Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of FIFA World Cup own goals

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. I see No consensus here and I don't think a third relisting would sway anyone's opinion or bring in a decisive number of new editors who could break this logjam. Although not many picked up on the suggestion the possibility of Merging is still out there or perhaps we will see a return to AFD after a resonable period of time (i.e. not tomorrow). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of FIFA World Cup own goals[edit]

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A list of own goals is not inherently notable and there is no evidence it meets WP:GNG. Most of the sources are WP:ROUTINE match reports. Also qualifies for deletion under WP:NOTSTATS. Natg 19 (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bundling in women's own goal article for same rationale. Natg 19 (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Lists. Natg 19 (talk) 22:18, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:55, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I believe the article does not violate WP:NOTSTATS as this page is indeed split into its own article, and is not indiscriminate. The sources are WP:ROUTINE but the content of the article is not. This article seems at least as well sourced as most lists on National Football League records. Wcdowchb (talk) 03:43, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 18:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete both there doesn't look to be many sources that cover the topic of own goals in either of these tournaments in depth. Of course there are source that mention the own goals individually, but none that mention them together e.g. saying "X scored the 35th own goal in history". As such, doesn't meet the criteria of WP:NLIST, and is just a WP:NOTSTATS. Also think that List of UEFA European Championship own goals should be similarly deleted. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:03, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - NOTSTATS, I don't think we need these. Giant Snowman 19:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per Wcdowchb. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 00:31, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as it turns out there is quite a bit of discussion of the topic of own goals in World Cup history, and this seems like valuable information that Wikipedia can provide, as long as it's accurate and being kept up to date. On the topic of the total number, we have articles like this one from the Qatar News Agency, "Own Goals Are Rooted in World Cup History"; this 2018 article on "World Cup bloopers" from ESPN and this "World Cup 2018: The own goal is basically the leading scorer of the tournament" from CBS Sports. On the topic of most notable own goals, we have articles like this "top 10" one from China Daily in 2014. I also just learned from this 2022 Guardian article that Qatar was unusual in having no own goals in the first 16. (Psychologically it does feel a bit mean to be tracking own goals on the world's biggest stage like this, but as the Qatar News Agency article says, part of why it's closely tracked and analysed now is to refute any accusations of corruption (!!!).) (And mistakes happen, because football is life.) Cielquiparle (talk) 07:39, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Both - This article have useful and unique information. Many users wanted to know the own goal information at FIFA World Cup. But It is difficult to find information about own goal. In my opinion, this article is Engllish wikipedia's precious article. Besides I think that own goal list is also part of FIFA World Cup statistics. Some own goals are more famous than general goals, For example Andrés Escobar's own goal. Footwiks (talk) 17:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Agree with Natg 19 re- GNG and ROUTINE. The list is mainly WP:FANCRUFT. Own goals are a fairly routine and common part of football, they might not happen every match but there is nothing special about an own goal in a football game. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:15, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add as well, although not as detailed, List of FIFA World Cup goalscorers contains information about own goals. No reason some of the content from this list couldn't be merged there. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:27, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Stevie fae Scotland: I've actually wondered if List of FIFA World Cup goalscorers should be deleted, as it is a list of every goal that has ever been scored in a WC. That seems to fail WP:NOTSTATS. Natg 19 (talk) 18:11, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - The own goals are indiscriminate. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 11:49, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update. Have now added the notability argument that the murder of Colombian footballer Andrés Escobar by a fan due to his own goal at the 1994 World Cup is the very reason why own goals at the FIFA World Cup have taken on immense importance, and are closely tracked and scrutinised. Have also added the Sports Illustrated article on own goals at the 2018 World Cup (and how World Cup champions France benefitted the most). These aren't just own goals at any tournament; it's the world's biggest stage for football and Escobar lost his life. Cielquiparle (talk) 12:43, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge anything salvageable (after the valid FANCRUFT and NOTSTATS issues have been addressed) into List of FIFA World Cup goalscorers, per Stevie fae Scotland. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 16:40, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Giving this discussion another round with a suggestion of a merger amid the consensus divided between "keep" and "delete".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ASTIG️🙃 _{(ICE-T • ICE CUBE)} 10:30, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Note that the article is sourced almost exclusively to FIFA, which is not an independent source as required by WP:N. The sources posted above would at best confirm the notability of individual or a select group of own goals, but it's not clear that the totality of own goals in the world cup is a notable topic which has received significant coverage aside from statistical databases. Avilich (talk) 20:57, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Qatar News Agency article talks about all of them (up to 2018): https://www.qna.org.qa/en/News-Area/Special-News/2022-11/12/0036-qatar-2022-own-goals-are-rooted-in-world-cup-history Cielquiparle (talk) 08:32, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's not exactly a list, though Avilich (talk) 16:15, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete List doesn't make sense to me and seems like there no evidence this dataset has ever been used in this fashion. 116.206.28.50 (talk) 11:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per Wcdowchb and Cielquiparle.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:17, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete WP:NOTSTATS applies here. NapHit (talk) 10:31, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTSTATS states, statistics should be placed in tables to enhance readability, and articles with statistics should include explanatory text providing context. Where statistics are so lengthy as to impede the readability of the article, the statistics can be split into a separate article, all of which this article does. So that specific rule could be read as support for !keep in this instance. Cielquiparle (talk) 13:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The sources presented by Cielquiparle show that WP:NLIST is met: "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been." -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 11:07, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.