Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arnold Air Society

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 05:54, 20 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Arnold Air Society[edit]

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There's some of verifiable information, but the best coverage I found is the two features in local publications listed in the article-- I don't see enough to merit an article here. Not a reason for deletion, but the article as it stood until I came upon it looked like this for over 12 years-- clearly COI editing that shouldn't be allowed to stick around. There's a vast amount of junk press releases that come up on ProQuest and most of my other databases, so there may be some coverage that I missed. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:24, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 17:50, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 17:50, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 17:50, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fraternities and sororities-related deletion discussions. Jax MN (talk) 22:44, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep there are enough mentions in Google books to establish GNG/NCORP. There are also many articles (example) published by the universities where the chapters operate. The Air Force itself, which is of course not independent of the subject, has published significant coverage on the Society. There is also coverage in many university guides that talk about fraternities (example). Coverage may not be ideal, but after 73 years of it, I think it is convincing enough to say that it exists and is minimally notable .Possibly (talk) 19:33, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My opinion is that if after 73 years the best coverage that exists is universities covering their local chapters, Air Force coverage that's essentially glorified press releases, and university guides (which I'm not convinced are reliable/independent), that is even more indication of non-notability than if it had been formed more recently with comparable coverage. While I agree that it exists, I'm still not seeing the bar of WP:NORG being cleared. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 20:04, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

University guides are independent coverage. Student newspaper coverage of what happens on a campus is not independent by nature, but at the same time it is not written by the Air force or by the Arnold Air Society. There is a lot of both student newspaper coverage and coverage by university guides, as well as the occasional local newspaper article Possibly (talk) 20:56, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but is there any coverage that passes WP:AUD besides the university guides and air force articles? I'm not seeing any. I also wouldn't consider inclusion in a 1200 page compendium to be indicative of notability unless you would argue that there are literally thousands of notable fraternities at American colleges just because they are included in a guide and covered by the colleges they are active at. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:13, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going mainly on what I have linked above, what is actually in the article, the incidence of the coverage in Google books, and finally the age of the organization making it highly likely that more coverage exists in local newspapers. Now, I cannot see the full results in Google as it is often in snippet form. I have no stake in this subject really, so If you wanted to propose a merge with Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps, aka the AFROTC, I would not be adverse to that. There is also the question of what to do with the related Silver Wings (service organization), which seems to be more of a promotional effort than this article. Possibly (talk) 21:29, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that makes sense-- I wouldn't be opposed to merging there, but let's wait and see where the AFD goes. Cheers, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 22:29, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -- I restored some of the information recently blanked, and updated several references that had gone bad. I also added a link to the popular reference book on collegiate societies, Baird's Manual, which has a three-page section on the Society. Clearly, with over 150 active squadrons (~chapters), thousands of active participants and tens of thousands of alumni it is active, and notable. Some of the Fraternity and Sorority Project participants are engaging more actively on groups like this which we've adopted; any that are in Baird's are considered by us to of merit for the Project. I'll agree that activity in the 2015 to early 2020 period was lagging. Hopefully that is now being addressed. Meanwhile, I added an infobox among other improvements. I hope it will be up to snuff now. Jax MN (talk) 22:26, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:18, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 14:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It has some fluff, but having worked with Air Force ROTC I can say AAS is alive and well. Many of the sources for AAS info, especially the historical stuff, aren't necessarily online. Silver Wings started as the female auxiliary of AAS, but there have been periodic attempts to revive it. I don't know that a merge with AFROTC is advisable...AAS's relationship with AFROTC is very similar to the relationship of the Air Force Association with the Air Force (and its relationship with the AFA is mentioned in the article itself). If a merge is contemplated, the AFA article would be a better candidate as AAS is in essence its student auxillary. Intothat darkness 15:50, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: In addition to the existing sources cited in the article, there is newspaper coverage: for example, "Cadets remember missing soldiers", Sioux Falls Argus-Leader, Nov 10 1990. — Toughpigs (talk) 16:49, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.