This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Welcome!
Hi Maddy from Celeste! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.
As you get started, you may find this short tutorial helpful:
Hi there, Maddy from Celeste, and welcome to Women in Red. It's good to see you intend to help us with coverage of activists. I see you have already created a short biography in this connection. If you have not already done so, you might like to look through our Ten Simple Rules. As you are fluent in a number of languages, you might be interested in contributing to our upcoming translation contest. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 06:11, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
Anarchism
Hi Maddy from Celeste,
I saw your work on articles related to anarchism and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to watch our noticeboard for Wikipedia's coverage of anarchism, which is a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to anarchism. Take a look for yourself!
Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Hope to see you around. czar 03:02, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Thanks - but also ...
Hi! I wanted to thank you for your recent edits preventing vandalism. However, I also noticed, per WP:SIGAPP, your signature is not currently comfortably readable. Please either change the color used or the background used. Thanks! :) Réunion (talk to me) 20:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Much better, thanks so much! :) Réunion (talk to me) 20:21, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
On that signature: being so long, and highlighted, it tends to dominate any talk page to which you contribute (as here) and make it more difficult for other editors to read the discussion. I wonder if you'd consider trimming it down a little? Thanks. PamD 07:56, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
I've shortened it a bit, thanks for pointing that out! --Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk 08:52, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
Better, thanks - but highlighted backgrounds always seem a bit "look at me", don't you think? And even when shorter, it does make it quite distracting for people reading talk pages. Thanks, anyway. PamD 18:14, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
May Women in Red events
Women in Red May 2022, Vol 8, Issue 5, Nos 214, 217, 227, 229, 230
Hi Maddy from Celeste! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, Google Books vs. Open Library, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.
Hello, I noticed that you may have recently made edits to Aravalli Range while logged out. Wikipedia's policy on multiple accounts usually does not allow the use of both an account and an IP address by the same person in the same setting and doing so may result in your account being blocked from editing. Additionally, making edits while logged out reveals your IP address, which may allow others to determine your location and identity. If this was not your intention, please remember to log in when editing. Thank you. Sajaypal007 (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
@Sajaypal007: That IP isn't mine. I saw their edit on recent changes and decided to swoop in and fix the link. ;; Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk 14:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Women in Red in July 2022
Women in Red July 2022, Vol 8, Issue 7, Nos 214, 217, 234, 235
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Thank you
Thank you for reverting that misgendering on Gwen Araujo's page. As a trans woman that means a lot to me! Awesome to see another trans editor :D Stephanie921 (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Hell fucking yeah! Lovely to meet you 😊 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephanie921 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Ole Martin Moen
Thanks for catching that. I did a quick google and found lots of articles regarding that. I was a bit surprised at the lack of major news sources. I should have checked further. It appears Moen made some observations Forbes article and the nuts took off with it. Thank again! Adakiko (talk) 09:18, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
when concerned about a user's lack of communication, communicating to them using the words "going straight to level 4im" or similar technical terms isn't going to help them.
Best regards, ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:03, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Yup, my bad. Thanks for the reminder! ;; Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk 19:16, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
No worries, thank you very much for dealing with promotion.
They might be a paid editor; I've asked them about this now. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
By the way, for future cases like this, is AIV the right venue or does it belong on a noticeboard like ANI or NPOVN? ;; Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk 19:24, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Hmm, NPOVN is more about article content. I'd use NPOVN if the case is less clear and/or I seem to be arguing against many others. NPOVN (or WP:BLPN) can then be helpful to attract the attention of experienced users who can help to enforce policies by editing the article content or joining a talk page discussion. There's also WP:COIN, but it's for "determining if" someone has a COI, which isn't really debatable in Uitvlugtandci's case. As Uitvlugtandci has clearly edit warred (including their IP edits), WP:ANEW would probably have been ideal. WP:ANI catches all other cases.
I'm not really complaining about you having used AIV, though; many users do so to quickly gain administrator attention, and your report did lead to administrative action, so I can't complain about this. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Just thought I'd say hi
Nice to bump into another trans Wikimedian. Seems like there's more of us than I thought. KaraLG84 (talk) 21:03, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
There are a lot if you look hard enough. Even a few administrators. casualdejekyll 23:10, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Uppercase or lowercase?
After your closure of the RM discussion at Talk:Less Than Zero (The Weeknd song), one of the two involved titles currently has "Than" with uppercase and the other one has "than" with lowercase. Did you intend it to come out that way? The capitalization question was part of that discussion, but was not mentioned in your closing summary, and I want to know if there is any conclusion about that aspect. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
@BarrelProof I didn't touch the other one since it was done by another editor; now that you mention it, though, I'll move it to follow the same convention. ;; Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk 16:33, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. I suggest to also amend your closing remarks to explicitly describe your conclusion (or lack of conclusion) about the capitalization. I plan to submit a multi-article RM for all remaining uppercase topics, so it is important to me to have clarity about the outcome of that RM on the capitalization question. That outcome will be the basis of my upcoming RM. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:42, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
Will do! ;; Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk 16:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
The majority of Adıyaman's population is not Kurdish, the majority of the population is Turks, another majority is Zazas, only the range village is a predominantly Kurdish place.
@Burtigin I really am not involved in this issue at all. I just saw you delete information about Kurds in Turkey without any explanation, so I reverted it. You should use edit summaries to explain why you are removing text. Regards, |Madeline. 21:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Women in Red in September 2022
Women in Red September 2022, Vol 8, Issue 9, Nos 214, 217, 240, 241
A discussion is open to define a process by which Vector 2022 can be made the default for all users.
An RfC is open to gain consensus on whether Fox News is reliable for science and politics.
Technical news
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Arbitration
An arbitration case regarding Conduct in deletion-related editing has been closed. The Arbitration Committee passed a remedy as part of the final decision to create a request for comment (RfC) on how to handle mass nominations at Articles for Deletion (AfD).
The arbitration case request Jonathunder has been automatically closed after a 6 month suspension of the case.
Miscellaneous
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AFD closures
Hello, Maddy from Celeste,
I don't believe you have enough editing experience and experience working in the AFD area to be closing deletion discussion, especially on sensitive subjects. If you intend to do this again, please review Wikipedia:Non-admin closure and make sure that you understand when an RFC or AFD closure can be done by a non-admin and when it is a better idea to leave that task to an administrator or more experienced editor. Thank you. LizRead!Talk! 01:44, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
I'll keep that in mind! Madeline (part of me) 18:37, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
New message from Jo-Jo Eumerus
Hello, Maddy from Celeste. You have new messages at Talk:TV Tropes. Message added 15:33, 4 September 2022 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in gender-related disputes or controversies or in people associated with them. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
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Also please be so kind as to not alter my signature in future. Slatersteven (talk) 17:15, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
@Slatersteven wow I'm sorry I have no idea where that came from. I literally just used the undo function… Madeline (part of me) 17:19, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Something similar happened to be a few weeks ago, a random insertion of text, its like some kind of bizarre shortcut being activated with out knowledge of it. So maybe a bug of some kind. Slatersteven (talk) 17:28, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:00, 29 September 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Direct quotes
Hi - when a article contains a direct quote, please don't change the wording of it even if you think it contains a grammatical error. The only time you should change the wording of quotes is if you have checked the source, and found that someone made a mistake when transcribing it (or if it's been vandalised of course). Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 10:30, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
@Girth Summit you're right, I made a mistake. In this case, though, it seems the misquotation was nothing new. I've changed it to what I think is a faithful translation. Madeline (part of me) 10:41, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Following an RfC, consensus has been found that, in the context of politics and science, the reliability of FoxNews.com is unclear and that additional considerations apply to its use.
The Articles for creation helper script now automatically recognises administrator accounts which means your name does not need to be listed at WP:AFCP to help out. If you wish to help out at AFC, enable AFCH by navigating to Preferences → Gadgets and checking the "Yet Another AfC Helper Script" box.
Arbitration
Remedy 8.1 of the Muhammad images case will be rescinded 1 November following a motion.
Hello, can you help me, you are experienced, what should I do to get my draft approved Shirin1988 (talk) 22:03, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
@Shirin1988: to be honest I'm not that well-versed in the articles for creation process, but here you need to show that the subject of your draft is notable in the Wikipedia sense of the term. That means you need to find sources that are independent of Taha that have written something significant about him. Madeline (part of me) 22:11, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi, a while back you edited the CIB article removing promotional language. I wanted to let you know that I've nominated it for deletion here after looking for sources to justify its continued existence and not finding much. Jtrrs0 (talk) 19:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, it seems pretty obvious now. I might participate in the AFD once I have time. Madeline (part of me) 19:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
You've got mail
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Cisnormativity
Nice job on this, thanks for your work. Normally, Normally I'd have a look and make some tweaks or additions, but I'm snowed under, so no time just now. Here's one tip you may (or may not) find interesting: look up markedness. I think you'll see the applicability right away, although there may not be anything out there yet linking the concept to cisnormativity, but there will, in time. It's the reason that the statistically variant/minority term gets named first, and happens in all areas; some unmarked terms include landline, surface street, cisgender, and endosex. Anyway, just keep this on deep background for now, until there's a source about it. Good luck! Mathglot (talk) 03:55, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
After looking around a bit, the closest I found was a reference to markedness (in its more usual inflection, marked or unmarked) near a reference to cisgender, and I wasn't surprised that it popped up on Serano's blog, here. Our article Cisgender credits someone else with making that connection, which is fine, but at least it mentions it. Mathglot (talk) 03:59, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for that! I just did some cursory looking, and also couldn't really find any sources that directly connect cisnormativity and markedness. Bauer et al. (2009) credits Whipping Girl for pretty much the same idea, which I'll try to work into the article once I take time to actually read through the book and locate where it's presented, but ctrl-f suggests that Serano didn't directly employ the language of markedness there. Madeline (part of me) 12:29, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
My edit was not wrong
Deep frying is actually unhealthy and should only be enjoyed in moderation. Not sure how this is disruptive. You don't own Wikipedia, remember that. Taco Supreme Fries (talk) 19:22, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
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DAB pages
I might be wrong, but I think the general rule in disambiguatory pages is that there should be one link per line, so I edited Saturday's Children as such. Thanks! —VersaceSpace🌃 21:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Yup, just checked. Thank you! ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 21:31, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
An RfC is open to discuss having open requests for adminship automatically placed on hold after the seven-day period has elapsed, pending closure or other action by a bureaucrat.
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 Thanks I started to panic! I realized midstream that I was way over my head; so I fessed up to it; and asked for help; and there you were! Thanks again! Flibbertigibbets (talk) 23:29, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Re: There is no such thing as an unpolitical question.
It's always struck me as quite odd how any discussion about pineapple on pizza can set some people off. I've never understood it. Viriditas (talk) 22:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah it's silly. On the other hand, fighting over silly things might be human nature at this point… ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 14:21, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Women in Red in December 2022
WiR Women who died in 2022Women in Red December 2022, Vol 8, Issue 12, Nos 214, 217, 248, 249, 250
Remember to search slight spelling variations of your subject's name, like Katherine/Katharine or Elizabeth/Elisabeth, especially for historical subjects.
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Wikipedia edits
Hi there,
I am increasingly distressed by some edits to the Wikipedia page about my work. I raised this earlier today and the issue was resolved. The material has now been added again. This material offers an unbalanced and negative view of my work -particularly as it is featured at the top of the article. The material is clearly added by a soap fan who wants to tarnish my reputation. Can you please advise how this can be rectified as this feels like being remotely bullied. Robhaywood10 (talk) 22:49, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
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The arbitration case Stephen has been opened and the proposed decision is expected 1 December 2022.
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Miscellaneous
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On 26 December 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Lucile Abreu, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that after winning a discrimination lawsuit against the Honolulu Police Department, Lucile Abreu became its first female detective? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lucile Abreu. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Lucile Abreu), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
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--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Timestamps and sig
Thanks for adding those, I'm not sure why I didn't notice I hadn't type out the extra tilde in those two responses. Heiro 10:23, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Actually, I think you added a tilde too much ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 10:25, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Ahhhhhh, right on. Still, oops, lol. Mybe it's time to log off and get some sleep. Thanks again Heiro 10:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Maddy from Celeste, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
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Hello, Maddy! You might be interested in endorsing an essay in which creation I participated – WP:NOCONFED. Of course, this is just a suggestion, nothing more. Cheers! — Sundostundmppria(talk / contribs) 22:59, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
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On the page of Quentin Van Meter,
you reverted an update of the page made by NoHateInGA. I reviewed the content posted by NoHateInGA and found it to be factually true and in agreement with the cited source. This was a big deal in the Georgia legislature this week. What gives with taking this content down?! Based on your page and background this is even more surprising. CogentCrusader (talk) 03:01, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
Based on your page and background this is even more surprising.
Are you insinuating that because I am queer, I should not care about Wikipedia policy? If this is the attitude you're bringing here, I strongly suggest you don't. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 06:57, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
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Can I add you on discord?
You seem cool, can I add you on discord? I’m @Kamidere#3525 Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 20:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: I don't really use Discord, sorry. You can hit me up on IRC (see user page), or send me an email if you want my Matrix or Fediverse handles. :3 ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 20:28, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red April 2023
Women in Red Apr 2023, Vol 9, Iss 4, Nos 251, 252, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266
Hello, Maddy from Celeste. Your account has been granted the "extendedmover" user right, either following a request for it or demonstrating familiarity with working with article names and moving pages. You are now able to rename pages without leaving behind a redirect, move subpages when moving the parent page(s), and move category pages.
Please take a moment to review Wikipedia:Page mover for more information on this user right, especially the criteria for moving pages without leaving a redirect. Please remember to follow post-move cleanup procedures and make link corrections where necessary, including broken double-redirects when suppressredirect is used. This can be done using Special:WhatLinksHere. It is also very important that no one else be allowed to access your account, so you should consider taking a few moments to secure your password. As with all user rights, be aware that if abused, or used in controversial ways without consensus, your page mover status can be revoked.
If you do not want the page mover right anymore, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Thank you, and happy editing! Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:43, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Mail
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Love that "Live footage of me reading the latest ANI hellthread" picture on your user page, by the way. Have you paid a visit to EEng and the museums recently? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 20:03, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Totally going to steal that one. EEng 20:47, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
A bit hasty closing this discussion three minutes after a relist, no? 162 etc. (talk) 20:31, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Whoops, looks like they got their relist in between me opening the link and closing it. Reverted. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:36, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for quality articles such as Cisnormativity, Lucile Abreu and Transgender history in Finland, for welcoming new users and dealing with move requests, for not only bravely closing the umptieth Mozart RfC but even following through afterwards, for a clever April Fool and a section "Things to do when demotivated" - Madeline, you are an awesome Wikipedian!
You are recipient no. 2839 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
o: I'm floored. aaa thank you!! ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 05:15, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
great to meet you! - in response to the "invitation" to the Mozart RfC on Classical music, I wrote a little timeline of what has been styled as a war (in 2005) (and I thought it was over at least by 2018) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
I find it absurd how heated people get over little rectangles with some words and numbers in them. Honestly, I didn't quite understand your ACE2022 questions either at the time; "infobox wars" seemed like a thing that would've happened way in the past; but the senseless hostility during and after what I thought to be a relatively straightforward RfC over an aesthetic choice showed me wrong. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 09:30, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
check out Robert le diable, perhaps? - A user puts a "retired" tag on his user pages, and I am blamed and requested to change my actions that he called disgraceful: Where are we in 2023? When another of these users who are somewhat more superior left, a great arbitrator said that he is a big boy and his decision is his decision. - I see infoboxes with rounded corners, btw, thanks to Br'er Rabbit --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:46, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
People are strange. That actually prompted me to make a userscript that removes infoboxes while preserving the images. These infobox disputes seem to mostly be about the readers (most of whom don't install userscripts), though. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 12:56, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
I haven't seen a reader complain about the presence of an infobox yet. I added one to Robert le diable because it was on the Main page that day, and more readers than the selected few of normal days would see it. L'Africaine by the same composer has one, but we should serve the personal interests of a specific writer who likes it differently? I think the disputes are mostly about the writers, and that's what's wrong with them. I believe that we might begin to treat infoboxes like other content, and I'm not the first to think so. - You could offer your script to Smerus. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:49, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
I haven't seen a reader complain about the presence of an infobox yet. – I meant that the people opposing infoboxes likely do so because they think they're detrimental to readers' experiences at large, not just their own. Treating infoboxes "like other content" I definitely agree with. I've linked the script in the discussion above, where someone wondered if such existed. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 13:54, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
seen, thank you, but only after this - I run my watchlist backwards ;) - the editors who find infoboxes detrimental to readers' experience possibly don't know what a script is, nor what tada means ;) - The best description of their attitude was quoted in Jenny Lind: an "eyesore in our beautifully crafted article", - I'm not making that up. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:01, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939 on the Main page yesterday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:22, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
You made me go back to the archive to look. Anderson is a legend. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 19:02, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Today, Johanna Geisler. - I just looked up - for the first time ever - contentious topic infoboxes. In a nutshell: I don't believe they are still contentious. Not the boxes, - the 2016 arbcase on which the CT designation was based was not about yes or no, but only civility. But not even civility: it has improved greatly. Could you tell the arbs, perhaps? Even I could, not having been a party in 2016. We should really get to normal editing in the field. Geisler sang a premiere by Korngold. The composer has an infobox since 2014, and nobody complained. Mozart: I think that not only were there many more voices supporting, - there was especially the voice of reason, Voceditenore, refuting all arguments on the table. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
ps: I'm concluding that CT information should not be given to users simply discussing infoboxes, only to users who seems in danger of not doing it in civility. What really made me smile is that the user who saddened me by the "Wehrmacht" edit - one of the authors of Messiah, to make it worse - gave a nice infobox to Geisler's husband. I keep hoping ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:46, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
In my opinion any topic area where a seasoned editor will unabashedly invoke the Third Reich in reference to people who disagree with them ought to be a CT. With regards to alerts, it's a fine line between handing out too many and handing out too few. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me; 11:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
I'll keep hoping then that it was the last time, - supported by your close ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
yesterday's story was around Messiaen, and I got no protest, - perhaps the ice age is going to end? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:43, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Transgender history in Finland you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 13:03, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
A request for comment about removing administrative privileges in specified situations is open for feedback.
Technical news
Progress has started on the Page Triage improvement project. This is to address the concerns raised by the community in their 2022 WMF letter that requested improvements be made to the tool.
The Wikipedia Library: #1Lib1Ref - May 15th to June 5th
Tip of the month:
Looking for new red links? Keep an eye out for interesting and notable friends, family, or associates of your last article subject, and re-examine group photos for other women who may still need an article.
The article Transgender history in Finland you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Transgender history in Finland for comments about the article, and Talk:Transgender history in Finland/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 22:03, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Thank you! - I heard pleasant music today - did you know a string quartet with two cellos (and no article yet in English? - I nominated Soňa Červená for GA just to give her a bit more exposure. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:51, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
My story today is that 300 years ago today, Bach became Thomaskantor, with BWV 75, writing music history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:10, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
Following an RfC, editors indefinitely site-banned by community consensus will now have all rights, including sysop, removed.
As a part of the Wikimedia Foundation's IP Masking project, a new policy has been created that governs the access to temporary account IP addresses. An associated FAQ has been created and individual communities can increase the requirements to view temporary account IP addresses.
Technical news
Bot operators and tool maintainers should schedule time in the coming months to test and update their tools for the effects of IP masking. IP masking will not be deployed to any content wiki until at least October 2023 and is unlikely to be deployed to the English Wikipedia until some time in 2024.
Arbitration
The arbitration case World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.
Thanks, I did indeed miss that among some other notifications. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 16:39, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm disappointed
not by the fact that there are transphobes on Wikipedia. But by how many are willing to at least partially excuse transphobia because they self-admittedly have a good relationship with the person in question, or because the editor has been around (being transphobic) for a long time. I also disappointed by how many people see trans people as a topic area, that think it is okay to be transphobic as long as you do it under a topic which is not about trans people. I am equally disappointed that there are respected editors here who believe that being transphobic and being against transphobia are equivalent.
I placed a wikibreak template on my user page hoping to take a step away and let things fold out and hopefully let myself heal. Then I cleaned up some promotion from an article. Just now I reverted someone for using unreliable sources. I am not taking a wikibreak, but I continue to claim so. The things I mentioned feel like a duty to me, and like second nature. But those are not why I edit, not anymore. I edit to work together with other, reasonable, experienced editors to make and keep articles that are accurate, balanced, and beautiful. But it is exactly this I am taking a wikibreak from. My sense of purpose here has met a crisis when so many of the people who may talk perfectly reasonably, some of whom I've even looked up to, without daring or probably even knowing to say it, see me and my community as second-rate people, and our protection as contingent. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:41, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
Welcome back! Would you have time to look into Ravel? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Tim riley there seems to be mistaking his own opinion on how the article should look for a consensus, which in fact does seem to exist on the talk page. I am not convinced, however, that WP:CANVASSing would do better at convincing him. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 11:55, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Well, he would certainly not listen to me, - remember Wehrmacht? I like an independent view, that's all. - 11 June or: Music not only by Bach --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:17, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
It kind of defeats the point of getting an independent view if one of the sides chooses who provides the independent view ;-). Maybe it's starting to be WP:ANI or WP:AE time, but I don't feel like looking into that enough right now. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 09:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
I have not taken a good colleague to a noticeboard (this particular one invited me for Messiah, and we wrote Fauré's Requiem together), and don't plan to ever do it. - I still believe that you might be in an independent enough position to educate about what makes a consensus (regardless of which debate), but nevermind if you ca use your time more constructively elsewhere. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:17, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Tea and cookies from Finland for you, in solidarity, Beccaynr (talk) 22:47, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
And here is a round Tula pryanik for you, also in solidarity. Comrade a!rado🇷🇺 (C🪆T) 04:56, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Glad to see the wikibreak was so short. Your contributions to Wikipedia are widely appreciated. Keep up the good work!--Ipigott (talk) 08:29, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Routine cleanup is something that comes to me almost instinctively at this point. I still need to reflect a lot over how I feel about so many editors, some of whom I respected very much, seemingly taking transphobia to be a topic area problem rather than bigotry unacceptable everywhere. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 08:53, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
I first registered in 2013, and I've seen a lot of improvement since then. I see a lot more out Wikipedians than I did ten years ago. I watched from the sidelines during the Manning ArbCom case and saw editors get halfhearted slaps on the wrists for all sorts of transphobic nonsense, and I see editors getting immediate AE TBans for similar edits these days. Ten years ago, MOS:ID was a redlink and 100-kilobyte flame wars were fought over how to describe transgender individuals. On today's Wikipedia, edits that misgender trans people are reverted on sight, and the responsible editors given templated warnings. (Yes, I've used this one myself.) I'm hopeful that this community will continue to improve, but I understand that improvement sometimes just isn't enough. I'm a cishet dude, but I've experienced my own share of frustration with the culture here on Wikipedia, and it isn't hard for me to imagine that it'd be very difficult to find the motivation to edit here when you have to deal with the same bullshit here as you probably do IRL. I've seen the good work you do here and I'd like to see you continue doing it, but I can't fault you if you decide that it's just not worth it. Either way I hope you know that, while I'll never truly understand what you're dealing with, I'm sympathetic to your frustrations and I hope things get better. — SamX [talk·contribs] 02:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
I don't want to play this old trope, because it doesn't sound sincere, but ... some of my friends are transgender and I have seen vile and abusive crap been thrown at them in a manner that makes me throw my hands up in despair and shout "you do realise this person you're throwing this at is an actual human being too, you know?" I've also seen the good work you do around here, and the commitment you have to the project, and I think you have more allies here than you might realise. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 12:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Yep, it's definitely not all bad. And I've concluded I'm quite bad at consciously going on an editing break. >_< So here I am again I guess. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 12:11, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
happy you are with us! - Jörg Widmann is 50, and I began Stockholm pics. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
Collapse of Libreboot talk section regarding Yae4
Hi, maybe instead of collapsing it the way Yae4 did, if you want to collapse it, maybe collapse *just* the list of diffs, with a title like e.g. "List of diffs as evidence", or something like that. I could make such an edit myself, if you wish.Libreleah (talk) 17:48, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
Hey Maddy. I've got a couple of changes I'd like to suggest to your uw-gender series of warning templates.
Recently we updated the first paragraph of MOS:GENDERID to make it state that we should refer to a person by both the name and gendered words that reflect their most recent gender identity, instead of just gendered words. Could we update your templates to reflect that change?
Secondly, in uw-gender3, you've added [[:{{{1}}}]] so that Twinkle can pass in the relevant article title. Could we add that to uw-gender1, 2, and 4 as well, and then make it an optional parameter similar to how it works for the {{Uw-vandalism1}} series? If you don't know how, I'd be happy to make the change with your permission. I'd also be happy to add the polite Hello, I'm [username] to uw-gender1 at the same time, if you think it would improve the template. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:18, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Sounds good. I'm on my phone right now, so feel free to make the changes yourself. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 19:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Awesome, I'll do that later this evening and let you know when I'm done :) Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:42, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
And done! If you want to see them in action, I've just tested them on my own user talk page if you want to see what they look like. All four templates now allow Twinkle to pass through the relevant page name, as well as a optional extra message from the user issuing the warning.
Do we want to create a 4im for this series? An example would be Template:Uw-vandalism4im. It might be useful when dealing with a proxy hopping IP, or when handling an obvious sock attack. Sideswipe9th (talk) 22:21, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Cool! I made one small tweak to it, to include the {{{2|}}} for the |extra= parameter, as that's what allows Twinkle to pass through the optional message when you're issuing the warning.
If you make any more templates and want a hand, drop me a ping or message and I'll be happy to help out :) Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
disinfobox.js
Sorry, I never saw your original post back in April.[1] Only just saw it because I was reviewing my last 5000 edits looking for an article that I cannot seem to find (it will turn up eventually), when I ran across your wonderful script. I only just tested it out.[2] Works great! I'm happy to see that you added it to Help:Infobox/user style, but I really hope someone like User:Smerus takes note of what you did and uses it. It's amazing that you did this. Viriditas (talk) 06:40, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red July 2023
Women in Red June 2023, Vol 9, Iss 7, Nos 251, 252, 274, 275, 276
Hello. Is my IP address public when i edit pages? --Basilfork (talk) 13:44, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) No, when you're registered, nobody can see your IP adress. IP (and other data) of registered users can be seen only by wp:checkusers and only when doing checks. All checks are logged (without revealing data) and are done only with a valid reason. So, as registered user, you're pretty safe. a!rado🦈 (C✙T) 14:01, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red 8th Anniversary
Women in Red 8th Anniversary
In July 2015 around 15.5% of the English Wikipedia's biographies were about women. As of July 2023, 19.61% of the English Wikipedia's biographies are about women. That's a lot of biographies created in the effort to close the gender gap. Happy 8th Anniversary! Join us for some virtual cake and add comments or memories and please keep on editing to close the gap!
--Lajmmoore (talk) 11:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Today Jahrhundertring, written 10 years ago, and I just listened to Götterdämmerung from the Bayreuth Festival (pictured), - the image (of a woman who can't believe what she has to see) features also on the article talk. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello,
i just created a wikipage using WP:Article wizard. Is my work in moderation now? --Pranay030 (talk) 10:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) hi @Pranay030! I added an AfC banner to your draft. you may press the Submit button to submit your draft. happy editing! 💜 melecietalk - 11:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Melecie for the tag :) I have submitted my wiki page for the review. Pranay030 (talk) 12:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello, Maddy from Celeste. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Kristi Raik, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.
If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 14:02, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello, Maddy from Celeste. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Panda Eriksson, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.
If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 15:01, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi Madeline! I was recently in the small Alaskan fishing village of Ninilchik and took a photo on my iPhone of a welcome sign outside the entrance of said village. The sign has a short description of the history and founders of Ninilchik, and I noticed that a photo of the sign was not on the village’s Wikipedia page. If it is no bother, I would appreciate some guidance as to whether I should upload the photo, where I should do so, as well as anything else that may help. I am new to editing Wikipedia and I am not an expert on this subject. I was unsure of how to upload the photo here for reference, so I would appreciate it if you could inform me on how to do that. I thank you immensely for your time and I again heavily appreciate your help. --Slamforeman (talk) 20:57, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Hello, @Slamforeman! I apologize for the slight delay in my response; I have been busy elsewhere and didn't see this message. The place to upload an illustration for Wikipedia depends on its copyright status. In most cases, to use an image on Wikipedia, it either has to be in the public domain for one reason or another (usually because the author died a long time ago), or you have to have permission. In that case you should upload to Wikimedia Commons. The other case in which an image can be used here if it meets all of the non-free content criteria. In that case, it should be uploaded to the Engligh Wikipedia only, which you can do here.Now as for your photo of the welcome sign, you did take the photo, so you have permission and should be fine on that front. However, since you took a photo of the welcome sign, your photo is probably a derivative work thereof. This means you also have to consider the copyright status of the sign itself. This gets very messy very quickly. One simple case is that if it was put up by an agency of the US federal government, it's in the public domain. Else, most likely not. If the content of the sign is very trivial, you might be able to argue that it is too simple to attract copyright. Otherwise, you would probably need to get permission from the sign's author to upload your photo. Here is the procedure for that case. Finally, it probably wouldn't pass the non-free content criteria, as a photo of a welcome plaque is far from essential for an article about a town.If you have further copyright-related questions about a specific image, you can also ask at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Also, if you ever ask me a question here and don't get an answer after a few days, or otherwise want input from others than me, you can post at the Wikipedia:Teahouse or Wikipedia:Help desk. Happy editing! -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 12:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
Thanks again so much! Have a wonderful day. Slamforeman (talk) 12:23, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
Okay I'll ask them, thanks. Btw, what does {{talk page stalker}} stands for? Anderssøn79 🦔 (talk) 🦔 💛💙 11:47, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
It's a bit of self-deprecation. It means that I'm not Maddy, but I've shown up on her talk page to help you anyway because I watchlist it. See Wikipedia:Talk page stalker for more information casualdejekyll 15:09, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
Please take a look at Draft:2023 IFK Norrköping season, and move it if it is good enough. After moving, I hope to get help from other Swedish Football funs, as usual. Thanks! --Anderssøn79 🦔 (talk) 🦔 💛💙 13:56, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
never mind. :) Anderssøn79 🦔 (talk) 🦔 💛💙 13:59, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
September 2023 at Women in Red
Women in Red September 2023, Vol 9, Iss 9, Nos 251, 252, 281, 282, 283
I found this certain moss in the Northwoods of Wisconsin while hiking last week. The article doesn't state they would be anywhere near there. How do I edit the article to include this? --Rschubert9807 (talk) 01:22, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Following an RfC, TFAs will be automatically semi-protected the day before it is on the main page and through the day after.
A discussion at WP:VPP about revision deletion and oversight for dead names found that [s]ysops can choose to use revdel if, in their view, it's the right tool for this situation, and they need not default to oversight. But oversight could well be right where there's a particularly high risk to the person. Use your judgment.
The SmallCat dispute case has closed. As part of the final decision, editors participating in XfD have been reminded to be careful about forming local consensus which may or may not reflect the broader community consensus. Regular closers of XfD forums were also encouraged to note when broader community discussion, or changes to policies and guidelines, would be helpful.
Miscellaneous
Tech tip: The "Browse history interactively" banner shown at the top of Special:Diff can be used to easily look through a history, assemble composite diffs, or find out what archive something wound up in.
Hey again Madeline! I’d appreciate your advice on something.
I was reading the Wikipedia article about Monica Witt, an American citizen and Air Force veteran who defected to Iran and is now a fugitive from justice.
I noticed that her photo in her “quick facts” was quite poor quality, being grainy and blurry. It also undated, with the metadata for the photo saying it could have been taken at any point of when she served in the Air Force. But, regardless, there is another problem with the photo I believe to be more important.
The photo of her is from her time in the military and prior to her conversion to Islam. I am not Muslim myself, but as far as I am aware, it considered disrespectful to show a Muslim woman not wearing a burka, outside of private spaces.
My question is if the photo should replaced or moved, with this photograph from the FBI website and the poster concerning her, taking it’s place. It is much higher quality, depicts her wearing a burka, and is more recent, which I think would help if she was ever spotted. I also believe it is not copyrighted, which also helps.
Again, I would appreciate any guidance you can offer here. Although she is certainly a bad person, I believe this would help with respectability. I considered asking this question in the Teahouse, but I held off for now, for fear of provoking Islamophobia.
I thank you for help so very much and offer you my best wishes. Slamforeman (talk) 21:20, 2 September 2023 (UTC).
@Slamforeman: According to the copyright notice linked from that page, any content is in the public domain unless otherwise noted, and I don't see anything to the contrary on that photo, so I think it's PD. Given that, there's no reason not to use a better and newer photo over an older and worse one. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 22:01, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
This South China Morning Post article attributes the photo to the FBI. I think that is more than enough to consider it copyright free. Uploading the photo right now. Thank you once more! Slamforeman (talk) 23:11, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
When creating an article, check to see if there is an entry in the sister project Wikidata. If your subject is listed, the Wikidata information can be useful
An RfC is open regarding amending the paid-contribution disclosure policy to add the following text: Any administrator soliciting clients for paid Wikipedia-related consulting or advising services not covered by other paid-contribution rules must disclose all clients on their userpage.
Technical news
Administrators can now choose to add the user's user page to their watchlist when changing the usergroups for a user. This works both via Special:UserRights and via the API. (T272294)
I re-read your advice on how and whether to do so, and realized that it most likely fits the too simple for copyright criteria, as well as the other rules, and so I decided to upload it. Just thought I should say here. I thank you again for the suggestion and I hope you have been well. Slamforeman (talk) 16:01, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
I feel I should add more context. Other welcome signs like this one or this one are under own work licenses with no issue, and they are much more complex. As for if it is notable enough to go up on the page for Ninilchik, I don’t think it has too, only that it would be good for it to go up on the commons. Kind regards, Slamforeman (talk) 16:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Seeing the image now, I agree that uploading it is fine :). -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red - November 2023
Women in Red November 2023, Vol 9, Iss 11, Nos 251, 252, 287, 288, 289
Following a motion, the contentious topic designation of Prem Rawat has been struck. Actions previously taken using this contentious topic designation are still in force.
Following several motions, multiple topic areas are no longer designated as a contentious topic. These contentious topic designations were from the Editor conduct in e-cigs articles, Liancourt Rocks, Longevity, Medicine, September 11 conspiracy theories, and Shakespeare authorship question cases.
Following a motion, remedies 3.1 (All related articles under 1RR whenever the dispute over naming is concerned), 6 (Stalemate resolution) and 30 (Administrative supervision) of the Macedonia 2 case have been rescinded.
Following a motion, remedy 6 (One-revert rule) of the The Troubles case has been amended.
An arbitration case named Industrial agriculture has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case close 8 November.
Miscellaneous
The Articles for Creation backlog drive is happening in November 2023, with 700+ drafts pending reviews for in the last 4 months or so. In addition to the AfC participants, all administrators and New Page Patrollers can conduct reviews using the helper script, Yet Another AFC Helper Script, which can be enabled in the Gadgets settings. Sign up here to participate!
Hello, Maddy from Celeste. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Trans broken arm syndrome, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.
If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.
Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 16:06, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello I want to edit my music page --JOLil2 (talk) 20:20, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello, @JOLil2. Are you referring to this edit? You don't make a new article by just replacing the content in an existing one. Furthermore, it looks like you are trying to write an article about yourself. Read this for why that is a bad idea. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Okay thank you so how do I go about it JOLil2 (talk) 20:25, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello, Maddy from Celeste. Your account has been granted the "extendedmover" user right, either following a request for it or demonstrating familiarity with working with article names and moving pages. You are now able to rename pages without leaving behind a redirect, move subpages when moving the parent page(s), and move category pages.
Please take a moment to review Wikipedia:Page mover for more information on this user right, especially the criteria for moving pages without leaving a redirect. Please remember to follow post-move cleanup procedures and make link corrections where necessary, including broken double-redirects when suppressredirect is used. This can be done using Special:WhatLinksHere. It is also very important that no one else be allowed to access your account, so you should consider taking a few moments to secure your password. As with all user rights, be aware that if abused, or used in controversial ways without consensus, your page mover status can be revoked.
If you do not want the page mover right anymore, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Thank you, and happy editing! Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red December 2023
Women in Red December 2023, Vol 9, Iss 12, Nos 251, 252, 290, 291, 292
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message
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... to the cabal of the outcast - flowers and berries will be your only reqard ;) - did you see that my question to the arb cands departed from the Mozart RfC? - The November berries seem just perfect for the colours of your user name. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Oh, they're worth it. <3 I did see your question, funny to see an RfC I closed be mentioned at ACE. That infoboxes are/were such a battlefield still baffles me; us others at least fight about matters of consequence! -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 19:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
understand your cause better ;) - just for fun, you might look at the first of those and answer ;) - and when it happened it was not funny. - But making this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
My description of Special:Diff/542355419? A weird quasi-infobox that I assume nobody genuinely wanted there was turned into a normal infobox. I'm not sure what to think about your insinuation that this conflict will end with a cremation. P.S. Be it said I have just !voted for deleting an infobox. fight me about it ;3 -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:05, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
The pic that I just love is by member of the outcast #2, banned. I was named an infobox warrior when I restored the preferred version weeks after an edit war, for a mass ;) - the lovely discussion is still on the talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
I am incredibly glad to be editing in 2023 and not 2013… -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:53, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
My start was in 2009, and I soon met great people such as Michael Bednarek and Jerome Kohl, and DYK that I didn't know about infobox conflicts until Samuel Barber, in 2012? I opposed for redundancy, and that discussion was more enjoyable, - I was immediately won for intended redundancy for readers with different needs by a remark that Barber is also a person, - it was worded more wittily, worth finding out ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
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Hi Maddy from Celeste. :) I'm looking for people to interview here. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. Clovermoss🍀(talk) 12:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi Maddy, hope you're doing well. I saw that you closed the Sommer Ray discussion for exclusion on both fronts, but would you be able to provide me with an explanation on why you closed both as consensus against? Most editors expressed trimmed down inclusion of Set B. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi @InvadingInvader! I count one (you) in favour of including both, two in favour of excluding both, one for conditionally including B, and one for either conditionally including B or excluding both. I read this as consensus for excluding both. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Understood, and thanks for your rationale, but wouldn't that be WP:No consensus instead of consensus against? With all due respect to it as well, I'm pretty sure consensus is not a vote and more so relies on the strength of arguments per WP:Consensus (and further explained in Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion). Would you be able to provide a little bit more detail to that end? InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
The !votes for excluding B both cite the reliability of the sources as a reason, while the one for conditional inclusion does not address the reliability issue, instead going for a WP:OSE-kind of argument. I think this moves it out of no consensus. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. To what extent did you take into account the additional publication from Glossy magazine provided in the discussion section? InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
I registered it, but did not consider it to have swayed the debate much given that neither of the editors who acknowledged it did not amend their !votes in response. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 18:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
OK. Thank you! InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:08, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Closure on Israel RFC
As the proposer of the RFC on Israel article, I would like to begin by genuinely thanking you for the effort you put in the closing. You clearly took your time to read all the arguments and decide accordingly, which unfortunately is a rarity these days.
I saw in the closing message the words that there is "no consensus either for or against inclusion". I feel this has been considered as voting, which doesn't follow the consensus guideline: "Consensus on Wikipedia does not require unanimity (which is ideal but rarely achievable), nor is it the result of a vote. Decision making and reaching consensus involve an effort to incorporate all editors' legitimate concerns, while respecting Wikipedia's policies and guidelines."
As you can see apart from the fact that users of a particular viewpoint have been canvassed, they did not base their arguments on Wikipedia policy, as you well-articulated in your closing.
Determining consensus: "Consensus is ascertained by the quality of the arguments given on the various sides of an issue, as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy."
I feel there has been no good counterarguments given to the main argument that the lede summarizes the body per MOS guideline; since we do have a section on apartheid in the article.
Looking forward to reading your response. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi, Makeandtoss. Thank you for your message. Closing this rfc, I considered these points quite thoroughly, in my mind. Had I treated the rfc as a vote, I would have closed it as a clear consensus against inclusion, but that is not what happened. I took the concerns about canvassing seriously, and asked at WP:DFD for advice on how to take that into account. While reading the discussion, I paid particular attention to the policy basis of the comments, and discounted many opposes on that basis – seven, if I remember correctly. I further checked for WP:SPAs and such, but the extended-confirmed restriction proved good at weeding those out beforehand.At this point, I did actually initially lean towards closing with consensus for inclusion, because I did feel that the support arguments were still stronger than the remaining opposes. However, since that would have been a close very strongly against the numbers, I reread WP:NHC to ascertain myself, wherein is contained an instruction to not let one's own ideas of which policies are relevant determine the outcome. I pondered over this for a while, and concluded that while I disagreed with the oppose arguments, they were not in plain contradiction with policy or otherwise irrelevant. As a closer, I ought not to rule on which of several interpretations on how policy should be applied in any given case is the most correct. I allude to this in my closing statement: All considered, after discounting clearly irrelevant comments, there was a rather even split of voices for and against inclusion, and on the policy-merits, neither can be said to have been so unambiguously right or wrong to declare a consensus here.TL;DR: I agree that in my view the support side had better arguments, but it would have been a supervote to close that way. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
The numbers wouldn’t have been a problem considering canvassing that took place. Also even without canvassing, the NHC policy you cited gives you the mandate to decide based on the result of the debate: “The closer is not expected to decide the issue, just to judge the result of the debate, and is expected to know policy sufficiently to know what arguments are to be excluded as irrelevant”. Also considering that super vote is an essay not a policy. In short, deciding for inclusion would have been considered as you having been convinced by the pro-addition arguments, rather than having a pro-addition stance yourself. I’m hoping for your kind reconsideration, as it would not only give back the lede its proper role that of body summary (since they clearly objected to any mention of apartheid and not its phrasing; which is against manual of style), but also dissuade online groups from making these counterconstructive canvassing disruptive behaviors. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Regarding canvassing, I made sure to close very carefully due to that, but as a closer, there's not a magic tool against canvassing; I can't just subtract, say, 5 votes from one side because I suspect canvassing. I remain convinced that closing as no consensus was the right choice: I used my knowledge of policy to exclude irrelevant arguments, and after doing that, there was no consensus either way. You are welcome to post to WP:AN to challenge this closure, in which case uninvolved editors will judge whether I closed correctly. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 16:11, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Requesting clarification
I have noticed that you have reverted a query by a IP user (18:11, 3 December 2023), Can you give me a reason for this? Thanks Leoneix(talk) 18:24, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, I was unaware Leoneix(talk) 18:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
No problem. I should've added an edit summary, but I was on my phone and in a hurry. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 18:32, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Origins of rock and roll
Please reverse this edit, for further consideration. OK, as a major contributor to the article I should have been aware of the move request - but, I wasn't, I've been busy, and as a general point it has been moved on the basis of a very small number of !votes (2 to 1) after a short (one week) opportunity for discussion. The article does not, never has, and never should, cover the "History of rock and roll". That raises all sorts of issues about the term itself, and the period to be covered - it could extend until the present day, and into the future. No, the article is very specifically about the Origins of the genre as it emerged in the 1950s, and the previous decades. The article is most definitely not about its later history, since the 1950s. The title "History of rock and roll" is quite simply wrong or at best highly misleading, and I would like that opinion to be expressed on the article talk page before any final decision is taken. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Following a talk page discussion, the Administrators' accountability policy has been updated to note that while it is considered best practice for administrators to have notifications (pings) enabled, this is not mandatory. Administrators who do not use notifications are now strongly encouraged to indicate this on their user page.
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Hey, I see you closed the move discussion at Talk:Greatest Hits... So Far!!! (Pink album) as no consensus; does that mean I'm good to take one or both of the redirects to RFD? I don't want to forumshop here, so just checking since there was no comment on the status of the redirects. Skarmory(talk •contribs) 03:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
@Skarmory: yes, given that RfD concerns other issues than RM, I don't see a problem with listing those. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 07:42, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cisgenderism until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
Just a side comment, I will do discussion on her Article rather than here.
Sophie did superb work. I want her achievements to be genuinely recognized. Doing WP:OR will make her actual work suspect. That can be counter-productive. BlueWren0123 (talk) 17:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't understand the purpose of this message. Obviously I know why OR is bad. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
Discussion closure on Matt Walsh talk page
Hello. I noticed your closure of a discussion I participated in. I'm not personally big on the idea of closing discussions, but WP guidance and policy obviously matters more than my preference! I looked up what I could (I've never been a highly active editor, so I don't know all the nooks and crannies of this place).
Anyway I didn't find anything about closing a discussion because of the topic. You cited WP:FRINGE but I suspect that applies more to articles.
In WP:CLOSE there is the guidance that "most conversations do not need to be closed."
Reasons for closure include when the discussion is stable, with the caution: "The more contentious the subject, the longer this may take." The discussion you closed is certainly a contentious subject, and of course stability was not the reason you cited.
The essay WP:ACD advises making this decision only on matters on which one can truly be impartial. Your own user page shows a high level of advocacy on topics related to the closure.
Your perspective is valuable here, and you appear to be an accomplished contributor. You must know very well what makes Wikipedia great and what threatens this greatness, so I respectfully request that you consider taking a more cautious approach to discussion closure.
Hi. My closing there was based on WP:TALKOFFTOPIC, which advises to collapse nonpertinent sections. Speaking from experience, these kinds of posts tend to attract irrelevant WP:SOAPBOXing about personal opinions. Obviously I have nothing against you starting a new section to propose concrete, reasoned changes to the article. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:14, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Cisnormativity you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of FenrisAureus -- FenrisAureus (talk) 11:20, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
The article Cisnormativity you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Cisnormativity for comments about the article, and Talk:Cisnormativity/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of FenrisAureus -- FenrisAureus (talk) 08:02, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for what you do and stand for! I wish you a good festive season and a peaceful New Year! --
Today's story is about Maria Callas, on her centenary. - Aaron Copland died OTD, and Jerome Kohl (mentioned in November) said something wise on Copland's talk, - yes, regarding a soft(er) stance towards infoboxes. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:02, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
Pics up to 3 December (with my shadow in one of them), and a story about Beethoven in memory of his birth. When the arb who wrote the infoboxes case installed the community consensus - in 2015! - I hoped these infobox wars were over, really. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:01, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Congratulations to your latest GA! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
I try to finish uploading images of 2023 before it ends, and reached 17 December. Happy to see Rebekka Habermas on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:01, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi Maddy! Nice to meet you, I am Nat. Is there a limit to editing Wikipedia articles?
Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you. --Nat Mayne-Howard (talk) 19:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi @Nat! Some pages may be protected, which may prevent you from editing them directly, but otherwise I'm not aware of any "limits" to editing articles. Is there some specific kind of limit you're thinking of? -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
I appreciate your response. I've often wondered why some pages on Wikipedia are protected. Could you help me understand the specific restrictions or constraints that lead to the protection of certain pages? I'm curious to learn more about the reasons behind this practice. Thanks again! Best, Natalie (talk) 21:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
@Nat Mayne-Howard: Articles may be protected to prevent disruption that is persistent and comes from several users; for the full details see Wikipedia:Protection policy. If you are wondering why a specific article was protected, you can go to Special:Log/protect and search for that article to see the reason. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 18:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
DYK for Transition (film)
On 20 December 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Transition (film), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in the documentary Transition, Jordan Bryon says he finds Taliban fighters "lovely"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Transition (film). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Transition (film)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Hi Maddy
I was an Ear, Nose and Throat physician until the age of 70 when I explored entering the movie production industry and now have been the executive producer of three films. One is now streaming on Showtime, The Movie Channel and Paramount Plus.
I am proud to state that my advanced age was not a deterrent to my successful new career. I even had a speaking role opposite Brandon Routh (Superman) in our last film; The Redeemer.
I think this might give hope and motivation to other retired follks.
However, I am not certain how to put this together.
May I draft a document and email it to for friendly advice?
Thanks so much.
Steve Schrager, MD --Executive Producer Steve (talk) 19:52, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Following a motion, the Arbitration Committee rescinded the restrictions on the page name move discussions for the two Ireland pages that were enacted in June 2009.
How do I easily add a sentence or two to a page, plus several reference articles and studies. --Nmirshah (talk) 13:42, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) hi @Nmirshah and welcome to Wikipedia! please check out Reliable sources to see whether the sources you have on hand can be used on Wikipedia. to cite your sources, you may use the <ref> tag and templates such as {{cite journal}} or {{cite web}}, see these templates' pages and Referencing for beginners for more on this. happy editing! 💜 melecietalk - 09:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Hello Maddy, How do I create a page for myself on Wikipedia? I will be 80 this year and I am about to publish my first book this coming summer. I have lots of others previously written that will be published as quickly as possible and I hope to leave a detailed account of my works after I am gone. --Robert Anthony Carswell (talk) 09:10, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
An RfC about increasing the inactivity requirement for Interface administrators is open for feedback.
Technical news
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I want to edit a page for a game which I have, however, the sites where I can find citations are restricted for me. Is it possible to expand the article, and then have it missing citations, where someone else can cite it? --Fixthatonething (talk) 23:37, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
As the original registry for the Nigerian Dwarf and San Clemente Island Goat in USA and Canada, I would like to add some history. How do I do this and also list my registry as a source?
A wikipedia page on the person of interest and honor that I want to write about is already in German. Do I add to that page or create my own. This artist deserves a page in English as the artist created and lived in the United States, although traveled with a jazz musical group. --JDShutman (talk) 21:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Hi, @JDShutman. You can do either, or both, as you please. Do note that the requirements for a subject to qualify for an article, known amongst wikipedians as notability, is different between the English and German Wikipedias. I would recommend you to read the page Help:Your first article, if you wish to create an article about this person in the English Wikipedia. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 22:57, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
I've been copyediting a few articles, and am trying to work on removing promotional content. Is there any way to find articles marked as biased, so they can be objectivized?
(I'm new to Wikipedia, if that incorporates) --Fixthatonething (talk) 03:55, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed that you may have recently made edits to Aravalli Range while logged out. Wikipedia's policy on multiple accounts usually does not allow the use of both an account and an IP address by the same person in the same setting and doing so may result in your account being blocked from editing. Additionally, making edits while logged out reveals your IP address, which may allow others to determine your location and identity. If this was not your intention, please remember to log in when editing. Thank you. Sajaypal007 (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
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This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 13:03, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Challenge to non-admin closure of RfC at BLP article Victor Salva. Thank you. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 01:23, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
; see Talk:Transgender history in Finland for comments about the article, and Talk:Transgender history in Finland/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 22:03, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography § Complementary preferences. I pinged you for feedback on the proposed guideline update re. complementary preferences; I suppose it slipped through the cracks during this extensive discussion. Actualcpscm (talk) 16:20, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
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Bureaucrat changes
Done -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
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