Talk:Sam Smith/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Homosexuality

In 2013, Smith came out as openly gay and stated that his album 'In The Lonely Hour' is in fact about a male he fell in love with who didn't love him back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lukedebloom|Lukedebloom Smith. He has two youngers sisters and one brother He lived in the the village of Great Chishill, near Cambridge. 65.205.13.26 (talk) 22:53, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit request: fact in error

Te name "Samuel Fredrick Smith" appears not to be Smith's legal name, his works appear to be copyright under the name "Samuel Joseph Smith" using IPI number 00454554838. This has been verified at http://iswcnet.cisac.org/ and http://www.ascap.com/Home/ace-title-search/index.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by PolychromePlatypus (talk • contribs) 02:24, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2014

Frevel8093 (talk) 15:36, 28 October 2014 (UTC) Please can I edit this page

Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Please submit your request in the form of "change X to Y", providing any necessary sources. Thanks, NiciVampireHeart 15:45, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2014

Frevel8093 (talk) 15:33, 1 November 2014 (UTC) Can I edit this page ?

 Not done This is not the right page to request additional user rights.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request. - Arjayay (talk) 15:45, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Personal Life

Currently married his beloved lovely wife of five years name Tina Nguyen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.83.148.67 (talk) 04:02, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Associated act Taylor Swift?

In the associated act section, it names Taylor Swift, yet there is nothing in the article which indicates any association between the two artists. Is there an association there, or is this a mistake? If anyone knows why Swift is listed there, please add it to the article. Thanks! --pluma♫ ♯ 05:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 9 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Materialscientist (talk) 23:28, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

---

• Sam Smith (singer) → Sam Smith
• Sam Smith → Sam Smith (disambiguation)

– I can't see Sam Smith just being a flash in the pan - he won four Grammys in one night and has sold a good few million records already, so I'm pretty sure he's going to be the most notable person of this name for years to come, and therefore the primary topic here. Unreal7 (talk) 12:01, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

• Comment. There are a lot of people on the dab page. I'd like to see some evidence that this one passes WP:PRIMARYTOPIC - is this article viewed much more than any other on the dab page, and more than the others combined? (For "Sam Smith" at least, or possibly "Samuel Smith" as well.) Dohn joe (talk) 14:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. Look at all those Sam Smiths on that disambiguation page - over 40 by my count. I could go into more detail on why very common first name + incredibly common surname is almost never results in anyone being a primary topic, but Talk:Matt Smith (actor)#Requested move already provides a good overview of that. Egsan Bacon (talk) 15:45, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose, yes he has an exquisite voice and exceptional tallent but Sam Smith does not have the monopoly on the names sam and smith. There are 51 with both names in the disambiguation. He should blame his parents for not providing him with a more unusual name with which he would undoubtedly be primary topic. GregKaye 17:49, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Damn you, Frederick Smith and Kate Cassidy!!! - eo (talk) 19:54, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose for reasons stated above. - eo (talk) 19:54, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. IMO, the OP's rationale that the singer won four Grammys at the 57th Annual Grammy Awards just over 24 hours ago is basically WP:RECENTISM. The statement "I'm pretty sure he's going to be the most notable person of this name for years to come" is basically WP:CRYSTAL. And although the singer sold a good few million records, that does not really establish that he has significantly way more long-term significance relative to the other 40-50 Sam Smiths. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:42, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. The nomination basically amounts to WP:CRYSTAL, and doesn't show any evidence that this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. kennethaw88 • talk 00:16, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
• Weak support - Hardly anyone listed on the dab page really goes by "Sam Smith" Red Slash 02:43, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose Sam is a common male/female first name. Smith is a very common last name. The current situation is fine as it is. Canuck^{89 (chat with me)} 08:55, February 11, 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. Pure recentism. Far too common a name for a young musician to be primary, however big he is at the moment. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:38, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

artistry?

Not sure why there is an "Artistry" section which is nothing more than a short list of people who have inspired him. That hardly qualifies as artistry, and his "likes" hardly warrant their own section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.179.22.245 (talk) 09:18, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Photo

Sam Smith (Oct. 23, 2014) 02.jpg, I uploaded two photos of Smith, please add it to the article.--C.Jonel (talk) 00:32, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 February 2015

Please change "Smith subsequently awarded 12.5% of the royalties from his hit "Stay with Me" to Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne, co-writers of Petty's 1989 hit "I Won't Back Down," upon being confronted with the similarities between the two songs. Petty and Lynne are now listed as co-writers on the track.[33]" to "Smith subsequently awarded 12.5% of the royalties from his hit "Stay with Me" to Tom Petty and Jeff Lynne, co-writers of Petty's 1989 hit "I Won't Back Down," upon being confronted with the similarities in the melodies of the choruses between the two songs. Petty and Lynne are now listed as co-writers on the track.[33]"

Please also add "Smith and Petty settled the copyright dispute through an amicable agreement which prevented the situation from becoming litigated."

Please also add "Smith admits to have never heard this song from 1989 as he is only 22 years of age and was shocked by the coincidence in song similarities."

Please also add "Petty was the one to initiate the copyright dispute but never intended to sue Smith. He admits, “The word lawsuit was never even said and was never my intention […] I wish Sam all the best for his ongoing career.”

Zepcar2BB3 (talk) 00:12, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

References

Not done for now: Closing this request due to lack of communication in responding to a question asked over a week ago. Apparently there is no consensus to make the change as it stands or the request wasn't clear enough either in what needed to be replaced, what the replacement text should be, or why it is beneficial to the encyclopedia to make the change as requested. Feel free to reopen this request when all of the criteria have been met. Thank you, — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 21:20, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2015

Yeah. 2601:43:1:9A18:D106:C56F:E82F:DF23 (talk) 18:17, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. NiciVampireHeart 18:21, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2015

| nationality = British 121.54.54.239 (talk) 05:32, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change.
Please note that "nationality" is not a supported parameter in the "musical artist" infobox and we do not use flags as MOS:ICON#Avoid_flag_icons_in_infoboxes
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2015

Moveonupleah (talk) 21:25, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Page should be moved to Sam Smith

Surely it's time to move this page to Sam Smith, with a disambiguation page where the other, far lesser-known Sam Smiths can be found? The vast majority of Wikipedia users searching 'Sam Smith' will be trying to find this man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.77.197.57 (talk) 05:47, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Edit request/fact check

I would fact check Smith's status as the first openly gay male to win an Oscar. Sir Elton John won one for the Lion King. Sondheim won one for Dick Tracy. Grendel son (talk) 04:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Homosexuality and Oscar

He dedicated his Oscar to the gay community, since homosexuals are oppressed in the music and film industry.

--Momo Monitor (talk) 05:33, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

References

Musical Generes

Not really sure why Wikipedia will have 'blue-eyed soul' on any singer of nowadays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omysfysfybmm (talk • contribs) 00:11, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2018

Sam Smith is now dating Brandon Flynn, the 13 reasons why star. I request this change as soon as possible. EmilyGarib (talk) 22:39, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:35, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2017

Change he/him to they/them, due to his new announcements as coming out as non-binary. Spacegal1984 (talk) 09:58, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

See above. We don't need to handle the same request three times. Largoplazo (talk) 11:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Sam hasn't come out as either nonbinary or genderqueer. The statement "I feel as much like a woman as I do a man" doesn't mean anything other than what it says. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 13:05, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah can we switch it back to he/him until he says otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.87.140.149 (talk) 20:17, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2018

add his partner to it Jonathan Zeizel TaylorSwift013REP (talk) 16:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 16:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2018

HI THIS IS MY REQUEST. SAM SMITH USES NON-BINARY PRONOUNS (THEY/THEM), SO TO RESPECT HIS REQUEST PLEASE CHANGE THE HE/HIMS TO THEY/THEMS. THANK YOU! Ervanscoy (talk) 21:44, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — IVORK _Discuss 23:19, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Sam Smith error

He's English , born and raised yet the main page clearly states he's an American singer -songwriter Zincubus (talk) 21:05, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 16 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the pages to the proposed titles at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 06:27, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

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• Sam Smith (singer) → Sam Smith
• Sam Smith → Sam Smith (disambiguation)

– Since first WP:RM was rejected close to 4 years ago, I clearly see that Sam Smith was enough notablity due to his second album reached number one on the Billboard Album charts in October 2017, and I do not know how Grammy nominations he has earned, since I know his first album has 4 Grammy nominations. Sheldybett (talk) 05:38, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose way too many Sam Smiths to benefit anyone; (singer) helps readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:46, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose - no clear indication of primary topic. Seems to be a clear case of WP:RECENTISM.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
• Page view info - When you look at all the people listed at Sam Smith (disambiguation), Samuel Smith (disambiguation) and Samantha Smith (disambiguation), Sam Smith (singer) has 52% of all the page views in the last 90 days. If you exclude the #2 page, Samuel Timothy Smith better known as Tim McGraw, his page views are 74% of all the page views in the last 90 days. There are 54 people listed on the 3 DAB pages. I didn't count the page views to the blue links that are included with the 2 red linked Samuel Smiths. When one person out of 53 gets 74% of the page views, they are what people are looking for when they are looking for Sam Smith. Only 4 of the other 53 people had more pages views total in 90 days than Sam Smith (singer) has on average per day. They are three of the four entries on Samantha Smith (disambiguation) and Tim McGraw. ~ GB fan 12:06, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose, way too common of a name to make one a primary topic over another. WikiRedactor (talk) 15:51, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. 52% is not "much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined" per WP:TOPIC. A move would annoy or puzzle 48% of readers.

On a point of information, Samuel Smith Old Brewery is commonly known in England as Sam Smith's, and I'd wager that a proportion of readers are looking for that. Narky Blert (talk) 16:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose, far too many other articles of people named Sam Smith, would lead to confusion. The "(singer)" in the title is more specific and more helpful to our readership as a whole. Gemsweater1 (talk) 19:59, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Shall we change pronouns?

As Smith identifies as nonbinary, should we change the pronouns? 2605:6001:E7C4:1E00:85F8:F9:1E32:A680 (talk) 06:18, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

No. Hogiesossies (talk) 14:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

DIVA is FAKE!!!

REMOVE IT NOW!! HengeBoy (talk) 00:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Sam Smith Non-binary

Remove all references as "he" and turn them into gender neutral pronouns "they/them" Sophiepangal997 (talk) 18:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

• Please see the discussion on the exact same issue right above you. Sam himself said he wants masculine pronouns still. ModerateMikayla555 (talk) 18:56, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Is smith is gay? this is a question that needs to be answered.

Yes, Sam still refers to himself as gay. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 01:49, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2017

Change pronouns he/him/his to they/them/theirs. Drumminor83 (talk) 04:41, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Just because he's gay doesn't mean he identifies as agender. SparklingPessimist ^{Scream at me!} 06:26, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Exactly LincMarx (talk) 17:17, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Updated info on gender expression lists Sam Smith as non binary. This must be updated. LincMarx (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Did Sam Smith say he wanted to be referred to as "they"? Or are people presuming it? Largoplazo (talk) 17:36, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not Sam announced their new pronouns, it is only basic respect to not presume ourselves that they go by "he/him" pronouns. Gender-neutral pronouns are gender-neutral for a reason; they can be used for any person, *especially* one who identifies as non-binary. 50.75.209.82 (talk) 15:50, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

It's only basic respect not to presume that a given person accepts an appellation that the proponents of a particular ideology (in this case, the ideology that gender is fluid but language is not, so that because "he" and "she" have previously been gender-specific, it is unthinkable that we might now simply take a more flexible attitude toward their meaning) have taken it upon themselves to dictate. How do you know that Sam Smith wouldn't roll Sam Smith's eyes at being called "they"? And even beg not to be? Largoplazo (talk) 16:38, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Per [1], he hasn't asked anyone to switch pronouns, and he just got through referring to himself as a "gay guy". I thoroughly appreciate the complexity of the pronoun issue, but I don't much sympathize with the latest political decision by activists in a group being imposed on all members of the group without their own say-so. It isn't as though we haven't gone for years not unilaterally calling people "te/ter", "ze/zer", and "xe/xer". We can just as well wait until an individual expresses a preference for "they". Largoplazo (talk) 03:04, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Regarding the lack of Sam announcing pronouns, should we use Sam's name in place of any pronouns to avoid the issue altogether until Sam announces desired pronouns? I apologize for not seeing the talk page before, I am relatively new here.Tylernewcomb (talk) 03:30, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

It's now official. They use they/them. 1 2 Page should be edited. 2602:306:36E4:2100:7D05:FDF1:58DE:7ABB (talk) 16:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Pronouns

Sam Smith now prefers they/their pronouns, per this Instagram announcement. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 14:48, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

• Indeed, he has officially announced this. And several reliable sources have covered it, like NME, Irish Examiner and Capital FM. We should change the article to they/them pronouns asap.—NØ 16:08, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
• Agreed. I've tried to catch as many of these as possible. I also added a mention of the pronouns in to the lead. It may be reasonable to place it somewhere lower, but I think the practice should be to explain the pronoun usage before the first instance of the singular they. Nblund ^talk 16:30, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

• I agree with this; I think it should be lower, as its existence in the lead appears to give undue weight—but it's needed to provide clarity where (e.g.) "their first single" could be construed as a plural. Given that the article now reflects the "they/their" pronoun, and today's news is mentioned in the "Personal life" section, I'm going to be bold and reword the lead. MIDI (talk) 19:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I think the easiest option, especially for readers unfamiliar with gender-neutral pronouns, would be to have a hatnote to describe it, like I added in this edit. This is consistent with the existing Wikipedia usage of hatnotes to describe forms of naming that the average reader may be unfamiliar with, for example Template:Vietnamese name. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 22:35, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Hatnotes are to be used judiciously and I personally think that a hatnote is probably too much, but an editnotice might be appropriate. Sceptre (talk) 23:02, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

In my opinion, the problem is that editnotices are, well, only noticed by editors, but hatnotes are noticed by everyone. The purpose of hatnote templates (like the foreign-language name ones I mentioned above) is to provide the reader, who may be unfamiliar with stuff like this, with knowledge of why the article is the way it is. In my opinion, this situation is pretty much the same: a lot of readers will be unfamiliar with the singular they, or confused by it. And a hatnote would be useful for those readers. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 14:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I see that editors have caught the various instances of "he" and "him," but you've still missed a couple of instances of "his." I'd edit those myself -- I thought I was a registered user -- but I can't find my login info. 141.126.242.201 (talk) 23:43, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Also, for the record, all their related articles require an update. I'd do it, but I'm busy to edit that amount of pages. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 16:48, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Pronouns are NOT preferred!!!

Can someone please change 'prefers they/them pronouns' to 'uses they/them pronouns?' Calling pronouns preferred implies that there can be a choice, gives someone else the power to decide to misgender someone. Drew-Marie (talk) 17:14, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

A lot of the language guidance (Human Rights Campaign and GLAAD) talks about pronoun preferences, so I don't necessarily see this as problematic. But I also can't see a reason not to avoid that language. I've changed "prefers" to "uses", I'm open to hearing out objections if there's a reason this doesn't work. Nblund ^talk 18:41, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

1. A hatnote felt excessive to me. I've changed it to a footnote. 2. I've changed the wording to "Sam Smith's pronouns are they/them." ("uses" always feels a bit off to me in this context: a person doesn't use their own pronouns, they ask other people to use them.) (There's some irony here considering the wording of the they/them userbox on my own userpage. Perhaps I should try and get that changed...) WanderingWanda (talk) 19:57, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Of course there is a choice. You can't mean to suggest that it's literally impossible for somebody not to use the pronouns someone else wants. 86.154.141.222 (talk) 13:45, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Speaking as a nonbinary person myself, the wording I prefer to use is "goes by" such-and-such pronouns. However, "prefers" is not always inaccurate; some nonbinary people do have a ranked preference of pronouns. For example, I strongly prefer they/them/their, but do accept he/him/his (particularly from strangers who I don't have the time or inclination to educate about nonbinary gender). Funcrunch (talk) 20:59, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Grammatically Wrong

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Using their/them/they is not grammatically correct given the fact that Smith is a singular. I propose we change it to one where applicable.2601:14F:8300:2077:D1E2:DCA5:52AB:1DC1 (talk) 02:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC) No, it's not. Multiple style guides, including the AP, Washington Post, Chicago, and APA all support using it when it's the somebody's personal pronoun. The OED has examples of it going back to the 14th century. - Frood (talk!) 02:51, 17 September 2019 (UTC) Well, the style guides are wrong. Hell, the AP doesn't even call him they/their/them.2601:14F:8300:2077:D1E2:DCA5:52AB:1DC1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:58, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 14 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a clear consensus for this requested move. (closed by non-admin page mover) qedk (t 桜 c) 18:03, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

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• Sam Smith (singer) → Sam Smith
• Sam Smith → Sam Smith (disambiguation)

– Most people searching for this subject are looking for the singer, making him them the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, as suggested here. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 16:27, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 16:43, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per OP, and also suggest moving Sam Smith (artist) to a more specific title, since the singer, painter and actor can be referred to as "artists" too.--NØ 16:52, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support most definitely the primary topic. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 19:41, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support. See here for pageviews of all Sam Smiths since 2015: [2][3] In that time the singer has received 94% of the total pageviews while the dab page has been viewed more times than the rest combined. That easily satisfies the usage criterion of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. PC78 (talk) 22:10, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per the PageViews posted by PC78. WanderingWanda (talk) 22:25, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom. I also changed "him" to "them" - just because of their non-binary identity. Unreal7 (talk) 22:16, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom. brad. (talk) 01:58, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sam Smith singer.

The item in the Personal Information section about Jonathan Ziezel is incorrect. Ziezel and Sam Smith dated for a few weeks and both are gay. The subject of 'In The Lonely Hour' is a straight man and Sam has never revealed the identity of this person who is married. I should be grateful if this could be amended. Sam Smith has talked about this once in interview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JillBirks (talk • contribs) 07:37, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

@JillBirks: We need something more specific than "once in interview" to verify the statements. I don't see where adding anything about "In the Lonely Hour" is justified. —C.Fred (talk) 15:38, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Sam Smith Signature.svg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:51, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Gender expression

If they came out as non-binary, shouldn't we change the pronouns? Especially if they specifically said they are neither make note female. LincMarx (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Ask him. It isn't for anyone else to decide. Largoplazo (talk) 14:16, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I've added Category:People with non-binary gender identities. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:15, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

They have now officially changed their pronouns to “they/them”, as expressed on their personal Instagram account. Please update this page. Truthbetold2675 (talk) 15:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

No, it should be left as he/him, since Wikipedia is non-biased, it wouldn't use a term biased to a persons personal preference when refereeing to them. Do you think criminals refer to themselves as criminals, or fraudsters refer to themselves as a fraudster? No, but Wikipedia doesn't make changes for them. Wikipedia claims to be unbiased then use unbias words. --2605:A000:1E02:C30A:479:7DAF:C3BE:AB71 (talk) 05:42, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

And MOS:GENDER says we shouldn't introduce our own biases as editors into the matter. We go with how they refer to themselves. —C.Fred (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Non-binary pronouns

Smith has suggested that he is no longer gender binary. Will the page reflect this in the future? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Williamsa14 (talk • contribs) 19:37, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

If they prefer they/them pronouns, that's what we should be using per MOS:GENDERID. ModerateMikayla555 (talk) 16:54, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

According to this Vanity Fair article reporting the interview, Smith intends to continue with male pronouns "for the time being". Loganberry (Talk) 16:54, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

They announced they wanted to start using they/them pronouns on Instagram today Sep. 13 2019. 70.118.95.226 (talk) 14:38, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't agree with this at all. Wikipedia articles aren't a place where the subject's personal preference normally takes precedence. If we choose to do this out of respect, all well and good, but using what most people see as a plural pronoun is guaranteed to cause confusion if not done with care. I would suggest that we avoid use of the pronoun where possible in the article; most sentences can be rephrased to achieve that. Deb (talk) 14:20, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

That is a less-ambiguous approach. MOS guidance isn't as clear for singular they for non-binary individuals as it is for transgender individuals who have switched to another singular pronoun, but it does say that avoiding pronouns altogether is an acceptable solution. I did remove the one glaring "himself" from the article; I think the sentence is sufficiently clear with it omitted. —C.Fred (talk) 15:30, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2020

This states Sam Smith as they but he is only one person. I got very confused reading this and it is grammatically wrong. 223.205.98.37 (talk) 11:21, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: The last sentence of the lead section says "Smith is genderqueer and uses singular they pronouns." GoingBatty (talk) 14:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Should we use they/them pronouns after they identified as non-binary?

Before they came out, they were using he/him. Should we use the they/them pronouns after they identified as non-binary? Like before they came out, use he/him, and after, they/them New3400 (talk) 18:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Sam Smith has requested it: -Sam Smith did say that they identifies as a they/them, so we should respect their pronouns.

• MOS:GENDERID: Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns...that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise.
• GLAAD Media Reference Guide: Ideally, a story will not use pronouns associated with a person's birth sex when referring to the person's life prior to transition.
• The Radical Copyeditor's Style Guide for Writing About Transgender People: Some trans people do use a different name and/or pronouns to talk about themselves prior to transition, but this is rare. Unless you are told differently, only use a person’s true/current name and pronouns, even when writing about them in the past.

WanderingWanda (talk) 18:32, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.185.65 (talk) 10:14, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Why not? If they prefer that pronoun, there's no reason not to use "they/them". —C.Fred (talk) 13:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

They says that they feels "as much like a woman as a man" and that this is expressed in their actions, such as going to school in make up.

We should be embracing the progressive view that men can wear makeup, or that if a man does wear make up he is still a man.

Either way that the editors go on this one, it has ideological baggage.

Tuhawaiki (talk) 03:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Pronoun in first line

The second sentence in the first line says "He rose to prominence" when it should say "They rose to prominence." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.39.20 (talk) 23:20, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. —C.Fred (talk) 23:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)