Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ginger Hall

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. There were a range of opinions expressed including delete, keep, and merge. In my view neither of those positions had sufficient support after three weeks of listing for a convincing consensus to be claimed, hence the no consensus close. Michig (talk) 16:16, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ginger Hall[edit]

Ginger Hall (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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No evidence of notability. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:53, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete It seems like this list of points on the TT course would be better done as a list, rather than a bunch of articles without much to say. If the points on the course have enough outside notability for an article, they should have one; if they have notability in relation to the race, that can be discussed in the race article. Brianyoumans (talk) 17:41, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:14, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:15, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The meagre content of this 'article' is a disgrace, but should be easily expanded as it's historically a sigificant viewing point. Regrettably, I moved-on through ebay some years back all of my stuff post-1979 including some copious course guides and I'm not confident of turning anything 1960s up in the house.

    The Isle of Man government in conjunction with TV coverage have invested heavily to provide programming on free-to-air channels and the TV commentators regularly mention any TT course vantage point when adding voice-overs, often to footage from on-bike cameras and heli-cam. Therefore the main vantage points should have searchable separate articles, IMO. The main structure has already been established, so it would be counter-productive to delete a few - the three which have been proposed for deletion would rate at 11-20 on a scale of importance starting at 1, but I would also advocate that some should be consolidated, eg Bedstead Corner to be combined with nearby The Nook, Isle of Man as a prime candidate being historic but minor, not major viewing points.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 19:41, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have now had the opportunity to go through contributions to ascertain that the same editor has nominated for deletion - or intends to nominate - many more TT Course locations than I originally surmised.

From the AfD list below, the majority are arguably 'world famous'; the other three are minor and could be retained and merged into preceding and following locations as appropriate, with name-changes and redirects. The standard of the content is often poor.


Gardener's Lane
Ballahutchin Hill
Glenlough

User @Agljones: has striven, along with others, to establish articles which should be retained and improved. Using the catch-all ploy of 'notability' is inappropriate where consecutive historic physical localities are involved.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:53, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Notability is not a "catch-all ploy", it is "a generally accepted standard". As for your fatuous claim to have "ascertained my intentions"..! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:18, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz talk 12:43, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the work done on the article by Rocknrollmancer. Artw (talk) 23:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • There has indeed been a minor amount of work done on the article, but nowhere does it evidence notability of this "uphill left-hand bend". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:22, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • At the risk of repeating myself, this is one location in a consecutive series; taking it to a play-on-words is pushing AGF. As I have stated elsewhere, writers do not write with the intention of providing exact encyclopedic quotes for an online portal to clone from, often many years later. Wikipedia is by the people, for the people. Denying notability relating to the article's origins is again pushing AGF. It's not simply a corner-shop location, evidenced by Geograph and Commons images. Ginger Hall is not itemised on the 1973 circuit guide I managed to find in the house, but neither are many others. The quote is "Sulby Bridge! Tight right hander leading to Ginger Hall...". Wasting far too much time, 10 or so articles already, what next?? Frankly, I am dismayed but that's the way WP is going with editors being deterred.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • WTF does "Wikipedia is by the people, for the people" add to the discussion? Questioning the notability of an "uphill left-hand bend" is not a breach of WP:AGF. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Diffs from the nominating editor dated 3 November on landmark TT locations - the whole doesn't work with pieces of the jigsaw missing.
    Sulby - "rm infobox, pending its deletion"
    B'garrow - "replace infobox, pending its deletion"
    Glen Vine - "rm infobox, pending its deletion"--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:00, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • WP:AGF has not been suspended. The "its" in "its deletion" refers to {{Infobox Isle of Man TT course}}, not the articles. It's also tiresome to see that you've posted the above at multiple locations. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • I already figured that out; articles can have more than one infobox. Where there is a village article existing, it needs a section developing, deletion is not the way forward. As stated, I don't have the time to do it; I can envisage the format of improvements, but it's unlikely to eventuate with the risk of one individual making a unilateral decision to delete and it's too much trouble for others to get involved in. Once again, Wikipedia is the sufferer.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: It's a mere pretty bend in the road; if this stays, I have a couple thousand like this in Montana I could create. Not a Dead Man's Curve, nothing particularly notable other than a pretty view as far as I can see. Merge to A14 or create Sulby Road. Montanabw(talk) 20:08, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to something larger, such as List of attractions on the TT course, with the single attractions as searchable redirects. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:36, 12 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merge with redirects as suggested by Gerda Arendt. The redirects can be re-expanded at a later date when sufficient material is developed for a full article. And the IoM navbox will still work. Brianhe (talk) 16:29, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Can't this be merged into a larger article (as suggested by the two editors immediately above)? I'd not like to see the information lost but it does seem a bit strange to have a stub article about a bend in a road used for a vantage point during a race. A14 road (Isle of Man) is currently a redirect and thus available. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹Speak 10:06, 16 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 13:18, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - A not particularly notable corner on a road that happens to be used for motor racing a couple of times a year. In comparison to Eau Rouge/Radillon at Spa, and the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca, this corner is not remotely notable... and those corners wouldn't be given their own article. A lot of people who don't follow the big motorsports will still know Eau Rouge and the Corkscrew, but Ginger Hall? No, not remotely. Using primary sources to claim that it is a major vantage point isn't going to help the keep !voters' arguments. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 15:59, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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