Jump to content

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2024 Trump rally at Madison Square Garden

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. WP:SNOWCLOSE before any more personal attacks happen and some editors start facing sanctions. There is a clear consensus that, at this time, this is a notable event, there is plenty of reliable sourcing and if the article is not neutral, that can be improved through careful editing.

No penalty on a return trip to AFD in a few months to consider a Redirect or Merge. But please do not turn around tomorrow and renominate this article because this is a decisive closure and another AFD would come to the same outcome. Liz Read! Talk! 06:11, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Trump rally at Madison Square Garden

[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

2024 Trump rally at Madison Square Garden (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:TOOSOON. We don't need a page for every rally held during an election season, only if they are particularly notable (i.e. his rally in Butler, PA). I don't see anything that makes this one specifically notable; sure, there's been plenty coverage on the bizzare racist remarks made at it but that happens every time. CoconutOctopus talk 15:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy that this article has been improved enough to keep; if coverage does fizzle out in future then we can relist but consensus is for Keep. I'd close myself but as there's a few Draftify votes I can't. CoconutOctopus talk 07:28, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. Let’s wait until we get more information about the rally to put into the article.
Considering Tony Hinchecliffe’s comments could potentially cost Trump Pennsylvania, I think this rally will be looked back on as as a major event in the election.
I think the article should stay. ZachM097 (talk) 15:44, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but Wait until after the election concludes before re-assessing it's notability. Let's not rush to delete an article with plenty of coverage based on lack of WP:LASTING notability which may very well develop. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:48, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now per GeorgeMemulous and Great Mercian, too soon to say it's not notable. HappyWith (talk) 18:11, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I think we should be able to get a close now. Seems like no way it’s gonna get deleted now. HappyWith (talk) 14:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify is the best solution IMO if there are concerns about WP:TOOSOON IMO.
-1ctinus📝🗨 18:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Important rally with huge political blowback, covered heavier than most by the media. Personisinsterest (talk) 20:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This rally has gained substantial coverage in reliable secondary sources. CJ-Moki (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify Right now, the premise of the article follows Democratic Party rhetoric that seems to be false. Specifically, that the location of the rally was somehow an intentional callback to the 1939 rally, a sentiment spearheaded by Hillary Clinton before the rally even started, and thereby the content of the rally can be assumed to be racist. But nothing in coverage suggests that there was directly racist language at the rally. Comments by Tony Hinchcliffe are, as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said on Twitter, was merely crude humor, that it's problematic nature was the context of Donald Trump's poor handling of Puerto Rico. Furthermore, even the comedian noted that the crowd was not enjoying his comedy ("this is a groan-y little crowd tonight"), and surrounding information indicates that the sentiments were not representative of the rally's purpose. While other speakers did say problematic things about the value of IQ, none of it was related to race. Neither were comments about illegal immigrants being largely composed of criminals necessarily racist, as the false narrative that illegal immigrants are largely composed of criminals does not issue directly from race. Essentially, the notability of the article is based from in-direct or objectively false claims, even if they do come from sources that are normally credible. But clearly not credible in this case, as not one of the sources was capable of giving a single example of racist language at the rally. If their articles were Wikipedia articles, we'd have to stick some [be specific] and [clarify] tags around statements that we are here using as a source. The fact that nobody noticed this is worrying to me. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 20:29, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep, with the important concession that the article must be restructured to draw greater attention to the historical paralells with Hitler’s Nuremberg rallies, which are the primary reason for the rally’s notability. The rally is notable for its open, unapologetic endorsement of Nazism and fascism by Trump and was regarded as such by virtually all mainstream commentators all of which used the words “Nazi” and “Fascist” in discussing the rally. Since this is precisely what makes the rally notable according to reliable sources, we must reorient the article to reflect the analogy to the 1939 nazi rally at MSG and Hitler’s nuremberg rallies, similar events which also have their own articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fearless Speech (talk • contribs) 21:08, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was no open endorsement of Nazism or fascism by Trump or any of the rally's speakers. That news articles used the word Nazi and Fascist is because of Hillary Clinton's drawing the parallel as a diminutive, not because there was a serious reason to draw the parallel. IronMaidenRocks (talk) 21:27, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This rally was more significant than Trump's other rallies and has strong parallels to the 1939 Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden. Additionally, this rally was unique in that it was not designed for campaigning but rather to activate Trump's base for after the election. MattEditor02 (talk) 22:24, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify - WIKIPEDIA:NOTNEWS WIKIPEDIA:CRYSTAL The comments made at this rally were certainly horrendous and inexcusable, but this is not the first (or final) rally where Trump or his guest speakers have made notably bigoted comments which have been reported in the media. It is possible that this rally will continue to be discussed in the media and it may even have lasting impacts on the 2024 election (October Surprise perhaps), but until that can be definitively demonstrated or reported on, I don't think it merits having an article. Flangalanger (talk) 22:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am willing to change my stance to Weak Keep, as the article has been rewritten to include more sources and now has actual meat to it. That said, the section about Tony Hinchcliffe's speech is a pretty significant chunk of the article and if coverage of this rally fizzles out in a day or two, then I think merging it into Hinchcliffe's article would be acceptable, too. Flangalanger (talk) 02:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - front page coverage on just about every major newspaper. Guettarda (talk) 00:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You do realize Basket of deplorables is a Good article on Wikipedia, yeah? ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i've seen this guy's last account get banned Nohorizonss (talk) 05:17, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
lets see more bombastic rallies or another coup attempt Nohorizonss (talk) 05:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't delete an article because you believe the coverage surrounding it to be overblown. If anything, that is a strong indictment for keeping the article. 80.1.141.100 (talk) 13:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - The article is certainly relevant at the moment. Whether or not it will remain relevant may decide whether it should remain as a permanent article. That can not be decided before the rally's actual impact on the election has been considered. I do have concerns about the statement that "top Trump advisors Mark Milley, John Kelly and Jim Mattis had recently described Trump in such terms." when the citation, and general knowledge, refer only to John Kelly making such a statement.
Freeholdman12 (talk) 15:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
   The move to remove the article when it is currently relevant appears to be politically motivated.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:547:CA00:D600:5D56:5EA4:34E0:419D (talk) 06:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They wrote a letter recently Nohorizonss (talk) 06:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, but way to assume bad faith! CoconutOctopus talk 07:23, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2024_Trump_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden&oldid=1254487674"