Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ermina Zaenah

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Withdrawn. WP:TROUT me for this one, I am apparently hilariously bad at reading cursive. (non-admin closure)‎ Allan Nonymous (talk) 15:32, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ermina Zaenah[edit]

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This is a pretty close case here, but having reviewed the sources both here and on Indonesian Wikipedia, I feel there is a case for delete. WP:GNG is failed as only one of the cited sources (iNews.ID) seems to cover her in depth. With respect to WP:NACTOR, I can only find her appearing in three films with billing. Two of them are not notable enough to be covered in eng-wiki~~, and one of them is... weird. (In Supir Istimewa, she is mentioned in the "plot" section as a major role despite not appearing on the billing)~~. This is a pretty close case but I feel it wouldn't hurt to at least open an AfD. Allan Nonymous (talk) 14:24, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Allan, do you speak Indonesian? Have you located and reviewed the offline sources that are already cited in the article (Ardan 2004, Biran 1979, etc.)? Is there some reason to doubt that they are evidence of notability? Your nomination rationale here is better than some of your other Indonesian film nominations, but still doesn't answer these relevant questions. Jfire (talk) 15:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Biran 1979 is effectively a directory of people in Indonesian cinema, it can be useful in establishing notability, but not much else. I assumed generously that the Ardan 2004 established a limited notability, but even then, that is two out of the general three we use as a standard test for notability. Allan Nonymous (talk) 16:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, and Indonesia. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:22, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Meets WP:Nactor-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: "This is a pretty close case but I feel it wouldn't hurt to at least open an AfD" is in my opinion the wrong way to be going about this. Opening an AfD means that it's possible that a notable article is deleted, just because the people who have expertise in Indonesian cinema don't happen to chime in this week. It definitely "hurts" the encyclopedia to lose articles on notable subjects. I think that is an irresponsible way to treat this process. Toughpigs (talk) 21:55, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If Die, irrelevant Indonesian people articles. (see here) is the spirit of these recent numerous nominations of Indonesia-related articles, I agree with you that this is not the way the Afd process should be approached. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 23:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes WP:NACTRESS and WP:GNG. A pretty strong indicator of her notability is she has a biographical entry in Sinematek Indonesia Association (1979). "Ermina Zaenah". Apa siapa orang film Indonesia, 1926-1978. Yayasan Artis Film : Sinematik Indonesia. p. 167. Sadly it is only available in snippet view, but its clear she is a significant actress in Indonesian cinema based on her having an entry in this reference work on Indonesian cinema.4meter4 (talk) 22:48, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and WP:TROUT nom. Zaenah is still getting coverage today (see this and this, both found with a quick Google search). That's pretty remarkable for an actress whose last film credit was decades ago. Even if these didn't exist, the fact that she starred in several classic Indonesian films and the fact that she was featured in Apa Siapa Orang Film Indonesia is more than enough to tell you that offline coverage should exist. Nom should slow down their AFD nominations and ask around (maybe at WikiProject Film or WikiProject Indonesia) before nominating articles on Indonesian entertainers. Somebodyidkfkdt (talk) 02:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Nom has clearly failed to do their due diligence. Her filmography is already cited in the article, and contains significantly more than three films; as I have mentioned elsewhere, the Indonesian film database is a continuation of JB Kristanto's printed catalogue, and is reliable enough to have been cited in featured articles. The fact that few of those films have Wikipedia articles so far is not an indication that they are not notable, but rather that nobody has written them yet. With the paucity of digital references on 1950s Indonesian cinema, and Wikipedia's well known FUTON bias, that shouldn't surprise anyone.

As for the Supir Istimewa billing - E. Zaenah is literally the first name on the advertisement in the article. She wasn't unbilled - she had top billing. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 11:10, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, I can't read. Thanks for pointing this out. Will strike that. Allan Nonymous (talk) 12:14, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.