Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 September 8

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September 8

Josh Van Bull

FYI

 – Combined sections. GoingBatty (talk) 01:46, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Josh van Bull 26 December 1892 - 18 May 1980) was A Fourth French Empire and French Third Republic Last President with Albert Lebrun until he's death on May 18 1980 at 6:00 A.M. Mickeymouss2011 (talk) 01:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

he was at the military for the last 8 years. On May 18 1980. At 6:00 A.M. At Warrington PA Josh and his brother Diego died of a heart attack They will buried at Paris France Diego Van Bull 1893-1980. Josh Van Bull 1892-1980 talk:|talk]]) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mickeymouss2011 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Mickeymouss2011: Hi there! Wikipedia doesn't seem to have an article about Josh Van Bull. Did you have a question about Wikipedia? GoingBatty (talk) 01:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

User is blocked. -- Hoary (talk) 06:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Everything written above about "Josh Van Bull" is nonsense. Those who perpetuate hoaxes on Wikipedia will not be allowed to continue. Cullen328 (talk) 07:14, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Contacting Museums

I am contacting multiple museums for more information for articles I am writing. If they respond could I cite the responses? What would be the best way to go about this. LuxembourgLover (talk) 01:56, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@LuxembourgLover: No, you cannot cite the responses, because they are not published reliable sources. You can request that your correspondents at the museums, point you to published information, which can include websites that are associated with the museums. If your correspondents become intereseted in your project, they may even decide to add the information you seek to those web sites. -Arch dude (talk) 03:24, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Posting in agreement with Arch dude. The responses would be personal correspondence and might fall under that purview of the essay Wikipedia:You are not a reliable source ... I was looking for a better essay or guideline, but did not find one specifically related to 'communications with subject matter experts'; would be useful if one such as this could be found. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:23, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

GA reviewed version

Would it be possible to change the version that John Romita Sr. became a good article on from this diff to this diff? I ask because there was a mistake I had missed before the article was passed. I had tried replacing the revision id on the talk page template, but the old revision still appears on Wikipedia 1.0 Server instead. FlairTale (talk) 02:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Try asking at Wikipedia_talk:Good_article_nominations, but you can still edit Good Articles to add information and fix mistakes. RudolfRed (talk) 04:00, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello, FlairTale. You can make productive, neutral, well-referenced changes to any article, including Good articles and Featured articles. If anyone objects, build consensus on the article's talk page. Incremental changes are best. Cullen328 (talk) 07:27, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello. External Link removed

I am an Autoconfirmed user. I added an External Link but it disappeared. I added it again and it disappeared again. Please advise why that is happening Khanlogs (talk) 13:24, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Khanlogs: Hi there! I presume you're referring to the Jawan (film) article. Looking at the article history, I see it was reverted by Krimuk2.0, but the user didn't explain why. Per the Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, I suggest discussing this on the article's talk page, Talk:Jawan (film), where you can explain why you think there's a benefit to include the link, and others can provide their thoughts, and you can come to a consensus. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 13:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks GoingBatty. I provided user benefits in my response to Krimuk2.0 . Khanlogs (talk) 21:32, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Adding to what GoingBatty said: you'll need to explain why this link meets the conditions in WP:ELYES. ColinFine (talk) 13:53, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Khanlogs you are adding a self-published blog called somindram. As per WP:ELYES and WP:BLOGS, any references considered not WP:RS will be promptly removed. Thank you. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 13:56, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Some clarification is warranted here; Somindram.com is "not" a blog. There is not a single post which could be consider a blog post. It is a structured enduser view of a large database that is specifically focused on Bollywood and Indian Cinema.

There is unique value to users and fans as pointed out below:

Somindram provides a large, elaborate, and complex rating system for movies, songs, actors and film crews and artists. There are at least 17 Rating criteris not incuding Actors ratings wihch is a variable and the rating touchpoints can rise to 40 or more. This capability does not exist on any portal or site anywhere in the world.

Also on Somindram ther is a unique Box Office Ranking system based on the magnitude of box office returns over (or under) the budgeted cost.

There is a section on Shooting locations identifying where movies are filmed along with photographs of such places. Users wil be able to relate to that.

So at this point I am planning to add movie pages on Wikipedia which are missing currently. But I am worried, based on your assessment, I will not be able to put an external link on my own Movie Article, which would be unfair in my view.

I will request some guidance on how to link to specific movie pages without violating Wikipedia rules. I do not strive for shameless, tasteless promotion. I only want legitimate links so users can have an enjoyable experience.

Thanks. Khanlogs (talk) 15:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Khanlogs You would be best to discuss the use of this source with those other editors interested in Indian Films: at WT:ICTF. You may be able to achieve a consensus that it is valid either in the external links section of articles or as citations. Note, however, that even well-known internet resources such as IMDb are not considered reliable for Wikipedia: see also WP:IMDB. Note that "fair" or "unfair" is not relevant as you do not WP:OWN any article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Khanlogs, please take a look at Somindram's FAQ page which makes it clear that this website consists of user contributed content. They even allow users to upload their own musical "jingles". Accordingly, this website is not a reliable source for use as a reference in Wikipedia articles. Cullen328 (talk) 00:15, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

JOBTITLE and “the”

In Naruhito, an invisible comment claims that MOS:JOBTITLE prohibits adding “the” in front of “Emperor”. However, I didn’t see anywhere that guideline says that. Can somebody give me some pointers? Aaron Liu (talk) 14:44, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

The invisible comment is misleading. It would be fine to add "the" before "Emperor". If added, that would mean that "Emperor" should be changed to lower case, making "the emperor of Japan". Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

(e/c) Context is everything. It is perfectly fine to talk about "the emperor" as a role or position, but when the word is used as a title, then it is simply Emperor Augustus etc. Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Ah, makes sense. I’ve amended the comment. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:59, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Person Page

Hi! New editor here! Just looking for some insight/advice here. I was really hoping to surprise my husband by creating a Wiki page about him for his birthday. He really loves to utilize Wikipedia to learn knew things and we have enjoyed the Wiki Game as well as playing endless quiz games that teach us more using Wikipedia links. Does anyone know if there is anyway I could make him a wiki page for his birthday despite him not being a celebrity or "notable" by wiki's criteria? (even if it can only be posted temporarily?) Thanks a bunch! Lover325 (talk) 16:14, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Lover325: Hi there! Since your husband does not meet Wikipedia's notability criteria, you should not create an article about him. However, if your husband is a registered Wikipedia user, you could create a user page for him. GoingBatty (talk) 16:20, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Or, alternatively, create your own UserPage by clicking on the current redlink to your name. Do not place excessive information about yourself or your husband there: stick to the guidance at WP:UPYES and do not reveal personal information such as DOB. If you both regularly use certain pages/articles on Wikipedia your UserPage could be a place to collect together the relevant wikilinks. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:46, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

football records

My son Stone Hollenbach was missed on the list for piaa football records and i want to see how to get him on there. He played at southern Columbia and had 6622 passing career yards minimum is 6001, he had 84 career passing touchdowns minimum is 75. It was just two categories but he sould be listed on both of these. He played at Southern columbia from 2016 to 2018 > he was injured his senior year and missed 5 games but came back and qb the rest of the season. max preps does not have those games listed for some reasaon. I just want to see how he can get on those lists as he deserves to be there. He was offered a preferred walk on to alabama as well as full scholarship offers to other schools thank you very much for your time Sara Hollenbach Sara Jo Fisher (talk) 17:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately we can't take your word for that. In order for his name to be added to PIAA football records we would need a published reliable source. Do you have one? Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

So, his stats are in MaxPreps as stated: [1], however from what I know about MaxPreps, it doesn't qualify as a reliable source, because it is user edited without much editorial control; there's hundreds of users that enter stats for games as they come in, and there's not really any checking of the information. It depends on the fact that MaxPreps users (usually coaches or statisticians from various high school sports teams) enter the data from games accurately, and no one really goes back and checks. It's just a giant stats wiki. In order to be usable, we'd need stats from a better source, like an official agency that certifies such records. --Jayron32 18:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Choice of title for new article (avoiding clash) / potential renaming

Hi Wikipedia persons, I have recently added a few photographs of the railway station in Lismore, Australia, to the existing page Lismore railway station (no problem). However when looking for potential other photos on Wikimedia Commons, I have discovered that there is another Lismore railway station in Lismore, Ireland (e.g. see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_former_Lismore_Railway_Station_(geograph_5434764).jpg) that currently has no Wikipedia article, although it seems to be sufficiently notable (described in relevant architectural registers etc.), so I am thinking of creating one for it, mainly so that each Wikipedia article can then be aware of the other's existence and offer potential redirects / "did you mean"s. So, presuming that this is a reasonable idea, I am looking for advice as to the title for the new article, which could be (e.g.) "Lismore railway station, Ireland", "Lismore railway station, County Waterford, Ireland", or anything else suitable for distinguishing it from the existing page (for the station in Lismore in New South Wales, Australia). Then as a second action, should the existing "Lismore railway station" be renamed "Lismore railway station, Australia", or perhaps "Lismore railway station, New South Wales", for overall harmonisation of treatment, or left as is? Your advice appreciated, Regards, Tony Rees, Australia Tony 1212 (talk) 19:25, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Tony 1212, I would incline to "Lismore railway station, New South Wales", per members of Category:Railway stations in the Hunter Region and "Lismore railway station, County Waterford" per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Europe and North Asia. However , I wouldn't worry too much as articles can be moved to a better name. TSventon (talk) 19:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks TSventon, I will work something up along those principles then. Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 20:13, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Alright, newly created page for the Irish instance now at Lismore railway station, County Waterford (created relying on internet sources, no first hand knowledge...). I think I will avoid re-naming the Australian instance just now since there are other things linking to it at present, also the same wording is in use as a category (and associated subcategory) for the same subject on Wikimedia Commons. Maybe the above is sufficient for now :) Regards Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 07:24, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

A Possibly Unnecessary Removal

I put Dollface who is in the [The Tom and Jerry Show (2014 TV series] who is an actual recurring character on the show. I also put "Dollface" on [List of Tom and Jerry characters] page. But Waxworker removed "Dollface" who probably doesn't thinks the character exists, which the character mostly certainly does. I even give the Tom and Jerry Wiki page of "Dollface", which it's most certainly not a fanon Wiki, but he said that the Fandom Wikis are unreliable sources and probably even refuses to undo his removal. Dollface is an actual official character who appeared on "The Tom and Jerry Show (2014)" and also on "[Tom and Jerry in New York]" voiced by Julie Wittner. ElectricStormFire86 (talk) 19:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@ElectricStormFire86 Even IMDb doesn't list Wittner among the cast list for T&J in NY. That doesn't mean that you are wrong but I suggest you take your suggestions to the Talk Pages of Tom_and_Jerry_in_New_York and / or The Tom and Jerry Show (2014 TV series) and make your case there, along with reliable sources. many editors will have these Talk Pages on their watchlists. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:46, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Ok. I will try that. Also, you will going to try to prevent Waxworker from interfering again? ElectricStormFire86 (talk) 21:54, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Nobody is going to "prevent Waxworker from interfering" unless they edit contrary to Wikipedia's policies. If you want to see a change to an article, and another editor does not agree that it is an improvement, it is up to you to argue your case and persuade them (and possibly other editors) of the merit of your case. See WP:BRD. ColinFine (talk) 22:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

How to cite a book multiple times?

I am working on the page Luis de Carvajal the Younger and I have a book source that I want to cite. I want to cite different chapters/pages without making nearly identical citations with just different chapters/pages/PDF urls but I'm not sure how to format it. Jaguarnik (talk) 23:04, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jaguarnik: There are several approaches, but I like to use {{rp}}. -Arch dude (talk) 01:58, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! That's very helpful. Is there a way to also list different chapter titles/sources, or is there only a method for pages? Jaguarnik (talk) 02:11, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jaguarnik: the parameter of the {{rp}} can be anything, not just a single number. Take a look at some of the examples in the documentation of {{rp}}, and then experiment. -Arch dude (talk) 02:43, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jaguarnik: Arch dude has given one satisfactory solution, but another you may wish to consider is using {{sfn}}. You give the citations once, typically in a list below the references, then just use {{sfn|Cohen|1966|p=3}} (using your number 1 citation as an example). Note that a sfn reference does not require <ref> ... </ref> tags around it. Where a page number is not appropriate, the final element would be "loc=chapter 3". See Frindsbury for an example of its use in practice, along with the related {{efn}}.

You'll appreciate that keeping that actual citations in a list allows them to be placed in a logical (usually alphabetical) order rather than in the order first encountered. If you want (and only if you want, I'm not bulldozing in) I could go through establishing the SFN system, but we'd better put a note on the talk page before that in case Buidhe wishes to comment. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I am pro sfn because I think it looks neater than rp, but either are acceptable per Wikipedia rules. (t · c) buidhe 14:15, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

How to submit a new article?

I've been working in my sandbox on a draft article about Michele Hayeur Smith. How can I submit this for review (& hopefully inclusion) in English Wikipedia? I tried following the Article Wizard but it looked like it was going to open a new draft space & I didn't want to duplicate. Redwidgeon (talk) 23:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Redwidgeon. Please read the instructions at Template:AfC submission/submit. Cullen328 (talk) 23:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)