Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/African Distillers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 19:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

African Distillers[edit]

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This doesn't seem to be notable since the article lacks sourcing and all I could find about it in a WP:BEFORE was a trivial article about their profits. So, I'm not seeing anything here like multiple in-depth reliable secondary sources that it would need to pass WP:GNG or WP:NCORP. Plus, the article is kind of advertish. Adamant1 (talk) 04:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 04:46, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Zimbabwe-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 04:46, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Afdis is one of the biggest drinks manufacturers in Zimbabwe. It's one of just 63 companies listed on the ZSE and a quick look at its market capital suggests it's about the 25th biggest company in the entire country. Bad-patches (talk) 20:29, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 01:58, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify. Per WP:PUBLIC, significant coverage in reliable sources is almost certainly available, we just need more time for editors to find those reliable sources and add them to the article. UnitedStatesian (talk) 02:13, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Large, publicly-traded company in Zimbabwe that produces about 3/4 of the country's wine. It doesn't attract the same kind of North American press coverage that an American or European company would, although I found two American newspaper stories following an import push in 1989: one article from the national syndicate Howard Scripps News Services, and another article from the Arizona Daily Star. I believe that this demonstrates notability. — Toughpigs (talk) 18:06, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this is a notable company, certainly through out Southern Africa, which listed on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange satisfies WP:NCOMPANY --Devokewater@ 12:56, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Being listed is not an automatic indication of notability - see WP:LISTED. Usually a listed company features in analyst reports but no analysts cover this company. Toughpigs provided two references. The first from the Star Tribune is no good, it simply contains two quotes from a company executive and nothing else, fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND. The second reference contains exactly one relevant sentence - enough to confirm the existence of the company and little else - and also fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND. Similarly, Bad-patches reference is entirely based on an interview with the company's Director of Trade and has no independent content, also fails WP:ORGIND. I have searched and I am unable to locate a single reference that meets the criteria for establishing notability. The best I found was a book entitled Multinationals and the Restructering of the World Economy by Michael Taylor and Nigel Thrift which has a chapter on "South African Breweries Limited" and mentions this company. Multiple sources are required. As such, topic fails GNG/WP:NCORP. HighKing⁺⁺ 15:37, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This non-trivial 50-page report on the company was just published and is highly likely to meet WP:CORPDEPTH; that it costs US$499 makes that no less true. UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, per HighKing. Trivial mentions are not sufficient to maintain an article on any company. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fails both CORPDEPTH and SIGCOV. I likewise see nothing here to meet WP:COMPANY, HighKing is right: WP:COMPANY explicitly says that being listed on the NYSE doesn't confer notability, never mind in the Zimbabwean exchange. Finally, there is nothing in any relevant notability criterion exempting Zimbabwean companies from their requirements. If this subject hasn't achieved SIGCOV, the answer is that it does not qualify for an article. Ravenswing 11:29, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep - Going to err on the side of keep here. There are a ton of sources (if you haven't yet, use "Afdis" as your search term), but I'm not terribly familiar with sources from Zimbabwe. It's clear that it has a major economic presence in the country, and I think it's just less common to have sources write about consumer products in the same way that's common as in e.g. the US. So it's not surprising that most of the coverage is business/trade-oriented. I'm throwing "weak" in front of keep mainly because I'm not sure about the reputation of these sources, and there seems some potential for basis on press releases and/or qualify as "routine", but here's some of what I see: NewsDay, Chronicle, Sunday News, Business Weekly, The Standard, Business Times, Zimbabwe Independent, Sunday Mail, Equity Axis. It's a tough one. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 18:35, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: This is a large, company traded on the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange not the NYSE however I am inclined to stretch the guideline of WP:LISTED. This distiller also has 6 locations. Not Napa Valley but notable. Passes WP:N Lightburst (talk) 02:35, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP Rhododendrites found enough coverage to confirm notability. Dream Focus 13:59, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: All distilleries are always notable. Plus when considering Rhododendrites sources I believe this passes notability. // Timothy :: talk 19:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Whilst there has been a considerable number of submissions, the sources cited relatively late in the debate deserve proper consideration.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 12:01, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Sustained trivial mentions in reports, news articles. QueerEcofeminist^{"cite! even if you fight"!!!} [they/them/their] 00:52, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Producing 3/4th of the country's wine (per Toughpigs) is a strong indicator of notability. We should not expect US-standard sourcing to be readily available online for a Zimbabwean company. SD0001 (talk) 10:19, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No one here is expecting US-standards based sourcing to exist and it's ridiculous to claim we do. Let alone to try and act like articles about US subjects are the only ones that can meet such a low freaken bar as having two in-depth sources about them. Anywhere in the world should be able to meet that standard and it doesn't have jack to do with the US. It probably wasn't people in the US who came up with the guideline in the first place. American's aren't the only ones that speak English. Also, it's totally the soft bigotry of low exceptions to hold Zimbabwean companies to a lower standard then companies from anywhere else just "because Zimbabwe." There's plenty of extremely well sourced articles about Zimbabwean companies in Wikipedia. Including Old Mutual, Ecobank Zimbabwe, Bindura Nickel Corporation, etc etc, just to name a few. Not every damn article about something in Africa should be kept just because voters like you and ToughPigs have a slanted, clearly wrong opinion about the place. Some things, no matter where they are located, are just not notable. That's life, get over it and stop blaming Africans or Zimbabweans because something isn't notable (that mostly goes for ToughPigs, but also anyone else that feels like calling Africa about the level of journalism there. Whatever it is). --Adamant1 (talk) 12:39, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.