Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atlas (musician)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 01:15, 16 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Atlas (musician)[edit]

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Atlas (musician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Article fails WP:NMUSIC. Appears to be an autobiography (per photo credits), and makes claims that are not supported by the sources. Promotional Claims, for example "international recognition" but provides no sources to corroborate that claim. Vexations (talk) 19:52, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(Oppose/Keep) Article is not autobiographical, photos were shared by the artist and uploaded for reference. Article has been corrected to meet the WP:NMUSIC conditions and will continue to be sourced accordingly, unfortunately claims of "international recognition" come from music blogs such as an artictle about a song "Vapor" by Atlas [1] from Indieshuffle, that does not meet the citation requirements and so therefore it has been removed.(Oppose/Keep)Kolourz (talk) 20:20, 8 October 2018 (UTC)Kolourz Thank you Vexations for bring this to my attention and my apologies for undoing any of your edits this is my first article on Wikipedia and I am still getting the hang of it.[reply]

@Kolourz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(musician)#/media/File:Atlas_in_2016.jpg was created by claims "Zachary King - Own work" and links Zachary King to Commons:User:Kolourz. If Kolourz is not Zachary King, then the claim that the photo is his own work is incorrect. The exif data shows Copyright 2016 Kolourz. All rights reserved. Please clarify.

(Oppose/Keep)::Due to the fact the artist Zachary King also know as Atlas shared the photos for reference I attributed them to him as the copyright holder in the shared commons licensing [2], but it was also my first time uploading photos to Wikicommons and I may have misunderstood the process. From what I read, they would be considered creative commons to be free to share and download, and therefore weren't protected by copyright. I can ask for permission if the copyright needs to be under my username Kolourz. Please help me understand this process better, thank you for your time.Kolourz (talk) 22:25, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Kolourz[reply]

Kolourz I'll try to explain the issue with the copyright and attribution on your talk page as it has no bearing on the notability of the musician, which is the topic of this nomination for deletion. --Vexations (talk) 23:16, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(Oppose/Keep)Vexations Could you define what makes an artist "notable" from a creditable source? I am just concered it might be subjective since you're the only one who has made this claim, and marked the page for deletion right after I accidently undid one of your edits. Thanks Kolourz (talk) 23:30, 8 October 2018 (UTC) Kolourz[reply]

Sure. There are two guidelines that are relevant here: The first is the general notability guideline and the second is the subject-specific notability guideline, WP:NMUSIC. We require sources that are independent of the subject as well as reliable that provide in-depth coverage of the subject. In other words; we need to see that more than one competent person, not just some random person on the internet, has written a serious piece about Atlas that critically analyses his work. As far as I can tell, that hasn't been the case. If you haven't read it yet, please read Wikipedia:Help, my article got nominated for deletion! --Vexations (talk) 01:53, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(Oppose/Keep)Vexations One might equate that the username Vexations, which by definition is "the act of harassing or vexing : TROUBLING" [3] another person or thing, could explain the motive behind Vexations marking the page for deletion as retaliation under the guise of "notability". Which would be in direct violation of the Wikipedia AFD guidelines. Tealeaf90 (talk) 02:05, 9 October 2018 (UTC) tealeaf90[reply]

Tealeaf90 If you think my user name is in violation of policy, Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention is the venue where you'd address that. Go right ahead, but please read Vexations first. This nomination is not "retaliation" for anything. I bear no animus towards anyone involved. The nomination results from my assessment as a page reviewer that the article lacks sources that establish the subject's notability. --Vexations (talk) 02:24, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(Oppose/Keep)Vexations I am referring to the manner in which you nominated the page for deletion, looking at the view history it corroborates what Kolourz stated. If you were genuine about the assessment, why not nominate the article for deletion first, not after he accidentally undid your edit. Secondly, it does put Kolourz in a troubling or vexing situation, with all of the work now up for deletion, based on one reviewers opinion of the article. For new users, Wikipedia can be a hard and unforgiving platform to navigate, I hope your intentions are well and not to discourage others from being on the site. Tealeaf90 (talk) 03:28, 9 October 2018 (UTC)tealeaf90[reply]

(Oppose/Keep)Vexations On the topic of "Notability" although the musician Zachary King also known as Atlas, might not have enough citable sources on Wikipedia yet. He has gained notability performing throughout the Southeastern United States. He's performed with notable Grammy nominated acts like Bonobo, Nightmares on Wax, Minnesota, and more. Publications shouldn't be the only qualifying factor in a musicians recognition or notability. According to the Wikipedia:Help, my article got nominated for deletion! "If you think you've met those standards but the improvements took place after most people finished discussion, one final option is Wikipedia:Deletion review. You can also request the article to be moved into userspace or into draftspace, (especially in the case of subjects that are not yet notable, but will likely become notable in the near future)." This would be an option I'd preferably like to avoid for the Atlas (musician) article , he is building recognition and is notable to a demographic. Kolourz (talk) 04:04, 9 October 2018 (UTC)Kolourz[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.indieshuffle.com/atlas-vapor/
  2. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(musician)#/media/File:Atlas_in_2016.jpg
  3. ^ https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vexation
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 23:37, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 23:37, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Doesn't satisfy any of the criteria of WP:NMUSIC. --Michig (talk) 06:06, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. At best WP:TOOSOON per Kolourz (talk) comments above. As it stands now, there simply are not significant, reliable independent sources to verify notability. The references provided consist of user submitted content. ShelbyMarion (talk) 14:54, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In fairness, "Atlas" as a word makes it difficult find info connected to this subject. However, nothing related to "Zachary King" turns up, either. ShelbyMarion (talk) 14:57, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Has got a few decent support slots but notability is not inherited from the main acts. Lacks coverage in independent reliable sources. Not there yet. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:04, 10 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Shows supporting credible sources, has artist page Atlas Music on Facebook verfied [1] notes "Zachary King" as sole band member. Kolourz (talk) 01:47, 13 October 2018 (UTC) Kolourz[reply]
Please see WP:ATA#CRYSTAL for why "will be notable in the near future" is an argument to avoid in avoid in deletion discussions. Facebook is a self-published, primary source, per WP:FACEBOOK. Vexations (talk) 01:56, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep AllMusic [2] is a highly regarded independent reliable source for finding composer credits, and a musician must be qualified by their requirements before being cited on the platform. Also Zachary Jarrett King is a SESAC [3] song-writer affiliate which is a perfoming rights organization that is invitation only, which would make him a notable composer and credible song-writer by their organizations standards Maroon 5, Adele, and One Republic are also SESAC affiliates. Tealeaf90 (talk) 04:29, 13 October 2018 (UTC)tealeaf90[reply]
  • Delete Unfortunately neither AllMusic nor SESAC are part of the WP:NMUSIC notability criteria. Per the allmusic website, TiVo adds products and other materials to their databases at their discretion, with no indication of what that criteria is, and further goes on to state that TiVo tries to add recordings and review as many CDs possible, but can't make any promises about which artists and titles will receive an enhanced level of editorial coverage.. This does not seem to indicate any exhaustive review of notability, but rather that they review any and all submissions as they get around to it. According to SESAC's web page, they have 30,000 such affiliates. Certainly some (like Adele, Bob Dylan, and Neil Diamond) are notable. But we don't know what criteria they use, nor is there a comprehensive listing of affiliates for us to even guess at what their unpublished criteria for invitation are. At present we only have WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC to go by, and I have to agree with Vexations and ShelbyMarion that this level of coverage doesn't exist yet. Perhaps it will someday, but for right now I'd say WP:TOOSOON. CThomas3 (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is correct. Allmusic, per multiple source reviews, can be (though not always) reliable for those profile entries containing career biographic information written by staff writers. However, simple listings--such as in this case--are the result of any music released for sale, compiled by the Rovi/TiVo database. Such credits are common and can be user submitted. In such cases, it is not a significant source for proving notability. ShelbyMarion (talk) 21:24, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ http://www.facebook.com/atlasmusic
  2. ^ https://www.allmusic.com/artist/zachary-jarrett-king-mn0003746331
  3. ^ https://www.sesac.com
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