Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Africa

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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Africa. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Africa[edit]

History of the Jews in Mauritania[edit]

History of the Jews in Mauritania (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The vast majority of sources about Jews in the context of "Mauritania" are discussing Jews in the Roman provinces of "Mauretania," which encompass the north of present-day Morocco and Algeria, not Mauritania proper. The Jewish people don't appear to have ever had much of a presence in what is now Mauritania. There isn't much material to expand the article with, just minor controversies regarding recent antisemitic statements and sentiments in the country, which I believe shouldn't be what makes up the article. Mooonswimmer 15:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: As per nominator. Strong delete: Fails WP:GNG, WP:RS and WP:V. Not just does this page contains antisemetic, proslavery and psyeudohistoric rhetoric that is potentially harmful, it is poorly sourced with one of the sources pointing to Wikipedia as its source (see here). Without the harmful commentary there's just nothing left for a standalone page. BlakeIsHereStudios (talk | contributions) 15:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete poorly sourced, anti-Semetic and pro-slavery rhetoric which shouldn't even be in the article, not to mention pseudohistory. One of the sources points to Wikipedia as its source (scroll down to the bottom). The Arabo-Berbers of present-day Mauritania in West Africa were immigrants to the that country, from what is now Morocco as per the nom's mention above. Mauritania in West Africa (or North West Africa), should not be confused with the historical province of Mauretania (Northern Africa), where the present-day country in West Africa takes its name, following the Arabo-Berber invasion and settlement in that area–several centuries later, and not in 70 CE. Delete the anti-Semetic and slavery commentary and there would be nothing left in this article, because there is nothing else that supports a stand-alone article. Article fails WP:GNG, WP:RS, and Wikipedia:Verifiability.Tamsier (talk) 18:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nkosana Makate[edit]

Nkosana Makate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Product of WP:BLP1E. Yes, the subject has been making the news in the past few months but this is all just 15 minutes of fame. WP:ATD, a redirect to Vodacom#"Please Call Me" would make sense. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Technology, Africa, and South Africa. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this case been in the news for years, not months. It has been extensively covered in WP:RS for that time. So the nomination description of it as “15 minutes of fame” is inaccurate. Makate may, or may not be notable in terms of WP:BLP1E but the case almost certainly is. Park3r (talk) 03:29, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Park3r, the case may be notable. However, I don't think Nkosana Makate is, the article is composed of this particular case only. Opening statement says "…is a South African who proposed the "Buzz" idea to Vodacom", no description nor WP:SIGCOV, and back to the nom, this is a clear BLP1E. Until relevant sources are brought to light, I think redirecting the article to Vodacom is the way to go. dxneo (talk) 04:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2005 Air Kasaï Antonov An-26B crash[edit]

2005 Air Kasaï Antonov An-26B crash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Accident barely demonstrates notability. Fails the general notability guideline, the event criteria and doesn't demonstrate any lasting effects. Accident barely has any coverage whatsoever. I've only been able to find three news channels covering it including two in french and one in english: NBC news; Congo Planète (French); AllAfrica (French). Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Embassy of Guinea, London[edit]

Embassy of Guinea, London (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article contains no content other than location and former location of the embassy. Lacking any secondary sources, only source is government listing of diplomatic missions. Fails WP:GNG. AusLondonder (talk) 19:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Sporting Clube da Praia players[edit]

List of Sporting Clube da Praia players (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Indiscriminate list of mostly non-notable people fails to meet the criteria defined by the WP:NLIST. Let'srun (talk) 15:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afro fusion[edit]

Afro fusion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.


Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374 No An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette No An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/ Yes Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/ No All of the article's material was copied from another blog No Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246 Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go No Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists No Article contains several quotations from Mango Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/ Yes Semi-indepedent Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

 Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
    1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([1])
    2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [2] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
    3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [3] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
    4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
    5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[4]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[5][6][7]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[8][9][10] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[11][12]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  • Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Bernadine okoro
    1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [13]
    2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
    3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [14], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
    4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
    5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[15][16] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[17][18][19]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[20]. Also, I find this statement broad
    “By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”
    For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[21]
    Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23].
    So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .
    2. "but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [24] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[25] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [26]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [27].
    3. Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.
    4. Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.
    5. The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).
    6. I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.
    2. "Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.
    3. The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.
    4. Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [28], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.
    5. As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [29][30][31] [32][33][34]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [35]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [36]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[37] [38] [39]
    2. Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [40] [41] and crossover [42] [43] [44] [45] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[46]
    3. If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?
    4. Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in like 3 sentences in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [47]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[48]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."
    5. As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlifekpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".
    6. In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].
    7. The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[49]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[50]
    As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[51][52][53] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [54][55][56].
    Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[57][58][59] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)
    2. There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [60][61][62][63], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.
    3. You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.
    4. Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [64]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.
    5. Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [65], [66] [67] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [68][69][70] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43
    6. Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
    As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.
    2. As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.
    3. It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Slashme: Can you please provide a link to page 67? I believe you have access to this book since you've read page 67. I am trying to read the page you claimed discusses the genre in "good detail". I can't access it on my end without paying a fee.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi Versace1608, here is a link to p.66, where the discussion of Afro Fusion starts --Slashme (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the link. I disagree with your claim that the book discusses the genre in good detail. As a matter of fact, the genre isn't discussed at all. The four paragraphs that make up the section "Developing Afro fusion" is primarily about GidiGidi MajiMaji and Eric Wainanina's respective albums (Ismarwa and Sawa Sawa). The author also stated that those two acts are significant figures in Kenya's Afro fusion scene.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 17:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree with your statement that "the genre isn't discussed at all". It talks about the institutional sponsors of Afro Fusion, the way that it's rooted in local culture, and the annual music festivals surrounding the genre. Saying that it's primarily about those two albums seems to me to be a strange mischaracterisation of the content. In fact, in the opening paragraph, the author says "Fostered by Nairobi's NGO sector and cosmopolitan middle class, and linked to the global 'world music' circuit, Kenyan Afro-fusion is marked by an aesthetic emphasis on live instrumentation over digitally programmed accompaniments, and the attempt to 'fuse' African aesthetics with Western popular music. It has thrived, as I will describe, on patronage from nongovernmental cultural institutions that find value in its underlying aim of cultivating a more modern 'Kenyan' sound." She then goes on to talk about these aspects in detail. This goes way beyond a simple mention of the topic, and absolutely supports the notability claim. Also, that section isn't the only part of the book that mentions the topic. It's referred to over and over again in discussions of the work of other artists. --Slashme (talk) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 16:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: This is an article about music. However, looking at the discussion per se, it looks like the normal "Nigeria vs Ghana", ..vs South Africa", etc. On a note, Afro fusion does exist but for the article, it has so many claims even the ones removed and it alleges or neither shows it was written from a personal point of view (just like fans of Cristiano Ronaldo and fans of Lionel Messi will do to both article). There is only one way out: deletion to neutrality and a fundamental rewrite which should pass AFC and being to NPP. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 17:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Slashme. There is sufficient coverage in WP:RS as per the sources cited by other editors, and the article meets our notability guidelines. However, I would suggest renaming to Afro fusion (music) to differentiate it from Afro fusion (cuisine) when created, as an editor noted above.Tamsier (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Tamsier, renaming will be discussed separately after this AfD is closed and if/when the cuisine is created. dxneo (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

George John Seaton[edit]

George John Seaton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence of notability. All the significant sources dealing with the topic are written by the subject. All others simply reference background story and not the subject. Fails WP:GNG . An earlier version was draftified because it lacked any credible claim to notability, so the same authored simply created this new version in mainspace without improving notability.  Velella  Velella Talk   15:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Africa, France, England, and South America.  Velella  Velella Talk   15:46, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - as well as the lack of notability, the whole thing reads like a school essay. Or maybe from a chat-bot. This is highlighted by the following comment in the lede: "This article explores George John Seaton's life as a prisoner, slave, and man. It will include researched documentation as well as information from his personal book, Isle of the Damned, to piece together the story of this man's intriguing life."--Gronk Oz (talk) 12:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It reads like a school essay because the person who wrote the article, Jeorgiaobrien, is a university student who made it for an assignment. Just putting that out there in case anyone else who comes across this doesn't know. Sadustu Tau (talk) 15:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I propose moving the article into the draftspace. As the user above noted, this is part of a student assignment, in which first-year college students are grappling with understanding the differences between primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. The article was prematurely moved to the mainspace and correctly flagged—but it can be turned into a feasible Wikipedia article because there is a relevant source base.
    Seaton’s notability primarily arises from the extensive reception of his autobiography, which occurred in two waves: 1) initial reception upon publication in the early 1950s, around the time Devil's Island ceased operations as a penal colony, by a largely Anglophone public and 2) the use of his autobiographical account in the contemporary historiography on French Guiana and related topics that reach from the treatment of prisoners across the French Empire to examples of queer sexuality during incarceration. In short, given that there is only a limited number of prisoners’ own accounts from their time in French Guiana (some of which have further been debunked as hoaxes), Seaton’s autobiography has become a standard historical source among scholars—and he, by extension, a model prisoner of sorts.
    I have advised the student to make the necessary edits to turn this article into a proper encyclopedic essay, and to restructure it around the significance of his autobiography, which can be properly verified with secondary sources. We would appreciate it if she received the opportunity to make these edits in the draftspace. Outcasts&Outlaws (talk) 17:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - as nominator, I have no problem with this being moved back to Draft. I would have done so myself had there not already been a Draft in existnce preventing the new version being draftified. It will therefore need an Admin to do the draftification. However, I or any other editor, will still have be convinced by the sourcing that this person is indeed notable and not simply a self publicist, before accepting it in Mainspace.  Velella  Velella Talk   17:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - as the only !voter, I am also happy with draftification.--Gronk Oz (talk) 23:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I am the author of this article. I am continuously working on the article, so it meets the notability requirements. There are no longer any direct quotes from Seaton's autobiography and any wording that may sound like an essay has been removed. Here is a list of secondary sources that speak directly of Seaton and are sourced throughout the article: Negros with Slaves by Jet Magazine, Words of the Week by Jet Magazine, Space in the Tropics by Peter Redfield (University of California Press), and Empire of the Underworld (Harvard University Press). Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I have been working on improving the article, there are now over 10 new sources that are all secondary sources and relate to George John Seaton. I have implemented many changes including formatting, word choice, and the removal of any primary source quotes. Please review this article once again. If you have more improvements you would like me to make, please visit my talk page. I will be happy to continue to make changes. After reviewing the article, if it meets notability requirements then I would love for this article to no longer be flagged for deletion. I am doing my best to follow Wikipedia's guidelines while also sharing a story of a man who should be remembered. Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 03:23, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change !vote to Keep - the changes described above tip the scales (just) in my opinion. I would still like to see the article's tone cleaned up to fix unsupported phrases like "notoriously one of the worst penal colonies of its time", "if imprisonment didn't kill a prisoner, then disease would", etc. and to spend less space discussing Papillon in two different sections. But I think this can be done in place rather that draftifying. --Gronk Oz (talk) 05:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - From a brief look at this article and its references, perhaps it could be retitled Isle of the Damned and be restructured to be about the book/s Isles and Scars - their reviews and reception, use by University of Michigan, comparisons, censorship, etc? It would of course include a potted bio of Seaton. Is there enough for WP:NBOOK? JennyOz (talk) 07:28, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for the feedback. I will speak with my professor about the suggestion and consider your idea. Best wishes, Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 15:50, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:58, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. This article has basically been rewritten over the past two weeks and we have an unbolded "Keep" from the article creator. I'd like to hear from others, especially the nominator, whether these changes made to the article affect your point of view of what should happen with it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment as the nominator, I still remain uncertain about notability. As indicated above, I would be content with draftification to allow for improvement. I don't have access to any of the sources added during the recent major revision, but from their context it appears that the content of the book has been used in historical analysis both about the prison and its treatment of prisoners and other topics. Had this article been about the book, this may well have been sufficiet to demonstrate notability, but since , in this case, notability dependends on demonstrating multiple reliable sources that discuss the subject, I cannot be sure that that has been achieved, especially as most of the claims to notability are bundled into a single short paragraph at the end. Those with access to the quoted sources may possibly disagree, in which case I would be content to defer to their better understanding.  Velella  Velella Talk   22:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand your uncertainty about the article's notability but the changes you first requested when you flagged my article for deletion have since been implemented. As for the accessibility of sources, nearly all of these sources come from publications made by recognized universities or from google books, etc. You should not have trouble accessing these sources if you wish to learn more. The only sources you may have trouble retrieving are the sources pulled from my university's archives. However, being that we are a research university, it is possible to access these upon reaching out to the university.
    We did in fact leave out any claim that Seaton's book is credible. This is because the book is not being used as a source in the article but is instead just being referenced. My professor and I felt that it was more scholarly to explain how the book has been used in case studies rather than trying to persuade readers that the book is credible.
    From your comment, it seems that your biggest issue with the article is the uncertainty that the sources are referencing Seaton himself. Most of these sources do speak directly of Seaton and were published after devil's island was closed in 1953. Seaton gained popularity for surviving the island which led to news coverage of him. These articles are all sourced in the article and as mentioned above they are public access if you wish to find them.
    As the nominator, please give specific examples of what you would like changed in order to ensure notability and I will do so. I want to once again emphasize that nearly all of these sources can be accessed by the public and are available online. This can reassure you that subject matter is being reported on directly and not the context surrounding him. Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 20:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment from a leaning-towards-a-Delete-!vote contributor: What's with the numerous assignments in academic institutions for students to "create a Wikipedia article"? Since when Wikipedia's criteria for article creation are the same as the criteria for academic papers? Such a practice endangers the objectivity of contributors evaluating the text as worthy of being in the encyclopaedia. I, for one, would perhaps hesitate to !vote for Deletion if that means the student's grading suffers! And we are essentially asked to do a supervising professor's job, when we assess a student's work.
P.S. As it happens, I find the subject lacking in independent notability on the basis of reliable sources. But the issue of academic papers flooding Wikipedia is more important. We should bear in mind this, for instance. -The Gnome (talk) 14:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. I am the creator of this article. As mentioned, I am a university student, and by no means an expert in writing encyclopedias. However, our class carefully trained with a Wikipedia representative from the Wikipedia Education Foundation (a group focused on building articles made by students). As well as help from our professor, who has a PhD in the topic, helped curate and edit our articles to meet Wikipedia standards. Since there has been issues with my particular article being granted publishing rights, she has stepped in to help me tremendously hoping to make this article go live.
Overall, our class is simply trying to share the stories of people who have been othered in history. A few of my sources are pulled from the University Library and Library Archives at Washington University in St. Louis. However, the rest of the sources are all available online and should be accessible to the public. I am unsure why accessing the sources has been an issue. Many of these sources have public access from esteemed Universities and others are published on google books, etc.
The original nomination for deletion was made due to the use of a primary source. This information has since been removed. My professor and I have added multiple new sources that are accessible through online databases and take the place of the primary source. As mentioned by the nominator (User:Velella), there is less emphasis on the book's notability. This was done on purpose, as we felt it was more scholarly to give facts about how the autobiography by Seaton has been used as case studies for prisons and prisoner homosexuality versus trying to make a biased claim that the book is credible. We also thought that including the credibility of the book was irrelevant to the article because there is no source usage of the book in the article any longer.
I would love more feedback for what changes you think this article may need. My class ends very quickly so I am hoping to have an article that is able to go live. Thanks. Jeorgiaobrien (talk) 20:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Was notable even before the new sources were added. Desertarun (talk) 17:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Africa Proposed deletions[edit]


Algeria[edit]

List of Algerian Ligue Professionnelle 1 broadcasters[edit]

List of Algerian Ligue Professionnelle 1 broadcasters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:NOTTVGUIDE applies here. The subjects are not described as a group, failing WP:LISTN. Contextes are there to claim 'channel x' brought out the right to voerages in 'country x', not to assert notability. Also, sources are primary sources, nothing but news announcements and none of those assert notability. Those arguing for a keep claiming how useful it is, shall be advised to refer to WP:USEFUL. SpacedFarmer (talk) 08:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Algerian Cup Final referees[edit]

Algerian Cup Final referees (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Irrelevant article of mostly non-notable people, which doesn't meet WP:GNG. We tend to only have articles like this for major events like FIFA World Cup referees, not for national cup tournaments like this one. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Algerian Cup semi-finals[edit]

Algerian Cup semi-finals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable topic. 'Algerian Cup semi-finals' is not independently notable outside of the Algerian Cup and an unlikely search term. Merging may not be an option since the whole article is unreferenced. Details of the semi-finals themselves seem to be already covered in individual season articles, although for example 1964–65 Algerian Cup is completely unreferenced as well. C679 04:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete This really is not about notability, season pages are okay for the cup and that covers each semi, this is really not in the WP:SCOPE of how to construct the football content on wikipedia. Govvy (talk) 09:28, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete don't need a separate articles for semi-finals, they can be covered in other existing articles like the parent article Algerian Cup or the season articles. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 17:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – Separate articles for finals are understandable, but not for semi-finals. Svartner (talk) 18:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MC El Bayadh Bus Crash[edit]

MC El Bayadh Bus Crash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Reviewed during NPP. Article about a bus crash. No wp:notability per the events SNG or GNG. Also per wp:not news. North8000 (talk) 13:16, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

<--

Algeria Proposed deletions[edit]

Please hide entire section when there are no articles nominated for WP:PROD -->


Angola[edit]

List of Girabola seasons[edit]

List of Girabola seasons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Per WP:NLIST and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. The list of seasons can already be found in the main article Girabola, another duplicate article being unnecessary. Svartner (talk) 09:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • No, Svartner doesn't advocate deletion of the individual seasons, just the overarching list - which adds exactly nothing to the category. Geschichte (talk) 16:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly, my question is whether there is a separate list if the main article already includes a list of seasons. Svartner (talk) 20:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Its unneeded. also kind of goes against WP:NOTDIRECTORY. The way the article is made, it may as well just be a category page. Shadow311 (talk) 19:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The seasons are listed in the template. If no other information is in the list article, it becomes pointless. Dream Focus 23:24, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 18:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and expand/improve, in-line with List of Premier League seasons etc. This is Morocco's Angola's top football competition. GiantSnowman 18:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (I am at abstained vote here.) This list could be more useful if done right. As GS pointed out we do have them. And @GiantSnowman: this is the Angolan league, not the Moroccan! :/ Govvy (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, getting Girabola mixed up with Botola! GiantSnowman 20:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete without prejudice - at the moment this is a duplicative, unnecessary article, but there's the potential for a better article here if someone wants to create something more detailed. SportingFlyer T·C 20:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Svartner, Shadow311, Dream Focus, Govvy, and SportingFlyer: I have started the process of converting into a proper list a la List of Premier League seasons, just need someone with time and knowledge to help... GiantSnowman 20:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Using RSSSF which lists all the champs... GiantSnowman 20:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ...and I've just noticed has pages for every individual season, such as 1979, 1980 etc. As such, if you still don't want to keep, please agree to draftify so I can work on it. GiantSnowman 20:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No problem with draftification, but I do hope it's more comprehensive than just what's on the Girabola page. SportingFlyer T·C 15:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ...which it would be if you check my edits to this article... GiantSnowman 20:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a big difference between the Premier League and the Angolan championship. The list of seasons is duplicated, as it is also included in the main article Girabola. Svartner (talk) 00:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Girabola#Girabola_participation_details list all the information doesn't it? Dream Focus 02:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That section is absolutely incomprehensible! I have deleted. GiantSnowman 20:39, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I'm with GiantSnowman here. This article needs work, but that is not a reason for deletion, especially if it not an obvious WP:TNT. This article has a lot of potential à la List of Premier League seasons, so it's not a TNT. Anwegmann (talk) 23:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 18:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Cameroon[edit]

Akuma Saningong[edit]

Akuma Saningong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Purely promotional and written by a UPE. - UtherSRG (talk) 10:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails WP:NSCIENTIST, other claims are spurious, nothing on Google that isn't press-related. BrigadierG (talk) 18:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — obviously promotional, not much more to be added. — Biruitorul Talk 20:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Puffery and made up creation. The article doesn't provide variable importance for inclusion, while begging the fact that it lacks context and SIGCOV for WP:NAUTHOR (probably self published books), WP:NSCIENTIST. Doesn't show the need for entry here. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 01:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, this is a single-purpose account. Biruitorul Talk 06:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete a UPE article filled with lots of refs that are mostly blogs/press-releases/non-RS entries (I deleted most of them but the blocked UPE returned under a different name to restore them). Several other of the UPEs creation are also at AfD (e.g. Iulia and Delia). The subject is not a notable scientist but they are an active speaker who needs a Wikipedia page to construct notability. Aszx5000 (talk) 21:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep | Article is not promotional and written in neutral voice and it meets and passes WP:GNG. Article is well researched and backed with secondary references. Anyone doubting should go and check and they aren’t press releases as purported. I happened to have stumbled across this article on the web and I am not the UPE who is claimed to have written the article and there is no proof for that. I have studied other articles of the alleged UPE which were elected for deletion and they weren’t deleted e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Bernstein. It was kept on merit. Why all this hating on Wikipedia? Articles should be kept on merit and in the case of this one it passes Wikipedia guidelines for WP:GNG, WP:NSCIENTIST and WP:NAUTHOR. I might be a single-purpose account because I had the urge to intervene for justice to be served. It shouldn’t infringe my rights not to comment and stand for justice and the truth. Let the facts and evidence speak for themselves. Visit the talk page of the subject in question, where other two seasoned editors and contributors have made comments in favour to keep the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Akuma_Saningong Sword-Emperor-dev (talk) 05:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Democratic Republic of the Congo[edit]

2005 Air Kasaï Antonov An-26B crash[edit]

2005 Air Kasaï Antonov An-26B crash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Accident barely demonstrates notability. Fails the general notability guideline, the event criteria and doesn't demonstrate any lasting effects. Accident barely has any coverage whatsoever. I've only been able to find three news channels covering it including two in french and one in english: NBC news; Congo Planète (French); AllAfrica (French). Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paulin Basinga[edit]

Paulin Basinga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose!
In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.
In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.
I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.
However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;
Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
    Back to deletion discussion! — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 16:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep There is sufficient coverage, and it does not matter which country's media covers it (or the language) as long as the refs ares reliable and verifiable, and there is sufficient coverage that meets our notability guidelines, and merits a stand-alone article, which this article does. Generalising and casting aspersions on a developing country's media is most unhelpful, and is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia, and its goal in fighting against Wikipedia:Systemic bias. We do not know whether subject paid for it or not, and without facts, we should be mindful of casting aspersions on the credibility of others. It it is most unhelpful, and I hope the nom strike out that comment in their nomination and the response to Safari Scribe. I totally agree with Safari Scribe. It is unwarranted and below the belt.Tamsier (talk)


Egypt[edit]

Beni Ebeid Stadium[edit]

Beni Ebeid Stadium (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No refs on the page for many years. Not seeing much which could be included however the sources may not be in English. JMWt (talk) 11:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. No located sources.
🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 15:07, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge and redirect to Beni Ebeid, the town it's in. The stadium isn't owned by the football club, they just operate there. The football club Beni Ebeid SC also needs to be merged into the town article. As it doesn't pass WP:SIGCOV, WP:GNG. Govvy (talk) 10:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Beni Ebeid SC as above; not even mentioned at the town article. GiantSnowman 19:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I sent Beni Ebeid SC to AfD, so now it's an inappropriate target! And it is mentioned in the town article now! :/ Govvy (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I think it needs fixing rather than deletion! Similar to what I've done to Beni Ebeid SC, I'll update this article one with new content in the nearest possible time. Ben5218 (talk) 14:37, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Ben5218 (talk) 10:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment thanks for finding these Ben5218 but a Facebook post and two pieces of coverage saying the name of the stadium is changing don’t make it notable. I still a merge and redirect to either the club or the town is best. Mccapra (talk) 14:45, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. GiantSnowman 17:59, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That Facebook post contains a video discussing the stadium's and club's history, though, and only one reference covers the name change, not two. Since my last comment here, another four references were added (I can find and add more easily, if needed), and I also added more content. This topic definitely passes WP:GNG now, in my opinion. Ben5218 (talk) 18:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak keep per the sources currently in the article. Decent enough coverage about an Egyptian topic. Geschichte (talk) 08:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 19:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Sources are one line mentions or unreliable. And I think I've been cyber attacked by one of the sources I clicked on.Tamsier (talk) 02:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt Proposed deletions[edit]


Ethiopia[edit]

Ethiopia Proposed deletions[edit]


Ghana[edit]

Emmanuel Kwasi Debrah[edit]

Emmanuel Kwasi Debrah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The subject is not notable, WP:REFBOMB with sources written by the subject or the company he works for, 95% of the sources emanated from JoyNews where he works. As seen [here] and [here, ]. There are even cases where the sources directly came from the subject as seen [here]. Apart from that, most of the sources are not Reliable and are not Independent Ibjaja055 (talk) 13:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All these anomalies are corrected Gyanford (talk) 10:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Kenya[edit]

Sarah Junior School[edit]

Sarah Junior School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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PROD countered. Per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES, articles about primary schools are only kept if they can be shown to meet WP:NORG. That is not the case here. Indeed, this is an article about a kindergarten. Utopes (talk / cont) 01:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Msumarini[edit]

Msumarini (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This is basically a procedural/WP:TNT nomination. This was plainly mass-created from GNS or one of its mirrors, and it has the same kinds of issues that GNIS has (see WP:GNIS for info on the latter}. We said we weren't going to do this any more, and yet here we are. For the "save all the dots" crew, the situation is complicated by the fact that the coordinates are not precise enough to compare this with maps, and searching reveals that there is a second Msumarini which apparently has been for whatever reason the subject of several international aid efforts— I say "apparently" because it's not absolutely clear which of the two places they are talking about. So potentially this would be a disambiguation, or about the other place, but at present I cannot verify whether not this is a real place or not. Kenyan info is probably better than some other places, but for example in Somalia with better location data we deleted a lot of places because there was no good evidence for their existence. And in the end it makes sense to delete the lot of these and have them created from better, reliable sources when someone comes across them. Mangoe (talk) 22:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Thought I'd blitzed all of these but evidently not... MIDI (talk) 06:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sigh. This is clearly a notable place, but it looks like there are up to three different villages called Msumarini and two in Kilifi county alone - one in Mtepeni ward and one in Adu ward, and then one in Hindi ward, Lamu. The vast majority are for the Mtepeni ward, though I have seen at least a couple for Adu ward (they say it is in a particular constituency.) These articles do not make a distinction between the two places and these places are both occasionally spelled Musumarini. So, yes, there should be an article here, but it should probably be a disambiguation - but there are plenty of reliable sources out there for at least the Mtepeni ward Msumarini, even though I can't confirm it necessarily passes WP:GEOLAND. Any further help would be appreciated. SportingFlyer T·C 00:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afro fusion[edit]

Afro fusion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.


Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374 No An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette No An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/ Yes Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/ No All of the article's material was copied from another blog No Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246 Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go No Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists No Article contains several quotations from Mango Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/ Yes Semi-indepedent Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

 Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
    1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([71])
    2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [72] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
    3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [73] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
    4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
    5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[74]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[75][76][77]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[78][79][80] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[81][82]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  • Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Bernadine okoro
    1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [83]
    2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
    3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [84], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
    4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
    5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[85][86] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[87][88][89]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[90]. Also, I find this statement broad
    “By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”
    For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[91]
    Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[92][93].
    So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .
    2. "but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [94] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[95] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [96]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [97].
    3. Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.
    4. Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.
    5. The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).
    6. I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.
    2. "Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.
    3. The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.
    4. Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [98], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.
    5. As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [99][100][101] [102][103][104]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [105]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [106]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[107] [108] [109]
    2. Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [110] [111] and crossover [112] [113] [114] [115] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[116]
    3. If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?
    4. Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in like 3 sentences in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [117]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[118]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."
    5. As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlifekpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".
    6. In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].
    7. The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[119]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[120]
    As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[121][122][123] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [124][125][126].
    Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[127][128][129] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)
    2. There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [130][131][132][133], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.
    3. You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.
    4. Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [134]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.
    5. Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [135], [136] [137] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [138][139][140] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43
    6. Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
    As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.
    2. As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.
    3. It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Slashme: Can you please provide a link to page 67? I believe you have access to this book since you've read page 67. I am trying to read the page you claimed discusses the genre in "good detail". I can't access it on my end without paying a fee.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi Versace1608, here is a link to p.66, where the discussion of Afro Fusion starts --Slashme (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the link. I disagree with your claim that the book discusses the genre in good detail. As a matter of fact, the genre isn't discussed at all. The four paragraphs that make up the section "Developing Afro fusion" is primarily about GidiGidi MajiMaji and Eric Wainanina's respective albums (Ismarwa and Sawa Sawa). The author also stated that those two acts are significant figures in Kenya's Afro fusion scene.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 17:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree with your statement that "the genre isn't discussed at all". It talks about the institutional sponsors of Afro Fusion, the way that it's rooted in local culture, and the annual music festivals surrounding the genre. Saying that it's primarily about those two albums seems to me to be a strange mischaracterisation of the content. In fact, in the opening paragraph, the author says "Fostered by Nairobi's NGO sector and cosmopolitan middle class, and linked to the global 'world music' circuit, Kenyan Afro-fusion is marked by an aesthetic emphasis on live instrumentation over digitally programmed accompaniments, and the attempt to 'fuse' African aesthetics with Western popular music. It has thrived, as I will describe, on patronage from nongovernmental cultural institutions that find value in its underlying aim of cultivating a more modern 'Kenyan' sound." She then goes on to talk about these aspects in detail. This goes way beyond a simple mention of the topic, and absolutely supports the notability claim. Also, that section isn't the only part of the book that mentions the topic. It's referred to over and over again in discussions of the work of other artists. --Slashme (talk) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 16:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: This is an article about music. However, looking at the discussion per se, it looks like the normal "Nigeria vs Ghana", ..vs South Africa", etc. On a note, Afro fusion does exist but for the article, it has so many claims even the ones removed and it alleges or neither shows it was written from a personal point of view (just like fans of Cristiano Ronaldo and fans of Lionel Messi will do to both article). There is only one way out: deletion to neutrality and a fundamental rewrite which should pass AFC and being to NPP. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 17:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Slashme. There is sufficient coverage in WP:RS as per the sources cited by other editors, and the article meets our notability guidelines. However, I would suggest renaming to Afro fusion (music) to differentiate it from Afro fusion (cuisine) when created, as an editor noted above.Tamsier (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Tamsier, renaming will be discussed separately after this AfD is closed and if/when the cuisine is created. dxneo (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Håvar Bauck[edit]

Håvar Bauck (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Bio appears promotional, lacks verification from reputable sources, and does not meet the General Notability Guidelines BoraVoro (talk) 11:05, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • KEEP - There seems to be more than enough references that are reliable and the notability criteria is met with significant, non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of each other to keep a posting about Håvar Bauck .I think that the page certainly is within the realm of the spirit of Wikipedia. Felixgfive (talk) 10:21, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • So this user claims a COI, but doesn't say with who, has just started their account, and has simply copied the notability language. Drmies (talk) 19:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Subject easily passes WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. Article is clearly written in WP:NPOV. He is also a recognized voice of the travel industry in Kenya. Does the nominator consider major sources like Nation Media, Capital Business or BusinessDay (WP:NGRS) not reliable because they are African? ANairobian (talk) 09:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Techcrunch is an obviously reputable and reliable source. Skift and Phocuswire (by Northstar Travel Group) are reliable international travel publications. Daily Nation and Business Day are two of the most reputable newspapers in Kenya and Nigeria respectively. Capital Business is also widely recognized as a reliable Kenyan business news source. Ventureburn (by Memeburn) is a major Pan-African entrepreneurship news source. 197.254.70.206 (talk) 09:29, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting due to concerns of canvassing. One account was registered after this AfD had begun, the other account is also only about two weeks old, and the third is an IP editor.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 13:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Nobody asked me to write or vote here. I'm a new editor, but I've been observing and learning for a while. I came across the AfD in WP:KE and recognized the name because I've read about him, read several of his articles, and also seen him speaking at conferences. Definitely notable in my opinion. I personally don't think the article reads like an advertisement, but since at least two editors disagree, I took the liberty to make some small edits, toning down the language a bit and moving some supporting references immediately next to the parts about "first in Africa". Hope that does it!ANairobian (talk) 19:11, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment appears to have been WP:REFBOMBED with churnalism, press releases, self-published works and interviews. Does not appear to have any reliable sourcing. Can those seeking to keep this provide two reliable sources? Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:17, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm expecting that this gets relisted again to be honest. I have similar concerns to you. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 14:25, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source 1 is fine and a RS, the rest are iffy. I'm not sure we're at notability. Oaktree b (talk) 15:46, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Too many promo sources, hardly any in RS. A Gsearch brings up the usual social media, venture funding PR items, not much in Gnews. I can't find enough SIGCOV that isn't PROMO. Oaktree b (talk) 15:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep few articles found notable but more to the company and as founder I find this one notable Norway article which is pretty much reliable, other 2 that discusses the founders can be generally accepted as secondary source, since company that he’s founded and of CEO has article over years. HarshalDhotre06 (talk) 13:25, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Make a policy based argument. It doesn't matter whether the company has an article or not, as notability is not inherited. WP:NINI Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 11:26, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for NINI I didn’t know about it yet. I’mm gonna make my comment in an hour based on NINI. HarshalDhotre06 (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:40, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak keep The editor did an amazing job writing the article with respect to neutrality, but one of the sources in particular concerns. This one [141]. Pretty strange! For a journalistic sit down interview, I would have expected a question and answer, with the questions on the article like this [142]. However, the article seems like it was written by the subject himself and handed to the publisher for printing. The article was evidently not written by the journalist profiled (hence the subject's use of single person throughout), and no sign of the journalist's input other than the brief intro.Tamsier (talk) 03:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Libya[edit]

Mauritius[edit]


Morocco[edit]

Anass Maksi (Business executive)[edit]

Anass Maksi (Business executive) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not a notable enough person for an article. Fails WP:NBIO - barely any coverage in reliable secondary sources. Kk.urban (talk) 17:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rachid Ghanimi[edit]

Rachid Ghanimi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I can't seem to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV on this player. This might be a WP:TOOSOON situation. In any case, it clearly fails WP:GNG. It was also draftified previously due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV, but the original creator moved the article to mainspace without changing anything. Anwegmann (talk) 03:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Nigeria[edit]

Paschal Ekeji[edit]

Paschal Ekeji (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The most I found was a few sentences of coverage here. JTtheOG (talk) 18:36, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Instablog9ja.com[edit]

Instablog9ja.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I'm not finding anything in a BEFORE search that establishes the notability of this blog/website. All I see online is the blogs own posts on other social media platforms like twitter and X. I also see to bloggish/churnalist-type stories where the writer is guessing or implying who the author of the blog may be. Fails GNG, NCORP and WP:WEBCRIT. Netherzone (talk) 16:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RanoGaz Company - LPG[edit]

RanoGaz Company - LPG (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence of any notability. Refs are not about the company, rather about people complaining about the high price of gas. Fails WP:GNG . There remains a draft (Draft:RanoGaz Company - LPG) which has had several reviews but remain unapproved. This new version appears to be an attempt to avoid review. Velella  Velella Talk   21:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carterson[edit]

Carterson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN. Sources are either PRs/promo puffs/Advertorials, WP:RUNOFTHEMILL both primary and independent of the subject. Non-notable musician. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Olanrewaju Smart[edit]

Olanrewaju Smart (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NPOL (WP:NSUBPOL), sources are mostly WP:ROUTINE and WP:RUNOFTHEMILL. In short, the offices being occupied by the subject do not guarantee notability under WP:NPOL and fail WP:GNG too. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tobi Mohammed[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Tobi Mohammed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Again, Fails WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO or any applicable WP:SNG even after previous AfD. This is mostly based on WP:INHERENT and WP:RUNOFTHEMILL. Below is my source assessment;

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2022/09/13/the-plug-topboy-entertainment-formalise-merger-announce-mohammed-as-managing-partner No Promotional piece about the merger of The Plug and TopBoy Entertainment No Even though ThisDay is reliable per WP:NGRS, No byline used in the piece. Promotional nature of this piece also affects its reliability ~ Mostly about the merger of The Plug and TopBoy Entertainment ✘ No
https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2022/10/16/oluwatobi-mohammed-the-young-entertainment-disruptor No Promotional piece that is not entirely independent No Ditto Yes ✘ No
https://tribuneonlineng.com/tobi-mohammed-a-journey-of-innovation-from-tech-to-entertainment/ No This source appears to be a promotional profile piece on Tobi Mohammed. No Even though per WP:NGRS, Nigerian Tribune is reliable, the promotional nature of this article affects its reliability. Yes ✘ No
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/11/from-dream-to-reality-the-inspiring-journey-of-topboy-entertainment/ No This source seems to be a promotional piece about TopBoy Entertainment. No Source is marginally reliable per WP:NGRS, and the promotional nature of this article affects its reliability No The article provides significant coverage of the journey of TopBoy Entertainment ✘ No
https://www.turntablecharts.com/news/1256 ~ This source is a promotional piece about Tobi Mohammed’s BlockParty series. Yes Even though the promo from here oozes, it does not affect this context. No This is about Tobi Mohammed’s BlockParty series and not Tobi Mohammed himself ✘ No
https://digimillennials.com/music/offstage-alhaji-popping/ No No No byline used in piece and reads promotional No ✘ No
https://socialmediaweeklagos2020.sched.com/speaker/tobi27 No This source is a profile of Tobi Mohammed from the Social Media Week Lagos 2020 event. No Promotional profile Yes ✘ No
https://dailypost.ng/2023/06/09/tobi-mohammed-shares-invaluable-insights-on-soft-power/ No Obvious sponsored content No Even though Daily Post is reliable, this is an obvious sponsored content Yes ✘ No
https://notjustok.com/article/afrobeats-live-and-awards-power-players-2019/ No No No byline used No Not specifically about the subject ✘ No
https://www.turntablecharts.com/magazine/3rd/57 Yes Ditto ~ No Ditto ✘ No
https://www.turntablecharts.com/news/1184 Yes Ditto ~ No Ditto ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: We had this about a year ago, here we are again, still not notable. The source chart is overly generous with a few sources, but I agree it's a !delete, this is PROMO. Oaktree b (talk) 23:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Entertainment, and Management. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete looks like promotion per sources provided. No deep coverage by independent sources. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The subject of this article has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources. Some of the sources (ThisDay) cited in the article are not independent of him and others (The Nation newspaper) are promotional to say the least. The awards he has won or been nominated for aren't notable.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 17:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Evangeline Wiles[edit]

Evangeline Wiles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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8-year orphaned permastub on a "technology entrepreneur" with a single middling reference. BD2412 T 20:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kent Edunjobi[edit]

Kent Edunjobi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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An article about an individual that doesn't meet out general notability guidelines for inclusion of musicians, actors and as the case may be. The sources doesn't seem to be significantly covered and per se, have more of PR and paid writing. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 09:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Unaegbu[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Jeff Unaegbu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I came about this article during clean up and saw it's contains a bit vague and non verifiable content. Taking into cleaning up, I became tired at the line seeing almost if not all the sources lacks editorial guidelines, perhaps doesn't go with our policy and guidelines for reliable sources.

On the other hand, apart from the quality percentage of primary sources linking to book that were self published in the platforms such as Amazon, etc., the article generally doesn't meet WP:GNG, no WP:SIGCOV, and it contains a bit hoaxes that were made (those like references/acclaims which I have removed when cleaning part of the article). The article in general doesn't conform with Wikipedia's inclusion for authors, journalist too—since he edited a magazine and has written for some magazines per the article. Lacks verifiable source and seem looking like a advert/promotional/vaguely constructed source, and more.

The books he wrote doesn't meet our guidelines for books, so we may try redirecting or WP:PRESERVE albeit there is nothing to be preserved here. I also discovered the previous AFD that reads 'no consensus', and it seems there were no improvement or rather say; the previous AFD seeking for clean up which I've did to some part and found no substantial need for the inclusion of this article. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Tedja[edit]

Stephen Tedja (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Poorly sourced BLP on a footballer that only ever played one game. In my Arabic searches, I found Al-Sharq, a trivial mention, Kooora, which is no better, and this transfer announcement, which contains no significant detail. No sign of any WP:SIGCOV or even a passing of WP:SPORTBASIC #5. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 23:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adeseha Wuraola Becky[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Adeseha Wuraola Becky (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The subject of this article fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. She has not starred in a single notable film; a Google search of her doesn't show her being discussed in reliable secondary sources. Most of the sources cited in the article are primary sources that involve the subject granting interviews to several publications. The article was previously deleted via an afd discussion, which can be seen here.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 22:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paulin Basinga[edit]

Paulin Basinga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose!
In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.
In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.
I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.
However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;
Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
    Back to deletion discussion! — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 16:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep There is sufficient coverage, and it does not matter which country's media covers it (or the language) as long as the refs ares reliable and verifiable, and there is sufficient coverage that meets our notability guidelines, and merits a stand-alone article, which this article does. Generalising and casting aspersions on a developing country's media is most unhelpful, and is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia, and its goal in fighting against Wikipedia:Systemic bias. We do not know whether subject paid for it or not, and without facts, we should be mindful of casting aspersions on the credibility of others. It it is most unhelpful, and I hope the nom strike out that comment in their nomination and the response to Safari Scribe. I totally agree with Safari Scribe. It is unwarranted and below the belt.Tamsier (talk)

Afro fusion[edit]

Afro fusion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.


Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374 No An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette No An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/ Yes Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/ No All of the article's material was copied from another blog No Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246 Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go No Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists No Article contains several quotations from Mango Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/ Yes Semi-indepedent Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

 Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
    1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([143])
    2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [144] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
    3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [145] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
    4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
    5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[146]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[147][148][149]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[150][151][152] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[153][154]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  • Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Bernadine okoro
    1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [155]
    2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
    3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [156], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
    4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
    5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[157][158] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[159][160][161]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[162]. Also, I find this statement broad
    “By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”
    For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[163]
    Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[164][165].
    So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .
    2. "but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [166] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[167] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [168]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [169].
    3. Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.
    4. Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.
    5. The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).
    6. I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.
    2. "Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.
    3. The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.
    4. Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [170], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.
    5. As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [171][172][173] [174][175][176]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [177]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [178]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[179] [180] [181]
    2. Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [182] [183] and crossover [184] [185] [186] [187] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[188]
    3. If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?
    4. Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in like 3 sentences in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [189]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[190]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."
    5. As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlifekpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".
    6. In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].
    7. The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[191]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[192]
    As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[193][194][195] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [196][197][198].
    Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[199][200][201] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)
    2. There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [202][203][204][205], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.
    3. You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.
    4. Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [206]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.
    5. Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [207], [208] [209] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [210][211][212] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43
    6. Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
    As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.
    2. As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.
    3. It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Slashme: Can you please provide a link to page 67? I believe you have access to this book since you've read page 67. I am trying to read the page you claimed discusses the genre in "good detail". I can't access it on my end without paying a fee.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi Versace1608, here is a link to p.66, where the discussion of Afro Fusion starts --Slashme (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the link. I disagree with your claim that the book discusses the genre in good detail. As a matter of fact, the genre isn't discussed at all. The four paragraphs that make up the section "Developing Afro fusion" is primarily about GidiGidi MajiMaji and Eric Wainanina's respective albums (Ismarwa and Sawa Sawa). The author also stated that those two acts are significant figures in Kenya's Afro fusion scene.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 17:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree with your statement that "the genre isn't discussed at all". It talks about the institutional sponsors of Afro Fusion, the way that it's rooted in local culture, and the annual music festivals surrounding the genre. Saying that it's primarily about those two albums seems to me to be a strange mischaracterisation of the content. In fact, in the opening paragraph, the author says "Fostered by Nairobi's NGO sector and cosmopolitan middle class, and linked to the global 'world music' circuit, Kenyan Afro-fusion is marked by an aesthetic emphasis on live instrumentation over digitally programmed accompaniments, and the attempt to 'fuse' African aesthetics with Western popular music. It has thrived, as I will describe, on patronage from nongovernmental cultural institutions that find value in its underlying aim of cultivating a more modern 'Kenyan' sound." She then goes on to talk about these aspects in detail. This goes way beyond a simple mention of the topic, and absolutely supports the notability claim. Also, that section isn't the only part of the book that mentions the topic. It's referred to over and over again in discussions of the work of other artists. --Slashme (talk) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 16:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: This is an article about music. However, looking at the discussion per se, it looks like the normal "Nigeria vs Ghana", ..vs South Africa", etc. On a note, Afro fusion does exist but for the article, it has so many claims even the ones removed and it alleges or neither shows it was written from a personal point of view (just like fans of Cristiano Ronaldo and fans of Lionel Messi will do to both article). There is only one way out: deletion to neutrality and a fundamental rewrite which should pass AFC and being to NPP. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 17:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Slashme. There is sufficient coverage in WP:RS as per the sources cited by other editors, and the article meets our notability guidelines. However, I would suggest renaming to Afro fusion (music) to differentiate it from Afro fusion (cuisine) when created, as an editor noted above.Tamsier (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Tamsier, renaming will be discussed separately after this AfD is closed and if/when the cuisine is created. dxneo (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fredrick Nwabufo[edit]

Fredrick Nwabufo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:MILL journalist, non-notable. Broc (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Journalism and Nigeria. Broc (talk) 09:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Fredrick Nwabufo is Nigerian Journalist who have constantly conversed for good governance, improved security and commenting on national issues using journalism as well being a columnist on major National newspaper in Nigeria as a tool to disseminate his constant call for good governance and Patriotism. He is also currently the Senior Special Assistant to President Bola Tinubu on Public engagement where he is saddled with the responsibility of interfacing between the government and the Nigerian public.
    I believe this article deserve a place on Wikipedia.
    Thanks. AromeArome (talk) 22:01, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @AromeArome How does this meet WP:NJOURNALIST or WP:NPOL? Broc (talk) 13:18, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 13:42, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Seems to have had a reasonable amount of coverage to meet WP:GNG. He's also a senior advisor to the Nigerian president, so not really fair to call him a "run of the mill" journalist. Article needs NPOV cleanup, though. AusLondonder (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 16:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, agree with what AusLondoner said above. Does need to be better when it comes to NPOV. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semzi[edit]

Semzi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG or WP:NPRODUCER. Sources are either passing mentions, interviews, PRs, or not even mentioning the subject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep: I'm almost certain the award nominations are notable, but we still need better sourcing for more biographical information. Oaktree b (talk) 15:25, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    More research would be done to support article with more sourcing for biographical information. The subject is quite a notable individual with just probably limited press publications ReoMartins (talk) 18:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @ReoMartins Well, now you’re taking. As far as I know, there are a lot of notable people in real life who can’t a Wikipedia entry because they don’t meet the necessary Wikipedia notability criteria. Wikipedia’s notability is not exactly real world notability. The current status of this article doesn’t meet up, not that they’re not notable or influential in real life. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The subject does not meet any criteria outlined in WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. None of the sources cited in the article actually discuss the subject. His nominations at the Beatz Awards aren't enough to justify a stand-alone article.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 15:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep: I agree with Oaktree B that this is a weak keep due to the award nominations. His other sources are weak.Maxcreator (talk) 03:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify: and mark as promised. Majority of the sources in the article doesn't meet SIGCOV and while the awards merits notability: it's still not much for a standalone entry on Wikipedia. I will remove some sources that didn't add to notability. For my vote (if draftified) can be marked as "promising", since there is a partial way to notability in the future! Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 20:40, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/02/bad-boy-timz-is-one-of-nigerias-best-singers-ive-worked-with-semzi/amp/ Yes Was talking about the subject Yes Vanguard is reliable per WP:NGRS ~ Much like an about music interview ~ Partial
https://guardian.ng/saturday-magazine/weekend-beats/producing-songs-for-davido-mayorkun-the-highlight-of-my-career-so-far-semzi/ Yes Ditto Yes Guardian Nigeria is reliable per WP:NGRS No Normally, Weekend Beats sounds like PR ✘ No
https://the49thstreet.com/49th-exclusive-semzi/ Yes Above No Blog sites No Interview and blog post ✘ No
https://pan-african-music.com/en/nigerian-producers-2022/ ~ A list that mentions articles, more of featuring, no PR here ~ See editorial No List ✘ No
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/review-dj-consequence-vibes-from-the-future/jhle44r No No mention Yes Per WP:NGRS No No mention ✘ No
https://culturecustodian.com/bad-boy-timzs-mj/ No No mention Yes Ditto No No mention ✘ No
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2020/11/nicki-minaj-nas-ifeanyi-adeleke-feature-on-davidos-a-better-time-album/ No No metion Yes Per above No No mention of the subject ✘ No
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/mayorkun-features-victony-on-holy-father/jbrp0lg No Ditto Yes See above No No mention ✘ No
https://www.okayafrica.com/joeboy-drops-new-music-album/ No No mention Yes Okay Africa is reliable No Applied same as above ✘ No
https://www.morebranches.com/omah-lay-couples-with-more-emotions-on-the-deluxe-version-of-boy-alone/ No No mention No Not a reliable source, blog or PR No Same as above ✘ No
https://guardian.ng/life/listen-ajebo-hustlers-featuring-fave-in-love/ No Mention! Yes Why not? No More like PR—get away magazine mention; just mention ✘ No
https://culturecustodian.com/bad-boy-timz-serves-new-visuals-for-faya-from-empires-where-we-come-from-vol-1-compilation-album/ No Passing mention Yes Per WP:NGRS No Inherent mention ✘ No
https://www.max1023.fm/boy-spyce-releases-new-single-relationship/ No Les or no mention Yes Max FM is a Lagos based television channel No Inherent notability only on Boy Source ✘ No
https://culturecustodian.com/no-bad-boy-no-party-highlights-significant-moments-in-bad-boy-timzs-journey/ No Passing mention Yes Culture custodian is a reliable source No Still on production. Inherent notability ✘ No
https://soundcity.tv/afropop-sensation-bad-boy-timz-unveils-debut-album-no-bad-boy-no-party/ No Focuses on Bad Boy Time, a Nigerian artist Yes Sound City TV is a Nigerian television music channel No Focus lacking on the subject ✘ No
https://www.pulse.ng/entertainment/music/victony-features-14-artists-on-new-song-ohema/8988dbp No Passing mention Yes Like above No Doesn't meet notability ✘ No
https://randr.ng/nominations-list-the-beatz-award-2021/ No List No Rhythm and Rhyme is a blog site No List ✘ No
https://thebeatzawards.com/winners-perfecto/ ~ List Yes For the award but not for other citations No Being nominated doesn't mean notability. Per WP:ENT, the subject must have been nominated multiple times of a major award ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
  • Delete: After analysis of the source above, I was convinced of the many "passing mentions", "no mention" and more generated in citing sources relating to PR. Nothing to draftify again. It doesn't meet WP:THREE for sources, WP:GNG and WP:PRODUCER. Each of the sources either mention, or not at all, or about a music one of an artist he had worked for previously. Delete is the "best" alternative. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 13:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In one of the discussions and sources, it submits an evidence about this act who just recently co-produced a track that has over ten credible and notable artistes from Sub-Sahara Africa featured. These artistes have their wiki pages, I believe the professional who takes up the task to fuse these different acts into a single musical project is worthy of an article on Wikipedia as well. ReoMartins (talk) 13:19, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ReoMartins It is imperative for you to know that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason for you to think an article should be kept. You should also importantly see WP:INHERITED. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:08, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:19, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liz, there is already a consensus here if by analysis of the arguments above. Isn't see the reason for relisting. Most importantly, the keep isn't strong enough or showed how the article meets inclusion. The source table can also be reviewed to see blatant addition of sources that doesn't mention the article. (Just a 'simpler' suggestion. ) — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 09:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SafariScribe Hehe, if I was an administrator, I would have relisted this discussion too, so don't worry, Liz made the right decision. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Vanderwaalforces, Sure. It's just that Liz doesn't take time analysing such deletions. Welp, it's good getting clearer consensus. — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 14:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Working with subjects that pass GNG is not enough to provide notability. While I see subject having some nominations, I fail to see WP:GNG or WP:NPRODUCER here by secondary sources.Tumbuka Arch (talk) 13:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mazakuka mosque shooting[edit]

Mazakuka mosque shooting (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable crime, no sustained coverage beyond the sequence of events. Wikipedia is not a repository of news stories. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Given the political situation in Nigeria, this almost certainly can be selectively merged/redirected somewhere (and given the relatively high death toll and the fact it's terrorism I feel it should be noted, somewhere, though not as its own article) however there is not enough detail in the article itself for me to suggest a target. Hm. I'll look into that later. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No lasting coverage to meet WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 10:07, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Satisfies WP:GNG. Seventeen deaths is significant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The number of deaths is not a criterion for notability and needs lasting coverage to meet WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 22:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Say that about any such attack in a western country and you'd be laughed out of court! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:47, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As an admin you should know it's not a criterion. Secondly, WP:NOTNEWS overrides GNG, otherwise every event reported in the news would get an article. Have you found any lasting coverage? LibStar (talk) 22:22, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Really? WP:SYSTEMIC isn't a criterion now? I beg to differ. And since when does anything override GNG? -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:47, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There was a fire near my home that was reported in the media, it may satisfy GNG but it is definitely a case of not news. Have you found any evidence of lasting coverage of this shooting? Did you bother to look? LibStar (talk) 08:23, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This article may meet GNG but consensus is showing NOTNEWS. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 Ujjain rape case. LibStar (talk) 08:27, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Relevant how? A single rape against the multiple murder of seventeen people. Both horrendous but not comparing like with like. -- Necrothesp (talk) 20:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    knowing you, you would argue GNG in this rape case. Have you found any evidence of lasting coverage of this shooting? LibStar (talk) 22:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    How about this shooting? 2023 Beverly Crest shooting, meets GNG but NOTNEWS applies. LibStar (talk) 23:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I take it from you avoiding the question of finding lasting coverage of this shooting that you did a thorough search and could not find anything. Or you'll invent some sort of excuse. If 17 deaths is significant, is 2 or 3 deaths insignificant? Or if you can point to a notability criteria that grants notability for 17 deaths. Thanks in advance. LibStar (talk) 08:23, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    knowing you, you would argue GNG in this rape case. You don't know me. Stop making incorrect assumptions and WP:AGF. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:18, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Know you? I think to clarify I know your voting intentions to always vote keep. LibStar (talk) 03:59, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Have you actually found lasting coverage to meet WP:EVENT? It is extremely disturbing that you continually avoid this question. The Beverly Crest shooting got deleted as per NOTNEWS even though it might have met GNG. LibStar (talk) 09:29, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I also refer to WP:SUSTAINED which also says we don't create articles on news events. LibStar (talk) 11:32, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to 2021 in Nigeria. If we end up with WP:SUSTAINED coverage in the future, we can always spin this back out. -- asilvering (talk) 03:55, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 21:58, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. There is no consensus here, there is even more than one Merge/Redirect target article mentioned here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nigeria proposed deletions[edit]

Nigeria miscellany for deletion[edit]


Rwanda[edit]

Paulin Basinga[edit]

Paulin Basinga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears PROMO. I don't see articles about this individual, only interviews or use of him as an expert on xyz health topic in various media. Odd that all sourcing here is from Nigeria, but none in the home country, possible "pay to publish" as we see typically in Nigerian media. I have my concerns, bringing ti AfD to discuss. Oaktree b (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I oppose!
In the beginning, I read about him and his works. For clarification, it may seem to be promo but factually it is not.
In facts, connectively, I read that in the home country he was a university lecturer, researcher and consultant. These can be limits to his articles other than interviews or use of him as an expert. But I considered it notable because he featured on international articles including those of World Bank and BMGF. It is referenced that later on, he has featured on other institutions such as Global Citizen and UGHE.
I do not see any problem with sources from Nigeria because based on reliable sources, it shows that his work in leadership role at BMGF were about Africa and the biggest office there was in Nigeria.
However, If we test him in Rwanda, below are some articles about him but there are in Kinyarwanda;
Thanks. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 18:15, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oaktree b, a drive-by comment: are you insinuating that "pay-to-publish" determines the nature of Nigeria media. I can't see much coverage if not two from Nigerian source. Don't you think it's below the belt?
    Back to deletion discussion! — Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 08:18, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure, we see it all too often here in AfD; Nigerian and Indian media seem to have a history of publishing iffy articles on people with no relation to the country. When I see an article that's only sourced to Nigerian media when the subject doesn't have a connection to the country (or a partial connection), it's a red flag. Oaktree b (talk) 14:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I never knew the story about Nigerian and Indian media, and I think we should not easily globalize because from this subject, mathematically, the sources from Nigerian media are less than 30%. 6eeWikiUser (talk) 11:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 16:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep There is sufficient coverage, and it does not matter which country's media covers it (or the language) as long as the refs ares reliable and verifiable, and there is sufficient coverage that meets our notability guidelines, and merits a stand-alone article, which this article does. Generalising and casting aspersions on a developing country's media is most unhelpful, and is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia, and its goal in fighting against Wikipedia:Systemic bias. We do not know whether subject paid for it or not, and without facts, we should be mindful of casting aspersions on the credibility of others. It it is most unhelpful, and I hope the nom strike out that comment in their nomination and the response to Safari Scribe. I totally agree with Safari Scribe. It is unwarranted and below the belt.Tamsier (talk)

Rwanda proposed deletions[edit]


Senegal[edit]


Somalia[edit]

Somali Inside News[edit]

Somali Inside News (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No notability upon WP:BEFORE. Doesn't meet GNG or NME 𝓡𝔂𝓭𝓮𝔁 13:47, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Haramad Special Police Force[edit]

Haramad Special Police Force (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This was just accepted via AfC (see User_talk:Bkissin#Haramad_Special_Police_Force but Bkissin wasn't aware of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Abdiaziizho/Archive. It is not technically a G5 although I read it as such, so bringing it here for more eyes. Would not object to a redirect to Somali_Police_Force#Haramad_Special_Police_Force although that is unsourced. I don't know if any editors here who read Somali but please feel free to ping them here without a canvassing concern as there is literally nothing but the above and some mirrors in an English source search. Star Mississippi 23:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Law, Organizations, Police, and Somalia. Star Mississippi 23:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete: Close enough to G5 for me. Frankly, we should put a note on a sock blocked's drafts so that they don't come up like this. Or delete them when blocking. - UtherSRG (talk) 01:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge/Redirect per nomination. Also to add on sockpuppet (re)creation by sockpuppets I'd leave the draft open to catch newer sockpuppets.--A09|(talk) 20:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Concar[edit]

David Concar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lacking sufficient in-depth coverage in secondary sources to demonstrate notability. Sources are purely mentions of his appointments. Fails WP:NBIO. AusLondonder (talk) 07:09, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Jetways Airlines Fokker 50 crash[edit]

2024 Jetways Airlines Fokker 50 crash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Per WP:NOTNEWS. No evidence of lasting coverage. Not notable. PROD template was removed with ZERO improvement. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 17:08, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Aviation, and Somalia. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge/redirect to 2024 in aviation Kvng (talk · contribs) left clear feedback on why the PROD was removed; "Removed PROD tag: Deletion contested, consider merge or redirect to 2024 in aviation as preferred WP:ATD". They clearly felt that was better than having an article deleted and you should take their advice rather than dismissing it as 'zero improvement' because they obviously feel the same in that it shouldn't be its own article. Edit summaries are not there to just test your typing and should be read, not dismissed. Nate • (chatter) 20:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You don't get it. Even if you merge some of the content, this SHOULD be deleted.

    Edit summaries are not there to just test your typing and should be read, not dismissed

    I know what edit summaries do. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 20:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — routine coverage without lasting effects so NOTNEWS. I have no objection to merging/redirecting the article. Toadette (Let's talk together!) 20:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Delete': as nom. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 20:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reverted; we do not allow duplicate votes, and the third opinion will agree (and I certainly did not accuse you of socking). Do not do this again, and assume good faith. Nate • (chatter) 22:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I didn't say you did. I said I wasn't. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 22:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The third opinion agreed with me. Let's keep this unstruck. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 18:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Delete as nom" !votes are common, I see no reason to strike this (and have thus unstruck it). Rosbif73 (talk) 06:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Duplicate votes (and triple votes, etc.) are always struck. Your deletion nomination is your "vote". We don't allow duplicate votes at any deletion discussions. This is common knowledge for editors who regularly participate at AFDs. Do not "unstrike" it. This has nothing to do with sockpuppetry it's because nominators are not allowed to vote twice. Liz Read! Talk! 23:23, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Go ahead. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 02:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Btw it's a !vote thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 14:18, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge/redirect to 2024 in aviation as per original response to the PROD. No evidence of lasting coverage but a redirect could still be useful as this incident did get coverage in primary sources. Esolo5002 (talk) 22:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: a summary of the crash is already on 2024 in aviation but there's nothing to merge as mentions on the year in aviation are always kept brief. A redirect would not be useful, and indeed non-notable crashes are often removed from the year in aviation pages. Rosbif73 (talk) 06:20, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No point in redirecting to 2024 in aviation if in the end the topic doesn't have an article.
Fails WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE and WP:SUSTAINED. WP:NOTNEWS. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 09:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Redirect not necessary as a fairly unlikely search term. Lacking significant coverage in secondary sources. AusLondonder (talk) 09:27, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    i think it would be better to have it be a merge/redirect due to it being notable enough to be on 2024 in aviation but not notable enough for its own article mainly due to its lack of coverage outside of some sources. IDKUggaBanga (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to weigh Deletion vs. a Merge/Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: I also would have PROD this, non-notable incident. Little to no coverage, very little long-term effects. Oaktree b (talk) 04:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Even redirecting to 2024 in aviation won't help. Has no significant coverage from secondary sources. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 13:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletions[edit]


South Africa[edit]

Oupa Mthiyane[edit]

Oupa Mthiyane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Note that he is more commonly known by Mandisi Mthiyane, which seems to be his legal name. JTtheOG (talk) 18:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paschal Ekeji[edit]

Paschal Ekeji (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The most I found was a few sentences of coverage here. JTtheOG (talk) 18:36, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Siviwe Mpondo[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Siviwe Mpondo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. Article was previously nominated in a WP:BUNDLE, which was closed as a procedural keep. JTtheOG (talk) 19:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sipho Nofemele[edit]

Sipho Nofemele (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I searched using both Sipho and Siphosenkosi as his first name. JTtheOG (talk) 19:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Teunis Nieuwoudt[edit]

Teunis Nieuwoudt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found lots of trivial mentions, especially from 2015 to 2018, but nothing substantial. JTtheOG (talk) 19:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christo Joubert[edit]

Christo Joubert (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am having a hard time finding anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 20:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stevie Meyer[edit]

Stevie Meyer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nkosana Makate[edit]

Nkosana Makate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Product of WP:BLP1E. Yes, the subject has been making the news in the past few months but this is all just 15 minutes of fame. WP:ATD, a redirect to Vodacom#"Please Call Me" would make sense. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Technology, Africa, and South Africa. dxneo (talk) 00:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this case been in the news for years, not months. It has been extensively covered in WP:RS for that time. So the nomination description of it as “15 minutes of fame” is inaccurate. Makate may, or may not be notable in terms of WP:BLP1E but the case almost certainly is. Park3r (talk) 03:29, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Park3r, the case may be notable. However, I don't think Nkosana Makate is, the article is composed of this particular case only. Opening statement says "…is a South African who proposed the "Buzz" idea to Vodacom", no description nor WP:SIGCOV, and back to the nom, this is a clear BLP1E. Until relevant sources are brought to light, I think redirecting the article to Vodacom is the way to go. dxneo (talk) 04:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Linda Thwala[edit]

Linda Thwala (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found were transactional announcements (1, 2). JTtheOG (talk) 21:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Johan Fritz[edit]

Johan Fritz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 21:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marcelle Slabbert[edit]

Marcelle Slabbert (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zwartbosch Private Nature Reserve[edit]

Zwartbosch Private Nature Reserve (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence of notability, tagged since 2019 Greenman (talk) 10:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Leighton van Wyk[edit]

Leighton van Wyk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clinton Theron[edit]

Clinton Theron (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG. All that comes up in my searches are trivial mentions in match reports and lineup announcements. JTtheOG (talk) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rinus Bothma[edit]

Rinus Bothma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 04:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Luke Rossouw[edit]

Luke Rossouw (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG. All that comes up in my searches are trivial mentions in match reports and lineup announcements. JTtheOG (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Mente[edit]

Paul Mente (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union referee, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 19:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Griffin Colby[edit]

Griffin Colby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union referee, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 18:57, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Luan Nieuwoudt[edit]

Luan Nieuwoudt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 02:56, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bader Pretorius[edit]

Bader Pretorius (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Riaan Engelbrecht[edit]

Riaan Engelbrecht (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Not to be confused with the author of the same name. JTtheOG (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 18:13, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phumza Mntungwa[edit]

Phumza Mntungwa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African cricketer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sihle Magongoma[edit]

Sihle Magongoma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African cricketer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun (talk) 19:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chaney Willemse[edit]

Chaney Willemse (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 15:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tythan Adams[edit]

Tythan Adams (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cavarrone 15:24, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chadley Wenn[edit]

Chadley Wenn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby union, and South Africa. JTtheOG (talk) 18:18, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Griffons (rugby union) where the subject is already mentioned. ~Kvng (talk) 14:18, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't see this as a suitable redirect, as linking to a current squad (which he might not be part of next season) isn't a good long term option in my opinion. If there was a list of Griffons players article I'd suggest that, but we don't have such lists. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's a trade off between supporting a possible search term today and creating future astonishment. I'm going to leave my !vote as it is because right now I care more about today. ~Kvng (talk) 20:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to settle view on a possible Redirect as an ATD.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Does not appear to meet GNG, and no suitable longterm redirects are available. JoelleJay (talk) 21:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ewart Potgieter[edit]

Ewart Potgieter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found a transactional announcement, as well as coverage of an alleged criminal incident in Spain (1, 2, etc.), but nothing substantial. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Amiras[edit]

Michael Amiras (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found this transactional announcement and this interview. JTtheOG (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:50, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 19:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afro fusion[edit]

Afro fusion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail. All of the article's sources involve artists self-describing their music as Afro-fusion via press releases and interviews. The page creator gathered tons of random sources that mention the term "Afro fusion" and piece them together to create the article. Note to closing administrator: This discussion needs adequate time and my hope is that enough participants contribute to the discussion. Let me also add that the article contains false information. The page creator claims that the genre was "developed in South Africa" and "universalized by Freshlyground". However, the source cited to support this info doesn't state any of this. As a matter of fact, the source states that Freshlyground's style of music is unofficially called Afro fusion and that it "contains elements of traditional South African music with blues, jazz and a spoonful of indie rock".

Here are a few sources from the article. I created the table below to show that none of the article's sources discuss the music genre. The table isn't complete but if you go through each source, you will see that none of them discuss the music genre.


Source assessment table: prepared by User:Versace1608
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.nme.com/features/music-interviews/bnxn-afrofusion-superstar-interview-wizkid-burna-boy-3512374 No An interview BNXN granted to NME. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just that the artist makes said genre. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2023-10-02-afro-fusion-star-siphokazi-chats-music-hiatus-and-new-project-in-the-pipeline/#google_vignette No An interview Siphokazi granted to Times Live. Article doesn't discuss the Afro-fusion genre, just mentions it in its title Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://mshale.com/2013/02/01/freshlyground-refreshing-music-hailing-south-africa/ Yes Makes mention of the band's members and stated that the band's music has been dubbed Afro-fusion. Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://web.archive.org/web/20240409204623/https://newsghana.com.gh/villy-is-a-nigerian-afro-fusion-and-soul-singer/ No All of the article's material was copied from another blog No Promotional website. Per the website, users can email their stories to an email address listed No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://uproxx.com/music/burna-boy-i-told-them-review/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/lifestyle/celeb-news/waka-waka-hitmakers-where-did-freshlyground-disappear-to-breaking-25-june-2023/ Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-40580246 Yes Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://hiphopdx.com/news/jidenna-afro-dance-fusion-album-ready-to-go No Article is littered with quotes from Jidenna Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/afro-japanese-fusion-music-puzzles-traditionalists No Article contains several quotations from Mango Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
https://www.timeslive.co.za/tshisa-live/tshisa-live/2017-07-17-shocked-us-star-paul-simon-offers-support-to-ray-phiris-family/ Yes Semi-indepedent Yes No The source does not discuss the genre whatsover ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

 Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Afrofusion is a fusion genre "Fusion music, also known as crossover music, is a genre that blends various musical styles together to create unique and innovative compositions. It often combines elements of different genres such as jazz, rock, classical, or world music to create a new sound that transcends traditional boundaries. The essence of fusion music lies in its experimental nature and the exploration of new musical horizons." ([1]) which by definition and explicit demonstration is the style of music associated-acts of afrofusion, illustrate.
    1. A Google books search on "afro fusion" retains over 1000 results. ([213])
    2. "The band is known for its eclectic sound that combines elements of South African traditional music, jazz, blues, and indie rock. Freshlyground's music often features a mix of languages, including English, Xhosa, Zulu, and French, and their lyrics often address social and political issues such as poverty, inequality, and corruption." [214] (Freshlyground) (African Music Library Org)
    3. "their sound is equally diverse, dipping into kwaito, folk, blues and jazz" (Freshlyground) [215] (Mail & Guardian, 2006)
    4. "There have always been rock, reggae, jazz and Afro-fusion bands in South Africa", "A brief profile of Laka's Afro fusion band image" - (Gavin Steingo, Kwaito's Promise Music and the Aesthetics of Freedom in South Africa, JSTOR - ISBN:9780226362687, 022636268X)
    5. "Kenyan afrofusion arrived on the scene soon after the turn of the of the twenty-first century..." - (Georgina Born , Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology, ISBN:9781800082434, 1800082436)
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:13, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. dxneo (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Africa and Nigeria. dxneo (talk) 19:31, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: So Versace1608 and Qaqaamba have an open discussion at WP:ANI complaining about content dispute/edit warring on "Khona" and related articles, use of foul language and breaking the WP:3RR rule just to mention a few. The discussion hasn't been concluded yet but here you are again on AfD. dxneo (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The article lacks clarity regarding the specific stylistic elements or rhythmic patterns that distinguish Afro-fusion as a distinct genre[216]. The article conflates afro fusion a term used in describing different genres of music as one specific genre of music[217][218][219]. For example, artists such as Burna boy, BNXN, and Omah Lay are used within the article and the sources of the article. These artists are mostly Afrobeats artists[220][221][222] with the name Afro-Fusion being used to describe their style of music as an offshoot or subgenre of afrobeats[223][224]. Also, it is very important to note that the existence of the term afro fusion being used by multiple different sources on google books or jstor is not a good enough example of the existence of this genre especially considering that when these sources are reviewed one by one each of them are talking about different genres of music that often has nothing to do with each other, with some sources using the term afro fusion in referring to the fusion of foods. Bernadine okoro (talk) 18:26, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  • Delete: Per above, the problem is not that "afro-fusion" as a term doesn't exist, because it obviously does. The problem is that various artists in different places (e.g Nigeria, South Africa) have used the name "Afro-fusion" to refer to /completely different things. This article, however, conflates them as some sort of connected, unified, related movement, which simply isn't the case and sources do not suggest as much. It's quite clear, for example, that what "Burna Boy" calls afro-fusion is simply an extension of Afrobeats, which is completely different to what, say, Sakaki Mango is calling "afro-fusion". This ultimately stems from the belief from the creator of the article that genre-names cannot be re-used by unrelated sounds. The result of this is a synthesis of various sources to suggest unrelated topics are all related to each-other. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I took a short wiki-break. As per Versace1608's stipulations at ANI prior to this AfD, Versace1608's main concerns appeared to be whether the genre originated in South Africa or not and that "Burna Boy coined the term afrofusion" - which has/have been answered/established via sources in the article. As per the purpose of this AfD does the particluar article fail WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC, WP:SUBNOT and has it been discussed in reliable secondary sources? HarrySONofBARRY - as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Afroswing#Third_opinion you agreed that any re-directs for "afrofusion" to afrobeats should be edited/deleted. Other editors appear to have edited multiple re-directs however it appears there is still a current re-direct from afrofusion to afrobeats,remainder/apparent. The stylistic origins/(influences) have been updated. In addition to previous listed stylistic origins ; world music, worldbeat, crossover music → traditional African music, Afropop and experimental music have been added as per sources , primary as well as secondary and context of the dance genre and musical style. In regards to Afro fusion as a cuisine, I believe that is a completely different topic and would hypothetically speaking be article: afro fusion (cuisine). Qaqaamba (talk) 22:36, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Bernadine okoro
    1. I have removed the Omah Lay, (now,previous) citation [225]
    2. I have removed Burna Boy paragraphs/mentions from the article as per taking an in-depth look as well as , as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion, although the artist claims he has pioneered Afro fusion as a genre, that proves to be false as per the article, in addition as per afrobeats' stylistic origins, the musical genres the musician has been blending up to date appear to be in fact the genres which indeed , make up afrobeats' (if I am not mistaken) and not afrofusion's true stylistic origins nor influences as per combined sources.
    3. I have removed BXN's, (now previous) citation [226], although he blends an additional "non-afrobeats stylistic origin" genre Drill which is illustrative of the afrofusion musical style, in itself - the source stipulated previous contradictory information in regards to "it sees BNXN put his own stamp on Afrofusion – a term coined by Burna Boy to describe his own genreless style." As per afro-fusion article, sources and above we have established that Burna Boy did not coin the term.
    4. @Versace1608 as per Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion discussion and HarrySONofBarry's concerns will you still add a section inclusive of a hatnote in the afrobeats article differentiating in regards to afrofusion as an evidential term/ hypernym/idiom and the actual afrofusion dance genre and musical style?
    5. Question: Should afrobeats be added as a regional scene in the afrofusion article i.e. "regional scene: {{hlist| [[afrobeats]]| Nigeria]]?
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    But then the issue isn't just about removing artists whose style of music have been described with the term Afro fusion the issue is whether Afro fusion exists as a musical style of its own hereby needing a standalone article. To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own because all music has rhythmic pattern even noise has rhythmic patterns.[227][228] For example, afrobeats has the Clave (rhythm) as a rhythmic pattern, rock music has four-on-the-floor pattern while house music has a four-by-four beat pattern with a bass drum kick hitting on every beat from the article afro fusion seems to not have one.[229][230][231]The article dates the genre as early as the 1970s but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s[232]. Also, I find this statement broad
    “By definition of a fusion genre and illustration of the afro-fusion musical style by associated-acts it is a genre and musical compositional form which incorporates traditional African music as well as Afropop, additionally spans between and blends various genres in a crossover-like style.”
    For one Afropop is not a specific style of music, most often Afropop is used in describing any genre of music that is popular within the African continent or simply any African music. The afropop article talks about this[233]
    Secondly if this style of music is the blending of any style of music with African traditional music, then that alone makes multiple different fusion styles of music that are within the continent to be afro fusion. But if that's what this article is about then the mentioning of 1970s South Africa as the cultural origins of this style of music will confuse readers because all fusion genres within the African continent didn't begin in South Africa. Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[234][235].
    So basically, the problem is that the article is not specific on what Afro fusion is as regards to it being a specific musical standalone style.The article, at its most effective, appears to gather every and any references to afrofusion in music without providing a clear definition of the genre itself. Bernadine okoro (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A musical style describes techniques and methodologies definied as or identified by composers of music and/or theorist of music. .
    2. "but it seems that there is already another musical style that has been described as Afro fusion dating to the 1950s" - if I am not mistaken and this is the source and specific sentence you are referring to [236] " ...Ace Afrofusion pioneers one cannot forget to mention the ace Ghanian drummer Kofi Ghanaba (years active 1950s to 2008) whose late 1950s and early 1960s Afro-jazz style influenced Tony Allen (years active 1960s/1970s to 2020) and predated the afro-fusion music of Fela Kuti (years active 1960s to 1990s) by a decade" published by John Collins, in 2015 ( after the release of afrofusion and soca song "Waka Waka (This Time for Africa) (2010), which accelerated the usage of the term to describe both former historical as well as present day illustrations of fusing African music with Western music. It appears the author used it as an adjective, additionally the author is referring to Afro-jazz (which appears to be a fusion of African music and jazz) which numerous African countries , claim or label and appear to have "pioneers" of e.g. Hugh Masekela ( years active 1950s to 2018) "Masekela began to hone his, now signature, Afro-Jazz sound in the late 1950s during a period of intense creative collaboration"[237] or Manu Dibango ( years active 1968 to 2020). Google infobox for "Afro-jazz" - [238]. Furthermore African Jazz Pioneers (also Afro-jazz ) (Years active:1950s -present) stipulates the origin as "still", Johannesburg, South Africa. African Jazz pioneers was also inclusive of Dudu Pukwana a member of Assagai an afrorock band. Afrorock blends elements of rock music with African influences which would hypethically speaking , if not by sources also be described as or make useage of the term "an afrofusion band/ genre". The fact that the term was coined by South African/(s) Sylvia Glasser and Vincent Mantsoe has already been confirmed and established via numerous reliable primary and secondary sources years prior to the publishing of the specific book and source you are referencing [239].
    3. Marabi , which combines numerous musical styles including jazz emerged and evolved from the 1890s to 1920s and beyond in, South Africa.
    4. Afrofusion as a musical style and clear evidential fusion genre as per stylistic origins/ influences such as traditional African music or afropop genres and the technique, the rhythmic pattern of the song(s) would be and depend on which genre(s) are used at that specific time or point (from the perspective of a fusion genre that would mean , 100s if not 1000s of evidential rhythms ot as you've linked to display "rhythmic patterns" i.e. Freshlyground's musical compositions for instance often blended kwaito with indie-rock. A song released in this musical style's rhythmic patterns would then be four on the floor , strumming pattern, ride cymbal and clave., if not more.
    5. The fact is that there is a plethora of both reliable primary and secondary sources confirming the musical style's definite, existence additionally as a distinct dance and musical style, (particulary, afrofusion).
    6. I believe anything else, if necessary and of factual notable importance or significance could/ would be edited accordingly. The notion for this AfD is that "This particular music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 12:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. As per reliable primary and secondary sources, afrofusion as both a dance and musical style emerged during the apartheid era, a period marked by limited access to well-recorded and easily shareable information.
    2. "Also, there are fusion styles in Africa that predates the 1970s[22][23]". It is simply indicative of precursors possibly even for afrobeat or afrobeats.
    3. The emergence of a musical genre involves a specific time period, reflecting the state of the world, country, or city at that time, along with distinct stylistic origins, influences, and locations. For instance, Tsapiky fused South African pop with native Malagasy traditions in the 1970s, indicative of the musical landscape and cultural influences of that era. While afrofusion originated in the 1970s to 1980s, it remains relevant, unlike Tsapiky, which has waned in popularity. Musical instruments, compositional techniques, and cultural influences evolve over time, shaping fusion genres differently across various periods and regions in African music history before the 1970s, various African fusion genres existed, each characterized by distinct time periods, stylistic origins, influences, locations, and cultural contexts within the diverse musical landscape of the continent.
    4. Worldbeat, a genre blending pop or rock with world music, differs from afro-fusion, which originated in the 1970s in South Africa, blending various specifically African pop genres. Worldbeat emerged in the mid-1980s in the UK and US, reflecting integrated cultural influences. Afrofusion, being a progressive and living genre opposed to "dead genre" which would've meant did not regain or maintain mainstream popularity, incorporates elements from worldbeat and other styles, suggesting a stylistic connection. Artists like Miriam Makeba [240], prominent in afrofusion's early years, were influential figures in world music/ worldbeat as well. Although it diverges from the main topic, it seems possible that worldbeat could perhaps be considered a subgenre or derivative form of afrofusion, given the timeline and historical context.
    5. As an umbrella term, afro-fusion does not negate the existence of precursors, it remains distinct from them. Its origins are firmly established in the 1970s to 1980s, supported by abundant reliable primary and secondary sources.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 15:38, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Bernadine okoro's claim that "To classify Afro fusion as a musical style of its own it means it must have a rhythmic pattern of its own" seems like an unreasonable standard. Heavy metal music and Punk rock are different styles but share the same basic rhythmic pattern. I know of at least one black metal song in 3/4 time, but that doesn't mean that it's in the same musical style as The Blue Danube. There are other elements that define a musical style. --Slashme (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Right, there are other elements that define musical styles. The reason why I picked rhythmic patterns is because they’re a little bit more of an easier signifier of a musical style. However, I feel I didn't properly convey what i meant, i was trying to get to the very fact that every music has a rhythmic pattern the Afro-fusion article doesn't list any much signifier. So basically I'm trying to understand the style of music this genre of Afro-fusion is because multiple different musical styles use the term Afro-fusion to define their style of music like in the case of Burna boy using Afro-fusion to describe his unique style of afrobeats or Magixx who have also been described as an afro-fusion artist i.e. Afrobeats artist same with Maleek Berry [241][242][243] [244][245][246]. The article is not clear for example it uses a source of the 2019 Pearl Rhythm Festival which was hosted in Uganda there aren't any sources that could back up the very fact as to regards whether the Afro-fusion mentioned in the source is the same as the one from South Africa [247]. In all honesty, the article seems to amalgamate online articles or books that mention Afro-fusion into one single Wikipedia article, especially in the history section. And again this is faulty because there are multiple different styles of music that the term Afro-fusion has been used in describing [248]. It is not one style of music stemming from South Africa and if it is, then the article needs to be a little bit more descriptive about that or leave a note at the top that conveys to readers that the afro fusion musical style practiced in uganda or nigeria is not the same as this south african one. Bernadine okoro (talk) 20:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Emphasizing on stipulating rhythmic patterns seems irrelevant additionally it is inherent that any piece of music, be it a song or album, inherently contains rhythm. The mere act of afrofusion musical style assosciated-acts, composing and publishing music inherently involves incorporating rhythm. Without rhythm a song or album would not be possible or realistically exist, which indicates you are indirectly insisting on the non-existence of afrofusion as a musical style/ afrofusion published bodies of work.[249] [250] [251]
    2. Afrofusion, as per reiterated numerous times, is a fusion genre, musical style. A musical style encompasses a range of techniques and methodologies defined or identified by composers and music theorists, which in this case is afrofusion, a fusion genre, musical style. This fusion genre incorporates elements from multiple genres in a predominantly experimental [252] [253] and crossover [254] [255] [256] [257] manner , resulting in a diverse array of rhythms evident in published works . e.g. afrofusion trio, Tananas' music fused jazz, ragtime, township jive, Mozambican salsa, and Spanish music., therefore the rhythmic patterns would be four on the floor, 2/4, 3/2, 2/3 and strumming pattern.[258]
    3. If my memory serves me correctly were you not the editor that previously linked Freshlyground and genre "afrofusion" to afrobeats in the bands music infobox although numerous sources clearly stipulate(s)/ed the bands genres being somewhat hyperly distinct from that of afrobeats as well as afrobeats being explicitly titled "afrobeats" and not afrofusion?
    4. Afrofusion's title is explicitly, "Afrofusion" not e.g. Brazilian afrofusion or Chinese afrofusion, thus if a musician releases a body of work, as explicitly afrofusion and more importantly to highlight - not as a term to describe another fusion genre or musical style- it is in all probablity afrofusion. Georgina Born described afrofusion as "Kenyan" afrofusion in like 3 sentences in her book and throughout the rest of the book, over 5 other pages, if not more, it is explicity and simply, "afrofusion" [259]. Another book , "Kenya is home to a diverse range of music styles, ranging from imported popular music, afro-fusion and benga music to traditional folk songs."[260]. Additionally, there is already a paragraph in the article that clearly stipulates "regional scenes" and if I am not mistaken as well as "music scenes."
    5. As per Magixx's paragraph in the article and source " "Get to know Magixx, Nigeria's next big afro-fusion star" ,the musician fused trap, which is not a stylistic origin of afrobeats - (afrobeat, Igbo highlife,dancehall,fuji, hiplife, highlifekpanlogo ,hip hop,jùjú, R&B, soca, house), the source does not make any mention of afrobeats whatsoever. "Magixx's debut EP blends Afropop (literally 100s, if not more of African popular music genres), trap and dancehall production", In 2019, after struggling to pay for studio sessions in uni, Magixx released ‘Problem’, a succinct amalgamation of Afropop and Afro R&B sounds he was experimenting with at that time".
    6. In the case of Maleek Berry's mention in the paragraph in the afrofusion article as well as , as per sources [49] [50]. It is not surprising nor weird that it may be mistaken as afrobeats given the Afro-Fusion redirect to Afrobeats etc., article. Maleek Berry featured in American rapper, GoldLink's, Diaspora album. Maleek Berry and Bibi Bourelly featured on the song, "Zulu Screams" in constrast to the song's title, "Zulu Screams" included Bibi Bourelly singing in Lingala[51]. Additionally, one of the other characteristics that make up afrofusion is and/or multilingualism, moreover not solely African languages. Which is not a characteristic of afrobeats [52][53][54][55].
    7. The notes you are proposing appear to be irrelevant, misleading and non-constructive especially as this is an AfD nor is this a WP:DISPUTE. The most important notes/hatnotes would be one in the afrobeats article stipulating that Burna Boy is not the pioneer of afrofusion and is in fact making afrobeats as per yourself, Versace1608 and HarrySONofBarry stipulations as well as the usage of it as a term/hypernym.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 07:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The reason why I asked for the rhythmic patterns goes back to what I have been saying in my replies which is that there are different styles of music that the term afrofusion has been used in describing. Now in order to differentiate which musical style you maybe referring to it all partly boils down to how each musical style is arranged in i.e. characteristics that define this style of music from other musical styles that has been referred to as afro-fusion. Rhythmic patterns are much easier to identify hence why I asked and by rhythmic patterns I mean the beat pattern that this style of music often follows and not occasionally follows[261]. From what you are saying it seems as though you are insinuating that this style of music follows all available rhythmic patterns which can be confusing because I don't think there is a genre that encompasses all rhythmic patterns just because it’s a fusion genre. This further broadens this style of music making it harder to identify. Although various genres of music allow for the fusion of different rhythmic patterns, they all have unique or specific patterns they all follow It is important to note that this doesn’t mean it can’t share a specific pattern with other genres of music like in the case of rock music and EdM[262]
    As regards to Magixx, that specific source might not make any mention of Afrobeats but other articles refer to his music as Afrobeats in fact he even said he is”…looking to leave an unforgettable imprint on Afrobeats” now if his style of Afro-fusion was the south African version he would have made that clear because it doesn’t seem like the song problem has anything to do with Zulu harmony[263][264][265] Herein lies the problem with this article if afropop and African rhythm and blues are what makes the songs released by Magixx a style of afro-fusion that you are describing what stops any fusion style from Africa from being classified as afro-fusion? For example, although highlife music is part of the stylistic origins of afrobeats a simple fusion of highlife and amapiano, does not make a song afrobeats but by your description with a few sources one can make an argument that the simple fusion of these styles of music can be classified as afro-fusion since it incorporates traditional African music and other genres of music. Maleek Berry’s style of music has been referred to as afrobeats one article classifying him as afro fusionist doesn’t make him an artist that does South African afro fusion [266][267][268].
    Also from the afrobeats article, the genre is shared between Ghana and Nigeria, and Afrobeats artists from other countries apart from these two countries sing in their native languages as a result technically making multilingualism a part of Afrobeats.[269][270][271] What am saying is that if you can describe a little bit more of the characteristics of this specific style of music it can help readers to differentiate what afro fusion is and what it is not when listening to it. Also, the notes/hatnotes should be in both the Afrobeats article and in this one too. And, I am not the editor that previously linked Freshly ground “afro-fusion" to afrobeats in the band’s music infobox. I do not know what this is about, you are going to have to figure out which editor this is as it has nothing to do with me. Bernadine okoro (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Most music's base rhythm is four on the floor, however all distinct from one another because of stylistic/cultural origins, typical instruments and other elements (rock, blues, house etc.)
    2. There are not "different terms" of music Afro-fusion was used to describe. There's afrofusion as a crossover, experimental fusion genre, musical style [272][273][274][275], specifically yourself and HarrySONofBarry adding(ed) "afrofusion" as "other name", in the body,lede and creating(ed) redirects for "Afro-Fusion/Afrofusion" to afrobeats which obviously misleads, misinforms readers and is damaging to the purpose of the encyclopedia, and it being used as a term/hypernym ISBN 9780819575401.
    3. You appear to be insinuating that because an artist is Nigerian or not South African, it is impossible for them to publish afro-fusion bodies of work. Additionally, it is not odd for a musician to dabble in different/various musical styles or genres and regional scenes/ music scenes are stipulated in paragraphs. Both implied points are illogical and not how music or art for that matter works, at all.
    4. Repeatedly emphasized, the distinctiveness of a musical style stems from its stylistic origins, cultural roots (both geographical and literal), the prevailing global context and the circumstances surrounding its emergence, including the how and why behind its development. Most if not, all forms of music and art have precursors. Highlife emerged in the 19th century, its stylistic origins are ; (Palm-wine music, Akan music, Akan folklore, African music) and incorporated jazz in the 1920s. Marabi's roots are a fusion of European hymnology and spirituals during the late 19th to early 20th centuries as it developed from Makwaya, incorporating elements of jazz, ragtime, Pedi and Tswana bass traditions, alongside adaptations of Xhosa folk melodies into keyboard arrangements etc. (Both highlife and marabi evolved and emerged incorporating jazz 'round about the same time, although possible , South Africa "first" and then Ghana "followed"- [276]). I am not certain why you're stipulating notes or hatnotes should be made for possible precursors, hip hop does not need to be differientated from talking blues or rhythm and blues for numerous, obvious reasons.
    5. Multilingualism is not included in the afrobeats article's characteristics. Afrofusion incorporated multilingualism as far back as the 80s [277], [278] [279] , if not prior to, this would also be more evident or prominent, since South Africa is not solely close-national/descent homogenous (ethnic groups in South Africa) like that of for instance China or Nigeria. Afrikaans , an official language of South Africa , in itself emerged during the Dutch Cape Colony from Dutch dialects. Many Afrofusion bands are multi-cultural/national/racial/ethnic, contributing to the "fusion" and multilingual aspect by incorporating diverse cultural influences [280][281][282] , "Tananas, a multiracial five-piece group from Cape Town, reflected that city's mixed heritage" - Billboard ,18 Feb 1995, p. 43
    6. Even after excluding musicians from the article who might have mistakenly been labeled as afro-fusion due to the reasons stated earlier etc., I find it puzzling, why you continue to bring up and focus on afrobeats, making comparisons and fixating on it as a central topic.The point of this AfD was/is "that music genre fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:SUBNOT. It has not been discussed in reliable secondary sources, and there isn't a single reliable source that discusses the genre in detail."
    Qaqaamba (talk) 06:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To be clear, I agreed to a compromise solution so we could move forward with our conversation and ultimately deduced that a redirect is not as important as the other issues we were discussing.
    As I raised there and on the Afrobeats talk page, I ultimately disagreed with your changes and wished to discuss it at a later date. HarrySONofBARRY (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. A redirect plays a crucial role in guiding readers to related and, most importantly, accurate articles.
    2. As per numerous discussions elsewhere, I repeatedly stipulated that musical genre/styles cannot explicity share the exact name and that differentiations are always/have to be made, e.g. Hip hop and Hipco both rap genres, however distinct from one another in regards to predominant location of origin, culture as well as stylistic origins/influences. Both yourself and Bernadine Okoro appear to insistently oppose this methodology and logic. Furthermore, hypothetically speaking introducing Hip Hop vs. explicitly titled Hip Hop (actually, Liberian Hip Hop/rap) into the encyclopedia is not only misleading as well as confusing to readers however damaging to the encyclopedia. Versace 1608, indirectly stipulated this amongst viewpoints in discussion Talk:Burna Boy#Removal of Afrofusion, in regards to the fact that afrofusion shouldn't be linked in Burna Boy's article and once more as per above, a hatnote needed to be included in the afrobeats article.
    3. It has been consistently established through numerous discussions that Afrofusion (1970s - 1980s/2000s) does not explicitly ≠ Afrobeats (2000s/2010s), as well as obvious as per times of emergence and stipulated stylistic origins/influences. To conclude and addressing you as the most probable editor to possibly do this since you created the afrobeats article this aspect, the "undeletable/ ongoing" re-direct should be be deleted. Additionally, one cannot explicitly title afrobeats as afrofusion and even as other name in the infobox parameter, too would be confusing/misleading to readers. The hatnote appears to be the best solution.
    Qaqaamba (talk) 09:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral:The first impression I had about this article was it will be notable but on looking at the sources I began to disagree with myself. I found sources that speak about the struggles of some supposedly "Afrofusion artists", top artists claiming their musical genre was Afrofusion (even though critics address them as Afrobeats), and a few mentions of this supposed musical genre. What I didn't see were sources dedicated to analyzing the musical genre which I believe is fundamental to establishing it as one. If it is not deleted, it should probably be listed as a derivative of Afrobeats. HandsomeBoy (talk) 15:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Based on the article, reliable primary and secondary sources, and the preceding discussion, to reiterate, it's apparent that while some artists may use "afrofusion" as a hypernym or term, the musical style itself predates the emergence of afrobeats in the 2000s to 2010s. It experienced a period of relative obscurity during apartheid but regained mainstream popularity in the 2000s. Categorizing afrofusion solely as a derivative of afrobeats would be illogical and misleading to readers, given its established existence prior to the rise of afrobeats. Qaqaamba (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have watched videos of Fela telling international journalists that his brand of music is Afrobeats, and he died in the 90s. Fela is also regarded as the initiator of Afrobeats, so you are very wrong to say Afrobeats started in the 2000s or 2010s. Perhaps, you should allow others participate freely in the AFD. No need reacting to all the votes with incorrect info. HandsomeBoy (talk) 00:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, please provide sources. dxneo (talk) 00:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I should provide sources for what exactly?? Someone countered some aspects of my comment with incorrect information WITHOUT SOURCES, and you are fine with that. But you aren't fine with my isolated points. Well for the sake of others, please read Fela Kuti you will see many sources there that talks about his connection with Afrobeats and the time he died. If you need something more concrete, please read his Britanica page that calls him "Pioneer of Afrobeats". Please leave me alone. No one is obligated to use my !vote in closing the discussion. HandsomeBoy (talk) 18:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
HandsomeBoy, relax I didn't mean to step on your toe, your comment caught my eye and I thought if you provided sources to back your claims then this would be over. Another thing, we are discussing "Afro fusion" not afrobeats, so Fela Kuti is relevant how? dxneo (talk) 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To hear from more independent editors please
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 00:29, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: since this AfD was raised, the sourcing has greatly improved. For example, Georgina Born's book, (Born, Georgina (2022). Music and Digital Media A planetary anthropology. UCL Press (published 12 September 2022). p. 67. ISBN 9781800082434.), which discusses the genre and its history in good detail, and a lot of newspaper and magazine articles which show that the term is used consistently and widely. --Slashme (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Slashme: Can you please provide a link to page 67? I believe you have access to this book since you've read page 67. I am trying to read the page you claimed discusses the genre in "good detail". I can't access it on my end without paying a fee.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 22:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi Versace1608, here is a link to p.66, where the discussion of Afro Fusion starts --Slashme (talk) 14:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the link. I disagree with your claim that the book discusses the genre in good detail. As a matter of fact, the genre isn't discussed at all. The four paragraphs that make up the section "Developing Afro fusion" is primarily about GidiGidi MajiMaji and Eric Wainanina's respective albums (Ismarwa and Sawa Sawa). The author also stated that those two acts are significant figures in Kenya's Afro fusion scene.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 17:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree with your statement that "the genre isn't discussed at all". It talks about the institutional sponsors of Afro Fusion, the way that it's rooted in local culture, and the annual music festivals surrounding the genre. Saying that it's primarily about those two albums seems to me to be a strange mischaracterisation of the content. In fact, in the opening paragraph, the author says "Fostered by Nairobi's NGO sector and cosmopolitan middle class, and linked to the global 'world music' circuit, Kenyan Afro-fusion is marked by an aesthetic emphasis on live instrumentation over digitally programmed accompaniments, and the attempt to 'fuse' African aesthetics with Western popular music. It has thrived, as I will describe, on patronage from nongovernmental cultural institutions that find value in its underlying aim of cultivating a more modern 'Kenyan' sound." She then goes on to talk about these aspects in detail. This goes way beyond a simple mention of the topic, and absolutely supports the notability claim. Also, that section isn't the only part of the book that mentions the topic. It's referred to over and over again in discussions of the work of other artists. --Slashme (talk) 13:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ToadetteEdit! 16:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: This is an article about music. However, looking at the discussion per se, it looks like the normal "Nigeria vs Ghana", ..vs South Africa", etc. On a note, Afro fusion does exist but for the article, it has so many claims even the ones removed and it alleges or neither shows it was written from a personal point of view (just like fans of Cristiano Ronaldo and fans of Lionel Messi will do to both article). There is only one way out: deletion to neutrality and a fundamental rewrite which should pass AFC and being to NPP. Safari ScribeEdits! Talk! 17:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Slashme. There is sufficient coverage in WP:RS as per the sources cited by other editors, and the article meets our notability guidelines. However, I would suggest renaming to Afro fusion (music) to differentiate it from Afro fusion (cuisine) when created, as an editor noted above.Tamsier (talk) 18:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Tamsier, renaming will be discussed separately after this AfD is closed and if/when the cuisine is created. dxneo (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pretoria Wireless Users Group[edit]

Pretoria Wireless Users Group (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I was unable to find any mention of this organization anywhere, hence seems to fail WP:ORGCRIT. Virtually all the news about this organization comes from 'mybroadband.co.za', a rather niche trade publication focused on broadband which does not appear in the searches. Allan Nonymous (talk) 04:16, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previous WP:PROD candidate, ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 04:31, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa Proposed deletions[edit]

Also check the list at WP:PRODSUM


Sudan[edit]


Tanzania[edit]

Alenga Charles[edit]

Alenga Charles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This comes across as WP:TOOSOON, as the player is young and only getting started. That said, this article clearly fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:GNG as it stands right now. Several searches hardly brought up databases, much less anything of substance. Anwegmann (talk) 03:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Concar[edit]

David Concar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lacking sufficient in-depth coverage in secondary sources to demonstrate notability. Sources are purely mentions of his appointments. Fails WP:NBIO. AusLondonder (talk) 07:09, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tanzania proposed deletions[edit]


Tunisia[edit]


Uganda[edit]


Zimbabwe[edit]

Zimbabwe proposed deletions[edit]

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