidence of notability on its own), he has an entry in The Macmillan Encyclopedia of Music and Musicians. The snippet quote available from Googgle Books states:

"Grondahl, Olaus Andreas, Norwegian conductor, singing teacher and composer, born Christiania, Nov. 6, 1847; pupil of Leipzig Conservatory and of Lindhult; teacher at the University of Christiania. He founded the Grondahl's Choir in ..."

He also has an entry in The International Cyclopedia of Music and Musicians (Dodd, Mead and Company. [34]. - Voceditenore (talk) 11:04, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep Aside from the Norwegian Dictionary of Biography entry which might incline one to think he might be notable, a google book search should have confirmed he was notable.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:37, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
An entry in an encyclopaedia is in itself an indication that he has been considered notable by people who probably knew what they were doing. In any case, it seems that his wife, pianist and composer Agathe Backer Grøndahl is regarded as more notable today, as she has an article in the most current edition of Norsk biografisk leksikon, while that article refers to the 1st edition of NBL for an article about her husband (but, in other words, he was considered important enough at the time for an article to be included). There is also this 165-page double biography of the couple. --Hegvald (talk) 11:42, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per recent additions to the article. Coverage in other encyclopedias is enough. --Deskford (talk) 11:51, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 22:51, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Daniel Milstein[edit]

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Non-notable person. Claim that his company was on the Inc. magazine list of top 500 companies is cited to an interview given my Milstein, but cannot be verified by a search of Inc.'s site. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 17:48, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Weak keep on notability but needs some cleanup. His is in the Detroit Business Journal as being recognized on the "30 in their Thirties" list HERE and also an author (I did not weigh how notable the book is) which can be viewed HERE. The claim about the Inc. Magazine would not matter if it was listed on the company of the website as he is the founder and CEO of the company (which means he can self-publish anything so his interview would be as credible as the website stating such - a link to the actual recognition would be nice which I have been unable to locate as of yet).
Weak Keep The article does need some major improvement, but I think his notability is established... Barely. Rotorcowboy ^talk
_contribs 18:43, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:21, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - local 30 in their 30s recognition does not rise to a level of notability for a global encyclopedia. Claims about success or lack thereof of the company have nothing to do with whether he should have his own article. Arguments that he can self-publish anything he wants as CEO and we'd have to accept it as credible shows a fundamental lack of understanding about how Wikipedia works. DreamGuy (talk) 00:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep as two of the sources in the article are from apparently notable publications and thus this limps across the verifiability and notability thresholds. I have performed some cleanup but expansion and better sourcing would improve my !vote from "weak" to a full keep. - Dravecky (talk) 06:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:ANYBIO and WP:AUTHOR - First off, interviews are primary sources (review WP:SOURCES) but these two interviews don't even meet significant coverage considering one is from the Homes section of a local online newspaper and the other is a trade magazine for realtors.--Joshuaism (talk) 20:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep - I can't imagine many readers flocking to this page for useful information about this guy, and there doesn't seem to be any information here that a quick Google search of his name doesn't reveal, so the usefulness of having an article dedicated to him seems questionable. On the other hand, as a published author and CEO of a probably notable company, he is likely to do more notable things through the course of his career which should be added here. Plus, it's not like Wikipedia is running out of room or something, right? If some more experienced AfD voter can explain why that's not the right way to rationalize a keep, I'd certainly consider changing my vote. Zujua (talk) 08:30, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:27, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Barry Smitherman[edit]

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promotional & propagandistic article for minor public orfficial DGG ( talk ) 07:11, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete - per DGG's nomination, nothing to add. ukexpat (talk) 13:39, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Doesn't appear to meet WP:POLITICIAN, the gentlemen seems of purely local interest, and I agree with the nominator that this seems intended as promotional material. Ubelowme (talk) 14:59, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:POLITICIAN. Incidentally, it appears to me that the article's creator, User:Chrismg956, has an editing history similar to that of sock User:Billy Hathorn who created the articles of other TRC members, David J. Porter and Victor G. Carrillo. Location (talk) 15:44, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I am uncertain why everyone here has assumed that he failsWP:POLITICIAN; it appears to me that he passes. No doubt the current draft of the article is promotional and needs some NPOV treatment, but he holds a statewide elective office and Texas Railroad Commission (which, as y'all know, of course, regulates oil and gas, not railroads) is "historically one of the most important regulatory bodies in the nation" and still "an important actor on the national energy stage".[35] There's also actual coverage (275 hits on HighBeam), including not only coverage of his activities on the Railroad Commssion but also about public controversy over how he got fired from his high-level Bank One job for writing an op-ed piece that his bosses didn't like[36][37], coverage of his days running the Texas PUC[38][39], and some sources about his role in a protest of "aggressive" TSA patdown practices[40][41][42] --Arxiloxos (talk) 01:31, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article Smitherman was appointed to the commission, not elected, and according to the first source he was elected chairman by the members of the commission, i.e. an electorate of himself and two others. This all suggests that he is a bureaucrat rather than a politician. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's an elected, statewide position; he was appointed because there was a vacancy, and he is right now running for election to fill the spot for the rest of the current term. (He got 46% of the vote in the first round, and is now in an upcoming runoff against the second-place candidate.)[43][44]) This is an important elected position in Texas government.[45] He also passes WP:GNG: I've added a number of sources to the article, as well as getting rid of the promotional text. --Arxiloxos (talk) 22:31, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:46, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This position is analogous to a judgeship, and bodies such as the Texas Railroad Commission are sometimes referred to as quasi-judicial tribunals. Judges are usually notable. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 01:22, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would accept this for the head of the commission; otherwise, I do not regard quasi-judicial to = judicial. Is every member of every statewide regulatory agency notable? DGG ( talk ) 23:31, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:39, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete without prejudice to recreation - created by block-evading sock confirmed by CU. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- This article has been substantially edited by other editors (see [46] for changes since the last edit by the original creator) so I don't believe WP:CSD#G5 applies. --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep - as noted by Arxiloxos, this is a statewide elective office. WP:POLITICIAN clearly states a person holding a statewide office is notable. In addition, the Texas Railroad Commission regulates oil and gas production in Texas, and the chairman of the RRC, whether elected or not, would be notable under WP:GNG. The RRC is one of the most powerful commissions in state government in Texas and is extremely influential in national energy politics. There are plenty of refs listed, plus many more available, including refs from before he became a member of the RRC. If promotional, clean it up. GregJackP Boomer! 22:22, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Not an easy close, obviously, but (similar to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashton Kutcher on Twitter) the stronger arguments are with the "delete" opinions. Once someone or something gets sufficiently notable (like Justin Bieber), many subaspects, minutiae and trivia of his work or life get excessive attention, mainly from the more popular and less reliable media (tabloids and the like), but also from more serious, reliable sources. While the latter do more to establish notability, the fact remains that this moves into WP:NOTDIARY territory, and WP:IINFO (and verges on WP:COATRACK as "This article is about both Bieber as a topic on Twitter and Bieber's use of Twitter.", mixing two related but separate topics, including things like how Charlie Sheen made an error when he wanted to post something to Justin Bieber). Note that obviously a short section on Twitter (and similar social media) in the Justin Bieber article is perfectly appropriate. Fram (talk) 08:37, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Justin Bieber on Twitter[edit]

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This is not a notable topic. Notability is not inherited and twitter accounts like youtube videos or email address or stretch of highway or sites with many visitors simply do not carry on the notability of the artwork, city, highway, or person they are associated with. All the sources are about Justin Bieber not about his account itself, this could be merged into one sentence in his article and this article deleted as it is not notable at all. LuciferWildCat (talk) 07:24, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment AfD procedures require that The article's creator or other significant contributors should ideally be left a message at their talk page(s). This was not done, and I regard it as very poor form. Hawkeye7 (talk) 02:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Kudos to Laura Hale for dropping me a line: she didn't have to do that, and I appreciate her fairness. Hawkeye, it's a gutsy nomination, but I agree that Luciferwildcat should have notified lots of people here--unless, of course, they didn't understand how contentious this is (which would really surprise me). Anyway, that's not a reason, of course, to squash this. Drmies (talk) 22:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep Not all the sources are about the Twitter account. Some are about how ("random comments") or how often it is used ("Twitter addict"). Most are about what was written in it. For the sake of the normal use of modern English, I cannot really support taking Justin Bieber's name out of this article completely, but if one did so, it would still have import. This article is, at 70K, bigger than the Justin Bieber article at 62K. A merge is out of the question. Anarchangel (talk) 08:33, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not uncommon for famous people to have articles that are well over 150KB large. It's natural to have bios on popular people to have larger articles than those that are not. Personally, I would think the Justin Bieber article would have more stuff in it, just as I would expect with Lady Gaga or even Rihanna. --MuZemike 18:59, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let me rephrase that. WP:SPLIT and WP:SPINOUT. Anarchangel (talk) 23:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It's been rated a good article. Sourced, notable per press coverage, and the article is about the twitter account not just Bieber, despite what the proposer says. I know a lot of people hate Bieber and Twitter and think Wikipedia should only cover high-minded topics like Latin poetry, dead presidents, and Star Trek, but reflecting the decline of human civilisation to the level of bum-scratching apes is not a valid reason for deletion. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- You could have fooled me that people think that those are our topic foci. Our articles on Latin mnemonics (AfD discussion), Handedness of Presidents of the United States (AfD discussion), and Pon farr (AfD discussion) have all been nominated for deletion. Argument from beauty (AfD discussion) was nominated for deletion, twice, and that's had eight centuries of scholarly analysis from Summa Theologica onwards, some of it in Latin. This whole idea that Wikipedians want to focus upon high-minded topics is just nonsense, and unsupported rhetoric that other Wikipedians use in arguments like this. The reality is a lot more complex. Uncle G (talk) 09:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment' We can't just keep articles related to celebrities that are often "hated on" that is an invalid argument and public figures are all widely beloved and despised. The merits of this article are insufficient for an article independent of the Justin Bieber article and the Celebrity use of Twitter article where this minor content belongs, and is more appropriate.LuciferWildCat (talk) 14:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep : The article has many reliable sources, very specifically the claims in national newspapers that he is the second most popular celebrity Twitter user (presumably in the world?), which counts as notable in my book. My personal opinion, however, can be summed up quite nicely with this - oh how I wish WP:IDONTLIKEIT was a valid argument to use for AfD at times like these. --Ritchie333 (talk) 10:15, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- - Comment so your own rationate is that Justin Bieber is the second most popular celebrity on Twitter and that should be covered on the article for Justin Bieber, you have said nothing of the account itself!LuciferWildCat (talk) 18:36, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I don't hate Justin Bieber he's very sexy actually and Twitter is something I use and love daily, nevertheless when you say in the defense of this article, "he is the second most popular celebrity Twitter" you are talking about Justin Bieber and not the account, this content should be merged into the Bieber article and summarized, it is not notable on its own weight and has a place on that article, notability is just not inherited. LuciferWildCat (talk) 14:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - - - Comment: 3% of the servers does not have to do with the specific account. The marketing aspects of it do not have to do with Bieber. There are a number of non-Bieber marketing sources talking about it. The academic sources talking about how his account were a central node of discussion around the Arab spring are not about Bieber, but the fans talking retweeting and commenting on content around it. --LauraHale (talk) 23:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Weak Keep~~ This does not meet the same level of quality and in-depth focus of Ashton Kutcher's Twitter activity, but it does appear that his activity on Twitter gets unique and independent coverage that goes beyond mere detailing of what he's tweeting about.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Upon further inquiry I am convinced this is more than suitable for an independent article. --The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete on principle. Really? The unfiltered musings of a teenage singer have their own page in an encyclopedia? Sometimes its best to ignore the rules lawyering, go for common sense, and just delete this fantarding nonsense. Hekerui (talk) 21:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Bieber, like most major public figures, has a notable impact on culture and society. How his activity on a major social networking service such as Twitter has enabled him to amplify that impact seems to me a matter "worthy of notice" and we have the sources to demonstrate as much. Maybe you fail to see the encyclopedic purpose of detailing how a specific person has influenced the use of a service or influenced society through said service, but I think there is a more-than-reasonable argument to be made that an article on a pop culture icon's social networking activities can and does serve as an informative insight into our fast-moving inter-connected culture in the Age of the Internet. Should you have issues with wording there is a way to address that.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Nicely put, Hekerui. I see the "rules" being thrown about all these discussions--it's sourced, people yak about it, etc. Drmies (talk) 16:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as fancruft. This sets a sort of precedent for other silly, pop-culture articles; if we can keep this, why not create things about various other artists or (heaven forbid!) an artist outside the English-speaking world. The article may have reliable sources, but those sources are worthless if the topic is not notable. It has admittedly received significant coverage in reliable sources, but any out-of-the-ordinary remark a celebrity makes on Twitter will receive some coverage. I, like Ritchie333, wish that IDON'TLIKEIT were valid at this point. Interchangeable 23:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: As I understand fancruft being something other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT, the article would be of extremely limited interest over a relatively obscure topic where there was limited sourcing. FuseTV mentioned the article on Twitter. The sources include ones in several languages including Romanian, Turkish and Italian. They also represent sources from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and India. Justin Bieber has 25 million followers, more than the population of Australia. There are over 100 different sources including academic works, newspapers, popular culture works. I'm trying to understand what you are defining as fancruft here. Can you provide additional details? And if the article has that many reliable sources that would in most cases far exceed those required for notability elsewhere, then what is going on? The article goes beyond what Bieber's random blatherings on Twitter are. Please elaborate more? If necessary, I can work to improve the article to add any of the 3,000+ available WP:RS sources that do more than just mention random tweets Bieber made. --LauraHale (talk) 11:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as fancruft, ie, WP:FART.PumpkinSky talk 23:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as fancruft; let Wikia have it, though.
Note, this has been listed at Wikipedia:Featured Article Candidates for Deletion. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 23:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Article is reliably sourced. Article topic easily passes WP:GNG. Article cannot be merged back into Justin Bieber as there was no consensus at a merge proposal to do so. Not seeing the evidence of fancruft in the article. Would like example text from the article that suggests there is a neutrality problem with the article making it fancruft. --LauraHale (talk) 23:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)Article nomination was out of process. Nominator did not inform major contributors to the article. Article is reliably sourced. Article topic easily passes WP:GNG. Article cannot be merged back into Justin Bieber as there was no consensus at a merge proposal to do so. Article passes Wikipedia:Notability (web) easily and passes Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), where Bieber's Tweeting is treated like a brand. (which sources suggest as per the article as true) Article contains much non-trivial information. Article is neutral. Article use of sources spanning close to five years means it has sustained coverage, which follows the rules. It has been subject to MULTIPLE academic articles. Coverage is non-trivial given the article's focus and the length of time and the number of people and tweets involved. Article passed WP:GA, which includes things like comprehensiveness of topic and reliability of sourcing as criteria. --LauraHale (talk) 13:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If the article is deleted you certainly can insert information from this article to other articles where that information is relevant. --Bensin (talk) 03:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure where. It certainly cannot go into Justin Bieber as the merge proposal suggested this topic had enough WP:RS and length that couldn't be easily summarised down to do that adequately. If you want to show what a multiple article merge would look like, please have at it. --LauraHale (talk) 13:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are interpreting the result of that vote too literally. And if circumstances change, like if this article was to be deleted, people might look differently on the merge proposal. Regardless: any information deemed relevant to other articles can be inserted there. --Bensin (talk) 02:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Here are some examples of the very much not fantard reasons for keeping this article: [47] [48] [49] [50] [51]. Obviously the significance of Bieber's presence on Twitter is far greater than just any random pop culture icon's presence on any random social network. Stop with the pop-hate and try to consider that it may actually be as notable an aspect of the singer as his actual musical productions.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article is reliably sourced. Passes WP:GNG with substantial coverage in mainstream sources. Refers to something involving millions of people and millions of dollars. "Delete as cruft" falls under WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep, good articles are inherently article worthy. All you have to do is read the lead to see how this is notable. 117Avenue (talk) 04:29, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think poorly of Beiber, and even more poorly of Twitter, but in the cases of Gaga and Beiber only, I think that the race for #1 is significant enough to warrant a keep. For all other celebs, social media activity should be part of the main article. I caution the forces behind the creation of this article on that they have raised significant backlash here, and that they likely won't see nearly as many keep votes if they make ...on Twitter articles for others, or make Justin Beiber on .... articles for other platforms. Sven Manguard Wha? 14:19, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- - Comment: For the record, I did not create any ones other than Bieber and Gaga. I think the notability is dubious at best outside these two. (Kutcher may be a special case.) I have zero intention of creating any more because I saw the rough road at WP:DYK to get it through and knew anything else would face continued WP:BATTLEGROUND so wouldn't be worth it.--LauraHale (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, reliably sourced, passes WP:GNG and per Sven. ⇒T A P 15:04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I am not going to !vote in this AfD, but the deletion discussion should focus on whether or not this article is appropriately within Wikipedia's scope and policies. The fact that it was listed as a GA or is currently at FAC should be irrelevant; it is certainly possible to write a high-quality article that does not fall under Wikipedia scope or standards. --MuZemike 18:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as WP:NOTTRIVIA (specifically item #3 of WP:INDISCRIMINATE). I do appreciate the hard work editors put into this; but: While this is a well written article and would make a fine addition to Bieberpedia (yes, that really does exist), I think the subject matter fails as a stand-alone article from a historical and encyclopedic view. There are possibly parts which could be merged into either the Bieber article or the Twitter article from a Pop culture standpoint, but if we start down this path with Bieber, and Lady GaGa, and, and, and ... (Does Charlie Sheen have one yet?) ... where do we draw the line. WP:V of WP:RS should be a goal of all articles indeed, but they should not be the "be-all-end-all" for inclusion IMHO. Chedzilla (talk) 19:12, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- - - Comment: Attempts were made to merge it into Justin Bieber. If you read Talk:Justin_Bieber#Merger_proposal, you'll see the discussion was basically WP:UNDUE, too long and the topic was independently notable preventing a merge. No consensus to do that. What has changed for YOU since the merge proposal? How would you integrate it in to other articles? How is the article indiscriminate? Examples please? --LauraHale (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Since closing administrators should be impartial, I suggest that this discussion be closed by an administrator from outside the English-speaking world, who has not heard of Bieber. Inter change able 20:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He's popular internationally. The only way to get such a truly impartial administrator is if said closing admin was an alien. --MuZemike 20:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, "Wikipedia articles are not: A complete exposition of all possible details. Rather, an article is a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". Statements like "Most fans respond favorably when he retweets their messages" and "Bieber utilizes the tag #RandomTwitterHour in order to let his fans know he is making random comments" are not "knowledge". And they are not "accepted knowledge" by recognized experts. Reading an encyclopedia article should not result in filling your head with nothings and banalities. Reading an encyclopedia article should enrich your mind in some way, and not be an utter waste of your time. You should know more after you have read an encyclopedia article. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:50, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The author of the article is a recognized expert on social media and marketing. The sources reference accepted experts. What we should do is get rid of all those worthless articles on motorcycles. Talk about banalities. Delete all of that rubbish per WP:NOTEVERYTHING Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WTF? Stop lying. Recognized expert on social media and marketing? Some of us here built a successful career on that, unlike the person you are talking about. Arcandam (talk) 09:34, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- - Sometimes "cruft" is a code word for "I don't like it". Sometimes cruft is in fact cruft. Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not is a real policy, not just one guy's peeves. It is actually a fact that Wikipedia is not about everything and it is actually a policy to delete indiscriminate collections of trivia. The truth is, some people just don't like the fact that Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not is a real policy and that it's really enforced. So every time they trot out the same knee-jerk defenses: my trivia is just as good as X. Not so, and not policy. (And I say "Welcome aboard!" all editors who will join me in working to delete the hundreds of motorcycling articles that fail WP:N. I can't do it all myself.) --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - It appears that agree on a great deal; but not on interpretation of the value of the Marketing implications of the quoted snippets. It is one thing to be able to advertise to millions of people via a broadcast medium; but it is much more valuable when the recipients are likely to respond with a purchase. Targeting demographics is an obvious form of cost effectiveness in advertising. Fans being pleased to be retweeted builds brand loyalty. Consumer satisfaction is not a matter of opinion; it is worth too much money to be left to that. It has to be carefully surveyed, measured and verified. Social Media has an advantage over other, more traditional, forms of media in that the data comes first; we do not need satisfaction survey, but can immediately take the tweets and analyse them to see if the responses are positive or negative. The message can then be managed in real time. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians would be a good place for such analysis of social media. Bieber didn't invent this social trend; he was carried along by it. Fans being pleased at being retweeted is a tautology. The story here is not anything Bieber did, it's Twitter fandom and Twitter public relations. Bieber is engaging in run of the mill behavior for any major celebrity today, and his tweets and how his fans feel about his tweets are banalities that miss the forest for the trees. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        Case studies are commonly used in Marketing, and sub articles are common on Wikipedia. I doubt if Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians will ever be as good as this article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There are about two paragraphs in this article that are not trivia, the definition of which is "insignificant trifles of little importance, especially items of unimportant information". You can't tell me that even the material in "controversies", relative to the goals of this project, is not trivia. What little non-trivial content the article contains should be in other articles (do I have to name them?). Look at the first sentence of each paragraph. There are only about two that suggest non-trivial information is to follow: the first sentence in the article 'As of March 2012, Justin Bieber's Twitter account (@justinbieber) is the second most popular Twitter account' (say it in his article) and 'The size of Bieber and Lady Gaga's follower bases is cited as a reason why marketers should pay attention to Twitter' (say it in Twitter). This article is full of pointillistic sentences that tell the reader next to nothing. (Start of a paragraph: 'In March 2011 the Bieber topic trended alongside the iPad and Charlie Sheen'. Oh! Start of a paragraph: 'Bieber used the popular Twitter and Facebook photo sharing application Instagram in July 2011'. Oh! Start of a paragraph: 'For some people, including Ashton Kutcher, Twitter was their first introduction to Bieber; eventually, Bieber and Kutcher worked together on pranks.' Oh! Start of a paragraph: 'Actor Charlie Sheen attempted to send a direct message to Bieber, but failed and inadvertently revealed his number to all his Twitter followers in December 2011.' Oh!) Wikipedia is not the home for this material. Sources have been used in good faith to mush together paragraphs of random facts that have little substance or thematic connectedness, and the reason for this is that you're trying to get whatever random source material is available to you to "connect" into a larger article (synthesis). But we don't do that; it's the job of other types of writers. Riggr Mortis (talk) 23:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Wow! There's a first sentence in every paragraph! How "supercallipointillistic"! Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. THIS is indeed something that is not needed on Wikipedia. I'm fairly certain people can find a decent plethora of information about him in the article titled Justin Bieber... Octavannus-Caelestis 01:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete Why do we need an article on this? Why? Canuck^{89 (have words with me)} 01:45, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

~~Delete~~ Changed to keep on the basis of the revised article; see below. this is not supportable as a separate article, and is an entirely unjustified split. There is no reason why the very small amount of this that is acceptable content in the first place should do go in the main article.If the material was there previously, there would not even be the need to redirect to preserve attribution. The principles are that WP IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA. NOT FANSITE. and NOT TABLOID. I am a very strong supporter of the full coverage of contemporary popular culture in Wikipedia. That does not mean the unlimited coverage of everything a fan can find. Those who truly support such encyclopedic coverage should avoid carrying it to the extent that the non-encyclopedic coverage will make us ridiculous. To address to my earlier comment here s, I think the removal of the junk showed there was a core that did consist of specific material to the extent suitable for an article. The tabloid & fansite material has been removed, DGG ( talk ) 01:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC) DGG ( talk ) 22:35, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Sven. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 03:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as much as I dislike the music of his I've heard and the commerical-pop industry, the article is exceptionally well referenced, relatively few of the references are shared with related articles and there is a huge variety of sources and stories about the twitter feed and his antics on it. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:07, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Yawn. This is getting annoying. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a reason to delete. Get over it people. Statυs (talk) 03:11, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, "yawn", since we've heard WP:ILIKEIT often enough, which is all you have to offer. Drmies (talk) 16:42, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Same as for Ashton Kutcher on Twitter: Slim down, split and merge the parts into articles Justin Bieber, Twitter and Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians. --Bensin (talk) 03:15, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. On its own merits, the article demonstrates its notability through reliable sources. Regarding the nomination, the nominator is correct in that notability is not inherited; the article has demonstrated how the account (and Bieber's use of it) is notable in its own right. Also, other stuff exists, so this article does not set precedent or open the floodgates for articles on the Twiter accounts of all celebrities. I will concede that, in most cases, Twitter accounts shouldn't have articles. However, there is an exception to every rule, and this is an exception to that rule. Remember, not every actor has an article; only notable actors have articles. Likewise, this is notable web content and can be covered. Finally, the fact that this received Good Article status tells me that it's been reviewed; if it didn't measure up, it should've gotten screened out before. —C.Fred (talk) 03:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Is this what I would choose for the encyclopedia? No. However, my prejudices are not a good reason to delete that which receives sufficient independent, RS coverage... which this does. One man's cruft is another man's popular culture. GNG is met, and there's no good policy-based argument for shrinking and merging per UNDUE into the main Bieber article... although that is a pretty classic Wikilawyering way to get rid of content that some people don't like, it's not appropriate. Jclemens (talk) 03:43, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, largely per User:Colapeninsula. I detect more than a slight element of WP:IDONTLIKEIT it the nomination and many of the delete comments here. I don't like it either, but it's notable enough to have an article. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 04:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Keep Trending topics and similar metrics are increasingly being used to track and rank events (I've noticed this on CNN broadcasts for example), for better or worse, and my impression is that Wikipedia's coverage (four paragraphs in a third-level subsection of Twitter which does not even mention news organisations) is far too scanty. This article documents, among other things, part of the evolution of this aspect of Twitter's service and thus of the internet in well-sourced detail which could not be squeezed into another article without swamping it. --Mirokado (talk) 04:15, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. We do not delete featured content arbitrarily. If you manage to delist its GA symbol, we can discuss something. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 05:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not close to being featured and will likely not be, as the FAC does not look good. --MuZemike 00:12, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fancruft. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 05:16, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep articles about fancruft are allowed here, when like this one they are supported by reliable references. This article is already too large to merge back to Justin Bieber article, and Wikipedia grows more useful by having more articles. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 06:26, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete same as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashton Kutcher on Twitter. Does not belong to an encyclopedia.--GoP _T ^C _N 07:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Obviously, this is a WP:GNG notable topic because enough reliable sources cover it. In fact, I found more than 100+ news articles having Bieber & Twitter in the title of the news article alone, an oldest being from 26 November 2009[52] and a latest being 15 June 2012.[53] Clearly, that is unusually strong evidence of separate WP:GNG notability of this subject: Bieber on Twitter: 1. History (@justinbieber), 2. Twitter usage as a communication platform (Technology, marketing and the media), and 3. Reaction (Followers and fans) (I suggest renaming the subsection headings to what I listed). Biber's first uses of Twitter was written about as early as 9 August 2009,[54] and reliable sources have remarked on it since at least 30 July 2009.[55] Beyond being a WP:GNG notable topic, content consensus at the B-rated Justin Bieber article is that Twitter deserves its own subsection in the Justin Bieber article. Justin Bieber on Twitter is a valid Wikipedia:Summary style article of that Justin_Bieber#Twitter subsection. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 08:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I myself am not a Twit, but I recognize that there are an awful lot of Twits out there making lots of noise in the news. The Steve 10:07, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete To repeat my earlier comment, I find it completely unnecessary to have a separate article. If Bieber officially teamed up with Twitter for a specific event or partnership, then that might merit its own entry. As for it being well documented, well you could do that for anything. You could document every instance of Lady Gaga's nail colour and write a lengthy and beautifully sourced article on that, featuring photos and quotes. That wouldn't make it worthy of inclusion. Bieber on Twitter isn't a subject, it's just an aspect of his life. We might just as well have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Bieber_on_the_lavatory Istara (talk) 11:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: one google news source for Lady Gaga and Nail Colur in the article title. This compares to 200+ for Justin Bieber on Twitter. I looked for academic works on Lady Gaga's nail colour and could not find a single reference. Clearly, the topic you cited as notable enough under WP:GNG is not notable. Besides which, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is neither a reason to keep nor delete. Can you provide a more clear explanation? Are you advocating WP:IAR per WP:IDONTLIKEIT to ignore the WP:GNG and WP:RS clearly established based on the content already found in Justin Bieber on Twitter? --LauraHale (talk) 12:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This thing is about as GNG-"notable" and as encyclopedic as Michelle Obama's arms, and should meet the same fate. T. Canens (talk) 13:22, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like WP:ASSERTN- can you expand a bit on your thoughts as to where the notability is lacking, preferably with regard to the reliable sources mentioned? --Ritchie333 (talk) 13:41, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that you can bring in dozens of sources and argue that this thing passes GNG, just as you can bring in dozens of sources and argue that Michelle Obama's arms passes GNG (the deleted article has a whopping 12 sources from major newspapers). We don't have an article for everything that technically passes the GNG, and we should not have one here. T. Canens (talk) 06:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete None of these celebrities-on-Twitter pages are really notable. The fact that there are a good deal of sources here does not make the topic notable in and of itself and this could easily be covered on either the Justin Bieber page or the Twitter page. Toa Nidhiki05 15:15, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, Although its well written and well sourced, it seems pointless and fancruft. Does not belong to an encyclopedia, Wikia should have it however. I means its just...Odd. Ericdeaththe2nd (talk) 15:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2nd[reply]
Delete; a dumping ground for redundant, trivial, or otherwise non-notable gossip that would rightly be removed by any experienced editors from the main article. There's endless policies, guidelines and essays which I can quote from. Policies include: WP:NOT#NEWS, WP:NOTSTATSBOOK, Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Point_of_view_forks, WP:NOTEVERYTHING etc.--Otterathome (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If you google x celebrity and any other social networking platform the results tend to be rather dull and routine details. Were you to google x celebrity and Twitter you tend to find most are dull and routine coverage. A few instances bring up a substantial amount of articles about how x celebrity said something angry or did something stupid on Twitter. However, Bieber is one of those very select few that gets a great deal of independent coverage about him being on Twitter and his effect on Twitter. Bieber's activity on Facebook or any other social media I have checked does not even come close to the attention directed towards his Twitter activity. Of the three celebrity on Twitter articles we have, I think the Gaga one is actually the weakest and the one I would be most likely to vote delete on (though I would probably go for a merge) and I actually like the Gaga.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 16:06, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's all good, but look at the sources typically used, twitter itself as a primary source, guide books about twitter/social media, Mashable, Daily Mail. You remove all the junk food news and unnecessary details, it'll fit into the main article.--Otterathome (talk) 16:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So why, pray tell, are you voting delete? Is Bieber's Twitter account name not an obvious search term? Appears to me there are far too many people voting delete when they mean merge, which would make people voting keep such as myself at least feel like this isn't going to erase the hard work of other editors on a subject that is not covered sufficiently in the suggested target of a merge.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I still don't see a reason how this ought to be a topic separate from Bieber, sourcing, GA, and other statuses notwithstanding. There is plenty of room in that article for a summary of the salient points which, as I've demonstrated earlier, easily fit in a single paragraph. Drmies (talk) 16:58, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as this is quite crufty, tabloid and not particularly encyclopedic. What little that is worth mentioning is surely already in the Justin Bieber article. Forking content this way makes Wikipedia look like "The Fan Site That Anyone Can Edit!" and I just can't see where in policy that this is supported. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 17:40, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The fact is that we do not have a policy that clearly prohibits this type of subject and none of the guidelines appear to forbid it. Obviously, that doesn't mean it should be kept, but it does mean people should stop citing policy as a reason for deleting. Arguments should, instead, be based on whether the subject or something closely resembling the subject is "worthy of notice" to a broader audience. Does Bieber's use of Twitter meet some threshold of significance that goes beyond the routine use by public figures? Has his activity been the cause of unique interest that goes beyond an interest in the general activity of the artist? I believe that the answer to those questions is yes and have noted sources above that lead me to believe that. Thus I think the subject is worthy of an independent article.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:34, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And I respect your opinion, but disagree with it, as this is something I've thought about long before this AFD. WP:NOT is an actual policy and applies here, as others have also noted. We can discuss the minutia of each references, but in the end, it is many things that Wikipedia is not. It might be well written, well sourced and well meaning, but that doesn't exempt it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:09, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep/merge This is obviously a spinoff/split from the main articles about Justin Bieber and Twitter. Both of those articles are big enough (62K, 110K) that it's reasonable to do this for reasons of size. And, if we should want to consolidate this material, our editing policy would be to merge rather than delete so that further editing is not disrupted by the placing of content where only admins can see it. The arguments against the topic seem to be personal expressions of dislike for it and deletion for this reason would be contrary to policies such as WP:NPOV and WP:CENSOR. We have numerous other fine-grained celebrity topics such as Oprah Winfrey's endorsement of Barack Obama, personal relationships of Elvis Presley, reality distortion field, The Beckham Experiment, &c. There is no policy-based reason to discriminate against this one. Warden (talk) 19:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and/or merge per Dennis Brown. It's not inherently an unencyclopedic subject, but the fact it is so badly written and fancrufty indicates it could easily be cut by around 90% without any real loss of content, at which point it could me merged back into the main Justin Bieber article. As regards its GA status, I think there are some problems with that assessment which will need to be addressed in a different venue. --John (talk) 21:26, 1 July 2012 (UTC) See later note. --John (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes and yes, John--on the writing and the review. I've addressed the first at various moments in various discussions but that was nothing but a cry in the desert; I've tried to edit it for improvement but that proved a daunting if not hopeless task given the long enumerations of minutiae, and no other editors or reviewers were willing to assist in that. I have addressed quality issues in this review, for instance, and you'll find that I was just about the only one to edit for style and correctness, and that it got promoted to DYK long before it was finished properly. Moreover, the GA review was done by someone who shouldn't have been reviewing for GA (see this, for instance, and this, plus all my associated edits to the article). I wonder how many of the editors who say "it's a GA so it should stay" (which doesn't mean anything anyway) have actually perused the article and the review. Drmies (talk) 21:57, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Oddly, I find WP:RUBBISH says that article writing quality is not a reason to have the article deleted. Also oddly, WP:ATTP also appears to be an invalid argument for deletion in as much as you appear to be saying the DYK and GA reviewers not meeting your standards are not good enough. While at it, WP:TRIVCOV that people have been citing as a reason also doesn't hold much water because it says "significant coverage that addresses the subject in detail is required" and book references and academic references that are being cited as trivial do not prove significant coverage. I'm still not seeing a policy based reason to delete it. (And it isn't comparable to Michelle Obama's arms given the sources available and the multi year coverage and the clear INDEPENDENT coverage beyond Bieber demonstrated in the article.)--LauraHale (talk) 22:16, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - That's not odd at all, and you'll find also that I didn't argue for deletion because it's rubbish (I don't think it's that bad). What I am countering is the argument that it should stay because it's a GA. You seem to be misreading John's argument: that the article can easily be cut by 90% and then/thus easily merged, an argument I agree with. Drmies (talk) 22:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and gut it, after which a merge may be more reasonable. I've just gone through and copyedited ~~about half the article~~ the entire article dear god, someone kill me now, since it was in dire need, and there is a kernel of useful, notable content here. The trouble is that it's all wrapped up in some pretty incoherent writing, with sentences on the same sub-topic scattered to the four winds throughout the article and a severe lack of the judicious pruning that goes into turning a draft article into a reasonable live article. Each of the sections of this article could, I think, be very easily halved (or more), with no loss of important information, and the result would be a better article that doesn't appear so crufty and, well, laughable to so many readers. If, after a re-drafting and gutting along those lines, it's still long enough or contains enough content for a stand-alone article, great. If not, merge it back into Justin Bieber and Twitter, variously. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 23:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DELETE with extreme prejudice merge any truly encyclopedic information to an article such as Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians and delete as WP:FANCRUFT and WP:NOTEVERYTHING.--William Thweatt ^Talk^Contribs 00:24, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete with fire. This is an encyclopedia. Arcandam (talk) 00:33, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete it. Hard. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 05:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per William Thweatt - the article is not even remotely encyclopedic. - Nick Thorne ^talk 12:58, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep with water. This is an encyclopedia. DeansFA (talk) 23:16, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete - This is an encyclopedia, not Twitterpedia. This is just a collection of indiscriminate information that has no notability separate from the original topic. DreamGuy (talk) 01:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source analysis[edit]

Comment: As there are comments on the quality of the sourcing, I have created the table below which demonstrates the wide scope of sourcing (newspapers, online news, radio, conferences, academic papers, books, magazines) covering a wide time arrange (2009-2012) with the primary topic as either Bieber or Twitter. Please bare in mind: These sources ONLY reflect the sources found in the article and not ALL available sources. The purpose of this table is to demonstrate how as an independent topic, Justin Bieber on Twitter passes both Organisation notability, as a daughter article of a person article notability, and passes the web notability guidelines for article notability. --LauraHale (talk) 21:59, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You must be joking. None of those sources are about the subject of this article. Arcandam (talk) 04:32, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Large table, click "show" to view --->

Source	Type	Bieber as primary topic	Twitter and social media as primary topic	Year published
All Things Considered (14 February 2011). Don't Deface Wikipedia Pages, Justin Bieber People. It's Not Dignified. NPR. A249103080. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Radio	Yes	No	2011
All Things Considered (9 December 2010). Can You Tell Whether A Song Is A Hit If It's Not On The Charts?. NPR. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Radio	No	No	2010
Andrew, Hampp (2010). By Singing Directly To His Fans, A Pop Star Is Born. Advertising Age (EBSCOhost) (21): 12. ISSN 0001-8899. 50883540. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2010
AOL Music Editors (13 April 2011). Justin Bieber breaks up with Twitter ... Via Twitter. PopEater. Retrieved 10 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
AR, Reshmi (3 April 2012). The Times of India: Biebermania hits again. The Times of India (Mumbai, India). Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Baeza-Yates, Ricardo; De Vries, Arjen P.; Zaragoza, Hugo; B. Barla Cambazoglu, Vanessa Murdock, Ronny Lempel, Fabrizio Silvestri (19 March 2012). Advances in Information Retrieval: 34th European Conference on Ir Research, Ecir 2012, Barcelona, Spain, April 1–5, 2012, Proceedings. Springer. pp. 503. ISBN 978-3-642-28996-5. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Conference	No	Yes	2012
Balzer, Paula (9 July 2011). Writing & Selling Your Memoir: How to Craft Your Life Story So That Somebody Else Will Actually Want to Read It. Writer's Digest Books. pp. 177–180. ISBN 978-1-59963-135-6. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2011
Barlow, Aaron; Leston, Robert (31 December 2011). Beyond the Blogosphere: Information and Its Children. ABC-CLIO. p. 233. ISBN 978-0-313-39287-0. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Barnett, Emma (26 March 2012). Instagram opens registration for Android app. London: Telegraph. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Barrett, Annie (25 May 2012). Lady Gaga's Twitter record: 25 million. Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Magazine	No	Yes	2012
Bertram, Colin. Lady Gaga Tweets to the Tune of 25 Million. NBC Chicago. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Bieber Backs Anti-Text-and-Drive Campaign. World Entertainment News Network (COMTEX News Network, Inc). 19 July 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2011
Bieber pokes fun at Yeater over paternity claims. World Entertainment News Network (COMTEX News Network, Inc). 22 April 2012. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Bieber Tops Twitter Trend List. World Entertainment News Network (COMTEX News Network, Inc). 16 December 2010. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Bieber, Justin (21 January 2012). @alungstory i got the word....you have amazing strength. i got u. #BeAnOrganDonor. Twitter. Retrieved 25 June 2012.	Twitter	Yes	Yes	2012
Bieber, Justin (22 July 2011). Justin Bieber boosts photo sharing service Instagram. London: Telegraph. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2011
Bieber's Beliebers Swell Twitter.com, but Gaga Still Rules. World Entertainment News Network (COMTEX News Network, Inc). 3 January 2012. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Bigge, Ryan (22 September 2010). Indie won now what? When the indie aesthetic becomes the mainstream, what happens to indie? Ryan Bigge argues it either embraces transparency or it disappears. Broken Pencil (Broken Pencil) (49): 13(4). ISSN 1201-8996.	Academic paper	No	No	2010
Bishop, Bryan (26 March 2012). Twitter daily use on the rise as Lady Gaga hits 25 million followers. The Verge. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Bodden, Valerie (1 January 2012). Justin Bieber: Musical Phenom. ABDO. p. 14. ISBN 978-1-61783-321-2. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Book	Yes	No	2012
Bolte, Mari (1 August 2012). Justin Bieber. Capstone Press. p. 23. ISBN 978-1-4296-8665-5. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Book	Yes	No	2012
Boone, Mary (2010). Justin Bieber : oh baby!. Chicago, Illinois: Triumph Books. p. 105. ISBN 1600785212. OCLC 683269374.	Book	Yes	No	2010
Bravo @ justinbieber. The Toronto Star (Ontario, Canada). 29 January 2012. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2012
Breton, Larisa; Pearson, Adam (6 November 2010). [smallwarsjournal.com/blog/journal/docs-temp/595-bretonpearson.pdf Contextual Truth-Telling to Counter Extremist-Supportive Messaging Online: The Wikileaks Collateral Murder Case Study]. Small Wars Journal (Small Wars Foundation): 6. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Academic paper	No	Yes	2010
Brooks, Riley (1 February 2011). Justin Bieber Quiz Book. Scholastic Inc.. pp. 21. ISBN 978-0-545-28610-7. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Book	Yes	No	2011
Burcher, Nick (28 April 2012). Paid, Owned, Earned: Maximising Marketing Returns in a Socially Connected World. Kogan Page Publishers. p. 168. ISBN 978-0-7494-6562-9. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2012
Burrell, Ian (12 April 2012). Early failures were seeds of Instagram's success — Business —. New Zealand Herald. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Bussmann, Kate (21 November 2011). A Twitter Year: 365 Days in 140 Characters. Bloomsbury. p. 120. ISBN 978-1-4088-2906-6. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Carter, Matt (12 December 2011). Charlie Sheen's Twitter mishap with Justin Bieber revealed. Entertainment Examiner (USA). Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Catch Kony campaign loses couch potatoes. Canberra Times. 20 April 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Charlie Sheen accidentally tweets his mobile number publicly. The Age (Melbourne). 13 December 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2011
Charlie Sheen accidentally tweets own phone number. New Zealand Herald. 13 December 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2011
Chen, Joyce (22 April 2012). Justin Bieber to alleged baby mama: 'You will never get this'. NY Daily News (New York). Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Cohen, Nadia; Saul, Mango (1 March 2012). Justin Bieber: Oh Boy!. Flame Tree eBooks. pp. 18–19. ISBN 978-0-85775-278-9. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Book	Yes	No	2012
Cross, Mary (7 June 2011). Bloggerati, Twitterati: How Blogs and Twitter Are Transforming Popular Culture. ABC-CLIO. pp. 52. ISBN 978-0-313-38485-1. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Cuenco, Marc (23 December 2009). Justin Bieber's 'My World' goes platinum in Canada. Entertainment Examiner (USA). Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2009
Curtis, Dustin (7 September 2010). At any moment, Justin Bieber uses 3% of our infrastructure. Racks of servers are dedicated to him. – A guy who works at Twitter. Retrieved 25 April 2012.	Twitter	Yes	Yes	2010
Daily Mail reporter (28 July 2010). Bieber fever: But if you want to outrun a horde of hysterical girls, Justin, maybe you should pick something faster than a Segway. The Daily Mail (United Kingdom). Retrieved 25 June 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2010
Dillon Summers, Kimberly (30 June 2010). Justin Timberlake: A Biography. ABC-CLIO. pp. 89–91. ISBN 978-0-313-38320-5. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2010
Dumenco, Simon (14 May 2010). On Twitter, Justin Bieber Is More Popular Than Jesus (but Jesus Is More Popular Than Betty White). Ad Age. Retrieved 27 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2010
Social TV and Trending Topics: What's Hot Right Now. Advertising Age. Retrieved 27 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Social TV and Trending Topics: What's Hot Right Now. Advertising Age. Retrieved 27 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Social TV and Trending Topics: What's Hot Right Now. Advertising Age. Retrieved 27 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2011
Dumon, Marv (24 August 2010). Lady Gaga the most followed person on Twitter. United States. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2010
FAQs About Following. United States: Twitter. 2012. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Twitter	No	Yes	2012
Feldman, Emily. Bieber Suffers Concussion After Walking into Wall at Paris Concert. NBC New York. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2012
Finlayson, Ariana (26 December 2011). Justin Bieber Surprises BFF with Mustang Convertible for Christmas. US Weekly (United States). Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Magazine	Yes	No	2011
Fitton, Laura; Gruen, Michael; Poston, Leslie (2 August 2010). Twitter For Dummies. John Wiley & Sons. p. 269. ISBN 978-0-470-76879-2. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2010
Fletcher, Dan (17 May 2010). Justin Bieber Fans Go to War With Twitter. Time. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2010
Fox, Vanessa (3 May 2010). Marketing in the Age of Google: Your Online Strategy Is Your Business Strategy. John Wiley & Sons. p. 212. ISBN 978-0-470-53719-0. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2010
g h i j k l Falsani, Cathleen (27 September 2011). Belieber!: Fame, Faith and the Heart of Justin Bieber. Worthy Publishing. ISBN 978-1-61795-027-8. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	Yes	No	2011
Get Kony goes viral: questions raised about charity's social media blitz. Canberra Times. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Gilmour, Kim (19 October 2011). Spotify For Dummies. John Wiley & Sons. pp. 35–36. ISBN 978-1-119-96149-9. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Godwin, Richard (24 April 2012). One night with Justin Bieber and I'm a Belieber. Evening Standard (London). Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Gogerly, Liz (15 January 2012). Pop Stars. The Rosen Publishing Group. pp. 11–13. ISBN 978-1-4488-7039-4. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2012
Gomez, Selena (12 March 2012). Justin Bieber Dead? Nah, Just Twitter's Latest Hoax Victim. E! Online. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2012
Gower, Eleanor (6 January 2012). 'I'm the luckiest girl in the world!' Lady Gaga becomes first person to pass 25 million Twitter followers. London: Mail Online. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Greene, Richard Allen (13 June 13 2012). Foul-mouthed Bieber -hating mother takes over @Sweden. CNN Wire. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Gross, Doug (16 September 2010). Pay for celebs to tweet for you (and charity) - Highlights -- TwitChange fundraiser for Haiti lets fans get a piece of celebrities on Twitter -- More than 150 celebs offer follows, and special treats like phone calls, for top bidders -- Chuck star Zachary Levi had the top bid as of Thursday morning -- The auction, promoted heavily by Eva Longoria, benefits A Home in Haiti charitable group. CNN (Atlanta, Georgia). Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2010
Gwynedd, Myrddin (14 December 2011). Oops! Charlie Sheen accidentally tweets his phone number. The New Zealand Herald. Retrieved 3 May 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2011
Haley, Adria (4 November 2011). 2012 Songwriter's Market. Writer's Digest Books. p. 75. ISBN 978-1-59963-232-2. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2011
Viral Video Charts: Week's Top Brand-Driven Viral Ads. Advertising Age. Retrieved 27 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2011
How to Speak Twitter. Business Week. 2 April 2009. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Magazine	No	Yes	2009
Instagram boss on Justin Bieber, Android and why he doesn't fear Facebook filters. Europe Intelligence Wire (Financial Times Ltd). 31 August 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
International Business, Times (5 April 2012). Justin Bieber, One Direction Collaboration ‘Very Possible,’ Twitter Fans React: ‘Kill Me The F—k Now’ (TWITTER). International Business Times. 324527.20120405. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Internet, networking aiding singer Bieber. UPI. 9 August 2009. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2009
Is Justin Bieber a Father? – Today's News: Our Take. TV Guide. 2 November 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	No	2011
Jarboe, Greg (4 October 2011). YouTube and Video Marketing: An Hour a Day. John Wiley and Sons. pp. 150. ISBN 978-1-118-20379-8. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Jill, Jodi (22 December 2009). Justin Bieber announces 'One Time- My Heart Unplugged Edition' released on iTunes today. Entertainment Examiner (USA). Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2009
Jill, Jodi (23 November 2011). Justin Bieber fans trend 'Today Show' performance on Twitter (30 photos). Entertainment Examiner (United States). Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Jimmy Kimmel sets off Justin Bieber fans over Twitter bio. Entertainment Examiner (USA). 28 January 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Jones, Steve (1 October 2011). Brand Like a Rock Star: Lessons from Rock 'n Roll to Make Your Business Rich and Famous. Greenleaf Book Group. p. 62. ISBN 978-1-60832-195-7. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Justin Bieber : Twitter following reaches 11 million – singer thanks fans. Entertainment Examiner. 14 July 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Justin Bieber a ocupat 3% din serverul Twitter (in Romanian). Agentia. 24 November 2010. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2010
Justin Bieber Accounts for 3 Percent of All Twitter Traffic. TV Guide. 8 September 2010. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2010
Justin Bieber Acted Like a Brat While Filming CSI — Today's News: Our Take. TV Guide. 9 May 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	No	2011
Scene \| Arts. National Post. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber Bungy-Jumps In New Zealand: Pictures, Photos. The Age (Melbourne). 28 April 2010. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2010
Justin Bieber celebrates 18th with pool table, eco-friendly car. The New Zealand Herald. 2 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Justin Bieber Cracks 9 Million Twitter Followers. andPOP.com. 22 April 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Justin Bieber denies he's a brat. The Age (Melbourne). 10 May 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2011
Justin Bieber enlists fans to pick cover of 'Boyfriend'; two choices on Twitter. Entertainment Examiner (USA). 16 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber fans 'Beliebers' hit Twitter in support of the pop idol after attack.(Brief article). International Business Time (International Business Times). 23 June 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Justin Bieber gets boxing with David Haye. Press Trust of India Ltd (Asia Pulse Pty Ltd). 15 March 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2011
Justin Bieber Has Racks of Twitter Servers, Uses 3 Percent of Site's Resources. GearLog (Ziff Davis, Inc). 8 September 2010. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Justin Bieber Reveals Secrets To Getting A Follow On Twitter. United Kingdom: Capital FM. 29 June 2012. Retrieved 30 Jyne 2012.	Radio	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber reveals Taylor Swift prank. The New Zealand Herald. 29 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Justin Bieber sued over Twitter phone prank. New Zealand Herald. 28 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber suffers concussion in Paris. Chicago Tribune (chicagotribune.com). 26 May 2012. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Justin Bieber suffers concussion in Paris. The Republic. 12 May 2012. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Magazine	Yes	No	2012
Justin Bieber Supergroup? Adam Levine Just 'Messing' Around. MTV. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber to the rescue on lung transplant. Toronto Star (Toronto, Ontario). 28 January 2012. Retrieved 25 June 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Justin Bieber turns to Twitter to deny paternity claims. Europe Intelligence Wire (Financial Times Ltd). 3 November 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
News. VH1. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber's 'attacker' dead ... if tweets could kill. New York: The Today Show. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber's Beliebers Make Death Threats Toward Mariah Yeater. Fox News. 7 April 2010. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2010
Justin Bieber's fans impressed with Lady Gaga?. daily bhaskar. 1 June 2012. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2012
Justin Bieber's Never Say Never Weekend. Venice, California: The Branding Farm. 2011. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Company	Yes	Yes	2011
Kaufman, Gil (8 September 2010). Justin Bieber Activity Drives 3 Percent Of Twitter Traffic. MTV. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Kenneally, Tim (28 March 2012). Justin Bieber Vs. Lady Gaga: Fans wage epic war for Twitter dominance. The Wrap. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
Khrabrov, Alexy; Cybenko, George (August 2010). Discovering Influence in Communication Networks using Dynamic Graph Analysis. 2010 IEEE Second International Conference on Social Computing. Minneapolis, Minnesota: Social Computing. pp. 288–294. ISBN 978-0-7695-4211-9. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Conference	No	Yes	2010
Klout Influence Report. Klout, Inc.. Retrieved 10 June 2012.	Company	Yes	Yes	2012
Kobre, Kenneth (1 February 2012). Videojournalism: Multimedia Storytelling. Focal Press. ISBN 978-0-240-81466-7. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2012
Kon, Fabio; Kermarrec, Anne-Marie (26 December 2011). Middleware 2011: Acm/Ifip/usenix 12th International Middleware Conference, Lisbon, Portugal, December 12–16, 2011, Proceedings. Lisbon, Portugal: Springer. p. 21. ISBN 978-3-642-25820-6. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Conference	No	Yes	2011
Lady Gaga breaks Twitter record. London: Telegraph. 6 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Lady Gaga hits record 25 million mark on Twitter. The Times of India. 1 June 2012. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Lady Gaga Is Queen of Twitter! Mother Monster Hits 25 Million Followers. E! Online. 31 May 2012. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Lady GaGa Passes 25 Million Followers On Twitter. MTV UK. 1 June 2012. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Lady Gaga sets new Twitter record. The New Zealand Herald. 7 March 2012. Retrieved 3 May 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Lady Gaga Surpasses 25 Million Twitter Fans. The Hollywood Gossip. 1986-03-20. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Leave it to Bieber: Pop star takes revenge via Twitter. Chicago Tribune (Chicago, Illinois). 17 August 2010. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2010
Li, Charlene; Bernoff, Josh (7 June 2011). Groundswell, Expanded and Revised Edition. Harvard Business Press. p. 109. ISBN 978-1-4221-4341-4. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Liu, Alan (2011). Friending the Past: The Sense of History and Social Computing. New Literary History 42 (1): 21–22. DOI:10.1353/nlh.2011.0004. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Academic paper	No	Yes	2011
Madden performs at Bieber's Malaysia gig. World Entertainment News Network (COMTEX News Network, Inc). 22 April 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2011
Marche, Stephen (10 May 2011). How Shakespeare Changed Everything. Harper Collins. p. 51. ISBN 978-0-06-196553-1. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2011
Marcus, Adam; Bernstein, Michael S.; Badar, Osama; Karger, David R.; Madden, Samuel; Miller, Robert C.. Twitinfo: aggregating and visualizing microblogs for event exploration. Proceedings of the 2011 annual conference on Human factors in computing systems. Vancouver, Canada: ACM. p. 232. DOI:10.1145/1980000.	Conference	No	Yes	2011
Marina, Mark (7 March 2011). Justin Bieber wants to grow a mustache. CNN. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2011
Massarotto, Marco (18 October 2010) (in Italian). Social Network. Apogeo Editore. pp. 201–202. ISBN 978-88-503-1233-7. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2010
Millard, Neil (2 June 2012). Twitter gaga for Gaga as record 25m follow star. London: The Sun. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Munier, Elise (1 September 2011). Justin Bieber: Unleashed. Canada: Scholastic Canada. p. 24. ISBN 978-1-4431-1315-1. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Book	Yes	No	2011
Murphy, Samantha (16 March 2012). Justin Bieber Wants Twitter Users to Pick the Cover of His Single. Mashable.com. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2012
Murphy, Samantha (23 April 2012). Justin Bieber Confronts Baby Accuser on Twitter. Mashable. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
O'Brien, Lucy (28 April 2010). Bieber fever as fans knock down mum. news.com.au. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2010
Omer, Nickie (25 April 2012). UK teen sensation Maynard says he's no Justin Bieber. Reuters. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	No	2012
O'Reilly, Tim; Milstein, Sarah (23 November 2011). The Twitter Book. O'Reilly Media, Inc.. p. 53. ISBN 978-1-4493-1420-0. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Parker, James (March 2011). Daydream believer: Justin Bieber found teenybop perfection with an insolent naturalness, a shimmer of religious transcendence, and a mastery of social media. Can he make the moment last?. The Atlantic (2): 38. A269875541. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2011
Petrovi´c, Sa¡sa; Osborne, Victor; Lavrenko (June 2012). The Edinburgh Twitter Corpus. Proceedings of the NAACL HLT 2010 Workshop on Computational Linguistics in a World of Social Media. Los Angeles, California: Association for Computational Linguistics. pp. 25–26. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Conference	No	Yes	2010
Piazza, Jo (15 November 2011). Celebrity, Inc.: How Famous People Make Money. Open Road Media. p. 130. ISBN 978-1-4532-0551-8. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
News & Opinion. PCMag.com. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Magazine	No	Yes	2012
Police pull the pin on web pranksters' Luna Park fest. The Age (Melbourne). 3 April 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	No	2012
Popkin, Helen A.S. (22 July 2011). Justin Bieber army invades Instagram. New York: The Today Show. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Proulx, Mike; Shepatin, Stacey (26 January 2012). Social TV: How Marketers Can Reach and Engage Audiences by Connecting Television to the Web, Social Media, and Mobile. John Wiley & Sons. p. 160. ISBN 978-1-118-23965-0. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2012
RIP Bieber Haters' Trends on Twitter, Combats ‘RIP Justin Bieber’ Death Hoax. 29 January 2012. 289245.20120129. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Academic paper	Yes	Yes	2012
Rosen, Christine (2012). Vive la Difference Feminism: With or without a crisis, the movement's second wave is still here. Commentary 1 (133): 42+. Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Magazine	No	No	2012
Runtagh, Jordan (31 May 2012). Lady Gaga Celebrates 25 Million Twitter Followers, Here Are The 25 Best Reasons To Follow Her. VH1. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Russell, Matthew A. (25 January 2011). Mining the Social Web: Analyzing Data from Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Other Social Media Sites. O'Reilly Media, Inc.. pp. 9–10. ISBN 978-1-4493-8834-8. Retrieved 25 June 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Safko, Lon (8 May 2012). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. John Wiley and Sons. p. 556. ISBN 978-1-118-26974-9. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2012
Şahinbaş, Leaf A. (9 May 2010). Genç kızların yeni idolü (in Turkish). Sabah. Retrieved 27 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2010
Schmidt, Christopher (14 July 2011). Justin Bieber tops 11 million followers on Twitter , 2nd all time to Lady Gaga. Life Examiner (USA). Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2011
Sheen forced to get new phone number after Twitter blunder. World Entertainment News Network (COMTEX News Network, Inc). 11 December 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2011
Sherwin, Adam (24 April 2012). Justin Bieber reveals new 'mature' direction as Biebermania hits London – News – Music. The Independent. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	No	2012
Singh, Shiv; Diamond, Stephanie (3 April 2012). Social Media Marketing For Dummies. John Wiley & Sons. pp. 143. ISBN 978-1-118-06514-3. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2012
Skinner, Mike (29 March 2012). The Story of The Streets. Transworld. pp. 164. ISBN 978-1-4464-8673-3. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	No	2012
Slattery, Brennon (23 November 2009). The Justin Bieber Example: Use Twitter or Incite a Riot and Get Arrested. PCWorld. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2009
Soccer's Kaka tops 10 million followers on Twitter. Associated Press News Service. 25 April 2012. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Spring, Neil; Riley, George F. (25 April 2011). Passive and Active Measurement: 12th International Conference, PAM 2011, Atlanta, GA, USA, March 20–22, 2011, Proceedings. Springer. p. 108–112. ISBN 978-3-642-19259-3. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Conference	No	Yes	2011
Starr, Colleen (31 March 2010). Justin Bieber is number one; Twitter followers plan a prank on Bieber for April Fools' Day. Entertainment Examiner (United States). Retrieved 30 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Stats & Rankings for Justin Bieber. Twitaholic.com. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Company	Yes	Yes	2012
Stephen Colbert, Drake, Justin Bieber 2010's Most Retweeted. GearLog (Ziff Davis, Inc). 15 December 2010. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Sullivan, Molly. Lady Gaga reaches 25 million Twitter followers. Hollywood: Hollywood News. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
The Daily Dot (27 March 2012). Justin Bieber ’s Twitter Prank Leads to Potential Lawsuit. Mashable.com. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2012
The Twitter Glossary. United States: Twitter. 2012. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Twitter	No	Yes	2012
The Twitter Top Ten: Musicians Rule. Electronic Musician 28 (1): 15. January 2012. ISSN 08844720.	Magazine	No	Yes	2012
Thomson Reuters (29 March 2012). Justin Bieber vs. Lady Gaga: Fans wage Twitter war. MSNBC. Retrieved 25 June 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2012
Thorson, Esther; Duffy, Margaret (19 August 2011). Advertising Age: The Principles of Advertising and Marketing Communication at Work. Cengage Learning. p. 93. ISBN 978-1-111-52875-1. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Trust an issue for Twitter users. Canberra Times. 22 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Trust an issue for Twitter users. The Age (Melbourne). 22 March 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Tsvetovat, Maksim; Kouznetsov, Alexander (6 October 2011). Social Network Analysis for Startups: Finding Connections on the Social Web. O'Reilly Media, Inc.. p. 18. ISBN 978-1-4493-0646-5.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2011
Turnbull, Barbara (25 April 2012). 'Immediate impact' to organ donation — Hélène Campbell's campaign cited in obit as inspiration for giving. The Toronto Star (Ontario, Canada): p. E6. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Twitter (30 November 2011). Justin Bieber passes 15 million Twitter followers. London: Telegraph. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	Yes	Yes	2011
Twitter (4 January 2012). Top 10 Twitter faux pas. The Daily Telegraph (London). Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2012
Twitter gaga for Gaga: Lady's 25m followers. NZ Herald. 17 March 2011. Retrieved 1 June 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2011
Twitter Has 'Racks of Servers' Dedicated to Justin Bieber. Time Magazine. 8 September 2010. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2010
Twitter's Top Trending Topics of the Week: Charlie Sheen's Winning, the iPad 2, and More. GearLog (Ziff Davis, Inc). 4 March 2011. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Online news	No	Yes	2011
Vena, Jocelyn (10 February 2011). Justin Bieber Vintage Video: 'I Love Twitter'. MTV. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2011
Vena, Jocelyn (13 April 2010). Justin Bieber Thanks Fans For Making Him A Twitter Trend. MTV. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Vena, Jocelyn (9 November 2010). Justin Bieber Hits 6 Million Twitter Followers. MTV. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Viscount, Melissa (15 June 2010). Justin Bieber breaks neck...Say it ain't so. Entertainment Examiner (USA). Retrieved 25 June 2012.	Online news	Yes	Yes	2010
Vogt, Brandon (5 August 2011). The Church and New Media: Blogging Converts, Internet Activists, and Bishops Who Tweet. Our Sunday Visitor. p. 19. ISBN 978-1-59276-033-6. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Warner, Janine; Andron, Lee; LaFontaine, David (12 July 2011). IPhone & IPad Web Design For Dummies. John Wiley & Sons. pp. 300–302. ISBN 978-1-118-00643-6. Retrieved 26 April 2012.	Book	No	Yes	2011
Watercooler: How Tweet It Is! Justin Bieber on Letterman — Today's News: Our Take. TV Guide. 1 February 2011. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Magazine	Yes	Yes	2011
Weekend All Things Considered (12 February 2011). Justin Bieber's Big Weekend: Keep Your Eyes On The Haircut. NPR. A248988813. Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Radio	Yes	No	2011
Whitney Houston's ex-husband is 'struggling'. The New Zealand Herald. 12 February 2012. Retrieved 24 April 2012.	Newspaper	No	No	2012
Williams, Justin (30 July 2009). Learn the ropes of Twitter etiquette. Evansville Courier & Press (Evansville, Indiana). Retrieved 1 July 2012.	Newspaper	No	Yes	2009

Comment I pity the fool who has to close this AfD entry..... --Ritchie333 (talk) 23:08, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, I'll bet you ten bucks it'll be no consensus, and if it ends in "delete" and I lose ten bucks I will gladly PayPal you the money. Drmies (talk) 00:39, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If that happens we may have to trout, desysop and retrout. Arcandam (talk) 00:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment 1)This isn't about Twitter separately or Justin Bieber separately, it's specifically about Justin Bieber on Twitter]]. That table of sources is meaningless (or WP:Synthesis at best) without a "Bieber on Twitter as the primary topic" column. 2)This article and the ones like it are the worst form of pop-culture presentism on WP. Just because something is popular (i.e. talked about a lot) doesn't make it Wikipedia notable. Twitter is the current social media fad. To put it in perspective, it will be irrelevant in 100 years (or sooner *cough* MySpace *cough*). I'm sure "Abraham Lincoln on the Telegraph" was a popular story or the first politician to use Robocalling got a lot of press, or how about "Elvis on the Home Telephone"? Our guidelines say "notability is not temporary". Logic dictates that since the popularity/usage/relevance of Bieber on Twitter is temporary, it is not notable.--William Thweatt ^Talk^Contribs 01:16, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am very disappointed to see this argument, because it mis-states at least two of wikipedia's policies, which means that you probably haven't read them. WP:Synthesis is all about using source A + Source B to come to conclusion C. This is not the case here, so it does not apply. I will oversimplify for those of you who do not follow: Source A (about JB) says: JB is popular on Twitter. Source B (about Twit) says: JB is a popular Twit and has X followers. Our article says: JB is popular on Twitter, quoting A and B. It is not synthesis, or original research, and the sources aren't bad, or misused, or wrong.

Notability is not temporary says exactly the opposite of your argument above. From WP:GNG: "once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage." This means once notable, always notable. In other words, if it gets RS coverage for just a short period of time, it is notable, and it is so forever. Please don't quote policies arguing that they mean the opposite of what they actually say.

For all of you who want to delete, all your arguments (too trivial, fancruft, etc) come down to one thing: I don't like it. There is no policy-based reason to delete, and, unfortunately for the deleters, this article passes ALL WP policies and guidelines with flying colours. The Steve 05:52, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lol. Do you really believe that? Did you check which of those sources are about the subject of this article? Arcandam (talk) 06:30, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The sources do not have to be about the subject of the article. Again, from WP:GNG: "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." If your source supports what you write, the headline is more or less irrelevant. Are you really not aware of this?? The Steve 08:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources further establishing notability[edit]

Comment: Because I worry the table above conveyed notability only based on the sources in the table and based on other comments that appear to demonstrate people are not looking at sources as they pertain to notability. The AVAILABLE sources also go towards explaining relevance more for some of the topics included. The level of coverage also helps argue against WP:FANCRUFT because they show the scope of publications commenting: It is beyond Bieber fans. (I really don't have the time to format the several thousand sources here that demonstrate notability but hoepfully, the sources encourage people to look at them.) --LauraHale (talk) 05:35, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

huge list of sources (hatted to keep it readable)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Radio

"Can You Tell Whether A Song Is A Hit If It's Not On The Charts?(20:00-21:00 PM)(Broadcast transcript)(Audio file)", All Things Considered, National Public Radio, 2010-12-09, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Companies Tweet for Attention.(21:00-22:00 PM)(internet advertising)(Broadcast transcript)(Audio file)", All Things Considered, National Public Radio, 2010-04-13, retrieved 2 July 2012
"How Black People May Or May Not Use Twitter.(20:00-21:00 PM)(Broadcast transcript)(Audio file)", All Things Considered, National Public Radio, 2010-08-16, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Why Twitter Ties Resemble Airline Hub Maps.(Broadcast transcript)(Audio file)", Morning Edition, National Public Radio, 2012-02-21, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber's Big Weekend: Keep Your Eyes On The Haircut.(19:00-20:00 PM)(interview with Justin Bieber fan Abbie Byford)(Interview)(Broadcast transcript)(Audio file)", Weekend All Things Considered, National Public Radio, 2011-02-12, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber: A Pop Phenomenon, Considered.(10:00-11:00 AM)(Broadcast transcript)(Audio file)", Morning Edition, National Public Radio, 2010-04-14, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber takes up 3 percent of Twitter servers.(Audio file)(Podcast)", MSNBC.com: Tech News & Reviews, StreetIQ, 2010-09-08, retrieved 2 July 2012

Newspaper article

"The doe-eyed digital popster clicking with every little girl; At 16, Justin Bieber is a pop sensation like no other, conquering countless hearts with a relentless use of YouTube, Twitter and webcam, writes Giles Hattersley.(Features)", Sunday Times (London, England), NI Syndication Limited: 5, 2011-02-20, ISSN 0956-1382
Freierman, Shelly (2011-01-17), "Popular demand.(album sales)(Business/Financial Desk)(Financial report)(Brief article)", The New York Times, The New York Times Company: B6(L), ISSN 0362-4331
"A nonbeliever's Bieber guide.(Features)", The Australian (National, Australia), News Limited: 36, 2010-09-21, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Researchers, clients cock an ear to Twitter.(Features)", The Australian (National, Australia), News Limited: 31, 2010-09-20, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Trust an issue for Twitter users.(News)", The Age (Melbourne, Australia), Fairfax Media Publications Pty Limited: 3, 2012-03-22, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Trends on Twitter brief but telling, just like in the real world.(News and Features)", The Sydney Morning Herald (Sydney, Australia), Fairfax Media Publications Pty Limited: 11, 2011-09-19, ISSN 0312-6315
della Cava, Marco R (2010-05-25), "Twitter power // learning from ourselves, in real time.(NEWS)", USA Today, USA Today: 01A, ISSN 0734-7456
"Obama treads the Twitter path.(News)", The Age (Melbourne, Australia), Fairfax Media Publications Pty Limited: 12, 2011-08-01, retrieved 2 July 2012
"So it's live in Pyongyang then, Justin? A vote to send Justin Bieber to North Korea is just the latest in a line of celebrity wind-ups and hoaxes. Chloe Lambert and Laurie Tuffrey report.(Features)", The Times (London, England), NI Syndication Limited: 4, 2010-07-07, ISSN 0140-0460
Bradshaw, Tim; Menn, Joseph; Waters, Richard (2011-06-02), "Smartphone tweets drive Twitter usage to new highs.(FRONT PAGE - COMPANIES & MARKETS)(Cover story)", The Financial Times, Financial Times Ltd: 17, ISSN 0307-1766
Bradshaw, Tim; Waters, Richard (2011-06-02), "Twitter use surges on back of football and bin Laden.(FRONT PAGE - COMPANIES & MARKETS)(Cover story)", The Financial Times, Financial Times Ltd: 17, ISSN 0307-1766
Rudd, Matt (2012-01-01), "Making its #mark on the world with sex and revolution.(Features)(Twitter)", Sunday Times (London, England), NI Syndication Limited: 4, ISSN 0956-1382
Bradshaw, Tim; Waters, Richard (2011-06-02), "Soccer and bin Laden boost Twitter.(FRONT PAGE - FIRST SECTION)(Cover story)", The Financial Times, Financial Times Ltd: 1, ISSN 0307-1766
"Justin Bieber recruited for Nassau PSA", Long Island Business News, The Dolan Company, 2011-05-06, ISSN 0894-4806
Tribbey, Chris (2011-04-04), "Bieber Blu-ray combo autographs sell out in minutes.(BRIEFS)(Brief article)", Home Media Magazine, 33 (14), Questex Media Group, Inc: 6(1), ISSN 1934-9882

Magazines

"All a-Twitter, Bieber bytes back.(STRANGE BUT TRUE)(Justin Bieber has posted Kevin Kristopik's number inf Facebook to teach him how was like to lose privacy)(Brief article)", Current Events, a Weekly Reader publication, 110 (2), Weekly Reader Corp: 6(1), 2010-09-13, ISSN 0011-3492
Robinson, Lisa (2011-02-01), "The Kid Just Has It.(Justin Bieber )(Biography)", Vanity Fair, 53 (2), Conde Nast Publications, Inc: 98, ISSN 0733-8899
Klara, Robert (2011-01-17), "Brands by Bieber.(NEWS)(Justin Bieber)", ADWEEK, 52 (2), e5 Global Media, LLC: 10(2), ISSN 1549-9553
"FanGager: Justin Bieber Has Most Active Facebook Fans", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2011-03-17, ISSN 1078-8085
Tracy, Marc (2010-07-01), "Send Bieber on Birthright!(Justin Bieber)(Brief article)", Tablet Magazine, Nextbook, retrieved 2 July 2012
Etkin, Jaimie (2011-03-07), "The Bieber Revolution.(Scope)(Justin Bieber)", Newsweek, 157 (10), Harmon Newsweek LLC: 9, ISSN 0028-9604
"PCMag BroadBand: Twitter Deals, Glenn Beck Starts 'University'", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-07-09, ISSN 1078-8085
"OMG! Justin Bieber Contest on YouTube! (With Some Others)", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-12-08, ISSN 1078-8085
Cosh, Colby (2011-03-07), "The persecution of Justin Bieber: shut out of the Grammys, trashed in the media, and now even Twitter has turned on him. Why is everyone attacking our 16-year-old superstar?(FAME)", Maclean's, 124 (8), Rogers Publishing Ltd: 44(3), ISSN 0024-9262
"Proactiv Gives One Winner a Chance to Meet Justin Bieber", Entertainment Close-up, Close-Up Media, Inc, 2010-09-14, retrieved 2 July 2012
Tracy, Marc (2011-01-03), "Sundown: Bieber Backs Center, Draws Ire.(Justin Bieber on Ground Zero Islamic center)(Brief article)", Tablet Magazine, Nextbook, retrieved 2 July 2012
Tracy, Marc (2011-04-12), "Bibi-Bieber Summit Canceled Amid Controversy.(Justin Bieber and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu)(Brief article)", Tablet Magazine, Nextbook, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber, Gaga Fans Enraged as Videos Disappear from YouTube", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2011-08-29, ISSN 1078-8085
Belloni, Matthew (2012-03-09), "The social media poll: THR and Penn Schoen Berland reveal the impact of Facebook and Twitter on what entertainment users watch, reject and write about.(THR EXCLUSIVE)(The Hollywood Reporter)(Report)", Hollywood Reporter, 418 (9), e5 Global Media, LLC: 64(3), ISSN 0018-3660
Lipshutz, Jason (2012-03-17), "Carly Rae Jepsen: Call Me Maybe.(Sound recording review)", Billboard, 124 (9), e5 Global Media, LLC: 38(1), ISSN 0006-2510
Parker, James (2011-03-01), "Daydream believer.(Justin Bieber)", The Atlantic, Atlantic Media, Inc, ISSN 1072-7825
"Brands Innovate In Social Media.(Conference notes)", WWD, 199 (120), Conde Nast Publications, Inc: 12, 2010-06-09, ISSN 0149-5380
Alini, Erica (2010-11-22), "Wal-Mart's star.(RETAIL)(Justin Bieber)(Brief article)", Maclean's, 123 (45), Rogers Publishing Ltd: 53(1), ISSN 0024-9262
"Xenon Pictures: New Justin Bieber Film 'Biebermania!' Coming to DVD", Entertainment Close-up, Close-Up Media, Inc, 2011-04-15, retrieved 2 July 2012
Macdonald, Nancy (2011-05-23), "Acting his age.(Newsmakers)(Justin Bieber)(Brief article)", Maclean's, 124 (19), Rogers Publishing Ltd: 10(1), ISSN 0024-9262
"Bitter Twitter.(GOOD NEWS)(Brief article)", Maclean's, 123 (33–34), Rogers Publishing Ltd: 9(1), 2010-08-30, ISSN 0024-9262
Levy, Piet (2011-03-08), "Pop singer Justin Bieber also low-key evangelist.(CENTURY news)", The Christian Century, 128 (5), The Christian Century Foundation: 16(1), ISSN 0009-5281
Zimmerman, Edith (2011-03-06), "TWITTER'S NEW ROMEO, PINCHING PANTS AND THE BIEB...(Magazine Desk)(LAST MONTH ON THE INTERNET)(Ghostface Killah, Levi's ex-girlfriend jeans, and Justin Bieber)", The New York Times Magazine, The New York Times Company: 17(L), ISSN 0028-7822
"Twitter Releases Top Trends of 2010", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-12-13, ISSN 1078-8085
"Bieber, Angry Birds, More Win Webby Awards.(Awards list)", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2011-05-03, ISSN 1078-8085
"Zero Followers? Twitter Fixes 'Force Follow' Bug", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-05-10, ISSN 1078-8085
"Justin Bieber's Manager Arrested... for Not Tweeting", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-03-26, ISSN 1078-8085
"Tunes' top tweets.(BITS & BRIEFS)(Brief article)", Billboard, 123 (1), e5 Global Media, LLC: 10(1), 2011-01-08, ISSN 0006-2510
Beck, John (2011-08-01), "Trading: Twitter - Tweet returns", The Banker, Financial Times Ltd, ISSN 0005-5395
"Twitter Denies Censoring WikiLeaks on Trending Topics", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-12-06, ISSN 1078-8085
"Twitter Refreshes Homepage to Better Reflect its Realtime Nature 207732", eWeek, Ziff Davis Enterprise, 2010-03-31, ISSN 1530-6283
Petrilli, Michael J (2011-09-22), "All A-Twitter about education: improving our schools in 140 characters or less.(what next)", Education Next, 11 (4), Hoover Institution Press: 90(2), ISSN 1539-9672
Hagan, Joe (2011-10-10), "Tweet Science; Twitter is building a machine to convert 140 characters on Barack Obama, Ashton Kutcher, narcissism, the struggle for human freedom, and Starbucks into cash--and quick, before its moment passes. Is this asking too much of even the world's best technologists?", New York, New York Media, ISSN 0028-7369
Wilson, Carl (2010-08-01), "Crushed out: Justin Bieber changed the shape of teen celebrity. He needs to change it back, before it's too late.(THE ARGUMENT)", Toronto Life, 44 (8), Toronto Life Publishing Co. Ltd: 86(2), ISSN 0049-4194
Cribb, Betsy (2010-10-22), "Youth troop makes altruism its priority.(V PLUS: YOUTH IMPACT REPORT)", Daily Variety, 309 (15), Reed Business Information, Inc. (US): A4(2), ISSN 0011-5509
"Looking for the Perfect Tweet", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2012-06-11, ISSN 1078-8085
Bart, Peter (2010-05-17), "Why a tweet is not discreet", Daily Variety, 307 (31), Reed Business Information, Inc. (US): 4(1), ISSN 0011-5509
Solway, Diane (2010-10-01), "Selena Gomez Will Tweet You Now", W, 39 (10), Conde Nast Publications, Inc: 104, ISSN 0162-9115
"Ann Curry's Haiti Tweet Tops Twitter's 'Most Powerful' List", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-12-14, ISSN 1078-8085
Bart, Peter (2010-05-17), "Rejections: why a tweet is not discreet.(first look)", Variety, 419 (1), Reed Business Information, Inc. (US): 2(1), ISSN 0042-2738
"Tweet or Die: Employers Hiring Based on Applicants' Klout Scores?", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2012-04-25, ISSN 1078-8085
Benjamin, Jeff (2012-03-31), "Ready to Moondance: after a boost from Bieber, Canadian artist Carly Rae Jepsen anticipates her next album.(POP)", Billboard, 124 (11), e5 Global Media, LLC: 38(1), ISSN 0006-2510
"140 Characters of clarity: industry tweets that caught our eye.(Community)", Broadcasting & Cable, 142 (3), NewBay Media LLC: 3(1), 2012-01-16, ISSN 1068-6827
Baker, Rosie (2010-12-14), "Twitter tops 25bn tweets in 2010", New Media Age Online, Centaur Communications Limited, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Colbert, Drake, Lil Wayne Had Most Retweeted Tweets in 2010", PC Magazine Online, Ziff Davis, Inc, 2010-12-15, ISSN 1078-8085
"DIGITAL: Tweets, Likes and views fuel music boom on social media", Music Week, UBM Information Ltd: 1, 2011-07-09, ISSN 0265-1548
Barclay, Michael (2011-02-21), "Top-tweeted bands.(BRIGHT IDEA)(music fans' use of social media websites)(Brief article)", Maclean's, 124 (6), Rogers Publishing Ltd: 43(1), ISSN 0024-9262
"Media: All About ... Rupert Murdoch's Tweets", Campaign, Haymarket Business Publications Ltd: 18, 2012-01-27, ISSN 0008-2309
Brochado, Solon (2010-12-15), "Com quantos tweets se faz um trending topic? Uma coisa e certa: eles nao sao os mais comuns, mas os que bombam de uma hora para outra.(texto en portugues)(Articulo breve)", Superinteressante (286), U-Near S.A: 54(1), ISSN 0104-1789
Griffith, Erin (2011-05-16), "Getting your klout out: site gathers a variety of social media variables, tweets, likes, and the like to create an influence score that--you guessed it--is starting to show up on resumes.(Trending Topics)", ADWEEK, 52 (19), e5 Global Media, LLC: 15(1), ISSN 1549-9553
"15 bits de fama: os famosos sao protagonistas de varias lendas urbanas - e sem ganhar cache! Quem e que resiste a clicar em um e-mail com fotos de uma celebridade nua? Melhor pensar duas vezes antes de se render a tentacao virtual!", Mundo Estranho, 9 (8), U-Near S.A: 20(2), 2010-08-01, ISSN 1676-9554

News wires

"BRIEF: Introducing the Justin Bieber Twitter haiku challenge", The America's Intelligence Wire, Financial Times Ltd, 2010-04-09, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber fever hits Liverpool", Europe Intelligence Wire, Financial Times Ltd, 2011-03-11, retrieved 2 July 2012
"BIEBER TOPS TWITTER TREND LIST", World Entertainment News Network, COMTEX News Network, Inc, 2010-12-16, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber fans 'Beliebers' hit Twitter in support of the pop idol after attack.(Brief article)", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2011-06-23, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber leads stars taking to Twitter greeting fans on Easter", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2011-04-25, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Selena Gomez Hacker, Gareth Crosskey, Jailed For A Year For Writing 'Justin Bieber Sucks' On Twitter, Facebook", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2012-05-22, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber breaks up with Twitter.(Brief article)", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2011-04-14, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber turns to Twitter to deny paternity claims", Europe Intelligence Wire, Financial Times Ltd, 2011-11-03, retrieved 2 July 2012
"BRIEF: The Justin Bieber Twitter Haiku Challenge: How you do it (or: A Very Special Comment of the Day)", The America's Intelligence Wire, Financial Times Ltd, 2010-04-13, retrieved 2 July 2012
"JUSTIN BIEBER BREAKS INTO MANAGER'S TWITTER", World Entertainment News Network, COMTEX News Network, Inc, 2012-06-11, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber Twitter Fanatic Claims Bieber Is Kurt Cobain Reincarnated, Controversy Sparks Social Media Trend", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2012-06-16, retrieved 2 July 2012
"BIEBER'S BELIEBERS SWELL TWITTER.COM, BUT GAGA STILL RULES", World Entertainment News Network, COMTEX News Network, Inc, 2012-01-03, retrieved 2 July 2012
"SICK BIEBER REFUSES TO CANCEL PHILIPPINES SHOW", World Entertainment News Network, COMTEX News Network, Inc, 2011-05-10, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Hit games boost Vivendi revenues.(Financial report)", Europe Intelligence Wire, Financial Times Ltd, 2011-05-12, retrieved 2 July 2012
"BIEBER'S REP DISMISSES ONE DIRECTION COLLABORATION REPORTS.(Sound recording review)", World Entertainment News Network, COMTEX News Network, Inc, 2012-04-06, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber will tour, perform in Japan, desptie crew's fears.(Brief article)", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2011-05-09, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Lady Gaga a bigger Twitter star than Justin Beiber - 10 million fans say so (PHOTOS).(Brief article)(Statistical data)", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2011-05-17, retrieved 2 July 2012
Gatehouse, Jonathon (2010-12-13), "A very sweet sixteen: Justin Bieber has sold millions of albums and topped charts in 17 countries. He's so ubiquitous it's easy to forget how young he still is.(POP STAR)", Maclean's, 123 (48–49), Rogers Publishing Ltd: 86(2), ISSN 0024-9262
"'YOU' AND BIEBER TOP XMAS TWEET WISHLISTS, BUT THE HIPPO IS CLOSING IN", States News Service, States News Service, 2010-12-14, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber's manager arrested in mall incident", Newsday (Melville, NY), McClatchy-Tribune Information Services, 2010-03-24, retrieved 2 July 2012
"SHORTY AWARDS ANNOUNCE TWITTER FINALISTS AND CATEGORY SPONSORS", States News Service, States News Service, 2010-02-11, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber, Rihanna, U2 come together to record Japan relief album", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2011-03-22, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Excited Fans Tweeting About New Justin Bieber Film "Biebermania!" Coming to DVD May 17th", PR Newswire, PR Newswire Association LLC, 2011-04-12, retrieved 2 July 2012
"A Chance to Meet Justin Bieber Is Just One Click Away", PR Newswire, PR Newswire Association LLC, 2010-09-03, retrieved 2 July 2012
"Justin Bieber Sends Out Matt Lauer's First Tweet On The 'Today Show', Thousands Follow [VIDEO].(Brief article)", International Business Times - US ed, International Business Times, 2012-06-15, retrieved 2 July 2012
"THE THINGS THEY TWEET:.(Solange Knowles on Justin Bieber)(Quotation)(Brief article)", World Entertainment News Network, COMTEX News Network, Inc, 2011-09-25, retrieved 2 July 2012

If you take some time to read some of the sources you'll notice a lot of 'em are used in violation of Wikipedia:Trivial mentions cannot verify notability and WP:PUFFERY and WP:UNDUE. Your attempt at impressing us has failed, look at the amount of reliable sources that write about Michelle Obama's arms. Arcandam (talk) 07:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break[edit]

Weak and fairly sickly keep. The fact that Bieber has more followers than anyone else on twitter (and isn't it usually written with a lowercase 't'?) is interesting and perhaps worthy of recording somewhere in the 'pedia. I think some, or a lot of trimming is needed here; this article seems confused as to its scope, and doesn't need quite so many examples of the various gems that Justin has twat over the years. pablo 13:26, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There's a principle at play here which I admittedly haven't been able to put my finger on. There's a lot of discussion on this page about sources, and wow can we find a lot of sources about Justin Bieber on twitter. I think we have to go deeper than that to ascertain notability. Here, I facetiously suggested we needed Justin Bieber on YouTube and Justin Bieber on Facebook. Bieber was discovered on YouTube and his channel is a top 50 channel. Tons of notability, right? As for Facebook, his presence there is a top tenner. Again, tons of notability, right? is the line merely that we need sources? Well, in that case why not an article titled Lady Gaga and her shoes. Hell, there are tons of sources on the subject. Is there a difference here with these type of articles and the recently featured article Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky and the Belyayev circle? I think we must view the former cases through the lens of Wikipedia:Recentism. That's where I think the issue lies. 30 years from now, will Bieber's presence on twitter be anything more than a foot note to his entire career? We don't know the answer to that. What we do know the answer to is that as of now, his presence on twitter is of no particular historical significance, and therefore is not encyclopedic. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:44, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, with no prejudice against adding some of this material into the respective articles about Bieber and Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians. Rationale is simple: Wikipedia is not for indiscriminate collections of information, and the various splits and related sections (WP:NOTTABLOID, WP:NOTFANSITE) of/from that policy. Need explanation? Let's do an in-depth analysis of section @justinbieber.
- First paragraph: a sentence establishing the owner of the account; next, a confusing quote that, TBH, I could not understand; then Bieber is a Twitter addict; lastly, Bieber tweets a lot.
- Second paragraph: Bieber joined on a certain date, and his mother is name-dropped; his early tweets were on XYZ, nowadays he sometimes makes random comments; he quit once; he jokes, and people believe him; another quote based on an odd, unexplained analogy.
- Third paragraph: Beiber tweets about many things, then we have a list of about 10 completely unrelated topics that Bieber has apparently tweeted on (e.g., Arab Spring, Kony2012, bungee jumping, spiritual references, texting, haters, himself). Sure, these are all ostensibly examples of the "broad range of subjects" that he tweets about, but let's be honest: this is just a way to list a bunch of tiny facts that Beiber has, at some point in his life, devoted nearly three sentences to.
- Fourth paragraph: Bieber has fans, and sometimes follows them. Then we have no less then a dozen random factoids of only minimally significant and connected information that I won't list here.
I challenge anyone to find more than five sentences in that entire section that are absolutely necessary to an article about Bieber and Twitter. It's all ..... just ..... trivia. This article has become a collection of the same, and so I believe that WP:NOT overrules the abundance of sources covering his WP:FARTS. Nolelover ^Talk^·^Contribs 16:10, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Many others have said it better, but I can only echo their sentiments. This article is mostly a collection of trivia and some stats. It's not very encyclopedic. It's not very educational. I believe it's covered by WP:NOT. I think all the useful information, which probably amounts to a paragraph or two, can be saved and placed in the Justin Beiber and Celebrities on Twitter articles. OohBunnies! (talk) 16:39, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
~~Neutral~~ - As I read the article here, Justin Bieber hasn't done significant things by using Twitter, such as philantrophy. This article suffers from too much recentism. Also, "keep"-ers said that this topic meets WP:GNG. However, from what I see, only news sources were used. Even academic journals have only statistics of this account. If only he uses Twitter for other things, such as Impact and philantrophy, as Ashton Kutcher did in the past... --George Ho (talk) 17:41, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – All the information in the article should be put into a single section on Justina Beaver called '@justinbieber'. The information should be condensed into 2 or 3 paragraphs about his account on Twitter and put onto the article. The current article is just bloated and has too much unnecessary information on the subject, which should be only 2-3 paragraphs long... – Plarem ^{(User talk)} 19:29, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as inappropropriate WP:POVFORK giving WP:UNDUE weight to WP:INDISCRIMINATE detailed trivial aspects of his biography. Siawase (talk) 19:40, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per OohBunnies. Frood! ^Ohai _{What did I break now?} 22:34, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: on the off chance that it affects anyone's !vote, here is a beginning of what I see as the keepable basis of the article, with the cruft starting to get peeled away to reveal the bones. There's something to work with here, imho, if we can actually manage to do the working. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 22:47, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, largely as per Jclemens and Sven. I'm tired of arguments based on "not encyclopaedic" because what they are really based on is a 19th century view that ensures that articles such as this wouldn't make it into publications such as the Encyclopaedia Britannica. From our own Encyclopedia comes a definition of "...together, the phrase literally translates as "complete instruction" or "complete knowledge"", and in this case, a well-sourced article about how one of the world's most recognisable personalities uses one of the world's best-known social media tools has to fit within "complete knowledge". On a different note, WP is desperate to attract new editors, and it can do no harm to promote the view that we are willing to entertain articles relevant to the 21st century (that the Britannica wouldn't be caught dead publishing). GFHandel ♬ 22:49, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The reason the Britannica wouldn't be caught dead publishing something like this (I am glad we agree on that part of this sentence) is because the Britannica is a serious encyclopaedia. Arcandam (talk) 23:34, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Meets wp:gng for general notability and wp:web and wp:org for subject matter notability, as the sources are extensive, reliable, and third party. This article's content is like our extensive collection of articles on noted individual blogs or websites (we even cover that long defunct Nupedia site). The deletes all seem non-policy based around WP:BELONG. Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:14, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep: This article clearly passes GNG. You can't just delete an article, because you don't like the topic; which I fear is the rationale behind many delete votes. TRLIJC19 (talk) 03:12, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, after all thought, ~~Delete~~. Amount of notability of this topic is irrelevant. Whether it meets WP:GNG, WP:notability (web), or any other notability rule is no longer an issue. Instead, this article is about Justin Bieber on Twitter. Clearly, it is a recap of what Justin did on Twitter told by news sources, which is against WP:IINFO, which also included non-fictional works, such as this topic. In policy, fiction or nonfiction, all works should include significant viewpoints or commentary mainly about the account and Bieber themselves together. This article... well, it is duplicated from Justin Bieber with some additional stuff, like stats, that do not suffice encyclopedic value. Without reaction, like "Justin is a liar" from some newspaper critic, where can we find such analysis or review? --George Ho (talk) 03:21, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete OMG, Wikipedia is getting bad.--JOJ ^Hutton 03:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update - I have added a reassessment request on this article's status as Good Article. ~~Nevertheless, neither individual~~ nor community reassessment has yet been created. Go to Talk:Justin Bieber on Twitter and create either. Preferably, with an anger here, community is needed. ~~Also, FAC nom is closed as failure.~~ --George Ho (talk) 07:11, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I withdrew the FAC nomination. It was not closed as failure. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:28, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- More - I have created Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Justin Bieber on Twitter/1, but it's not a majority vote, and voting is not allowed there. Nevertheless, make your arguments when you can. --George Ho (talk) 07:42, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete For a number of reasons:

1. The topic has no enduring notability.

2, One of the keep votes stated: This is obviously a spinoff/split from the main articles about Justin Bieber and Twitter, which sounds a lot like stating that this article is a cross-categorization. Per WP:NOTDIR Cross-categorizations are very often non-encyclopedic.

3. Claims that the article article clearly passes GNG' sound like following of rules despite the intention of the rules, per WP:IAR they can be ignored if it violates the spirit of why we have GNG. Just because we have sources talking about something doesn't mean it's encyclopedic. In fact many of the keep voters appear to acknowledge that the topic is not encyclopedic: "Is this what I would choose for the encyclopedia? No."

4. The argument that "The article has many reliable sources, very specifically the claims in national newspapers that he is the second most popular celebrity Twitter user (presumably in the world?), which counts as notable in my book", is the same as arguing that J.K Rowling on Books is notable.

5. Arguments based on "Refers to something involving millions of people and millions of dollars" seem to be a non-argument for a deletion discussion. Popularity doesn't make something encyclopedic

IRWolfie- (talk) 09:48, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In what way is it? I don't understand what you mean - that sounds like WP:OTHERSTUFF. There is an obvious cultural phenomenon happening here with modern youth that is interesting to witness. Although I'm a hair's breadth away of changing my vote to Oh, you know, who really gives a monkeys? --Ritchie333 (talk) 10:01, 3 July 2012 (UTC) this comment was in response to point 4, I've moved it out from in between my points. IRWolfie- (talk)[reply]

This sort of Bieber on twitter article is the same as dedicating an article to some aspect of any major personality about pretty much any arbitrary part of their life, see [56] for some examples given. Yes sources might exist, but it's not truly encyclopedic, merely indiscriminate. IRWolfie- (talk) 11:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I think plenty of people have spoken as to why. Sarah (talk) 10:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Media attention establishes notability. Everyking (talk) 11:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This is the fancruft drift that we have to keep out of the project. Celebrities get an inordinate amount of coverage over what they wear, where they eat, and who they fuck. Just because the media has discussed Bieber twittering, it is just a form of communication, and people here are confusing what the person says (possibly notable) with the means of communication (not notable). Bieber, or any other celeb, twittering with fans is worth a few lines in his bio, not this massive dump of trivial information and twitter-minutiae. Tarc (talk) 13:18, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and integrate summary section to Justin Bieber and Twitter. Supporters of retention of this article are appealing too literally to the policy regarding the existence of reiable sources. There are plenty of reliable sources that mention JB and his tweets, but as a standalone subject of an article, it just doesn't fly. Someone mentioned the race for #1 between JB and Gaga. Well, next year it will between someone else, and yet another person; next decade, no-one will remember these people. The reliable sources will exist forever, but the encyclopedic content belongs in the context of JB himself or, more intriguingly perhaps, in the article on Twitter itself. But not this stand-alone article. hamiltonstone (talk) 13:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and delete - Fails to meet notability requirements for an independent article, and works much better as a component of the main Justin Bieber article. Any article that mentions Bieber's Twitter activity demonstrates his notability, not the notability of a particular element of his behavior. If we make articles about specific behaviors of celebrities notable, there's a whole list of things that could be included Tom Cruise jumping the couch, Oprah giving away cars, Arnold Schwarzenegger saying "Hasta la vista", Bushisms, etc. Nathan^T 14:36, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (I know I !voted above, just trying to brainfart a line of thought - not sure where it will go): We have the article Grass (the green stuff that grows outside, eaten by cows), with many references showing its notability (and I think that no-one disagrees). We also have the article Green (the colour, the one between yellow and blue on the rainbow), also there many references showing its notability (and again, I think no-one disagrees that the article is about something notable). So, the logic extension is Grass is green needs an own article, that must also be notable. Naturally, there are many references showing that most forms of grass are green, about the chlorophyll that gives it its colour, etc. etc. So, seen that that article would have a lot of references, must mean that it is notable and worthy of an article ... no-one can claim that it is original research, a particular point-of-view (maybe someone who is colour-blind can, but well). The bottom line: We only have articles when the subject is notable, but not every fact that is notable is worthy of an own article. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the gist of what you are saying, but I also think that the comparison is off. Does the color of grass have any independent significance from the color of other plants that would make it of particular interest to people looking intio biological pigments? That sort of question is what we need to seriously examine here. Lots of celebrities are on social media, for sure, and there are plenty of other social media where Bieber is active. However, that fact alone should not guide anyone's opinion. Does Bieber's activity on Twitter stand out in a way his activity on other social media or a way that the activity of other celebrities on Twitter does not? I say that answer is yes.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:01, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm .. 'Does Bieber's activity on Twitter stand out in a way his activity on other social media or a way that the activity of other celebrities on Twitter does not? I say that answer is yes.' - now, if you can find reliable sources stating that that is the case .. we might get somewhere, otherwise that question will be quite original research. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 17:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The topic receives consistent, excessive mainstream attention. Additionally, Beiber's activity on twitter has been subject to legal discourse and the fervour of his fans has compelled advertising companies to look to twitter. It has a lasting impact in the field of social media and advertising. Additionally, using IAR as a rebuttal to an article passing GNG is an obvious application of WP:IDONTLIKEIT.Smallman12q (talk) 17:40, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It's well-written and very well-sourced, so that'll do for me. (COI disclaimer: crush on the original author of the article.) Lewis Collard! (lol, internet) 21:45, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Quality of old and new doesn't matter as much as value of this article itself. Quality looks fine, but... value? Ty Russell article looks small, but its topic may have some value. This Twitter article... has no encyclopedic value; it doesn't explain why topic is generally significant. It doesn't explain general analysis on Bieber's exploitation of Twitter. It says that events made account newsworthy, which doesn't suffice. How can good quality of an article overcome bad value of a topic? --George Ho (talk) 21:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I like solid standards like verifiability rather than arbitrary, subjective ones like "value of topic". But we don't gain anything from arguing that one. Lewis Collard! (lol, internet) 12:48, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

After rewrite[edit]

Note: Article has now been significantly rewritten. Per consensus on the article's talk page, I've sent my rewrite of this article live. I'd appreciate if people would take a few minutes to check over the new version and see if their !votes remain the same or if they want to change them. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:07, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- Nah .. still delete - I still think that the whole concept is not notable enough for a stand-alone article. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 17:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Polishing a turd doesn't make it into a diamond. A rewrite cannot address the crux of the calls for deletion, that the entire concept of a "person on twitter" article is bad. Tarc (talk) 17:31, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Nevertheless, it looks good for a user sandbox. Still "delete" for me. --George Ho (talk) 17:34, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Better. Thanks. Keep rewrite. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:36, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete What's next, Justin Bieber's website? His cellphone usage? Twitter is a mere communication platform, and people and businesses use it for the same purpose, and mostly in the same manner. There are very few *notable* ways of using it, and this sure is not one. A paragraph of possibly *useful* stuff may belong on the main twitter article, but not here (✉→BWilkins←✎) 17:52, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Note that Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashton Kutcher on Twitter has closed as delete. Assuming this closes the same, it should be end of "celebX on twitter" articles, such content can just be put into the subject's main article.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 19:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- No, it cannot. If closed as WP:NOT, then such material will be absolutely prohibited on Wikipedia, even in the celeb's article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:09, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Hawkeye, I think you are totally wrong. The close there using NOT INDISCRIMNATE,with which I agree, was saying that making a separate topic of this was indiscriminate coverage. Many things too insignificant to make a full article can nonetheless be part of article content. Your statement, that nothing about a person's use or popularity in twitter, can ever be part of the content of a Wikipedia article, is a gross overextension of the meaning of the policy. DGG ( talk ) 22:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: If there is any useful material, apart from trivia, in this article it can be incorporated into the main subject artcile. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:20, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Now that Fluffer and I have trimmed it (by around 50%, not the 90% I rather hyperbolically proposed) I think it could be kept. --John (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Reaffirm delete While I appreciate the efforts of Fluffer and John and the new page is indeed improved, it still doesn't meed policy such as WP:INDISCRIMINATE or WP:NOT. An article can be good in appearance but that doesn't mean it is notable. Toa Nidhiki05 21:11, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Controversy" section is a retelling of events. Every where I see in this article is a bloated retelling of everyday life that doesn't fit general needs of a reader. --George Ho (talk) 21:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Still Delete A rewrite doesn't address the issues at hand, namely the conflation of "fleeting popularity" with WP "notability" and the issues of pop-culture presentism. Pare it down and merge it into the Beiber article and/or the Celebrity use of Twitter article.--William Thweatt ^Talk^Contribs 22:03, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -- while editing the controversy section further or removing it entirely (I have particular doubts about the 4th item). To the extent Bieber has continuing significance , this will be a part of it. Things can be important for a while , and once so, they remain of encyclopedic notability forever, because an encyclopedia is a permanent record. I congratulate fluffernutter, John, and anyone else who participated in making an article out of this. I did not think it could be done. DGG ( talk ) 22:09, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Still delete The rewrite is an improvement, but I think it could be further trimmed and maybe some merged. I don't think it truly merits independent notability. Most of it is just trivia still though. Many sources exist for Bieber on TV, should we have an article on Bieber on TV [57][58][59][60]? IRWolfie- (talk) 22:29, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

that it could be further improved is not reason for deletion. Essentially every Wikipedia article could be further improved. DGG ( talk ) 22:38, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was not saying that this was my reason for delete. My reason is that is WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:NOTDIR. IRWolfie- (talk) 08:40, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per the closing rationale on the "Ashton Kutcher on Twitter" AfD. We need to nip this in the bud. Articles on notable celebrities are fine, but sub-articles on every detail of the celebrity's life are unneeded. Otherwise, we could have Justin Bieber's relationship with Selena Gomez, Justin Bieber haircut (now a redirect to haircut), Justin Bieber Fan Club, Justin Bieber on YouTube, Justin Bieber's views on Christianity, Justin Bieber on Instagram, Justin Biber's 2012 wardrobe, etc. All have received extensive press coverage, but none merit separate articles. Cbl62 (talk) 23:11, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Even stronger Delete upon review, this is just a great example of what Wikipedia is NOT particularly TRIVIA and INDISCRIMINATE not to mention NOT DIARY.LuciferWildCat (talk) 00:17, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I don't see why this should be treated differently than any other website. Its get ample coverage, not just for the activities of his on it, but for the twitter account itself. And getting "180 million page views per month" is fairly notable. Dream Focus 01:17, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as fancruft that is clearly against the policy WP:NOT. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 01:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Although this article isn't my favorite, I want to take this chance to say rather directly that there is no reason to believe this article violates either the letter or the spirit of WP:IINFO in any way that justifies this AfD. 150.35.244.246 (talk) 04:57, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete There has been no book exclusively about Bieber' twitter usage. Websites can be notable, but having an article about a twitter account, doesn't sounds good. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^Talk ^Email 11:22, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's lots of things that have articles and don't have books written about them (Angels on horseback, anyone?). That's not a valid reason for deletion. Drmies (talk) 12:31, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article is not "fancruft" nor a collection of tweets; but a well-sourced and scholarly work by an editor working on a doctorate in social media. I fear for the fate of articles like Barack Obama if any article can be described as a collection of information. This is a misuse of WP:IINFO. Hawkeye7 (talk) 13:36, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you read the AfD for Ashton Kutcher on Twitter it becomes obvious that that person is very arrogant and not as smart as xe thinks xe is. This has more to do with the devaluation of doctorates, but that is offtopic. Arcandam (talk) 13:41, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Would you please remove this as it sounds like a personal attack. Thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:54, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Xe still has to redact a couple of false statements about me. Xe has also made a false accusation against a person I love which need to be redacted. But this is all offtopic. Arcandam (talk) 19:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: As the consensus here will likely show that this is a notable topic, other imaginary articles are irrelevant. If the claim is WP:NOT, consensus will have to show that this article falls within that policy, as nothing in that policy requires deletion of notable topics. (particularly since twitter account related articles exist, see eg. Shit My Dad Says) (Also, note its possible that unintentional double votes are likely in this section, it would probably be best to label such things as Comment)Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:46, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As the consensus here will likely show that this is not a notable topic, Shit My Dad Says is notable as a twitter account and Bieber as a celebrity, other imaginary articles are relevant. For instance: "Justin Bieber on Youtube". Plenty of reliable sources. Still not a good topic to write an article about. We are building an serious encyclopaedia. Arcandam (talk) 13:51, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: because this is what Wikipedia is WP:NOT. Wikipedia is WP:NOTDIARY, WP:NOTCASE study, and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. This is not a simple issue of notability. The fact is, for any major public figure, you're going to be able to assemble sources about a myriad of subtopics. Barack Obama's appearances in Ohio. Justin Bieber's live performances. Lindsay Lohan's substance abuse issues. Those would all technically be sourceable. The problem is, you're starting to get into topic selections that resemble the biases of the editor. You're starting to confuse "the subject" with "what the subject is notable for". It's your standard WP:CONTENTFORK problem where people can write multiple articles that are all basically about the same thing, which would make the encyclopedia even more unmanageable than it already is. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This argument is difficult to understand when Charles Lamb is a subject but so is Letters of Charles Lamb; and Jack Benny is a subject but so is The Jack Benny Show; and Samuel Johnson is a subject but so is Life of Samuel Johnson. Articles exist because they are discrete topics, no matter how famous the public figure is. Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:08, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What? These examples were published into paper and shows. These articles you mentioned have a general overview and balance, as well as significant history of publication and critical commentary. Obama-Twitter article, on the other hand, requires balance, which is absent, and a significant viewpoint, which I tagged for such. --George Ho (talk) 16:27, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was responding to the famous person point but as you note articles are improved over time.Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oops... my mistake: Bieber-Twitter also needs balance, which is lacking here. --George Ho (talk) 17:32, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, note the different communication mediums involved (letter, book, radio, TV), just like this is a different communications medium. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:38, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTCASE says "This is perfectly acceptable when the two variables put together represent some culturally significant phenomenon or some otherwise notable interest." Per the arguments I have given above I say this subject easily satisfies that standard.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:42, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What "phenomenon"? What "notable interest"? Popularity? Controversial decisions by the celebrity? I don't see any philantrophy or political campaign. There aren't any reviews in general, either. What more can it be explained or excluded from this article? --George Ho (talk) 18:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'Barack Obama's appearances in Ohio. Justin Bieber's live performances. Lindsay Lohan's substance abuse issues. Those would all technically be sourceable.' For what it's worth: I think the third of those would be a no-go due to WP:BLP issues, but the first two would probably be perfectly acceptable as articles, if anyone cared enough to collect the sources and write them. Robofish (talk) 15:48, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Collective Reply: The principle at play is WP:NOT. The whole purpose of WP:NOT is to say "notability isn't everything". (If it were, then we wouldn't need WP:NOT.) WP:CASESTUDY, WP:NOTDIRECTORY, WP:NOTNEWS, and WP:NOTDIARY all exist to say "just because something has third-party sources about it, it doesn't mean we create a stand-alone article about it". Notability isn't enough by itself.

It's actually very easy to see the principle at play when you use the examples from Alan Scott Walker. Wikipedia often has articles about public figures, and Wikipedia also has articles about published works centered on those figures. That includes notable biographies like Life of Samuel Johnson, broadcast television programs named after people such as The Jack Benny Program, and historic letters such as Letters of Charles Lamb.

What we don't do is create a theoretically infinite number of subarticles like "Jack Benny's romantic life" or "Samuel Johnson's hobbies", even if there were a way to synthesize these topics from lots of published material. We cover these in a myriad of other ways, generally as part of another article. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:33, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete it, and slam the door on it on the way out. I know I'm just reiterating what others have said here, but what a pop singer says online is unencyclopedic, let alone warranting of its own article. If your interested in somebody's Tweets, then do you A) read the person's Tweets or B) read about the Tweets on Wikipedia? I have a feeling almost everybody answers "A". The people who want to keep this page can rewrite it a million times for all I care, but the truth is it is what Wikipedia is not - Wikipedia is not a directory, and is also not an indiscriminate collection of information. Just because something is verifiable and well-sourced doesn't make it suitable for inclusion at Wikipedia. As somebody said above, this is gonna be a tough AfD to close. Does anybody know if we can get Jimbo to close it? RedSoxFan2434 (talk) 19:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

His charitable work, such as with charity: water, is mentioned. His raising awareness of the Arab Spring is discussed. And you do not seem to understand AfD. AfD is not about content; articles can be improved. A stub article does not get deleted merely because it is a stub. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, AFD is also about value of the content. No matter how you add or exclude some content, Good Article or not, execution of the topic is poor. That's all. --George Ho (talk) 20:48, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article is not a summary of a book, it is not a collection of lyrics, and it is not a list of statistics. In other words, it does not satisfy any of the criterea for WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:37, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need Jimbo at the moment, I think the admin who closes this debate will have enough clue to make the right decision. See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ashton_Kutcher_on_Twitter, a good decision with sound reasoning behind it. Arcandam (talk) 20:30, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My thing about Jimbo was supposed to be a joke. RedSoxFan2434 (talk) 22:08, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- The lack of sound reasoning is discussed at User_talk:Scottywong#Close rationale Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:36, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:IDHT and WP:STICK. Arcandam (talk) 22:52, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quite. Also, the lack of understanding by some editors here does not make the reasoning unsound. If ever there was a case of WP:INDISCRIMINATE then [[<insert celebrity of your choice here> on Twitter]] is a classic example. If the subject of the article actually did something of note through using their Twitter account, then that action itself may be a subject for a possible article if it's not appropriate to just include it in the main article. Twitter is just a medium of communication, do we have article on individual people's use of the telephone? That celebrities, especially young ones, use Twitter is no surprise and not noteworthy without some other compelling circumstances clearly lacking here. - Nick Thorne ^talk 00:24, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you all suggesting that I don't understand WP:INDISCRIMINATE? The common interpretation of WP:INDISCRIMINATE (and the one I accept) is that the examples given there are EXAMPLES of indiscriminate collections of information that should not be included. Perhaps something along the lines of "<celebrity> on <social media>" should be added to WP:INDISCRIMINATE as another example? (Of course, that discussion should not take place here.) RedSoxFan2434 (talk) 00:56, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon? I am not arguing that the examples in WP:INDISCRIMINATE are an exhaustive list, completely the opposite. You might like to re-read my post a little more carefully. - Nick Thorne ^talk 01:48, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know we're on the same side here: I may have misunderstood you to say that I and others lack understanding BUT have sound reasoning, when in fact I do understand the policies. RedSoxFan2434 (talk) 03:32, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if I was not clear. My response was meant to be a direct reply in agreement with Arcandam regarding his responsse of WP:IDHT and WP:STICK to HHawkeye7's post. I meant it to be in support of your rationale for closing the other discussion and an endorsement that you are IMHO correctly interpreting policy (particularly WP:INDISCRIMINATE). I guess I just sometiimes tend to get a bit baroque in my writing style. - Nick Thorne ^talk 07:58, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The confusion may have been my fault due to unclear indenting, mea culpa, those two links are in response to Hawkeye7. Arcandam (talk) 09:40, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some content moved to Talk:Justin Bieber on Twitter. --George Ho (talk) 00:38, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. I can see this content being of use to the relevant biography but not as a fork; the level of sourcing indicates that a reasonably-sized article could be written for Beiber's use of other internet media individually too, which to me seems unduly weighted towards his use of Twitter (my own personal misgivings for the site aside, it shouldn't be treated as a stand-in for all internet-based promotion). A broader article along the lines of Justin Beiber and social media, Promotion of Justin Beiber, etc, that focuses not on one outlet but on the wider use of media to promote a singer would probably have much greater merit, though given the relative size of this article and the parent article I'm not sure a fork is even necessary at this stage over a direct merge into Justin Beiber. GRAPPLE X 03:22, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:INDISCRIMINATE applies despite the fact that it does not explicitly preclude factoid lists. There is an enormous number of references and an enormous load of discussion so it is hard to be sure, but it seems there is no secondary source on the actual topic (that is, the significance of Bieber's Twitter account). Anyone writing about Bieber is going to mention his tweets, and anyone talking about big accounts at Twitter is going to mention Bieber—those are reasons for a mention in the respective articles on Bieber and on Twitter, but they are not reasons for editors to choose commentary to conclude that someone's tweets are notable. Johnuniq (talk) 10:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Hey, wait a minute - Jimmy Wales is notable, and so is The Reichstag. Perhaps we could have ... oh, hang on a minute .... --Ritchie333 (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - pretty clearly a notable topic, as shown by the extensive analysis of the sources further up. Yes, 99% of Twitter accounts aren't notable, but this one is. Merging into Justin Bieber would seem a bad idea, as that article's pretty long already. I have to say I feel a lot of the 'delete' opinions in this AFD basically come down to WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Robofish (talk) 15:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That said, I do agree with Grapple X's suggestion above that it might be more appropriate to rework this article into a broader one on Justin Bieber in social media. That would address people's complaints that it singles out Twitter unjustifiably. Robofish (talk) 15:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Honestly that seems like WP:ILIKEIT when the delete side has made a very compelling case that WP:INDISCRIMINATE applies to this article. Toa Nidhiki05 16:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per common sense; we're a serious encyclopedia and this is a trivial topic. Encyclopediacy trumps any notability guideline. This is simply inappropriate for an academic resource, our reliability aside. The rise of new media has blurred the line between notability and sheer triviality—closing admin must not fail to distinguish this line. /ƒETCH COMMS / 17:32, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As a complete aside, I was listening to Radio 2 a few nights back and Pete Waterman was on, discussing the "good old days" of "classic pop". 25 years ago, had Wikipedia existed, we could have been having exactly the same "unencyclopedic" arguments about Rick Astley and his videos, moaning about how music today just "isn't what it used to be". Now, in 2012, it's been held in fond regard as "classic pop". The sad fact is, you're old. It happens. In 2037, there'll be a flood of people moaning about how modern pop just isn't like the "good old days" of Justin Bieber. --Ritchie333 (talk) 18:18, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That argument seems oddly familiar. You basically just went to these two AfDs and copy-pasted this argument. Please provide a perspective that suggests you actually examined the merits of the case.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's rather dickish of you, honestly. Fetchcomms is an well-established editor here, and if he believes that AfDs on similar topics warrant the exact same response, then one shouldn't jump to bad conclusions that the user failed to read up on the matter beforehand. Tarc (talk) 18:29, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think telling someone to assume good faith and then call them a dick in the same sentence is a bit below the belt. --Ritchie333 (talk) 19:24, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. The part of AGF that most seem to forget is "clear evidence to the contrary", and explicitly saying "you didn't read the merits of the case" is a clear sign of bad faith. Tarc (talk) 19:29, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Asking someone to provide a perspective suggesting they examined the merits of the case is not the same as saying they didn't. It also doesn't imply bad faith. Someone may make a blanket, biased judgment about the validity of an article topic completely in good faith. That doesn't imbue the argument with any validity.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 20:52, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ritchie333: I'm not old. Nor is this about music. It's about encyclopedic relevance. I think that Bieber's Twitter account may well be considered notable in the future. That's what I meant when I said that the line is blurred because of new media's prominence in society. But at this time, I consider Twitter accounts to be trivial and unencyclopedic topics. We didn't allow YouTube "celebrities" some years ago as much as we do now, because YouTube's influence has grown and along with it, the notability of those people. The Devil's Advocate: I did copy-paste the argument. The argument is not based on the merits of this article. In fact, the whole point is to say that this article has no encyclopedic merit, and nor does any article on a similar topic. So many thanks for stating what I already knew—that my rationale applies to any celebrity Twitter account article. Regardless, I did skim through both articles before participating in their respective discussions, and found nothing that justifies their encyclopedicness. /ƒETCH COMMS / 22:14, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, when I meant "you're old", I didn't mean specifically "you", just anyone older than Bieber's target market. What's really depressing is I've just found out I'm older than his mother :-( --Ritchie333 (talk) 22:28, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete this is not the place for a trivial actions article on anyone WP:NOTTWITTER.Moxy (talk) 19:19, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That policy is not even remotely applicable here, it is about an entirely different type of content.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 20:52, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry your right my bad .. wrong link...new link to same page WP:NOTDIARY.Moxy (talk) 21:47, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I don't understand why there hasn't been a merge proposal. Every single delete argument basically comes down to the fact that the scope of this article is too narrow. I don't disagree. So why has no-one suggested a merge to an article with a wider scope? Justin Beiber, Justin Beiber in new media, Justin Beiber in social media? Anyone? The Steve 03:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- You might have missed Talk:Justin Bieber#Merger proposal. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:14, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per fluffernutter, who has done a very good job of trimming and rewriting the article to making it appear more encyclopedic, and less of an indiscriminate assortment of tweets. The topic has received sufficient media coverage for a separate article. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 04:10, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete & merge Wikipedia should not have articles detailing celebrity activities on a social media websites. It lessons the credibility of the site as a whole. There is no guarantee he will remain the most followed use on twitter, nor does this warrant a separate article outside of the twitter or JB articles. What he does or does not do on twitter is not really relevant to anything. He's not a politician, his opinion on arab spring is not notable. His use of twitter to talk to fans is not in anyway unique, or notable. I see no reason to include an article of this size except for his own fan support and pr purposes. It's very promotional. At best, the information contained within warrants a paragraph in the JB article.

While we're at it, let's get rid of Lady Gaga on Twitter too. It's even worse. Rizla (talk) 17:10, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete article, but merge the non-trivial bits (by which I mean the majority of the article) into Justin Bieber and/or Twitter. I could see how it would be a good example of the power of individual users on Twitter, but a whole article? WP:WHIM seems to apply here, a lot of the article is random facts about individual tweets. From what I've seen of the sources, a large number of them refer to Justin Bieber as the principal subject, and his twitter account only as a side-issue. See WP:WEB - web content does not necessarily have inherited notability. In addition, if we were to adopt the level of notability for social media that this has, we should note that there are enough sources tangentially covering various topics, with articles being needed for hundreds of public figures on many different kinds of platform. This seems to go against the spirit (if not also the exact letter in every case) of several policies, including WP:NOT for a start, WP:NOTDIARY, and, again, WP:IINFO.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 20:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Sources indicate that this is clearly a notable topic and meets GNG web content should not have inherent notability unless sources indicate it does and i see that in this case. I agree it is fancruft but its notable and i don't feel we should discriminate. Edinburgh Wanderer 20:54, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge and redirect to the main articles on Justin Bieber or Celebrity use of Twitter. There are some sources about his use of social media, such as the one from Time, but most of the material in the article is ridiculously over detailed and often backed by less-than-credible sources or derived tangentially from sources primarily about things other than his Twitter account. Thus, those sources do not support an argument for general notability. This is clearly one important aspect of the subject's enormous notoriety, but is a relatively minor one in the context of his life and celebrity. Steven Walling • talk 22:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Steven, that was very well stated, and for the most part I agree. In my earlier comment I was wondering why there weren't more votes of this nature in this thread (sorry if I wasn't clear), as all the deletion comments make a much stronger case for merge and redirect than they do for deletion. The Steve 04:25, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some relevant content was already copied-and-pasted into Bieber article. What else is mergable in this article? --George Ho (talk) 04:53, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea, as this is pretty far from my preferred areas of editing. But having that whole article available in the history makes it so much easier to find the (ridiculous number of) sources should you need them, and the redirect should prevent incessant re-creation, that I can't imagine why the merge option wasn't more popular. The Steve 05:16, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing else relevant to merge into Bieber article. There is enough information already in that main article. --George Ho (talk) 07:14, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The other option is creating individual celebrity paragraphs in the quite small Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians. A section for Kutcher, Gaga, and Bieber seems merited there. Steven Walling • talk 17:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, this is a properly written article, with strong sourcing, etc. Given that 133 news outlets are reporting on "Justin Bieber gains 6 million Twitter followers in 4 months‎", it's clearly notable. -- Zanimum (talk) 15:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Seriously, even growing statistics could not suffice value of an article alone. Even TV episode reruns and video game stats do not suffice value of a topic. --George Ho (talk) 15:07, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment So, I decided to stop by and actually read this article. what I've read so far has plenty of fat to trim; but since you've become so convinced it's been exhausted of value...You mentioned philanthropy earlier, right? Darryl from Mars (talk) 16:29, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - I've already copied-and-pasted philantrophy stuff to main Bieber article before the subarticle was reverted back to condensed version. Look, I'll copy-and-paste philantrophy stuff back into subarticle if you want, but it won't make any difference. --George Ho (talk) 16:50, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      - Should be careful in how things are worded - as asking people to donate money is not philanthropy. Philanthropy is when someone gives there money away.Moxy (talk) 16:56, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        True, I did want to start from a subject he had specifically mentioned though. You got the water thing, I think I saw, what about the sudden flux of organ donors? Darryl from Mars (talk) 17:30, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        The article on Hélène Campbell, who spurred him to tweet about organ donation, is relevant. -- Zanimum (talk) 18:22, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete After the rewrite, the only part that I thought was really notable, the competition between Gaga and Beiber for the number one slot, was gutted in totality. Therefore I don't see this as worth keeping anymore. This overrides my previous keep vote. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:53, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete There is nothing so notable about the account that it cannot be rolled into the main article concerning Justin Bieber (where this would likely be tagged undue). My thoughts on this article have already been written by someone else at WP:FART, so I will only link to it. --Nouniquenames (talk) 00:09, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep: there is a "I know it when I see it" line when we're dealing with X on Twitter articles, and Bieber is above that line. I should point out that, for example, Twitter actually changed their trending topics algorithm because of Bieber; if anything, this shows notability beyond "X uses Twitter". That should be the baseline for these articles: whether their relationship with Twitter consistently rises above that line. Probably for that reason, I'd lean to keeping this article (and probably Gaga and Obama, and, if it's created, One Direction, but not Yoko Ono, Rihanna, or Britney Spears). Sceptre ^(talk) 07:27, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Justin Beiber and/or Celebrities on Twitter per Steven Walling. WJBscribe (talk) 22:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Glenn Jasper[edit]

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Advert for a pr guy written by his pr company. Lead sentance says he is a senior partner for a red linked company so no notability from that. Lacks significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Current sourcing is a local interest puff piece, press release and passing mentions. A search finds lots when he says something as a spokesman but nothing substantial about him. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete per G4 - "Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion.". The sources are two press releases and cursory mentions - plus the paragraph about the radio show is completely unsourced and should be deleted per WP:BLP regardless. --Ritchie333 (talk) 10:24, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, fails WP:GNG. - Mailer Diablo 02:18, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Porscheshop[edit]

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A business that has failed to garner much notice. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:59, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Lacks reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by WP:GNG. Googling turned up nothing. Subject appears to be a WP:Run-of-the-mill auto shop. Wikipedia is not for WP:PROMOTION. Msnicki (talk) 16:37, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:GNG I notice this article's creators few edits in 2007--was only on this article. And then he/she went away forever. It looks like this article will always be an orphan rather than a notable article. --Artene50 (talk) 04:31, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Specialist Engineering Contractors Group. At least until size considerations require a spinoff. Sandstein 07:52, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lift and Escalator Industry Association[edit]

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Delete. Non-notable per WP:ORG. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:49, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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merge This is apparently the principal national organization in its field, and therefore notable. But given the present lack of material, there's an obvious merge possible to Specialist Engineering Contractors Group, It can be expanded later. DGG ( talk ) 03:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I added some information about the trade show that it operates. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:28, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is a significant industry sector, but currently poorly covered in Wikipedia. Stubs like these needed to (hopefully) help stimulate more editorial contributions, references, etc. Paul W (talk) 21:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge per DGG's argument, given the difficulty of finding independent in-depth coverage on this particular organization. Ammodramus (talk) 19:57, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge, as suggested by DGG. Just doesn't seem to be enough info available here at the moment, but I can see how the Specialist Engineering Contractors Group page could quickly become quite cumbersome if editors started adding to the six different associations in it. Until then, though, it seems it'd be most efficient and accessible with them together there on that page. Zujua (talk) 07:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Black Kite (talk) 08:42, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Karen Friedman[edit]

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This BLP is about the former wife of Henry Hill, about whom Goodfellas was filmed. Henry Hill is undoubtedly notable, but notability is not inherited. There is undoubtedly some coverage about her, but I am unconvinced that she is notable independently of her ex-husband. I am also concerned about the BLP implications of having an article about the wife of a mobster. Quasihuman (talk • contribs) 15:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Henry Hill seems an obvious action. I agree that she's not notable, since any coverage of her is related to her husband, and she's not done anything of note separate from him.--Colapeninsula (talk) 15:13, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think WP:BLPNAME and WP:BLP1E might apply here, that's why I didn't propose a merge. Should we have more than a brief mention of this person in the article about her ex-husband. I'm also not convinced that redirecting this to an article about her mobster ex-husband would be the best idea for a BLP. Quasihuman (talk • contribs) 15:27, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I haven't found additonal sources to support this. The news article never mentions the dental hygienist occupation or the "new identity" sentence. SwisterTwister talk 03:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge any info that meets the verifiability standards to Henry Hill; I see that the info on their marriage is unsourced on his page - could the article presented here be used as a source for that info? Zujua (talk) 07:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. We seem to agree that she's not individually notable, and it would be inappropriate to redirect a WP:BLP to an article about a mobster (which is what a merger would entail). Sandstein 07:58, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTINHERITED CyanGardevoir ^{(used EDIT!)} 10:59, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Indian Idol 5. Sandstein 07:53, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tia Kar[edit]

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Indian singing-reality-show contestant. Stood 6th. Fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Also claims to be an upcoming actress of films that haven't started their principal photography. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 10:01, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom, coming in 6th on a reality show is not notability, so she shouldn't have an article until those alleged films are made. Specs112 t c 13:22, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Indian Idol 5 for now. Actually a BLP1E, could be re-splitted in a short time when the films in which she starred will be released. Cavarrone (talk) 07:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Indian Idol 5 as suggested by Cavarrone seems to be the way to go, until release and notability check of said films. Zujua (talk) 06:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shivam Pathak[edit]

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Indian singing-reality-show contestant. Stood 5th. Fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. §§AnimeshKulkarni (talk) 09:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, WP:BLP1E Specs112 t c 13:24, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Indian Idol 5 per WP:BLP1E.Cavarrone (talk) 07:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, lacks verifiability. - Mailer Diablo 02:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Lacks references. Google search throws up only passing mentions that he is one of the participants. Should not be redirected to Indian Idol 5 because WP:BLP1E suggests redirect if the subject is notable for one event. But here, notability of the subject is not established. Anbu121 (talk me) 08:27, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 07:59, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Amplify LA[edit]

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Delete per WP:NOTADVERTISING, no secondary sources. Just a promo piece. The article's author appears to be a single-purpose account. TuckerResearch (talk) 01:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment please also take a look at User talk:Asadbutt5483, where the article is replicated. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:18, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete At best, this is an example of WP:TOOSOON. I can't find any sources, so it appears to have no notability. Amplify LA ranks very low on Alexa. Roodog2k (talk) 14:05, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Doesn't seem to be of encyclopedic interest. I agree with the above comments. Zujua (talk) 06:30, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mikkel Parlo[edit]

Knocked Jared Combs the fuck out.

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Non-notable - competes in non-notable events Peter Rehse (talk) 02:21, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Has never competed for a top or second tier MMA organization so obviously fails WP:MMANOT. He may become notable, but right now that's just WP:CRYSTALBALL. Mdtemp (talk) 16:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete As previously stated, the subject does not meet the notability criteria for MMA fighters since he's fought only for minor organizations. He has now signed with Bellator, but I couldn't find any scheduled fights for him. Three fights with Bellator would satisfy the notability criteria, but "right now that's just WP:CRYSTALBALL" (to quote Mdtemp). Papaursa (talk) 23:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. WP:CRYSTAL, based on the article's content, which seems to indicate that the subject is not notable yet. Janggeom (talk) 14:58, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 18:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kristie Yung[edit]

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Not sure about this. At first reading I thought it would be easy to find sources, but the only one I can find which passes WP:GNG is this one, and I'm not sure that one source is enough. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 23:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - if the best and only source you can find is written by a diversity reporter (?) it's a hint that the alleged notability is really just propaganda. DreamGuy (talk) 01:23, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. No sources have been provided within the article other than the subject's own web site. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The consensus is weak here, but with the lack of anyone (apart from the nominator) arguing for deletion I can't see any other closure other than keep being possible here, with the article having already been relisted 3 times. Davewild (talk) 18:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Hiltzik[edit]

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Subject does not appear to be notable according to WP:BIO but has merely received glancing mentions in several sources due to typical work as a publicist. —Eustress ^talk 04:22, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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I believe that Matthew Hiltzik is more than just a publicist. I looked at the references, and this is someone who got a full page profile in the Washington Post. There was also a NY1 profile on him, and both of these are listed in the references. After reading the profile, it seems that he is more than a publicist. AEAA (talk) 15:42, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's unclear to me why this particular article is tagged for possible deletion. Subject meets the WP:BIO criteria for notability, with multiple published third party stories in major media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.147.72.27 (talk • contribs)

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Please keep this page, as I do not see any sufficient reason to remove the page. This page follows structure and format, while referencing where needed. Matthew Hiltzik is also an executive producer, which is noted in the article. He has also worked on multiple award winning films. He does meet the criteria for notability as well. GD23 (talk) 14:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has come to my awareness that the article may best fit under the description at WP:GNG, which would leave the article as is. GD23 (talk) 16:45, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain how GNG is appeased. We're not mind readers :) —Eustress ^talk 00:33, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is sufficient national/international coverage, therefore it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article. GD23 (talk) 16:27, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen this guy's name associated with a number of national stories in the last 24 hours. i don't think this article is a good candidate for deletion. Legacy2012 (talk) 17:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC) — Legacy2012 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Like what? Please provide concrete examples and explain which criteria of WP:BIO this individual meets? —Eustress ^talk 18:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I hope none of the comments above can be attributed to sock puppets. I am trying to assume good faith, but for editors with little or no edit history to jump into an AfD discussion is highly suspect. —Eustress ^talk 18:23, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The Washington Post article is in depth enough to suggest notability, but a lot of it is name drops; unable to find any other in depth independent source to meet multiple. IMDb references and poorly formatted titles to try to influence search results are not encouraging. Dru of Id (talk) 01:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Week keep - I really hate to say it in light of the suspicious behavior above, but I think the fact that the guy is the focus of at least two nationally significant reliable sources (The Washington Post piece and the Variety article) that he may just squeak by the general notability guidelines. A lot of the other sources are crap/trivial and the article could use some major cleanup, but he does seem to legitimately have his hands in a lot of notable things in a notable way. DreamGuy (talk) 02:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the NY1 One on One piece as well. That profile articulates the notability of the subject.(GD23 (talk) 18:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC))[reply]

No, it really doesn't. It's not indepth. We incidentally get the biographic details of: his mother's name, his hometown, his religion (which has affected his career), and his political party (which he's professional enough to perform to high standards regardless of whether it matches his clients') [plus the private detail of having children, which I only include in a bio if a) pictured in references and unavoidable b) separately covered or independently notable c) stated no longer minors]. The rest, again, is name dropping clients and unencyclopedia detail. Dru of Id (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As far as notability goes, after looking into the NY1 profiles, there are only 30 a year that is done on the whole New York City. Therefore, that seems to be quite an accomplishment to be made. GD23 (talk) 16:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A news agency focusing on the five burroughs doing a piece on someone from New York City is local coverage, whether they do 3 or 3000. If he were an out of state interview they did it might count for notability if it was a third source backing national coverage of The Washington Post; and Variety. Dru of Id (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep NY1 + Wash Post + Producer of Paperclips = keep. Also, the mere fact that the same guy represented Hillary Clinton, Glenn Beck and Harvey Weinstein is in itself notable. -- Vonfraginoff (talk) 09:17, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. —Tom Morris (talk) 12:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gersh Kuntzman[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Does not pass WP:N Hapmin (talk) 04:49, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 June 8. Snotbot t • c » 05:09, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. —Tom Morris (talk) 12:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Heroes and Villains Entertainment[edit]

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Article about a company that lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources to satisfy notability in general or that specific to companies. All I was able to find was minor mentions in conjunction with work from Top Cow. Whpq (talk) 15:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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A redirect for now, and a mention in the Top Cow might be in order, as the two organizations do share lots of coverage.[61] I have the sense from available coverage that 'Heroes and Villains Ent' just does not quite meet WP:CORP... at this time. Considering their growing coverage, in six or 12 months this may change. So I'd also suggest it be "userfied"... returned to its author for continued work in the meantime (mostly imrpovement it its existing sourcing). Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 04:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Seems to be a sufficient number of reliable third party sources in my opinion. Like everything, it could use improvement, but I see no need for deletion. TDFord — TDFord (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Mentioned in good independant sources like "Comic Book Resources" and "Newsarama," seems legit and notable enough. As far as combining it with Top Cow, it does seem like they have a lot in common as far as the comic books go, but from what I could find it seems that their management portion of the company is completely seperate, and so they deserve their own article. I think it should stay, can be improved over time. FrankClinton — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrankClinton (talk • contribs) 19:39, 21 June 2012 (UTC) — FrankClinton (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

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The result was Keep. As noted, a (potentially) controversial topic in and of itself is not valid reason for deletion. The nomination rationale has appears to have been countered as well. (non-admin closure) KTC (talk) 00:36, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ahbashism campaign[edit]

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Nothing in here not already covered in Al-Ahbash article. Sourcing is lousy as well Darkness Shines (talk) 19:52, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep The Ahbash article has a single line about this action in Ethiopia. I believe the expanded coverage is warranted, given the reaction of the Ethiopian population. The sourcing of the original article was dubious, but I think the sourcing of the present version appears neutral enough. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 04:43, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Since this page is going to become (In fact, it already has just like the Al-Ahbash page) yet another tool for propaganda and bringing the "Wahabi vs. Ahbash" fight to the Wikipedia pages by the Ahbash, thus, it should be deleted. Thank you. McKhan (talk)
- Comment the controversial nature of the page, and the likelihood that POV editing will occur on it, is not a valid reason to delete it. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 11:33, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. The policy that forbids deletion on those grounds is WP:ATA#Susceptibility to policy violations. Anarchangel (talk) 07:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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"removed an obnoxious template placed here by User:Anarchangel"--DBig Xray 21:52, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Original text of removed templat: Substantial text was removed from this article prior to or during AfD. This notice is added to prevent misrepresentation of the potential of the article under discussion, compromise of the relevance of contributions to the discussion, and complication of the discussion's conduct and closure. This is not an official WP notice Anarchangel (talk) 00:19, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, given the current sources alone (verifiable) and considering systemic bias it should be a sizable event in Ethiopia. - Mailer Diablo 02:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Siolim. Consensus is that this does not merit a separate article, but to preserve attribution have redirected to Siolim, where the merge has already taken place. Davewild (talk) 18:25, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notable Chapels in Siolim, Goa[edit]

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Topic is non-notable. Some part has been merged into Siolim#Chapels_in_Siolim The Discoverer (talk) 19:08, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I can and do think that some travel guides would probably be able to establish notability of some churches in Siolim. I am in fact virtually certain of it. However, I do not see that the creator of this page has made any effort to establish the notability of the individual buildings or even of the topic itself as per WP:NOTABILITY. John Carter (talk) 20:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I'm not seeing any notability here. OSborn ^arf_contribs. 21:42, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Siolim Since the material in the article has been merged, redirect needs to be retained for the attribution history. I'm a bit confused as to whether the article intended that chapels were not the same as churches, while this source was interesting. Also, the use of the word "notable" in the article title cannot be construed to mean the same as wp:notable. Unscintillating (talk) 02:43, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
MERGE with Siolim or Delete. Not notable. No reliable sources available or cited. So either Merge or delete. Better merge with Siolim without duplicating the contents already present in that page. --Bharathiya (talk) 19:02, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge with Siolim or Delete The article can't stand alone due to its lack of notability. --Artene50 (talk) 00:10, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete; bad article title. The Discoverer (talk) 08:25, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Siolim per Unscintillating. -- 202.124.73.246 (talk) 13:30, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Davewild (talk) 17:45, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Luigi Pizzimenti[edit]

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Pizzimenti appears to be an avid and even knowledgeable amateur "space-ologist" -- a collector of space memorabilia and stories -- but I find no valid argument to call him notable. What press coverage I can find about him appears to be in the form of announcements of shows or lectures he is presenting, but no substantial independent coverage. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:04, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - It seems like someone with the credentials stated in the article would have more obvious reliable sources covering him in a non-trivial way (announcements of speaking engagements doesn't make one notable for an encyclopedia or else everyone who talks at a local historical society or hosts a book/knitting/chess club that gets into a weekly paper's events pages would all have articles too). There's a slim possibility that there could be foreign language sources we are missing, but ultimately it's up to the article to prove notability, not us to prove lack of notability, so it should be deleted. DreamGuy (talk) 01:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I should also add that the listed ISBN of the book he is said to have written does not come up in a WorldCat search or in the Università degli Studi di Pavia Library (book is Italian, that's a major Italian library) using the Wikipedia ISBN/book links page. DreamGuy (talk) 01:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, fails WP:GNG, lack of independent and reliable third party sources. - Mailer Diablo 02:22, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No prejudice against recreation of the title as a redirect to the 1906 siege The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:35, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Siege of Maarat al-Numaan[edit]

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Simply put the article is in violation of three Wiki guidelines. The main is Wikipedia:Verifiability. The article has no sources to back-up the claims in it. Second. It does not fulfill the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability. Except for one sentence The Siege of Maarat al-Numaan was part of the 2011–2012 Syrian uprising. the article has nothing to say to the Wikipedia readers. Third, given no sources are provided for the article it could also be considered in violation of Wikipedia:No original research. I think that says it all. Considering the event, if it even happened, was not followed in the mainstream media, if someone manages to get a source on it, it will still be in violation of the Notability act, thus in that case it would be more preferable to merge what few sentences there are to the Timeline article instead of leaving a fork article like this. Thank you! EkoGraf (talk) 00:21, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Siege of Ma'arra, which refers a very notable siege of Maarat al-Numaan in 1096. I can't find evidence that this is a notable event, a search of Gnews archives verifies that a siege took place, one source mentions it: [62]. One sentence in one source does not a notable topic make. All mergable content is already contained in Timeline of the 2011–2012 Syrian uprising (May–August 2011). Quasihuman (talk • contribs) 12:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No references, nothing to talk about. EllsworthSK (talk) 21:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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I checked if major material was removed as you say Anarchangel. It seems all of what was removed was unsourced info which the removing editor had all right to delete. Wikipedia is based on Verifibility. EkoGraf (talk) 13:39, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Nothing that can't be addressed in Syrian uprising (2011–present) if deemed noteworthy. We don't need to fork every little thing about a protest movement. Tarc (talk) 14:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, No reliable sources found to indicate an event, if there really is one, occurred or that if the event occurred that it is notable.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. —Tom Morris (talk) 12:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Material heresy[edit]

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The subject isn't sourced nor is it notable Casprings (talk) 03:24, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Creating deletion discussion for Material heresy

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Keep Admittedly, this article in its current state lacks references and does not adhere to the neutral point of view. However, a Google Books search clearly demonstrates that this is a notable topic in Roman Catholic theology. We don't delete articles about notable topics. Instead, we improve them, expand them and add references to them. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Agreed, a quick perusal through the Google Books link above appears to show many presumably reliably sourced usages of this term that match what little is currently in the article. Jclemens (talk) 06:40, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:TNT. The topic is notable, but there is nothing in this POV attack page worth keeping. A place to start a future article might be the Catholic Encyclopaedia: "Material heresy on the other hand, i.e. an error in faith entertained undesignedly and unconsciously, is in itself neither sinful nor punishable, except where the error is itself inexcusable. In excusable error are all who possess subjectively the firm and honest conviction that they have the true faith of Christ, thus including the vast majority of non-Catholics, who were born and educated in their particular form of belief... The fact of having received valid baptism places material heretics under the jurisdiction of the Church, and if they are in good faith, they belong to the soul of the Church." -- 202.124.72.35 (talk) 08:08, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)~~Keep~~ as rewritten. The article as it stood at the time of nomination was completely unusable, because it was mirepresenting a particular tendentious application of the term (in the context of a fringe position of traditionalist Catholic anti-Protestant polemics) with the actual definition of the term. I have completely removed the old content and replaced it with a simple definition stub sourced to what seems to be a reasonably neutral reliable source. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- On second thought, prefer merge (of the new stub material) and redirect into Heresy. Not enough substance for a standalone article, and can be better covered in the larger context. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"removed an obnoxious template that was placed here"--DBig Xray 21:48, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Text of template: Substantial text was removed from this article prior to or during AfD. This notice is added to prevent misrepresentation of the potential of the article under discussion, compromise of the relevance of contributions to the discussion, and complication of the discussion's conduct and closure. This is not an official WP notice Anarchangel (talk) 00:14, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep for now. As the article stands, it's a stub. It could be expanded well past a dicdef, I imagine. Also, wouldn't there be a WikiProject for the RC Church that may be interested on working on this article? Not for nothing, but that opinion could be helpful, asking the SMEs....Roodog2k (talk) 19:47, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was SPEEDY DELETE. JIP | Talk 05:56, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Evan tolkkinen[edit]

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Missing any notable reference links. Also an orphan and dead-end page, the latter though can be fixed. It's also a possible hoax - to my knowledge nobody by the name of Evan Tolkkinen exists. If he did, his ability to consistently knock down 60-yard field goals would probably show up somewhere in my College Football fantasy draft guide. Also, this article was nominated for Speedy Deletion under G3 three times, all removed by the creator of the article. He has been suitably warned. Regards, RomeEonBmbo 02:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete as obvious hoax. Rotor Shame University? Get real. GregJackP Boomer! 02:27, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: As 173.29.133.74 kindly proved, this is definitely a hoax. Note the lack of a "Tolkkinen" on the current roster. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Bears#Current_roster) Regards, RomeEonBmbo 02:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete as obvious hoax and as vandalism (both covered by WP:CSD#G3) and per the nom and GregJackP. — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 02:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete. This appears to be a hoax by a child. See his facebook page here. Cbl62 (talk) 05:42, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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