Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Line of succession to the former throne of Baden

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 07:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Line of succession to the former throne of Baden[edit]

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This throne has been defunct since 1918. WP:DEL-REASON 6: Articles that cannot possibly be attributed to reliable sources, including neologisms, original theories and conclusions, and articles that are themselves hoaxes (but not articles describing notable hoaxes). It is impossible to attribute the current line of succession to this throne to WP:RELIABLE sources, because there is no current line of succession, because the Grand Duchy itself doesn't even exist anymore. See also WP:NOTGENEALOGY. There are also WP:BLP concerns about the people who are listed here, including two minors.

So basically, the same reasons as the previous 20 lines of successions to defunct thrones that have been deleted recently (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20). TompaDompa (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. TompaDompa (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. TompaDompa (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. TompaDompa (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom --Devokewater@ 15:43, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Merge with List of rulers of Baden. As far as I can tell there are Reliable Sources within this article. The House of Baden still exists, it has a head of the House which is not some randomly decided position but one which is determined by a succession law. So what if the Grand Duchy does not exist? How did one become Grand Duke when it did (hence the list of rulers may be a suitable merge target)? If the Spanish monarchy gets abolished today does that succession article get deleted the day after then? Or does it suddenly become unsuitable after a year, or 2 or 50. I would say it would always be of relevance to have an article covering the topic, same with Baden and others that have been deleted. dwc lr (talk) 17:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- If the Spanish monarchy is abolished, its line of succession ceases being an encyclopaedic topic immediately, in much the same way as the line of succession to the Presidency of Barack Obama did at the end of his presidency. TompaDompa (talk) 19:27, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The topic of the overall succession mechanisms to the US presidency would not though, even if the post was abolished. Yet we are seeing an attempt to delete numerous articles. As I said on the Austro-Hungarian AFD if people have a problem with one area discuss it on the talk page. The only sensible contribution is from Kusma, not one single other participant has addressed any other part of the article, they seem fixated on one particular area, which is most bizarre. Are we discussing the entire article or are we discussing one section of it. All the AFDs have focused on one part. - dwc lr (talk) 07:44, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As the throne no longer exists, any "law" governing the succession of the "headship" of the House of Baden is an internal family affair and so this "line of succession" is pretty fictional. Merge pre-1918 content to List of rulers of Baden. —Kusma (t·c) 20:00, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - there are no rules by which someone can draw up such a list, without assuming that rules that were abolished are somehow still in operation. It is WP:OR / alternative history. Agricolae (talk) 22:08, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The current line of succession, which is the topic of this article, is sourced only to the 2008 edition of Debrett's Peerage. This 5-pound, 1000+-page book series is on the British royalty and nobility; as such, the extent of its information on a former German princely house is limited to how deeply it explores foreign collateral branches. It certainly isn't enough to demonstrate notability on its own (are all of the lineages listed in this book noteworthy?), so absent further independent coverage specifically on the current successorship positions, this article is unverifiable, non-notable OR. JoelleJay (talk) 23:09, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for all of the reasons mentioned above here. Futurist110 (talk) 06:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete For the reasons stated above. This is very WP:OR and stuff invented and assumed rather than being compiled from fact. doktorb _words^deeds 07:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - How can one be in line of succession to a throne, that no longer exists? GoodDay (talk) 11:09, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Margraves of Baden, which seems to be the noble title that they now use, even if it is now an empty title. We have articles on every British peerage, so why not German ones? Peterkingiron (talk) 13:42, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Because the English ones represent extant entities, with defined legal inheritance and concomitant (mostly non-voting) membership in the House of Lords, as opposed to just being 'titles the families now use'. A better comparison would be baronetages, which are essentially purchased inherited titles, but they likewise continue to be legally recognized entities in the nation in question. Agricolae (talk) 16:00, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.