Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kandor (comics)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Sandstein 10:59, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kandor (comics)[edit]

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Superman location. Expired PROD restored at REFUND and expanded, but sadly, it still seems to fail NFICTION/GNG. While it is now nicely referenced, it is still almost all PLOT plus a list of appearances in various media. Despite all the efforts to expand this, the reception section is limited to a three-sentence quotation, which seems to be about the entire extent of the literary analysis (if plot-speculation can be called this), which is unsurprising given that in the end this is a very obscure minor comic book location. If anyone cares (and I know some people do), I'd suggest copying parts of our articles to https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kandor so the work put into this is not wasted, but IMHO this topic is clearly not suited for Wikipedia per GNG/NFICTION (lacks significance as there is no in-depth coverage in non-primary sources outside plot summaries). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:38, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I haven't looked too much into additional sources, but I do want to point out that the Grant Morrison book Supergods (which despite its title and author, is actually a non-fiction book discussing the history and analysis of superhero comics, and is not a comic itself) currently used in the intro of the article is actually a good source that talks about it in a way that analyzes it beyond simple plot summary, and should be moved to the "Reception" section as part of that discussion. I also found this New York Times article that talks extensively about an art exhibition that was themed entirely around the fictional bottled city - though admittedly the information is more on the artist and the work than the location it was inspired by. Rorshacma (talk) 03:09, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The sources are almost entirely published non-fiction books, and there is discussion about both the larger themes and the creators' creative process. For example, this paragraph shows that writers have discussed Kandor as an important part of the way that Superman is characterized and understood:

The conceit helped to humanize the god-like Superman, and enrich his characterization. In Superman: The Complete History, Les Daniels observed, "Showing Superman so much at home in the bottle emphasized the extent to which he was as much an alien as an American." In Superman: The High-Flying History of America's Most Enduring Hero, Larry Tye said that Kandor "made clear that even Superman couldn't get everything he wanted, since there was nothing he wanted more than to restore the Kandorians to their rightful size."

Those are not plot descriptions; they're literary discussions of what Kandor means — to the character, and to the series.

There's also this paragraph:

Len Wein, writer of this final Kandor story, said in a 2006 interview that he regretted restoring the city to normal size. "Although I like the ending of the story, I'm sorry I did the story," he said. "I don't think that any of us realized at the time that what was old to us was new to somebody just coming in... I came at Kandor thinking: 'I'm so tired of this. It's been 20 years, 30 years, of that stupid city.' So I came up with a story I thought might have some emotional impact... I regret that, because the idea of a bottle city of tiny people is a much cooler idea than what I left it as."

That is one of the writers talking about his creative inspiration for the story, and how he evaluates it now. If you're looking at these and you don't see the difference between critique, real-world creative information and plot summary, then I think there's a problem with your understanding of what PLOT means. — Toughpigs (talk) 03:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP I see a notable art project created because of this. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/arts/design/review-mike-kelley-uncorks-supermans-kandor-city-in-a-bottle.html https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/01/art-review-mike-kelley-at-gagosian-gallery.html The art project alone gets significant coverage in reliable sources. This notable location is mentioned in comic book reviews and elsewhere at times. Dream Focus 05:05, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The art project may be notable, but the topic does not have to be. WP:NOTINHERITED. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:27, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The problem is there are too many search results for Kandor to sort through all of them. https://www.economist.com/1843/2015/09/25/the-dark-side-of-superman seems to give some mention to it, but most of the article is hidden behind a paywall. If you Google news search for "Kandor" and "superman" you get 2,350 results. Dream Focus 07:23, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - I actually subscribe to TE so I can read this. The article is about the art project; it does contain a plot summary of the city. Analysis is limited to the description of the city by the artist as “a perpetual reminder of his inability to escape the past, and his alienated relationship to his present world.” It's all in the second paragraph, everything else is about the artist and his exhibition. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:07, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

not much about it in my search results. Did you consider merging or redirecting? GizzyCatBella🍁 02:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That would be the same as deletion. Anything merged over would be deleted down to a single sentence like Source Wall was [1] Dream Focus 03:06, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Toughpigs. I can see both sides of the argument here, but I think Kandor is an important enough aspect of the Superman mythos to warrant an article, and it contains enough real-world analysis and is not all plot. Rhino131 (talk) 10:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There's no pleasing some people. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:29, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by the above comment? It seems like you have no arguments to keep the article..GizzyCatBella 🍁 01:54, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have time to search for sources right now, but at minimum it should be merged to List of locations of the DC Universe. It's undeniably notable within the fiction and should have some coverage here. Argento Surfer (talk) 11:39, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Toughpigs rationale Lightburst (talk) 14:56, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.