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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SNUGGUMS (talk | contribs) at 22:55, 27 December 2019 (OneClickArchiver archived User:Mountainzoner to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1026). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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    Return of topic banned editor

    At William Greer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) a topic banned editor has returned, see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive202#Proposed topic ban for background.

    In the past months there have been edits such as:

    • Exhibit 1, repeatedly describing Greer's actions as inept despite him never being reprimanded or disciplined for his actions
    • Exhibit 2, adding YouTube "sourced" conspiracy theory and observations on Greer's actions from the Zapruder Film (obvious primary source)
    • Exhibit 3, adding more personal observations on the Zapruder Film designed to make Greer look guilty of something
    • Exhibit 4, adding an unsourced claim that Greer is the subject of conspiracy theory, adding more personal observations on the Zapruder Film designed to make Greer look guilty of something, adding unsourced speculation about the event and personal observations on an FBI report designed to make Greer look suspicious
    • Exhibit 5, adding unsourced criticism of Greer and unsourced speculation, and adding personal observations on an FBI report designed to make Greer look suspicious
    • Exhibit 6, adding unsourced criticism of Greer and unsourced speculation, and adding personal observations on an FBI report designed to make Greer look suspicious

    In addition per "those reverting the page should also be aware that their revision of relevant facts further implies conspiracy" anyone removing this crap is part of the conspiracy.

    Looking at the article's talk page this material has been discussed again and again, even if the latest IP isn't the same person it's clear they aren't here to build an encyclopedia but to push strange fringe views. Could the article be semi-protected for a lengthy period please? Grewsome47 (talk) 10:05, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Hm, okay. But who are you? As of now you have five edits. The Moose 10:58, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I semi-protected it for a week. Feel free to modify if necessary. The Moose 11:16, 23 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I range-blocked the most recent IPv6 set (2606:6000:F549:CC00::/64) a month. DMacks (talk) 05:26, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for your prompt actions. I have posted at Talk:William Greer#In case the banned editor returns again regarding the rather obvious problems with the latest attempts to smear William Greer. Grewsome47 (talk) 10:08, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Joker157 is back to doing disruptive editing

    This editor has been repeatedly disruptive editing on Watchmen by rearranging the starring/main and recurring cast order despite several warnings on his or her Talk page and hidden comments on the Watchmen article saying not to be rearrange per MOS:TVCAST again. The editor agreed to stop just last month, but failed follow through as the editor is back at it again. Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1023#User:Joker157. User:Joker157's behavior is clearly WP:NOTHERE. — YoungForever(talk) 00:01, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • FWIW @YoungForever: You should not have made four reverts in the space of 25 minutes[1][2][3][4] without attempting to discuss on the talk page first (which has hardly been touched in two weeks[5]), even if you think you are right. In this case I was most definitely right on the content (with prior talk page consensus, reliable sourcing, and both WP:BURDEN and WP:ONUS on my side) and the other party had still made more reverts than I had, and yet I was forced to self-revert pending "consensus" if I didn't want to be blocked. (And I am still putting up with the consequences of not having pushed for the other party to be blocked at that time.)
    If you think other editors are likely to agree with you, wait for them to revert. And please don't shout in edit summaries: a lot of this content is impenetrable to those of us who don't (can't, without engaging piracy) watch the show, so repeatedly shouting "Disruptive editing!" (exclamation mark yours) without making any attempt to explain why it is disruptive doesn't help us assess the problem.
    Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:16, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Hijiri88: FYI, it is clearly explained on User talk:Joker157 just last month. And there is still an open discussion on Talk:Watchmen (TV series)#About starring cast order where User:Joker157 chose not to participate in. — YoungForever(talk) 06:33, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Spshu

    This is going nowhere, and it's being used by an LTA vandal to make wild accusations. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:41, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Constantly reverting other people's edits to his liking. Needs to be taught a lesson. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:18, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Mvcg66b3r: The user has made over 29,000 edits. Please be more specific. Provide diff links and an explanation why these are disruptive. Ideally, cite a policy that was violated.
    Have you tried to resolve the issue in other ways before? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 03:02, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    These reverts on WJRT-TV: [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] He readds information that's not needed in the infobox (it's already in the article's body). Also, look at his talk page: Lots of complaints from other editors. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 04:14, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Mvcg66b3r: Sorry but you need to be more explicit and briefly explain why an edit is bad. Also, no one is "taught a lesson" here; all that may happen is that advice is given, backed with a sanction if required. The diffs given seem to be edits at WJRT-TV, and those diffs show an edit war between two editors. Meanwhile, the talk page is blank. An explanation at talk would be useful to resolve the issue, and for onlookers who might want to quickly understand the problem. Johnuniq (talk) 05:58, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Not only does Spshu choose to edit war, but s/he also vandalizes random pages by adding bad spelling, grammar and formatting on them and getting away with it while not getting facts right. S/he also doesn't believe that MGM has multiple studio partners like Warner Bros., Universal Pictures, Sony Pictures, Paramount Pictures, etc. to selectively collaborate and/or co-produce movies with, and instead s/he thinks that Sony and Fox Home Entertainment and then Annapurna Pictures, United Artists Releasing and Universal Home Entertainment were distributing all MGM movies since 2011, which isn't true at all. Plus, s/he thinks that United Artists was only revived as UA Digital Studios and not UA Releasing, and that MGM and Annapurna's initial theatrical distribution joint venture in the US was its own separate company called Mirror, which also isn't true. The initial joint venture (before it was expanded under the UA Releasing banner with the revival of UA) was just a test for both companies, with MGM investing in Annapurna's old distribution arm in exchange for releasing three of their own movies under the MGM banner in 2018, they only used the name "Mirror" as a banner for third-party movies, and UA Digital Studios is a separate little production unit from UA in general. S/he even refuses to merge the section for UA Releasing into the History section on that UA page. 36.71.252.44 (talk) 20:36, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Please provide diffs of the alleged problematic behavior if you want someone to address this issue. The allegations in this last paragraph appear to be entirely unrelated to the minor edit warring at WJRT-TV. signed, Rosguill talk 21:00, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    There are revisions by Spshu and edit wars between him/her, admins and Nate Speed. Most of these revisions have Spshu's edits, one of them has some movie removed. Diif 1 Diff 2 Diff 3 Diff 4 Diff 5 Diff 6 Diff 7 Diff 8 Diff 9 Diff 10 Diff 11 Diff 12 Diff 13 36.71.252.44 (talk) 21:20, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Most of those diffs are a) not by Spshu and b) quite old. I'm also not sure I see any evidence of edit warring on the linked articles. signed, Rosguill talk 21:27, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    They have Spshu's edits at first. There's Spshu written all over them: Bad writing and fake facts. 36.71.252.44 (talk) 21:33, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    If you're accusing Spshu of sockpuppetry, the correct venue for that is to file a case at WP:SPI. Beyond that, I'm not seeing a case for this to be discussed at ANI at this time. signed, Rosguill talk 21:37, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not saying s/he was sockpuppeting. S/he added the bad information and messed up some of the good information at first. 154.160.14.163 (talk) 23:35, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Legal threat

    Rantpoet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is on some sort of CRUSADE with what looks like BLP violations in some of their their edits. This edit hits the WP:NLT zone. If someone can talk them down that is fine. MarnetteD|Talk 04:57, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Thank you! eπ/💬 05:00, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
     Done They seem pretty NOTHERE with their other edits too. Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:09, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • While Rantpoet's behavior was unacceptable, I actually agree with them that the article is promotional. It doesn't appear that Linda Ravenswood is notable, and I think deletion is in order. Not really sure how to proceed given the circumstances that it's already at ANI. signed, Rosguill talk 05:14, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      I mean, I don't see why you can't AFD the article as normal. Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:19, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    This thread isn't about the article. It is only about the legal threat. Anyone should feel free to start a WP:AFD. MarnetteD|Talk 05:22, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Done, thanks. signed, Rosguill talk 05:35, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Appears to be back as user:Son of Rant Poet Meters (talk) 06:43, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    And indeffed by user:Cullen328 Meters (talk) 06:55, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    My block of that obvious sock who was ranting and making legal threats should not be construed as opposition to taking these articles to AfD, if editors acting in good faith do not believe these people are notable. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:59, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    IP making bad edits

    2600:1700:C970:1560:1454:DBF:83DE:BD76 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    I've noticed from editing behavior that someone edits about once a week, always with a different IP. They do mostly reasonable cleanup on bios of writers. The link above shows today's edits which are very similar to what I believe are past edits by the same person. The problem is that when they find |yearsactive= and |notableworks=, they change them to |years_active= and |notable_works=. The former is OK, but {{infobox writer}} doesn't support |notable_works=. Apparently, they don't do a SHOW PREVIEW and see the red warning message nor notice that the notable works are missing from the infobox after their edits. I have been fixing these because I monitor Category:Pages using Infobox writer with unknown parameters. Since they change IPs every time, is there any way to get their attention? MB 05:33, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Do you think the range Special:Contributions/2600:1700:C970:1560:1454:DBF::/64 covers the edits? Unfortunately, getting attention is very hard. Johnuniq (talk) 06:04, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no idea. I've just noticed a pattern, but haven't kept track of different IPs. I don't know an easy way to find previous ones, but I could start recording them going forward to see the extent of the IP range. MB 16:54, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    All the edits in the /64 appear to be the same editor, working on infobox parms. There are over 250 edits in the last 5 weeks, with gaps of 3 or 9 days between multiple-day blocks. I'd say most are adding (correctly) residence parms, summarizing content already in the article. The ones I spot-checked were cited and verified. Some other changes are to location links, and are a mix of quality. Seems like a short block of the /64 would get their attention.
    Meanwhile, I've suggested addition of the |notable_works= alias at Template talk:Infobox writer#Lists for consistency with other templates. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 10:31, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Dommiraubi continues disruptive behavior despite previous warnings

    Dommiraubi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Dommiraubi continues to edit without communicating via edit summary or talk page despite warning from OlEnglish (talk · contribs) as seen here. examples include:

    Dommiraubi has previously been reported and blocked for this behavior here. Dommiraubi has also once again used another wiki article as a reference ([14]), something I brought to admin attention before. -- Bait30  Talk? 05:48, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    I found these repeated edits at K. S. Gopalakrishnan (musician) where Dommiraubi adds the same link to an article as a reference: 1 + 2 + 3. The last of those was on 30 November 2019. Is there something more recent? I see the creation of a new article with a circular reference on 22 December 2019. Previous ANI reports were: August 2019 and December 2019. An indef might be appropriate if there is no undertaking soon. Johnuniq (talk) 06:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I see that Dommiraubi has continued to edit, and continued to fail to communicate, but their edits since their most recent warning appear to be constructive. This edit uses a weak-looking source to report the subject's recent death, but I was able to find further confirmation of this by searching online, so I'm not sure there's anything actionable here. signed, Rosguill talk 21:08, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Congrats on your adminship Rosguill! I just want to add that yes, Dommiraubi frequently makes constructive edits, especially in regards to recent deaths. One thing I did notice is that most of Dommiraubi's disruptive edits relate to Classical Indian music and playback singers such as [15] and [16]. Maybe a topic ban would isolate the disruptive edits from the constructive edits? Idk, just a suggestion.  Bait30  Talk? 03:16, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    ​​​Does anyone have any thoughts on my suggestion? I'm still relatively new here so I'm not sure exactly what the proper actions would be. However, Dommiraubi has shown that they can still make the same type of disruptive and unexplained edits despite admin warning, so it feels strange to simply ignore it just because he/she also happens to make constructive edits.  Bait30  Talk? 05:52, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Bait30, sanctions on Wikipedia are generally preventative, not punitive, and last I checked Dommiraubi hasn't made an unconstructive edit since this thread was opened. At this point, I think it's ok to take no action, but if they make another unconstructive edit while this is open, or if they're brought to ANI again for similar issues after this discussion is closed, then I think a block is unfortunately in order on WP:CIR grounds. signed, Rosguill talk 06:01, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Rosguill: oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks!  Bait30  Talk? 06:28, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Unreported Suppression at Pete Buttigieg Page

    This should have been closed earlier than now.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:29, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Edit made by User:Battleofalma on 11:59, 21 December 2019‎ was suppressed, but no admin claimed responsibility, and no rationale was provided. The topic's a bit sensitive because the Slate article specifically referenced COI editing at Buttigieg's wiki page. Please advise more about all folks there who are able to address this. Thanks! Powerrranger (talk) 17:06, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The place to ask would be Special:EmailUser/Oversight, I believe. However this wasn't an admin action, it was a Wikipedia:Oversight action, presumably the edit inappropriately linked the identity of a wiki editor(s) to real people in contravention to the WP:OUTING policy. And on such privacy-sensitive matters we generally prefer not to spill too much information & to safeguard people's privacy. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you Jo-Jo for responding to this issue. However, the article's linked to in the talk page of the article in question, so that's likely not the issue. Do you have logs of who suppressed the edit and their rationale? Would be welcome for an administrator to respond to this as this is not the first glaring problem to be identified in this article. 158.106.215.138 (talk) 18:17, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Jo-Jo is an admin, and so am I, however neither of us can see the oversight logs - one would need to be an oversighter to have that access. You could contact the oversight team via email here but it is very unlikely that you will get an answer to your question, as per Jo-Jo's answer above. Black Kite (talk) 18:33, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It was personal information and logged as such. There's nothing unusual about this, User:Powerrranger. Note that I'm an Oversighter so I can see it. Doug Weller talk 19:32, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    There's a Lot of unusual activity happening on Pete's page. Editors believe the crime rate in a mayor's city shouldn't be added to his otherwise very detailed biography, and that his flowery rhetoric about Marijuana decriminalization's more important than the policies he implemented as mayor. And it may not be unusual to redact personal information, but please clarify Doug Weller, is it unusual to not log the redaction? If everything's above board, why not simply log the redaction? 158.106.215.138 (talk) 20:27, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It wasn't a redaction, it was a suppression. El_C 20:29, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The logic for this suppression's deeply flawed. No information could have been presented in the body of the article that's not already visible elsewhere. And nobody involved in wikipedia is above providing an explanation for their actions to the community. This is not kosher. The oversighter who suppressed this information still has not been identified let alone been told to explain their actions. So many edits of this page are not kosher. Really really problematic for the wellness of the community. 158.106.215.138 (talk) 20:48, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    I wondered about this oversight as well. So referencing the Slate article is oversightable because they speculated that one editor has a COI? Slate is a fairly well-established online publication with a high readerbase, so it would be odd to consider information from it to be this sensitive. And why wasn't ordinary logged revision delete enough? This is concerning. --Pudeo (talk) 20:22, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Direct links to the Slate article by Ashley Feinberg have also been oversighted without a log at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Next issue/In the media. So even The Signpost has been censored to not discuss a COI issue reported in high-circulation online media. What is happening in OS team? --Pudeo (talk) 20:38, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    See discussions here and here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Oversight, by its very nature, cannot be discussed in a public place such as this. If you disagree with it then please follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Oversight#Complaints. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:36, 24 December 2019 (UTC) P.S. I would add that it seems very likely that we will get lots of such complaints in the next ten or eleven months until the next US presidential election. Please let's recognise that this is an enyclopedia, not a campaigning tool. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:41, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Oversight can and should be discussed in public. Relegating discussion about critical portions of an article regarding a man who could be the Democratic nominee to backchannels is the opposite of the wikipedia project's goals 158.106.215.138 (talk) 20:48, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yeah, no, that's not going to happen. We are not permitted to publicly discuss suppressed material. You can direct complaints about the use of the oversight tool to WP:ARBCOM for their review, they can speak to whoever suppressed the edits and get back to you. There's several good reasons none of these logs are public. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, yes, there are realities of this project for all folks. "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally". We are permitted to have discussions about anything in a non-disparaging fashion in the public domain. Convention indicating we should act counter to the mission of the Wikipedia/Wikimedia project are backwards and are changing more rapidly. There are no good reasons none of these logs are public otherwise you would have listed at least one of those reasons. 158.106.215.138 (talk) 21:31, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Direct your complaints to the Foundation. Oversight logs are private and they'd have to not just change their policy but the software to make them public. Doug Weller talk 22:12, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Always thought keeping them non-public was the point and why there are only a few dozen oversighters. There are some things that should be private. O3000 (talk) 22:20, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Unsolicited Personal Attack by BullRangifer

    I guess my advise was not heeded, so I'll make it official. I do not deem the comment in question to constitute a personal attack. AE is a better venue because we don't want AP2 to spillover at ANI. It's too chaotic. If admins at AE have failed to address the issue in question, then that could also be because the requests themselves were not potent enough. Rusf10 is free to relist this as an AE request, but I don't know if it is going to amount to much. Meanwhile we seem to have another dispute going on in this thread that seems to just be a waste of everyone's time and energy. Putting a stop to that. El_C 23:37, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    I am bringing this to the attention of the greater community since the admins at WP:AE have repeatedly failed to address this. User:BullRangifer has been warned mutliple times not to personally attack me but persists despite being completely unprovoked. History at AE:

    • July 20, 2018- "BullRangifer is warned that if they persist in making personal attacks and treating Wikipedia as a battleground, they may be topic-banned from the American politics topic area or made subject to other sanctions"
    • March 13, 2019- "The comment was clearly inappropriate, especially given the previous warning. BullRangifer has struck the comment and apologised and so I am closing this with no action, but this is thin ice being skated."
    • April 24, 2019-"Awilley has applied some specific sanctions to both editors involved. Additionally, everyone involved (and specifically Rusf10 and BullRangifer) is reminded that wikipedia is not a battleground, nor a forum for discussing politics, but a place where we summarise the world's knowledge as we find it in reliable sources. "

    Backgound: The most recent issue started as a content dispute at Donald Trump where user:MrX has been pushing to retain misleading wording in the lead that suggests a partisan report by congressional Democrats has proven wrong-doing by Donald Trump despite the fact no trial has been conducted yet. I orginally changed the word "found" to "alledged" but upon suggestion of another editor (who I do not always agree with, but have come to respect) I now support the word "charged". The dispute is currently being discussed at Talk:Donald Trump#Alleged?. This is a discussion that BullRangifer has not partcipated in. Around the same time, I also cam across the article FBI secret society and nominated it for deletion, believing in did not meet our guidelines for inclusion. That article happened to have been created by Mr. X, who then came to my talk page to make a bad faith accusation against me [17]. He then doubled down on his assumption of bad faith and threatened me "My accusation of bad faith is exactly what was called for. Watch yourself".

    Enter BullRangifer, who I cannot recall having any direct contact with in months. BullRangifer comes to my talk page completely unsolicited to back up Mr. X and say that eithier I am acting in bad faith or have "a competency issue" [18] This is the exact same WP:PERSONALATTACK that BullRangifer made here and was warned about by user:GoldenRing (see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive248#BullRangifer) As user:MONGO pointed out on my talk page [19], both Mr.X and BullRangifer have engagned in policy violating behavior. But the behavior of BullRaniger is particually troubling since he was completely unprovoked and has already been warned repeatedly not to do exactly what he just did. I should not have to tolerate this WP:HARASSMENT from a user who clearly believes the rules do not apply to him.--Rusf10 (talk) 19:21, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    This an AE matter and should have been submitted at AE. Saying that AE admins failed to address the issue in the past is not a reason to forgo that process. El_C 19:30, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • A couple of thoughts: First, the comment about bad faith is fully justified as I explained here. Rusf10 AfD'd an article that I started a little more than hour after I reverted his edit on Donald Trump. Second, I would suggest not relying on MONGO's interpretation of what constitutes appropriate behavior given that he was admonished for hostility by Arbcom in the American Politics topic area. I can produce numerous post-AP2 diffs of him following me to various fora attempting to inject himself into disputes that he had no prior involvement in. I can also document overt hostility, trolling, and other manner of grudge bearing.
    Under the circumstances of Rusf10's revenge AfD, I think BullRangifer's observations are well within the norms of conduct, especially for user talk page. Keep in mind, Rusf10 has been previously sanctioned for WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior specifically against BullRangifer. Perhaps Awilley has something to say about that. - MrX 🖋 19:51, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @MrX:Why are you WP:CANVASSING AWilley? Care to explain?--Rusf10 (talk) 19:57, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh come on. Awilley applied the sanctions and is an obvious person to call in. O3000 (talk) 19:59, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    You mean his special sanctions which have since been deprecated?--Rusf10 (talk) 20:04, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    You brought up Awilley. So, MrX suggested they may have something to say. MrX brought up Mongo. And you told Mongo on their UTP. Nothing wrong with either. But, you're getting close to BATTLE on the wrong page. O3000 (talk) 20:09, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    In the interest of not derailing this discussion with a side-issue, I have struck my comment. Welcome Awilley!--Rusf10 (talk) 20:13, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    What O3000 said, and I notified Awilley because he's familiar with your conduct style and probably has a perspective on the merits of your complaint. On the other hand, I wouldn't blame him if he just ignored this and went about his holiday festivities.- MrX 🖋 20:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    (after 3 edit conflicts) That link just leads to a section that has been hatted and crossed out. Maybe the sanctions have been deprecated, but you need to provide a link that says so, rather than such a deceptive link. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think the link is deceptive. The sanction as a whole has been deprecated. I don't know what other link to offer you since neither Awilley (or the person who deprecated it, if it wasn't him) had the courtesy to notify me on my talk page. I discovered this by myself later on.--Rusf10 (talk) 21:38, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Then tell us where you discovered that it had been deprecated. How much more deceptive could anyone possibly get than to link to a section of a user talk page that says nothing of the sort? Let's deal in facts, rather than "alternative facts". Phil Bridger (talk) 21:46, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I discovered it by clicking on the link here which goes directly to the other page I linked to. It is deprecated and that's a fact even if you don't like it. If you want to know why it was deprecated, then ask Awilley. My guess is because it was an improper sanction to begin with.--Rusf10 (talk) 21:55, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Phil..its an auto-boomerrang sanction and this says it is deprecated--MONGO (talk) 21:57, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wanted to thank MrX for so kindly mentioning my sanction from 4.5 years ago. A nonpartisan peek at the bullying and me-tooisms provided by MrX at the complainants talk provide justifications for this complaint. And while ElC may be correct this is an AE matter, its also really a NPA one, and AGF one and etc. as I see MrX has also been busy spreading holiday cheer elsewhere it seems [20], [21]. Has MrX suddenly been promoted to admin, as I am a bit perplexed by his authoritative tone. A learning lesson can be had by reading further into the linked threads I just provided where User:Mandruss offered a calming and helpful suggestion that might have alleviated the acrimony had a wee bit of AGF been provided sooner by MrX. I recognize the holidays may stress some folks out....but really....these things are solvable if we just love each other! Adding that MrX did offer his form of an olive branch later....[22] Merry Christmas to you MrX!--MONGO (talk) 21:05, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for confirming that you are still stalking me MONGO. By the way, you might not be the most credible person to be dispensing advice about assuming good faith and alleviating acrimony.[23][24][25] Cheers! 🍹 - MrX 🖋 22:15, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I stalked you to the page I linked to cause...I have that page watchlisted! In fact I was going to join the same chorus as you were on, albeit, minus the hostility and lack of AGF for I too have been a bit bewildered by their edits which have long been seen by me as well as a tad overbold. Amazingly, after this issue was brought up with them before, lo and behold I happened to watchlist their page! So whats next MrX...gonna call me a liar now?--MONGO (talk) 22:26, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Brought to the incorrect venue by the incorrect editor with unneeded side attacks. Close it before some folks talk themselves into a sanction. O3000 (talk) 21:14, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      What makes the complainant the "incorrect" one? The complainant is indicating they feel they have been unjustifiably attacked, bullied and had their competency questioned by an editor(s) that have (has) been warned previously about personalizing things.--MONGO (talk) 21:25, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      That's what I'd like to know. Where is it written that I am required to bring an unprovoked personal attack made on by talk page to AE?--Rusf10 (talk) 21:41, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also want to request that any nonpartisan admins who stumble on this thread not sanction MrX for not only bringing up a 4.5 year old sanction and then questioning my ability to recognize appropriate behavior, nor MrX saying I am trolling him (with zero diffs to prove this) or this overt hostility he claims I have. Nor should we condemn him for his defense above of Bullrangifer who has twice before been AE warned for these exact same insults about editors competencies. As I stated at Rusf10's talk, I have his page watchlisted. I saw what I believed to be some issues, MrX did not like me challenging him on his unflattering comments and told me to...well, its all here.--MONGO (talk) 21:53, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I gave three diffs above. Here's you trolling me after sticking your nose in something that you were not involved in [26]. Remember, when you and two other editors were following me to various articles. (One editor is now banned. The other was topic banned.) Let me know if you see a pattern here. I do. - MrX 🖋 22:39, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I do not remember that, no. I dont do cryptic or psychic well. Care to show me where I was sanctioned ever for stalking. This gets better by the minute.--MONGO (talk) 23:12, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Whew! It's good this wasn't a "solicited" attack. When was the last time someone solicited such?

    Unless Awilley's one year sanction from April 13, 2019, on Rusf10 for their vexatious dramaboard filings against me has expired or has been lifted, this is a violation of the sanction. This will be the FOURTH such filing. Even if it's expired, this behavior should resurrect it, and with a vengeance.

    Lest there be any confusion, the sanction on me only applies to article talk pages. My criticism of Rusf10 was very specific; it was explained; it was on their personal talk page and not an article talk page; and it was not gratuitous or uncivil.

    I see this as a thin-skinned response labeling my justified criticism as a personal attack. The appropriate response is a ban hammer, multiple flying slimey-trout boomerangs, and other sanctions for holding a grudge and now trotting it out as a continuation of Rusf10's previous battleground behaviors. There are a number of behavioral violations here.

    We have guests for the next couple days, so I'll have limited time to really deal with this. Merry Christmas to everyone! -- BullRangifer (talk) 23:00, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    According to this, the sanction is still in effect. - MrX 🖋 23:11, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Regardless of that deprecated special sanction, "it's the thought that counts" in the Holiday season. In my opinion this report is boomerang-worthy on its own 2 feet. This is the kind of documented behavior that led to Rusf10's sanction and it would have been better to dispense a TBAN at the outset. SPECIFICO talk 23:30, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    This actually now should be looked at over at AE.--MONGO (talk) 23:36, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Humanoid

    User realises this was a Bad Idea and is unlikely to repeat it. Unblocked. Guy (help!) 17:07, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Humanoid added {{dubious}} to the statement that Wikipedia is not censored at Wikipedia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), based on the rationale that "any mention of [speculated whistleblower] is being censored from the whole encyclopedia". That was WP:POINTy but after reviewing other edits and comments I have blocked for BLP violations as the commentary at talk:Wikipedia makes it clear that he has triggered filter 1008 (the logs are suppressed so maybe an oversighter can verify?) Guy (help!) 19:28, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Whistleblowers were discussed recently along with that same edit filter. Is it possible it's the same person ? Necromonger...We keep what we kill 19:45, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Wekeepwhatwekill, unlikely, this person has been around sporadically for a while. Guy (help!) 09:58, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • endorse block The intent of "not censored" is to answer whining about sensibilities wounded by encyclopedic content. The encyclopedia can and must 1) protect itself from potential harm and 2) protect others where the potential harm outweighs any encyclopedic benefit. Pointiness and not here are very good reasons to block in order to prevent disruption.-- Deepfriedokra 22:03, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Endorse block It's one thing to misunderstand WP:NOTCENSORED (who has time to read all these links!?) but recent activity shows an SPA-like zeal with disruption and POINT thrown in. Johnuniq (talk) 00:04, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:116.123.84.174 and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean)#Sea of Japan (East Sea) 2

    Upon expiration of the previously imposed block (see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1019#User:116.123.84.174 and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean)#Sea of Japan (East Sea)), User:116.123.84.174 has resumed the same behavior, to wit, knowingly contravening Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean)#Sea of Japan (East Sea). Requesting a longer block. --Bsherr (talk) 20:54, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

     Done, blocked for a year.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:26, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Block needed

    This IP Address, User:158.174.241.199 is not only vandalizing The College Board article, but they're also including BLP violations as well. They may also be editing as this IP User:108.45.130.7 as well, same page, same stuff, BLP violations, vandalism. I suggest a block and a revdel of pretty much all of their additions Necromonger...We keep what we kill 21:02, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Blocked both for vandalism and hid the article text for the offending revisions. Whether or not they're the same person, they're certainly editing in concert. signed, Rosguill talk 21:20, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:RaeFguynn AKA Ameer Jackson

    Essentially User:RaeFguynn is Ameer Jackson, a (by doing a quick WP:BEFORE search) non-notable professional basketball player who is currently spamming editor's talk pages who have written about basketball asking us to write an article on him to put his name out there. He's even admitted to using a different username in order to deceive admins. I left a message and a general warning telling him to stop spamming editors but to no avail. Requesting a block because he's clearly only here to use Wikipedia to promote himself. Best, GPL93 (talk) 21:26, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Indefinitely blocked. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:48, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Editor adding dubiously-sourced material despite repeated requests to stop

    This editor showed up last month and reinserted highly dubious content[27] (in one case based on a source that clearly got the information in question from the Wikipedia article) that had been removed from the article Mottainai almost two years earlier by a consensus on the talk page. He then edit-warred over it[28] while refusing to engage in constructive discussion on the talk page (Ctrl+F "personal opinion" here). He threatened to canvas !votes with a biased RFC question, which I told him not to do so without consulting me but he did anyway.

    The RFC ended a month later with minimal uninvolved participation, but most favouring the replacement of what was there with either a fuller and better-sourced etymology section or something like the bare-bones etymology that was there following the February 2018 discussion. (The simple !vote count was tainted somewhat by two bad-faith editors who showed up because of their history with me, but clearly had not actually looked at the content.)[29] MTW then tried to reopen the RFC despite it being obvious no one new was coming to support him (literally no one had supported his "version A" in three weeks, with almost everyone new supporting "version C"). My only guess as to his motivation for this move would be to make me and others have to wait another month to remove the dubious content from the article. I reverted, for which action Edwardx (talk · contribs) thanked me (so I can only assume my action was procedurally sound; if not, I apologize). MTW's next action was to restore the dubious content.[30] I originally drafted this report several days ago, which had seemingly convinced him to drop it for the time being, but he returned on Christmas Eve to renew his bogus accusation that my edits (accurate representation of reputable scholarly sources) constitute "personal opinions".

    It seems like there is no end in sight, so could someone please block the user? Or do we need to have a TBAN discussion? The editor has done basically nothing on the project for the last 45 days except troll me (if you read through the discussion it should be obvious that he isn't pushing a consistent POV; he just wants content out when I want it in -- Ctrl+F "etymology" to see how his view changed exactly when mine did -- and wants it in when I want it out, even when overwhelming talk page consensus, an honest reading of what the sources say, and simple common sense support my view) so an editing restriction seems like the wrong move here.

    Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Okay, without speculating on why this didn't work, I'm just going to say I withdraw it and am taking some time off from editing Wikipedia. I wish you all a merry Christmas, and possibly a happy New Year if my break lasts that long. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:52, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm unwithdrawing the above. Of the relatively large number of uninvolved editors, only two have expressed substantial disagreement with me, and of those two one has only 300 edits to his name and the other is apparently nursing a grudge against me for some issue his repeatedly refused to elaborate on. (The latter also has a history of disruptively ignoring the substance of ANI reports with bogus "content dispute" dismissals, at least in specialized/scholarly topic areas like this one.) I only retracted the above in the hopes that the reprisals would stop and the thread would be closed, and after well over two days this has not happened -- and at this point it would be unfair if the opinions of Ryk, Reyk, Nishidani, SMcCandlish, SN54129 and Bonadea were dismissed just because at one point early on I was tired of being harassed. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:43, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • comment From the talk page, I can definitely see major problems with Hijiri88's tendentious editing. He's quite dismissive of the side that has the facts on their side. Hard to say what is best to do, but there's no cause to sanction Martinthewriter here. Krow750 (talk) 20:18, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Reasonable minds may differ. In this case, "has the facts on their side" is clearly in dispute. - Ryk72 talk 20:24, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Proposal

    I argue that Hijiri88 should not continue to edit the article on mottainai. My edits prove that mottainai is a word of Buddhist origin, and I don't think that's as controversial as Hijiri88 claims. One editor said, concerning the Buddhist etymology, "Any fool, including myself, can type mottainai and Buddhist into Google Scholar and see that it's, at least, a significant minority view." The bigger problem here is Hijiri88's "battleground mentality".

    The admin Floquenbeam recommended a request for comment to solve the issue[31], so I created a request for comment based on the only two versions of the article that were available at the time. Most respondents preferred to keep the info on Buddhist etymology, but Hijiri88 skewed the request for comment by threatening anyone who disagreed with the highly dubious edits he was making. Instead of productive dialogue, he keeps telling me "I will be requesting that you be blocked" and "the only people who could not see this after it is pointed out to them would be paid editors with a vested interest in spreading misinformation." He told Francis Schonken (talk · contribs) "I will be requesting that your previous one-year block be reinstated, this time indefinitely" and "So, you're doubling down on your revenge-trolling?". When IvoryTower123 (talk · contribs) made useful commentary, he said, "Stop trolling" and "I will ask you to take this last chance to demonstrate your good faith by retracting your !vote". He unjustifiably told Margin1522 (talk · contribs) "if you don't edit Wikipedia anymore, why are you even here? Why not go violate copyright on some other website?"

    Also, Hijiri88 was warned about edit warring[32], but is still reverting now with offensive edit summaries.[33][34]

    I think the talk page discussion establishes Hijiri88's problematic original research and misreading of sources, but it becomes a big issue when he uses harassment to impose these changes on the article. I propose that this user no longer be allowed to edit this article.Martinthewriter (talk) 06:26, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • Hijiri88's collaboration on Wikipedia has been troubled to say the least, so to come here demanding a straight block of another editor is going to require some investigation. At the moment what I am seeing is a straight content dispute and the venue for that is WP:DRN. Or we can handle this here and now with an iBan for both editors and a T-ban for them both to the disputed article. Whatever, I'm not going to issue any blocks or untangle this mess to establish who is right and who is wrong - let DRN do that first. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:56, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Kudpung: An IBAN wouldn't resolve the issue, though. Multiple other editors (not pinging for fear of canvassing accusations, but their names are Imaginatorium, Curly Turkey, Nishidani, SMcCandlish, Ryk72 and HAL333) have already voiced support for my position (the article should summarize the relevant scholarship and not include misrepresentation or citation of unreliable sources) -- does MTW need to be banned from interacting with them as well?
    A one-way IBAN might prevent MTW from trolling me on this or other articles further, but I haven't actually seen any evidence that he intends to follow me to other articles, so a page-ban would be better.
    And what good would DRN do that the RFC hasn't already? If I voluntarily change my position to accommodate MTW (as I already did), he will just change his position to whatever the opposite one of my current one is. All DRN typically does is allow both parties to a dispute to express their opinions, maybe get one new constructive outside opinion, with no solid dispute resolution method if those opinions are intractable, and MTW has already demonstrated that he is more interested in disagreeing with me than in pushing any particular content point (I have made concession after concession on issues like the length of the etymology section, the discussion of Buddhism, and the citation of Siniawer, but he has consistently shifted his position so the argument can continue).
    Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:03, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Martinthewriter isn't the one with a long history of unsociable behaviour. I wasn't talking about a one-way ban, I was talking about keeping you both away from each other and both of you away from the article. Traditionally iBans and T-bans need some community input but If I were you Hijiri88, I wouldn't belabour the issue too hard otherwise there might be a sting in the tail which an admin can handle unilaterally. Take it to DRN first and see what they say. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:36, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I figured someone might bring up my "long history", so for what it's worth I have filed a grand total of two ANI reports in the last year.[35][36] I am not sure exactly what history of mine you are referring to, but my only negative interaction directly with you in the past, as far as I remember, was in the 2013 Enkyo2 (talk · contribs) issue,[37] when, if I recall, my "unsociable behaviour" was mostly me expressing frustration that you were being an irresponsible admin and refusing to look at the evidence of disruptive behaviour that was presented to you.
    In this case I have been busting my ass for the better part of two months trying to accommodate this editor while also maintaining the integrity of our article and its sourcing standards, but this approach has not been working. If you are not actually going to click on the diffs provided, I would ask why you are even commenting here.
    Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:46, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    There's more I could explain in detail (e.g. Hijiri88's forum shopping, etc, etc), but I think I've made my point. I'd suggest Hijiri88 not to bludgeon this extended comment of mine on this noticeboard, but instead, for instance, demonstrate they can provide a good summary of Siniawer's views on the mottainai topic, which could be used in Wikipedia's mainspace. Thanks. --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:01, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay, despite my posting a statement of wikibreak on my talk page and my withdrawing this ANI report, others have apparently continued to seize on the chance to badmouth me on ANI. I do still intend to stay away from the site for a few days, and I don't intend to pursue further sanctions given the mess this has become, but I will defend myself against Francis's lies and half-truths if he is going to refuse to retract them. Needless to say, virtually everything in the above comment is either (a) completely untrue or (b) a gross distortion of the truth. Two of the worst examples are addressed here
    I didn't "bludgeon" anyone, and responded politely as far as patience would let me to editors who both agreed and disagreed with me -- I will leave it to SMcCandlish (talk · contribs) to dismiss the about untruth that he had become less supportive of my preferred version of the article;
    and here
    Francis Schonken is not now, nor has he ever been, interested in improving the article, and his taking credit for my proposal to give a fair summary of Siniawer 2014 -- posted almost immediately after I finally gained access to the source -- is disgusting and offensive; I have put hours and hours of painstaking research into building the article, while Francis has made one minor edit to the article almost two years ago[40] and has used that as an excuse to post no less than 18 times on the talk page, mostly making snide remarks about me that have nothing to do with the substance of the article.
    Do I need to go through the rest point by point?
    Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:00, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    1. The proposed paragraph is largely insufficient as a summary of Siniawer's writing on the mottainai topic, as I said & explained at Talk:Mottainai#Consensus?
    2. I'd suggest Hijiri88 stop interpreting and implementing what they call consensus (and usually only reflects their own ideas forced on others), at least as long as ""has the facts on their side" is clearly in dispute" (as Ryk72 put it above).
    3. For the time being I see no reason whatsoever to withdraw anything of what I wrote above, instead I'd ask Hijiri88 to go through the entire Talk:Mottainai page and WP:STRIKE whatever denigrating comments they gave there about fellow editors. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:25, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    So ... is anyone going to reinstate Francis Schonken's recently expired year-long block for this blatant IDHT and disruptive pestering? He was essentially blocked for refusing to get the point, and then almost immediately after his block expired he tracked me down and proceeded to not get the point again, as demonstrated by the above. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:37, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Apropos #2, I think that it's clear from Hijiri88's initial post in the "Consensus?" section (and indeed from the question mark itself), that they are asking if a consensus has formed, not declaring that one has formed. I do not see that this is problematic. - Ryk72 talk 11:00, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Hijiri88 implemented their view on the outcome of the RfC by edit-warring (diffs given above, #3 of my first contribution to this section), whether or not they stated explicitly that that was how they saw the outcome of the RfC – the language they used in the edit summaries of these diffs is explicit enough: anyone thinking otherwise is, in their view, a troll or some such otherwise negligible contributor. That's far below what is expected from a contributor by behavioural policies. --Francis Schonken (talk) 16:43, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I see a gap of some days between the start of the "Consensus?" section and those edits, and note that during that time at least two other editors opined that there had been a consensus reached, and that it favoured the version implemented.[41][42] - Ryk72 talk 20:34, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Re. "I see a gap (etc)" – what are you trying to say: that it is OK to call co-editors trolls because there is some sort of gap in time? No, that is not a justification – it is just wriggling to find a reason to defend the indefensible: Hijiri88's behaviour was far below what is acceptable per Wikipedia's behavioural policies. I've given the diffs, read the edit summaries of these diffs: unacceptable, period. --Francis Schonken (talk) 22:38, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    No. It was implied that the editor had unilaterally declared a consensus and implemented their preferred version. I do not believe the evidence supports such. - Ryk72 talk 22:53, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Francis, your own behaviour (including what could be politely referred to as trolling due to the absence of any conceivable good-faith alternative -- worse descriptions for the same behaviour could, depending on interpretation, include "far-right nationalist POV-pushing", "deliberate battleground behaviour" and "stalking") has been far, far worse, and is especially surprising coming from someone who recently came off a year-long block that had been put in place for refusing to get the message of a previous long block that had expired only 11 days prior.
    You can either stop engaging in behaviour for which "trolling" is the most civil possible description, or you can stop trying to get people sanctioned for desperately trying to assume good faith even long after you've drained all their patience: you cannot have it both ways.
    Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:51, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose proposal. Clearly inequitable. In so far as there is blame to be apportioned, and I am not yet convinced that sanctions of any kind are warranted, it would be grossly unfair for it to be laid entirely at the feet of this one editor. They have outlined clear reasons as to why content should or should not be included; opposing editors appear to have failed to engage with those reasons. - Ryk72 talk 20:30, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      Re. "opposing editors appear to have failed to engage with those reasons" – the main reason for that is quite ostensibly Hijiri88 behaviour towards fellow editors (see above): if they can't write two paragraphs in a reply to an editor they disagree with without lashing out at such fellow editor for being a troll, being otherwise incompetent or whatever, it is Hijiri88 who buries reasonable discussion in a marinade of rationale (i.e. the "ad hominem" rationale) which one should not engage with. --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:25, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    No. I don't think so. - Ryk72 talk 10:56, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose. Hijiri found himself alone against several editors who have a minor, negligent or zero competence in Japanese, let alone Japanese scholarship. He has proved by sedulous source scrutiny to be right in most cases on the talk page, but finds himself outvoted. It's true his style is often annoyingly bludgeoning, and I have often remonstrated with him to not waste such enormous efforts on arguing with people who have no intention of listening, esp. when their competence is just googling key words and reading around a bit without an indepth knowledge of the contexts. I do wish Hijiri would stop wasting his and my, for one. fucking time by allowing himself to be sucked into useless TLDR talk pages. But, you know with him, that any page's sourcing will be minutely checked, even to the extent of him making library searches to ascertain exactly what primary sources say, as opposed to what skimpy unprofessional secondary sources report. I can't say that of most editors who get into disputes on this topic area with him. He really however should take a break and think over why anyone would want to waste their lives arguing in defense of the obvious when it is not going to run on this or that page due to the contingencies of random curiosity by editors visiting it. It's up to him to wake up and the personal cost of dedication to minutiae on Wikipedia, when he will often be overruled by disattentiveness. He should not be punished by a rackety arbitration process not aware of what is at stake, simply because he happens to be right but is ignored by editors who dislike his argumentative attitude, and don't evaluate precisely the value of hgis input on articles. It's all very Framish, if on a minor scale. Nishidani (talk) 21:04, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose very strongly. Hijiri is competent, which is (or ought to be) the most important thing here, and I fail to see anything other than pretty mild expressions of very understandable frustration in what is linked and quote above. Also, what Ryk72 and Nishidani says. --bonadea contributions talk 11:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • 'Oppose per Ryk. ——SN54129 11:58, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose per WP:RANDY. Reyk YO! 12:05, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose both proposals, because a block isn't how we handle such matters (the OP was a bit over the top), but this is nothing like a WP:BOOMERANG (Francis Schonken's counter-proposal is even more off-kilter). A topic-ban might be appropriate for Martinthewriter. This kind of says it all: "My edits prove that mottainai is a word of Buddhist origin". One's edits don't prove anything; sources do, and the sources on the matter are not in agreement. I arrived at that article in response to a WP:FRS RfC notice, and have no particular interest in the topic. A review of the talk-page activity demonstrates that Martinthewriter has been rather tendentious about it, and only wants to accept the view in particular sources (WP:CHERRYPICKING). As for Francis Schonken's big rant up there (and continued below), it's obviously motivated by old-history animosities, and someone just returning from a quite lengthy block is in no position to be taken seriously in criticizing others' behavior, and it's hypocritical to label Hijiri88 as combative and ad hominem in the same breath as spinning his every post as "bludgeoning", over and over again like a chant. While I agree with H88's decision to take a wikibreak, maybe F.S. needs one as well. H88 is correct that F.S. is misrepresenting what the diffs show. For example, I did not waffle at all on my support for "version C", I simply added (after "Version E" was posted) that "Version E" might be acceptable, with certain changes, while still explicitly preferring "Version C."  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:30, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @SMcCandlish: I wouldn't mind Martin getting a TBAN or a PBAN. I just think it's unnecessary red tape (how many usernames taking up space at WP:RESTRICT belong to SPAs or editors who have since been indefinitely blocked or site-banned?) for an editor who is not so much pushing a particular POV as changing his positions constantly in order to be as annoying as possible to the editors he doesn't like. To give another example (separate from the "etymology" one given above): the "personal opinion" thing doesn't actually help in advancing the far-right nationalist POV most of his article edits lean toward, but he has repeated it seven times nonetheless. Most of my historic edits in the "Japanese nationalism" area have seen me on the other side, as Talk:Korean influence on Japanese culture will attest, so Martin knows my personal opinion actually has nothing to do with it -- he has just been repeating the comment for sole purpose of annoying me, and while a page ban would ameliorate the problem it likely wouldn't solve it, as Martin would either follow me to a different article (I've written hundreds) or find a different editor to badger. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:51, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    OP on wikibreak

    Hijiri88, the OP of this ANI section announced their wikibreak, just before editing this noticeboard at 07:52, with a

    Fuck it. ... [43]

    Imho a sad spectacle underlining the contempt which the editor blatantly shows towards Wikipedia and its editors. --Francis Schonken (talk) 14:34, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • That's a pretty imaginative interpretation. Reyk YO! 16:13, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • My interpretation is that Hijiri88 realized they had lost perspective and that they were thrashing about hurtfully and really need a breather. I think they sometimes get a little overwrought, but that they care deeply and that makes it worse. Perhaps they just need a vacation.-- Deepfriedokra 08:41, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • After their last comment above (BTW, just after I suggested they make content discussions a little less ad hominem), I'd say: definitely needs a break. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:22, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Re: "That's a pretty imaginative interpretation" – Indeed it is. While H88 can be abrasive, so can F.S., including in this very thread. In my experience, H88 is deeply committed to the encyclopedia's accuracy, and is the furthest thing from "contempt[ous] ... toward Wikipedia". Like some of the rest of us (myself included), H88 does not suffer fools or PoV-pushers lightly. Any contempt that H88 evidences is in that direction.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:30, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Someone close this now, please. The OP has struck his complaint and proven yet again that not even in this season of goodwill is he able to participate civilly and without personal attacks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:09, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      Kudpung, I would appreciate it if you struck the above offensive and groundless remark about me. hI was forced to come back and address the personal attacks that were made against me. I can understand if you are not going to either refrain from commenting on ANI threads without clicking on the diffs or actually click the diffs and act accordingly, but to attack an editor like this is clearly inappropriate, whatever the calendar date. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:50, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Note I've unstricken my complaint, given that Kudpung has refused to comply with my request that he withdraw the above personal attack while the (worse) attacks from Francis have continued, and more than two days have passed without any sign of the thread being closed, but with other editors showing up and, almost uniformly, agreeing with my complaint (or at least disagreeing with Francis/Martin), who probably shouldn't have their commentary ignored just because two days ago I was too tired and gutless to defend myself. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:43, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I second the proposal to close this. Keeping it open serves no useful purpose, and hopefully the discussion so far has shown people that, however frustrating it might be, even if an editor is in the right consensus might go the other way. That's just something we need to accept, and get on with more important things in life - in my case playing with my baby grandson. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:25, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • There's a balance, however, between WP:TRUTH and WP:ENC, and the latter is ultimately more important. See WP:FALSECONSENSUS and WP:SYSTEMICBIAS. It is not okay for a broken pseudo-consensus to result in WP distributing misinformation. It may not need a particular editor to address it, especially in a hotheaded mood, but it does need to be addressed.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:30, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        FWIW, that last sentence is exactly why I came here; if Kudpung or Krow750 is willing to monitor the article and keep Martin and Francis in check (and keep this bogus abuse of sources out of the article), I would be very happy to step away. But given that, as a direct response to this ANI discussion, Francis is now threatening to distort the article further (by dismissing the premier dictionary of the Japanese language as a source for a dictionary definition), and Kudpung has essentially denied that there is an issue with these editors' content edits, I'm reluctant to do so. (Hundreds of articles written by the blocked editor Enkyo2 still cite an unreliable source more than six years after Kudpung refused to recognize the issue with that editor, and exactly the same thing has been happening here.) I really don't understand why the community can't be bothered page-banning an editor who has engaged in nothing but disruptive behaviour on the article for a month and a half so I don't have to do this. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:37, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        The "fate of the article and its contents" matter, as it were, doesn't strike me as an ANI (disciplinary) issue, but more of a WP:RSN or WP:NORN one. As for the first part (the hounding thing), that would be a disciplinary matter but would need more evidence than problems at one article.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:41, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Yet more misrepresentation of sources

    Another source has been found that explicitly contradicts the content Martin has been trying to include in the article despite his having previously claimed the opposite. If there ever was a "content dispute", it ended a month ago when it was first found that Martin was misquoting sources: now the only question is what to do about it. SMcCandlish suggested that he might be in favour of a page-ban (or topic ban?), and I would be amenable to that. I still think that this is not a case of tendentious POV-pushing in a particular topic area but rather targeted trolling (given the flip-flopping on certain points mentioned above) and would support a block for the edit-warring, IDHT, willful misrepresentation of sources, etc. (anything from a one-day block to an indefinite one). But again, I'm open to other suggestions and would support a page ban or other kind of editing restriction if others still disagree with me on this point. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Trout them all. Presenting religiously mottainai as if there was something worth the trouble, is a joke. Using a Japanese word to change a banality into some mysterious and ineffable concept, is only a promotional trick. This is for Martinthewriter, Francis Schonken etc. And then, why trouting also Hijiri88 ? For such a poor defense of what was obvious from the beginning. Don't mottainai our precious time with such a bludgeoning quarrel about a non-existing concept. Striking all of this shameful article is not what can be suggested here. But this is not an argument against the suggestion itself. Pldx1 (talk) 16:42, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Swarm: Sorry to bother you (merry Christmas, by the way!), but would you please block the above editor (or at least strike/collapse his comment and warn him) for violating your repeated warnings to him to stop hounding me? He hasn't edited ANI in eight months (and has hardly edited English Wikipedia in four months), so there's very little room for AGF in this case. That plus the fact that he is an anti-Japanese Korean nationalist who in this case is essentially defending editors pushing a Japanese nationalist POV just because in this case the latter are fighting with me ("don't ban them, just trout them -- and trout Hijiri too!") makes it really obvious that the above cannot be justified. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 17:08, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    New York / New England radio and roads IP editor

    This IP editor makes hundreds of questionable edits per month to radio stations and roads in the New York and New England region. Some of the IPs have been templated for some of it. This latest one is involved in a 3RR edit war at WILI (AM), after which they posted this polite request. Could someone familiar with radio articles look at the style and other edits they are making, and maybe get their attention, as they don't seem to know or care about how we do things. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 13:21, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    BTW, I redacted the email from that HD post in case someone feels it should be revdel'd. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 13:23, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Blocked. This is block evasion by Special:Contributions/32.211.63.156. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Disruptive editing by User:Prehistoricplanes

    As discussed here, the user has been disruptively been editing several Template:Taxonomy, which is highly problematic as this affects many articles using automatic taxoboxes. Upon reversion, the user began replacing the automatic taxoboxes with manual ones with his opinions on taxonomy (such as here). The user has continued to ignore attempts at discussion, and displays no willingness to cooperate. User has a history of creating questionable claims on articles with unreliable sources without justification. Suggest a 1 week block for disruptive editing, can extend to a topic ban on animal articles if disruptive editing continues afterwards. @Peter coxhead, Lythronaxargestes, and IJReid:   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:35, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • Support ban I have tried to engage with this user, but with no success. A ban seems the only answer. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:06, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support both the action and duration. The user needs to understand what processes have to go down before making major edits to some high-profile taxonomy articles. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 16:12, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Can those templates be WP:TPROT instead? They look to be rarely edited and probably don't need to be edited without good reason anyway. I know there are tons of templates [44], but a bot could do it. If the user responds to this ANI maybe sanctions can be avoided. Let's wait to see if they respond. Rgrds. --Bison X (talk) 18:21, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Template protecting all taxonomy templates seems to be a bad idea to me. They need to be updated whenever taxonomic revisions happen, and while that's not too often per taxon (and thus per separate template), the number of taxa that get revised, synonymized, moved to different tribes, subtribes, subfamilies, etc. each year is pretty massive. Template protection for the highest ranks makes sense (there's relatively few of those and they don't change that often), and maybe semi-protection or extended-confirmed protection for the rest, but not t-prot for all of 'm. Additionally, a lot of those templates do still need references, or need better references than what's there. Making it even harder for people to correct that means they probably won't get filled/improved. AddWittyNameHere 20:44, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    (Non-administrator comment) That wouldn't help in this case, as the user just removes the automatic taxobox from articles (e.g., I cancel automatic taxobox because Gorgonopsia dont is broader group Theriodontia). Note they made two edits to {{Chordata}} after this case was started, but haven't responded here. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 06:22, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support. The user does not understand anything about due process or collaborating with other editors, and I don't think they will learn the soft way. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 21:57, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • There is no need to discuss a ban. While an indefinite block may be warranted, a ban is not needed for this level of problem. I will warn the user that they need to explain how they will avoid problems in the future, bearing in mind the following: (1) In a comment (26 November 2019) Prehistoricplanes (talk · contribs) stated that they are French user fr:User:LoiDavid2307171. That user was indefinitely blocked on 14 March 2019 ("Compte créé pour vandaliser"); (2) These three edits at User talk:Prehistoricplanes#Source show that Prehistoricplanes is not able to communicate effectively in English. An indefinite block will follow if there is no satisfactory resolution. Johnuniq (talk) 08:42, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Endless POV-pushing with edit warring.

    Adding of controversial information: [45]

    Reverts to push it to the article:

    The problem is that he thinks he is correcting some kind of "injustice" or something like that: somewhere there is some kind of "Serbian arrival", and therefore he has the right for edit warring.--Nicoljaus (talk) 21:38, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • I've blocked both for edit warring after being informed of the DS for Eastern Europe and fully protected the article for a month. Hopefully, that'll encourage both parties to take this talk page and discuss it before going back at each other over the edits. TomStar81 (Talk) 00:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @TomStar81:, as an uninvolved editor, I came here by noticing that editor Mikola22 ceased to engage in an identical POV pushing and reverts across the ARBMAC/EE articles, especially in articles on history of Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia, to which they were in unaccounted number of dispute resolutions and reports, and whom I just wanted to report for the second time in just two days on edit-warring. Obvious reason for their sudden disappearance is this block on 72 hours. However, I couldn't avoid being under impression that editor Nicoljaus suffered a bit unfair block as a consequence of his report on Mikola22 editing behavior - we should try to put into perspective difference between editors' general attitude and approach, where one gives its all, or at least much more, in following procedures in dispute resolutions and reasonably argues his position, even if it happens to be dragged into what's technically amounts to edit-warring. It simply doesn't feel fair to lump together two editors with diametrically opposite approach to the project guidelines and policies and practical procedures, solely on the bases of technicality. Cheers--౪ Santa ౪99° 03:07, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Equally true is that both have been warned about this before and neither one opened a talk page thread or made any other effort to resolve this peacefully, and both have received DS warning on this issue. Sometimes its at the end of the gun that people finally decide to cooperate with each other as opposed to fighting with each other. That being said, admins such as myself are held accountable to the community, if others should be found to share your position I will reconsider my actions here. TomStar81 (Talk) 14:46, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    TomStar81, well, as one of the users involved in discussions with Mikola, I am also thinking that Nicoljaus was collateral damage here, but as you said it, there was no talking on the talk page, so I understand your position as well. The problem is ongoing for months now, and editing any article that had Mikola22 involved was very difficult, to say the least. Mikola22 registered in October and immediately jumped into contentious articles with tendentious editing. Mhare (talk) 16:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    NUSOJ and legal threats

    lblocked. El_C 05:26, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Just a quick followup. User has retracted the threat of legal action, so I have unblocked them. El_C 23:13, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    This clearly puts Wikipedia in an infringement position of trademarked name at Special:Diff/932387086 by Faruk129 looks like a legal threat to me. Whatever it is, it could use some admin attention. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 05:12, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User Bashargold

    I'm somewhat at a loss what to think of this editor. He appears to be systematically introducing erroneous numbers and information into numerous articles without sources or explanation, which suggests deliberate vandalism; but it's remotely possible he is posting in good faith but simply has no understanding of verifiability. For example, he has repeatedly changed the numbers of Japanese battleships built during the Second World War to 12 from 2 (the correct number, corresponding to the two Yamatos constructed during the war) but this is also the peak Japanese battleship strength during the war and it is remotely possible he is confused about what the table is supposed to show. In other articles, he has introducted production numbers at odds with the cited sources without explanation. Suggestions? --Kent G. Budge (talk) 06:12, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The user never edited any talk page, including their own user talk page, so I am not that hopeful here.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:12, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It looks like no one has even attempted to talk to this guy like a person about his edits. Other than a flurry of vandalism template warnings from the first week of December, the only thing on his talk page is this WP:ANI notification. Is it fair to criticize someone for not using talk pages when no one has even tried to talk to him on either his own talk page or on an article’s talk page?

    (I don’t mean this as a criticism of Kent Budge, who is raising a valid concern, it’s more of an issue with the way we treat potentially good faith users. ANI is often the first stop we make and assumptions are usually made here based on someone’s lack of talk page replies even when no one has spoken to them.) Michepman (talk) 15:00, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    I've tried leaving a candid but polite and wp:agf comment on his talk page explaining the concern. We'll see what develops.--Kent G. Budge (talk) 16:16, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    (sigh) Back to the same behavior. Materialscientist has applied a temporary block. --Kent G. Budge (talk) 17:48, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Rotaryenginepete

    Rotaryenginepete (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been involved in a protracted and unproductive discussion at Talk:Impeachment of Donald Trump (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs). The user is promoting a theory that the President has not actually been impeached, and is becoming increasingly aggressive on the talk page. The account seems to be an SPA, and I suspect that they (and StanTheMan0131, another SPA) might be sockpuppets. Pinging David O. Johnson. WMSR (talk) 06:46, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Don't forget the users User:MugwumpSpirit110, User:MoMoBig, User:Sonar1313, User:50.37.100.51, User:Jacket2018, User:Xenagoras, User:50.37.112.189, User:Partytemple, and others who agree with me and have also been shot down on the talk page. I clearly documented what you're calling a theory with numerous reliable sources.Rotaryenginepete (talk) 07:04, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The user continues to push their own view (going against consensus) and is unwilling to listen to other editors on the matter. It makes it frustrating to edit the article in a productive manner, since our time is spent debating Rotaryenginepete in this fruitless argument. As User:WMSR indicates here [52], the user continue to beat a dead HORSE. David O. Johnson (talk) 07:07, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    If the horse is dead, then why are there multiple edit requests and comments from dozens of users with the same concerns? Editors who singled me out are labeling opposing opinions as disruptive, instead of trying to resolve the onflict. I have even asked for constructive input and suggestions, openly stating that I want to change the request to resolve the continually highlighted appearance of bias. Repeatedly stated the goal is NPOV, which is clearly being violated with respect to the minority view.Rotaryenginepete (talk) 07:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    WMSR Let the record note that I am the one and only StanTheMan0131. Seriously dude, it's kind of paranoid of you to make assumptions just because my style annoys you. I've contributed to that article in a very positive way. I'm honestly not surprised you're the one who made this report (not even going to entertain your ridiculous sock puppet conspiracy). Either way, I have been making REAL contributions on other articles with REAL compromises with REASONABLE people for the better of everyone else. Shame on you. Let the cards fold as they may. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StanTheMan0131 (talk • contribs) 07:47, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with the OP on every point. Rotaryenginepete (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and StanTheMan0131 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) created their accounts exactly 30 hours from each other. Almost all of their edits have been to Talk:Impeachment of Donald Trump, and their commenting styles are very similar (bolding large sections of text, all CAPs headings). Both have crossed the line from productive discussion into tendentiousness. - MrX 🖋 13:52, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    StanTheMan0131I regret you were dragged into this. I asked them to take this to admin because after their threat to do so I wanted admin to see the suppressive language and now behavior being displayed on the talk page. After I have documented the Harvard lawyer and multiple reliable sources on the matter, now they are attempting to make it look like "one person's theory", blatantly ignoring the other voices on the talk page. The vast majority of those who oppose changing the language have not attempted to resolve the conflict nor contribute. Take for instance the following edit requests which were shot down by mostly the same few editors...with the sole reasoning their personal belief that Trump is officially impeached is fact, and that the provided reliable sources or opinions which counter their opinions don't matter: Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Nancy_Pelosi_Says_Articles_of_Impeachment_May_Not_Be_Sent_to_the_Senate, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Impeachment_did_not_actually_occur_yet, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Biased_claims_and_citations, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Semi-protected_edit_request_on_21_December_2019, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Importance_of_Withholding_for_This_article?, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#RE:_Removal_of_Source_Content, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Semi-protected_edit_request_on_23_December_2019, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#RfC_on_Situation, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Delay_sending_articles, Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Rename_And_Change_The_Trial_Section, and Talk:Impeachment_of_Donald_Trump#Edit_Request_for_Neutrality,_to_Resolve_the_Appearance_of_Bias. Rotaryenginepete (talk) 14:36, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • That talk page is hilarious, if you like editors getting bogged down. I saw Rotarypete say "The media is biased, there's no use in referencing them for factual content"--I think the next step is for an admin who knows paperwork to just topic-ban them from this article and the talk page. And the same for every other editor who, with 170 edits under their belt, thinks that Wikipedia is just a GREAT place to troll. Or just block them per NOTHERE. Drmies (talk) 14:45, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes that statement was in reference to the claim that media headlines are reliable sources, which is true they are biased according to Reliable_sources/using headlinesRotaryenginepete (talk) 15:16, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    There are quite a few of these eager fresh faces showing up on the Trump-related articles over the past month or so. Unfortunately there seem to be many longtime editors who either enjoy debating this sort of nonsense or who believe we're all here to educate imaginary internet personalities. We all really need to avoid any temptation to engage. There have also been some good faith redlink newcomers, but they don't engage as described above, and they have responded appropriately to discussion with longtime editors. SPECIFICO talk 14:58, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    SPECIFICO, so what do you suggest we do? ECP on the Talk page? Guy (help!) 15:43, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm afraid that would be against the spirit of WP as an open community, although I wouldn't personally oppose it. It's a matter of balance. We would lose some good suggestions that way, but the status quo is we are losing the participation of good seasoned editors who have no time or patience for role playing and time wasting on article talk pages. In general, IPs and new editors often seem to make valuable contributions. On these politics articles where there's obvious off-wiki inspiration for their visits, I haven't seen much good at all. SPECIFICO talk 16:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Topic Ban Rotaryenginepete - I had not personally made the connection between the two mentioned above. But in re to the whole talk page wall of text and requests for rewording by Rotaryenginepete, it just seemed to be like the 2019 version of "what the meaning of the word 'is' is". That particular editor has demonstrated many of the hallmarks of WP:TEND. And the editor's history looks like a single-purpose account focused on this one topic. Enough is enough. Please enforce a TOPIC BAN. — Maile (talk) 15:49, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Support in addition to a topic ban for StanTheMan0131, who I should have included in theoriginall filing. WMSR (talk) 18:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Just a quick note that Rotaryenginepete was given an American Politics discretionary sanctions alert at 03:19, 26 December 2019 [53] so before this discussion had started and a bunch of their other stuff like [54] [55]. StanTheMan0131 was given an American Politics discretionary sanctions alert at 08:50, 26 December 2019 [56] and hasn't done anything since then. So Rotaryenginepete could potentially be sanctioned under the AP2 regime if an admin feels their latest contribs indicate a problem. StanTheMan0131, not at this time. Nil Einne (talk) 17:10, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    There's also a giant notice at the top of the talk page that says to BE BOLD I offered over a dozen sources, many not opinion...yet repeatedly told they don't count. So much for NPOVRotaryenginepete (talk) 19:10, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • Comment. Without justifying either's actions (topic bans may certainly be in order), looking at some of the behavior, I think the likelihood of sockpuppetry between Pete and Stan is extremely low. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 19:25, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Topic Ban Rotaryenginepete and StanTheMan0131 for refusing to listen and bludgeoning. I just read the Talk page for the first time and I'm amazed at the amount of synthesis, extrapolating claims based on dictionaries, repeatedly citing the same opinion pieces, misrepresenting sources, the list goes on. Of course we need to AGF with new editors, but we also can't let them drive off editors who understand and uphold our core content policies. Woodroar (talk) 19:50, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Yes, cherry picking policies to strongly oppose a minority view which an editor disagrees with, such as weighting headlines over opinion pieces and non-opinion articles. The "not impeached until articles are sent to Senate" view is all over the media and academia. It's clear the majority of editors on this impeachment page aren't truly interested in NPOV. And you wonder why you're losing editors...I'll save you the trouble. Enjoy your echo chamber. Rotaryenginepete (talk) 20:31, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Fuck headlines, that much is certain. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:08, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

    Open Technology Fund

    Looks like there are concerns surrounding the Open Technology Fund article, including:

    1. Whether listing the names of OTF employees counts as an outing or not; and
    2. Is the "Controversies and Criticism" section (now removed from the article), as originally added by User:176.160.172.33, biased or not?

    JSH-alive/talk/cont/mail 12:55, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    • How is this a matter for administrative intervention? Drmies (talk) 15:04, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm unable to check if the statements were biased or not, so I wanted the admins to step in. Is there any other way to call for an intervention in such circumstances? JSH-alive/talk/cont/mail 15:34, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • It's not an administrator's job, or forte, to check whether sources are neutral or not... Before you look for intervention, we'd like to see (extensive) talk page discussion, or efforts toward discussion. Drmies (talk) 16:25, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • User:176.160.172.33 keeps reverting changes, and doesn't seem to be interacting on the talk page. I went back through their edits- one source they used as a citation was Twitter, and another source the editor linked to didn't even have the information they claimed to be sourcing. Additionally, the framing of the Controversies and Criticisms read to be more conspiracies. None of the sources listed backed up that editor's arguments- it seems extremely not neutral writing. Cellarpaper (talk) 16:30, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Drmies: As you investigate our Open Technology Fund article, please consider the issue I raised at Talk:Open_Technology_Fund under Addition to Section 3 - Projects. I believe User:Gamaliel unjustly removed my contribution for what he described in his edit summary as "Issues of BLP and NPOV." My contribution cites WP:RS and provides a straightforward narrative of a newsworthy OTF project; it does not violate NPOV. Please allow me to restore this. NedFausa (talk) 17:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • NedFausa, you can't have it both ways. If you refer to me as an "administrator" and then say I'm involved, you can hardly ask me if I would "allow" you to restore something. I am not acting as an administrator there, so there won't be any involvement, unless there are clear-cut BLP violations, for instance, which I didn't see. This removal of mine concerned highly promotional content, BTW, and I do not intend to adjudicate administratively in what, at least so far, seems like a content matter. The moment it becomes an administrative matter, it will have to be another administrator who does what needs to be done. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:DBigXray

    Closing. This is a content dispute, no reason to open an ANI case. signed, Rosguill talk 22:47, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    The Citizenship (Amendment) Act, 2019 is a sensitive, topical topic where our WP:NPOV policy, WP:OWN, WP:RS and the use of peer-reviewed scholarship and other reliable sources are particularly important. The background related to the 1955 law, their past discussions and attempts to amend their 1955 law, the election manifesto promises and views of the Hindu nationalists, as well as the persecution of Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Muslim, and others in neighboring countries of India have been discussed in recent and past ~50 years by reliable sources. There has been an ongoing content dispute (see this). We agree that "the persecution is a fact". We agree that the current Indian government claims that to be their motivation. The old version of the article lacked background on the persecution of non-Muslims and some Muslim sects in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh as discussed by past scholars and non-nationalist Indian governments. The dispute, after some discussion, got clarified to this weakness in the old version of the article. Today, I added new reliable sources published over the decades, and summary background from these about the persecution of non-Muslim and Muslim minority sects in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh in the context of refugees and their Citizenship Act. These sources and the summary has never been discussed in the past on the article's talk page.

    DBigXray has summarily deleted the added content, with no discussion of the new sources and related summary. Given the speed of the reversals, it is evident that they have not even read the new peer-reviewed scholarly and other reliable sources. This is WP:OWN behavior, with no respect for our cherished NPOV policy. I would not mind the deletion if they had explained their objection to the new RS, or the summary therein, or similar constructive discussion. DBigXray is showing WP:OWN behavior and associated disruptive behavior. I have tried to start a discussion for the full version, offered a partial compromise, but to no avail (also see my offer that I will delete what I added, in the thread above, were they to read the newly added sources and then explain their concerns). I do not seek immediate sanctions on DBigXray. I seek that DBigXray be warned to stop acting as a gatekeeper of the affected article and stop their summary deletion of RS and new content in any wikipedia article with no constructive discussion on the article's talk page. This is hostile and is counter to our cherished consensus that we are "open to new contributions and reliable sources" to improve wikipedia articles.

    I will shortly post the required notice on their page. @Kautilya3, Vanamonde93, and WBG: since you have been involved in the discussions over the last week. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 16:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    This content dispute would benefit from engaging in normal dispute resolution procedures (and accompanying requests). This ANI request, therefore, seems somewhat premature. I'm not sure it has reached the stage of being truly intractable. Try to get some outside input into the dispute (ANI should not serve as a mechanism toward that end). El_C 16:34, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - I agree that this is a content dispute, and doesn't belong here. There is a humongous talk page section where this has been discussed. The CONSENSUS is clearly against MSW. I have no idea why she is unable to see it. I recommend taking it to WP:DRN. (But God help any one volunteering to resolve it!) -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:49, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • There is clearly no consensus on the talk page for Ms Sarah Welch's edit, and it has been disputed, so it should not be made until such consensus is reached. I have no opinion on the edit itself, as that is a content issue that should continue to be discussed on the talk page, not a matter for this noticeboard. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:04, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment – @DBigXray:: you didn't provide edit diffs from the 6 editors that support your accusation "6 editors have accused her version as POV infested". I have already embedded quotes in several cites and included efn notes with exact quotes, to ease WP:V. If you are alleging that the added content is summarizing the view published in mainstream scholarly RS on persecution-refugees-India law as "POV-pushing", I do not understand you given that we should summarize all major main sides, as stated in the RS and in their words, per our cherished NPOV policy. Kautilya3: I am not going to reinstate that subsection, will patiently try the DRN and appropriate steps. It would help, as Phil Bridger implies, if you and we all read the sources I have just added, discuss them on the talk page, and collaborate to improve the article further. I urge your patient review in light of our NPOV policy. I am willing to revise/delete/add whatever a reasoned consensus yields, but as Vanamonde explained earlier "for god's sake" don't make this about votes, this is about the core policies of wikipedia. @El C: Which NB would you suggest next? Thank you, Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 17:13, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The main thing that I am implying, or rather saying directly, is that major changes to the article should not be made by edit warring, but by consensus arising from talk page discussion. That takes time, especially if editors are in different time zones, so don't be in such a hurry to make your changes. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Indeed, MSW I did not add diffs for the 6 editors, but I did mention the names and linked Talk:Citizenship_(Amendment)_Act,_2019#Background, the "humongous" talk page thread for ANI contributors to see. The ANI contributors should also note the amount of filibustering you had been doing on the talk page. Also please point me where on the page WP:CONSENSUS does it say that the version with more efn notes is the preferred version in a content dispute. Not sure why you feel that more efn notes trumps the process of Consensus. You blatantly edit war and when your efforts are objected, you accuse others of WP:OWN, very nice. It is quite shocking to know that in all these years you have been editing, you have failed to grasp that ANI does not entertain content disputes. ANI cannot help you if are unable to get consensus among other editors on the Article talk page. You have to understand that ANI is not a venue to get your preferred version into the article. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 17:26, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Ms Sarah Welch: I don't know what NB stands for. I recommend trying to gain consensus for your edits by getting more outside input from uninvolved editors and/or through engaging in compromise with those ones who are involved and object to the current version of your addition. Good luck! El_C 17:35, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @El C: Presumably "NB" means "noticeboard." Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:59, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I knew Nota bene didn't make sense! El_C 18:37, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User Melroross

    I edited an article changing a phrase that didn't match with the content of the source it had attached, and I replaced that phrase with words literally extracted from the source.[57]

    However, user Melroross systematically eliminated the entire edition accusing me irrationally of having a biased vision for being "Spaniard" or "Brazilian". After observing that he kept eliminating my editions, I decided to reverse my edition and register in WP to open a thread to discuss the problem in "Talk" and stop the Edit War. There, I presented my arguments and showed that my edition was not a personal opinion, but text extracted from the source of the article itself. Despite this, Melroross began incessantly to obtein the permanent page protection and expelled me indefinitely on the grounds that "I am against the Portuguese people." The moderators have warned Melroross several times that no I am not acting in a vandalism way and that the page cannot be blocked because there are no reasons for that and they have urged him to dialogue with me in the thread that I opened in Talk ([58]). After that, instead of talking he has begun to delete my arguments in the discussion thread and change the title of the thread. ([59], [60], [61], [62]). A moderator warned him to stop deleting messages and altering the title ([63], [64]), and yet Melroross continued to erase my arguments, so as to avoid dialogue ([65]). All of this using an uncivic and accusative language, and sometimes even xenophobic and racist. ([66], [67] ). His attitude, his language and his disruptive editions can also be seen in the Talk thread itself ("Edit war").([68])

    It can be seen that he doesnt want to dialogue but simply impose his norm. I wish you could review the case and consider the appropriated measure. NormanGear (talk • contribs) 17:33, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Removing threaded discussion from talk pages (without an edit summary, even) is disruptive. I have left the user warning against doing so again. El_C 17:47, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Thank you very much El_C.

    I am trying to remove an invented phrase from the article (does not match with its source) and change it to a phrase taken from the source itself. But he automatically deletes my editions and refuses to dialogue a consensus in Talk.

    NormanGear (talk • contribs) 17:56, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    In the first sentence of this complaint, I have replaced NormanGear's *mobile* diff to his edit of Portuguese people with a regular diff to the same change. EdJohnston (talk) 17:40, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Competency issue with CheatCodes4ever

    I have a significant concern that User:CheatCodes4ever is not competent and should be blocked. This user has been around for two years - originally under a different username, which they abandoned because they "...had all sorts of troubles with it". They have been editing as CheatCodes4ever since October. Their talk page is a sea of warnings, deletion notices and attempts by a variety of editors to guide and help them. They continually create articles about clearly non-notable subjects, without proper sourcing. A few examples: Draft:Drake(Bart Baker song), Draft:Tom Thum, Theme music from Peppa Pig, Draft:So Fresh: The Hits of Summer 2017 + The Best of 2016, Bing Bong Christmas, Draft:Jessie Paege and the genuinely ridiculous Peppa Pig (British singer and rapper) (deleted). There are dozens more, many already deleted.

    Huge amounts of time and effort have been put into trying to help this editor understand the key concepts of notability and reliable sources, by many editors. Yet they have failed to grasp even the basics of these core policies, as evidenced by the recently-created Angela (character). This article is currently at AfD and their comment at the discussion is illuminating, given the problematic sourcing and lack of notability of the subject: [69]. After two years of heavy editing, and repeated coaching by dozens of experienced editors it is reasonable to expect that CheatCodes4ever would understand these concepts; clearly they do not.

    The energy sucked up in dealing with this user is an unnecessary distraction for many editors, and the damage they continue to cause to Wikipedia is significant. As @Robvanvee: noted two days ago "We are going to end up at ANI very soon at this rate. Your aversion to sourcing is highly disruptive". I'd like to call out the very significant work Robvanvee has done to try to help CheatCodes4ever, without success. Almost certainly this is a younger user, given the subject matter involved, but enormous reservoirs of WP:AGF have been drained. I don't think this user is competent enough to continue editing. Thanks, The Mirror Cracked (talk) 17:45, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    In this diff, CheatCodes4ever says the previous account was Money12122 (talk · contribs). NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:01, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, that's the previous account (CheatCodes4ever also edited Money12122's talk page: [70] and there is meaningful editing overlap between them). I had avoided naming the previous account here to avoid any possibility of outing them, in an overabundance of caution. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 19:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Weak support Regrettably, I have to agree with Mirror here. I had actually contemplated reporting CheatCodes here for competency earlier this month after running across some of their drafts. While they seem to be trying, they are just not getting it, despite many folks attempts to explain how Wikipedia works. However, the recent thread on their talk, User talk:CheatCodes4ever#I'm retiring gives me slight pause. If they are retiring, perhaps a block is unnecessary. Or, if they are willing to step away from drafts and just work on articles, they may be able to learn the ropes. Drafts are a very difficult place for folks to edit, and many people who are bad at drafts do perfectly well at editing in other places. Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 19:41, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks, CaptainEek. I too had seen their stated intention to retire, and like you I thought that could be the best outcome. Unfortunately, they decided the rescind their retirement on the same day: (note the edit summary) and continued on editing. They have been asked multiple times to stop creating Drafts, and like almost all the other advice they've received, they haven't been able to take that on board. The Mirror Cracked (talk) 20:08, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Endorse block. I ran across this editor after their creation of Peppa Pig (British singer and rapper), which also led to finding this ridiculous edit. Despite other editors' efforts, this appears to be a WP:CIR issue. The article Angela (character) and draft Draft:Jessie Paege are indicative of the typical non-viable content created by this editor. Despite other editors' efforts to educate this user on policies and guidelines, this seems like a time sink, and allowing them to continue to edit seems like a net negative to the project. Even if a block is not the ultimate result of this report, preventing this editor from creating content in the Article and Draft namespaces would be the minimum sanction that is appropriate here. --Kinu t/c 20:49, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Hello, it’s CheatCodes4ever. I would like to have a fresh start and stop making articles that are rejected. I also will not edit Wikipedia without sourcing what I write. I will not make any more articles till I have figured out how to make one for something notable. CheatCodes4ever (talk) 21:24, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    No – no more new accounts. That would be evading scrutiny. Just stick to this account. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 21:32, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Endorse block and be clear that the block applies to the person, not the account. That's always the case, but I'm concerned, given the above comments about a clean start, that this user won't understand that. --Yamla (talk) 13:11, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Endorse block As someone who has spent much time trying to help this person, it is very clear to me that they are obsessed with creating new articles (in this case, for want of a better word, as 5-worded poorly sourced stubs hardly constitute articles), perhaps hat collecting and are not interested in learning in any way despite the attempts of several of the above editors. As has been mentioned, I too think this editor fails to grasp the gravity of the situation and may possibly believe creating a new account will refresh the issue so that may also need to be addressed. Robvanvee 13:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Monica Sarup

    User:Monica Sarup appears to either be the actress Monica Sarup or a representative on her behalf. They appear to have made a Wikipedia account, as opposed to an article, and I believe this will lead to self promotion or conflict of interest issues. Rusted AutoParts 19:47, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Welcomed, notified about the discussion, warned about the conflict of interest. WP:REALNAME may apply. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:43, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Gregeroszlar

    User:Gregeroszlar is using Wikipedia strictly as a means of self-promotion despite repeated warnings. After posting the same draft three times, he was hit with a weeklong ban. He then proceeded to post the same content on his talk page while throwing in an insult for good measure. A permanent ban is perhaps now in order as he has made it clear he has no intent of constructively contributing to the encyclopedia. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 19:45, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    "Most likely I am going to carry on to write a normal article about myself" seems like a statement of intent to continue disruption, so it seems reasonable to extend the block to an indefinite one. I have done so. --Kinu t/c 19:55, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Legal threat

    lblocked. El_C 21:22, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    As I'm involved I can't deal with it. See User talk:Joegelman#Important Notice. Doug Weller talk 21:10, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    User:Mclarenfan17

    The mentioned user keeps changing the outlook of 2020 World Rally Championship#Entries to his own liking. This is going on for atleast one month. We've had a system for every previous season article. Most of all, we had a discussion, where nobody supported him (all participants were against this new format), but Mclarenfan17 still editwars to keep his own preferred version. I'm making this report, because I can not see the good faith in these edits. Examples of the edits (just enough not to break 3RR): [71] [72] [73] + 3 during the last 24h [74] [75] [76]. So is a consensus something to respect or not? Pelmeen10 (talk) 23:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment: I don't deny that a consensus was formed. However, in the time since that consensus was formed, new details have come to light and the implementation of that consensus contradicts the sources in the article. I will try to keep this as simple as possible:
    At the time the consensus was formed, Hyundai and Toyota had announced their driver line-ups:
    • Hyundai had two full-time entries (for Tanak/Jarveoja and Neuville/Gilsoul) and a third entry shared between two crews (Sordo/del Barrio and Loeb/Elena).
    • Toyota had three full-time entries (for Ogier/Ingrassia, Evans/Martin and Rovanpera/Hulttunen).
    However, after that consensus was formed, Toyota went on to announce that they would enter two additional cars during the year, one for Jari-Matti Latvala and one for Takamoto Katsuta. This is supported in the article by this source (currently source #20 in the article). Crucially, the article makes it clear that Toyota have not decided how to structure their team:
    If [Jari-Matti] Latvala secured a five-round deal it could reignite enthusiasm for Toyota to create a 'B team'. Latvala could potentially run alongside Toyota protege Takamoto Katsuta, who will start all eight European WRC rounds and Rally Japan. Sources in Toyota confirmed a second team was under consideration for 2020. The original idea was for [Kalle] Rovanpera and Katsuta to drive for the second team so the two youngsters could learn out of the spotlight. Registering and running a second, point-scoring manufacturer team could be beneficial for Toyota's ambitions of a second makes' title in three years. Latvala said he is ready to help [team principal Tommi] Makinen and Toyota.
    "Like I said, I want to drive next year. Maybe it could make sense to join [Katsuta] in a second team and try to score some points," Latvala said.
    And this is where the issue stems from. The consensus in the article is to organise the entry table by grouping the entrants together, bringing it in line with the style of table used in previous years. This style uses two tables, one for entries that can score manufacturer points, and one for entries that cannot. By organising the 2020 entries so that they centred on the team, the article implies that the team structure has been set, which contradicts the sources. I have tried to point this out in edit summaries and on the article talk page, but the only response that I have gotten from Pelmeen10 has been the claim that I am deliberately going against the consensus because I don't like it. Furthermore, after I posted an explanation for why a different format was needed, this is what he responded with:
    You comments are WP:IDONTLIKEIT. You don't have any kind of consensus here. The unannounced car numbers just can't be shown as the most important thing, which the sorting is based on. Like we discussed, there are no sources to back all these numbers. Loeb btw is now associated with number 9.
    I have tried to point out that the table format implies something that contradicts the sources and he instead talks about "unannounced car numbers", which leads me to believe that he has not read a) any of my comments or b) the sources in the article and has instead rushed to revert my changes to the article, assuming that I did it because of previous opposition to the table format.
    Pelmeen10 opened his post with a question: is a consensus something to respect or not? I would like to answer that: yes, a consensus is something to be respected—but at the same time, a consensus does not give editors a licence to ignore, dismiss or misrepresent a reliable and verifiable source. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 00:03, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    EDIT: I have since realised that when Pelmeen10 mentions "unannounced car numbers", he is referreding a a discussion at WT:MOTOR in which he and another editor made a specific claim (that because the title of the regulations refers to "seasonal numbers", drivers must reapply for their numbers every year, and so all of the numbers in the 2020 article are unsourced), but refused to provide any sources to support this when asked for them. In the time since posting this ANI report, Pelmeen10 has repeated the claim (by referring me to that discussion) to justify enforcing the consensus. My response has been to provide multiple sources debunking his theory. If he is trying to claim that the consensus was based on that discussion at WT:MOTOR, then I would argue that there was never a consensus to begin with because it was based on original research (only the title refers to "seasonal numbers"; there is nothing in the actual regulations to support his claim) and because he refused to provide reliable and verifiable sources despite being asked multiple times, instead insisting that the burden rested with people who disagreed with him. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 01:54, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    This noticeboard does not adjudicate content disputes; yet, so far, the discussion is about content details. Please focus future comments on "urgent incidents" or "chronic, intractable behavioral problems". Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:28, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment @Cullen328: I am aware of what ANI is for and I am not trying to use it to resolve a content dispute. I simply feel that Pelmeen10 is misrepresenting things. He claims that I am wilfully ignoring a consensus because of personal preference, but I am not. I simply felt the need to provide some contextual detail because a) I cannot assume any admin reading this is familiar with the subject, b) the reasons for my decisiom to change the format back are not immediately obvious when reading the article, and c) I feel that Pelmeen10 has a habit of not reading articles, sources and policies thoroughly and I wanted to put something here to refer back during any discussion.
    What would you suggest I do otherwise? Say "yes, I ignored the consensus"? Because I did. Not out of personal preference as Pelmeen10 claims, but out of necessity. When I changed the format of the table back, I tried to keep a format that at least resembled the consensus, but was unable to do so. I posted this message to the article talk page (dated 29 November), addressed Pelmeen10 directly (and later edited that message) that same day when he reverted it. There was little activity on the talk page (and none directly related to the issue) until 26 December when I again explained to Pelmeen10 why I felt that I had to make the change. With no opposition to the change for a month (and the expectation that the original consensus would be applied once a more-comprehensive source becomes available), I felt that WP:EDITCONSENSUS applied as a temporary solution. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 05:36, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Mclarenfan17, you openly admit that you are ignoring consensus even though Wikipedia:Consensus is policy, and you are claiming that your own personal perception of "necessity" overrides policy. I am unpersuaded. Can you please explain yourself more clearly? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    @Cullen328: in the time between the consensus being formed and this ANI being opened, more information about the 2020 World Championship has been made public. I felt that this source published on 29 November (and currently in the article as source #20) changed things and would have affected the consensus discussion had it been available at the time (for the record, the consensus was still being discussed as recently as 28 November).

    The consensus at WP:WRC is that entry tables should be structured in such a way that all crews competing for one team should be grouped together (for example, in the 2019 article). This is common across all motorsport-related articles. However, that consensus was formed before 29 November. On 29 November, Toyota announced that they would enter two additional cars during the 2020 season. The content of that source made it clear that they had not yet decided on the structure of the team. Would it be one big team of five cars? Or two separate teams? And if so, how would the cars be split between them?

    When I saw this, I realised that there would be a problem with the consensus. It meant that the entry table grouped all five Toyota entries together as if they were one team, which contradicted what the source said. This source—Autosport—is one of the most widely-used sources across motorsport articles because it is extremely reliable. Furthermore, Hyundai had already announced how their team would be structured, which meant I felt the article further contradicted the source because it implied Toyota had finalised their structure, which they had not.

    When I made the changes to the table, I tried as best I could to respect the consensus while also reflecting the content of the 29 November source, but I simply could not make it work. I also knew that within six weeks an ironclad source—the entry list for the first round—would be published, resolving the issue altogether because it would make clear who was competing for which team. I felt that I had to choose between a consensus which inadvertently contradicted sources (which had not been available at the time) or overlooking the consensus in favour of a very reliable and verifiable source with the expectation that the consensus would be applied once a source would be published within six weeks. Everything that I did here was in good faith. It was not, as Pelmeen10 contends, because I didn't like the consensus, but because of information published after the consensus was formed. Had the information published on 29 November been available when the consensus was formed, it would have been factored into the consensus discussion in which case a) the consensus would not have been formed as it was, or b) editors would have agreed to wait until the structure of Toyota's team was announced before we applied the table format. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 06:20, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Mclarenfan17, you say the you understand that this noticeboard does not judge content disputes and yet you continue to to argue here at ANI in favor of your preferred content. Let me be clear: no uninvolved editor here at ANI cares about your content disputes. Go pursue Dispute resolution which might include a Request for comment. In brief, if the facts underlying a consensus have changed, then engage with other editors interested in the article to build a new consensus. Be persuasive. Forcefully claiming the right to impose your preferred changes is wrong, just plain wrong. Please do not go there. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 07:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Cullen328: I'm not sure what you want me to say here. You asked me to explain my actions, and I have tried to do just that with a sufficient level of detail that you understand my thinking here, but you just reply "ANI isn't for content disputes". I'm not claiming that I have some right to ignore a consensus. I'm saying when I was put in a position where I had to choose between a consensus and a reliable source, I chose the reliable source when satisfying both the consensus and the source proved impossible. When I posted this to the article talk page, nobody came along and made an alternative suggestion that resolved the dilemma. I had every expectation and every intention that the agreed-upon format would eventually be applied and everything I did was done in good faith. This has nothing to do with a "preferred version" of the article.
    What would you do in my position? You can observe a consensus that is largely cosmetic, but contradicts reliable sources that you did not have access to when that consensus was made; or you can overlook the consensus for the time being to make sure the article accurately reflects its sources with a view to reintroducing the consensus as soon as it is possible to do so. You cannot satisfy both at once, and it seems that my biggest mistake was that I made the wrong choice. I made it because I cannot see anything in WP:CONSENSUS that says editor are allowed to form a consensus that ignores WP:RELIABLE. If I'm missing it, please point it out to me. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 08:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Mclarenfan17, the correct course of action here would have been to first boldly attempt to edit the article, then go to the talk page to hash it out. You should not attempt to reinstate your edits again until the discussion has been resolved. If you think that other editors on the article are ignoring your arguments, you can take it to WP:DRN or convene an WP:RFC. signed, Rosguill talk 08:54, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Rosguill: I tried to do exactly that. This is the edit I made to the article on 29 November, and this is the explanation I posted to the talk page five minutes later. The only person who responded (and not on the talk page, my talk page or at any relevant WikiProject) was an editor with a habit of reverting things on sight and not reading articles and sources, including articles he is reverting. Case in point, this edit where he removed reliably-sourced content (Takamoto Katsuta's entry) because he didn't check. I've been bold, I've posted an explanation for why I felt the changes were necessary, shown a willingness to work with others on it and nothing has come of it until the past 24 hours (there were a few other edits in the past week, but largely unrelated to the issue and were adding unsourced content). Mclarenfan17 (talk) 09:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Mclarenfan17, taking it to the talk page in November was the correct decision. If other editors don't respond to you there, the next step is to convene an RfC or start a thread here, depending on the exact nature of the issue. signed, Rosguill talk 09:17, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Rosguill, other editors in rallying articles now mostly leave one or couple of comments (or are not even gonna comment anymore), because Mclarenfan17 can keep up the discussion endlessly (weeks, months) with the same arguements, which will never lead to anything. Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:08, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    So can I revert to the wikitable format we have a consensus of? The one we've used for years. Because no Rfc or DRN has started (which I'm pretty sure is not necessary, because all active editors in this subject have already given their thoughts. Plus, Mclarenfan17 claims his version is just temporary. Is it now clear that Mclarenfan17 shouldn't revert me again? Though, I don't want to be part of an edit war. Pelmeen10 (talk) 17:29, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment: I have no objection to the consensus being applied, but would suggest that its implementation needs to accurately reflect the sources in the article. In other words, it cannot group the five Toyota entries together as though they are one team. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 18:52, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Another violation: Mclarenfan17 did not even respect a consensus after the DRN/Rfc is finished: here is one where uninvolved editor summed up the discussion with "it appears that there is a small consensus favouring the removal of the third row" - but just 3 days later (24 Nov 2019) Mclarenfan17 reverts it claiming "The "consensus" was so small that no-one did anything with it for TEN WEEKS and it's undermined by one editor's agenda". So the behaviour is repeating over and over again... Pelmeen10 (talk) 18:03, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment: the "consensus" in question was formed by an editor who has engaged in a sustained campaign of harrassment (particularly wikihounding) against me. It was very weak to begin with me and clearly designed to frustrate my editing practice rather than benefit the article. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 18:52, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    No, that user (Tvx1) has respect among other rallying editors (including me). But it looks to me that you try to undermine his comments by getting personal (attacking and insulting). You have also attacked other editors, both in comments and edit summaries. If needed, I can bring examples. Pelmeen10 (talk) 19:03, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    That user's edit history shows that his only contributions to rallying articles are to join in discussions on the current season's talk page and oppose me in discussions. He has never actually contributed anything to a rallying article. It stands out because his edit history shows a handful of topics that he likes to edit articles about, and that he contributes to multiple articles and talk page discussions within those topics—but not rallying, where he only ever contributes to one talk page at a time. It's really none of your business and a matter for a separate ANI. Mclarenfan17 (talk) 19:44, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User Lightningstrikers

    Lightningstrikers (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) Today, a "newcomer" to WP by the name of Lightningstrikers, for his/her very first edits, swiftly reversed text six times in a matter of minutes in the occupational stress entry. Lightningstrikers did not justify the reversals. The edits, to say the least, were disruptive. Even the name Lightningstrikers suggests someone who is out swiftly make disruptive edits. I am concerned that he/she ‎is acting like someone who previously hassled me and was ultimately banned from WP after operating under the a number of names Mrm7171, Psych999, Mattbrown69, and 121.91.164.65. Iss246 (talk) 04:36, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Deleted because it was un-sourced. Lightningstrikers (talk) 11:01, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    user:Lightningstrikers is using the same tactics as Mrm7171. That is a phony justification on two grounds. First, every editorial change he/she made this morning was unsourced. Second, the deletion of a sentence in the first paragraph he/she made today, was justified on the basis that the sentence was unsourced. However, there was an internal link in that sentence to the entry that justifies the sentence.
    I add that the typical way to handle unsourced text is to mark the text as unsourced as a courtesy to the WP editor who wrote the text. And leave the marker there for a few weeks, to prompt the editor to add a source, which is what I did when I came across unsourced text in the occupational stress entry. Only after a few weeks with no response to the marker did I delete the unsourced text.
    Finally, user:Lightningstrikers was operating in a manner that parallels the manner in which the banned Mrm7171 operated. Mrm7171 kept working against the occupational health psychology entry day after day. Lightningstrikers operated that way on the occupational stress entry by striking references to occupational health psychology in addition to other disruptive edits. Iss246 (talk) 15:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    User:Rubyng2004

    BLOCKED
    for repeated copyright infringement — JJMC89 (T·C) 09:24, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Rubyng2004 is repeatedly violating copyright infringement in creating new articles, a whopping ten of which have been deleted as a result. Their latest offense is Sandy Feldstein, during which s/he removed the speedy deletion nomination. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 08:46, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

    Editor created hoax article and did not explain or defend it

    About a week ago i nominated Battle of Turkmen Sahra for deletion, since i suspected it to be a hoax. I asked the creator of the article, User:Amirhosein Izadi, to either provide sources to prove it was real or otherwise explain how or why the fake article was created. Since he failed to do either, the article was deleted as a hoax. This editor also added information that was unsupported by the given sources in his translation of the Farsi Wikipedia article on the Battle of Rasht. I cleaned it up to better reflect the original Farsi article. This editor doesn't seem to have stopped, his most recent article, Rasa Salim Tehrani, has a source with 0 google hits when in quotes (Persian poets in the court of the Mughal Empire). Since this editor has repeatedly added hoaxes to Wikipedia and doesn't defend or explain them, i believe it may be necessary to block him to prevent him from creating further hoaxes. Koopinator (talk) 12:11, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    According to the article Rasa Salim Tehrani, Rasa was the son of Mohammad Qoli Salim Tehrani. That article was created, as a translation from Persian WP, by User:Amirhosein Izadi on 24 December 2019. It contains more information than the original article, supported by completely unverifiable citations: authors in Latin script and titles in English of works which, if they exist, were surely published in Persian. One of those pieces of information is the name of his son, Rasa, who is unnamed in the Persian article. According to the English article, "In 1633, in honor of Shah Jahan and the birth of his son, Rasa, Tehrani Mathnawi wrote al-qada' wa'l-qadar, which is Tehrani greatest and most important work". It is perhaps surprising that the Persian article does not mention any such work; nor is it in Persian Wikisource (link in the Persian article), which only contains one short lyric. The dedication "in honor of Shah Jahan and the birth of his [own] son" strikes me as, at the very least, unusual.
    There may be no connection, but the Persian article on Mohammad Qoli Salim Tehrani was created by a user named Rafic.Mufid (in Latin script); who has since been blocked as a WP:SOCK, see [77]; who is also known in English WP, see Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Chyah.
    If this is vandalism, it is of an extremely dangerous kind. Narky Blert (talk) 16:11, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Edits by Spanish user sockpuppet ‘NormanGear’

    Dear Administors,


    This user who started editing without signing and subsequently started using this (possibly others too) user profile user:NormanGear is a serial vandal and manipulator whose SOLE contributions on Wikipedia this far have been obsessive attempts to somehow make the Portuguese people more Jew/Berber than what they really are. Conversely, this very same user as I suspected, is trying to delete and like other Spanish/Hispanic users, minimise or delete altogether any of of the Spaniards’ Arab/Jewish ancestry. The edits speak by themselves on both the pages below. This user has now even resorted to play the victim card, when their only actions have been to disrupt, manipulate, vandalise and offend. I trust this user/issue will be resolved and as per my repeated requests, the Portuguese people page is made permanently semi-protected from this kind of repeated nefariousness:

    Same user with several (possibly more) aliases 

    IP 46.222.138.139,
IP 84.78.247.214

    and now signing as user:NormanGear.

    This sockpuppet was created only last week with the sole purpose of malicious editing against this page: 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_people

    and conversely, try and rid the equivalent Spanish people/Spaniards of exactly the same contents which are totally relevant to Spain, more than to Portugal

    See recent history where it shows their activity:

    Extended content.

    version, m = minor edit, → = section edit, ← = automatic edit summary (newest | oldest) View (newer 50 | older 50) (20 | 50 | 100 | 250 | 500)

    curprev 16:22, 27 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,256 bytes +1‎ Disambiguation undo curprev 16:21, 27 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,255 bytes -655‎ Removed sockpuppet ‘NormanGear’s malicious edit once again. Their sole contribution is Mooris/Jewish genetics attempt to Portuguese people only. Going to add ALL sources to Spanish people as Iberia is mainly Spain and the Spanish page desperately tries to hide the Moors and Jews. undo curprev 09:31, 27 December 2019‎ Rodw talk contribs‎ m 88,910 bytes +8‎ Disambiguating links to Berber (link changed to Berbers) using DisamAssist. undothank curprev 18:11, 26 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,902 bytes -1‎ undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 18:10, 26 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,903 bytes +35‎ undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 18:08, 26 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,868 bytes +1‎ undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 18:07, 26 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,867 bytes +25‎ Deleted phrase not supported by the source. Added literal phrase from the source itself. undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 07:44, 23 December 2019‎ PohranicniStraze talk contribs‎ m 88,842 bytes 0‎ sp undothank curprev 13:40, 22 December 2019‎ DumbBOT talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes -15‎ removing a protection template from a non-protected page (info) undo curprev 16:27, 21 December 2019‎ EncMstr talk contribs‎ 88,857 bytes +15‎ + undothank curprev 16:24, 21 December 2019‎ EncMstr talk contribs‎ m 88,842 bytes 0‎ Protected "Portuguese people": Edit warring / content dispute ([Edit=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (expires 04:24, 22 December 2019 (UTC)) [Move=Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access] (expires 04:24, 22 December 2019 (UTC))) undothank curprev 16:10, 21 December 2019‎ KylieTastic talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes -244‎ Reverted 5 edits by Melroross: Not valid - the correct place would be Wikipedia:Requests for page protection but its not valdalism it looks more like a difference of opinion (TW) undothank Tag: Undo curprev 15:59, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 89,086 bytes -8‎ Protection undo curprev 15:58, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 89,094 bytes +8‎ Protection undo curprev 15:58, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 89,086 bytes -8‎ undo curprev 15:57, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 89,094 bytes -30‎ undo curprev 15:56, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 89,124 bytes +282‎ Semi-protecting undo curprev 15:56, 21 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes +1‎ undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 15:55, 21 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,841 bytes -75‎ I reverse the issue until I discuss the problem. I have started a thread in Talk. undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 15:35, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,916 bytes +74‎ Undid revision 931835326 by NormanGear (talk) Requested permanent Block for all IP addresses used so far. Several profiles signed and unsigned by one same individual with the sole purpose of Vandalism undo Tag: Undo curprev 15:34, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes -74‎ Undid revision 931835326 by NormanGear (talk) Requested permanent Block for all IP addresses used so far. Several profiles signed and unsigned by one same individual with the sole purpose of Vandalism undo Tag: Undo curprev 15:29, 21 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,916 bytes +74‎ The fact there are other articles where this information is specified does not give the right to delete it in this article. And the previous sentence is not supported by the source attached. undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 15:20, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes -74‎ Undid revision 931834084 by NormanGear (talk) this is already in the Genetics of the Iberian Peninsula. What is the obsession with Jews and Moors? undo Tag: Undo curprev 15:17, 21 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 88,916 bytes +74‎ Extracted faithful fragments from the source: "Admixture analysis based on binary and Y-STR haplotypes indicates a high mean proportion of ancestry from North African (10.6%) and Sephardic Jewish (19.8%) sources." "The most striking division in North African ancestry proportions is between the western half of the peninsula, where the proportion is relatively high, to the eastern half, where it is relatively low" undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Visual edit curprev 14:21, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes 0‎ Undid revision 931827447 by 84.78.247.214 (talk) same Vandalism edits undo Tag: Undo curprev 14:20, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes -968‎ Undid revision 931827335 by 84.78.247.214 (talk) Undid repeated MALICIOUS edits form unidentified Hispanic IP address based in Alarcon undo Tag: Undo curprev 14:08, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,810 bytes 0‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 14:07, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,810 bytes +968‎ Recovered, the sources are scientific studies, not opinions. The source itself used in this article and the two new ones added by me state that Jewish and North African genetics are quite significant. And that is concentrated in the western half of the Peninsula. undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 13:39, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,842 bytes -968‎ Undid biased, unsigned edit. Al Andalus genetic mark already has a sub section on this page undo curprev 09:32, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,810 bytes -1‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 09:27, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,811 bytes +1‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 09:26, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,810 bytes -16‎ Third source: "The most striking division in North African ancestry proportions is between the western half of the peninsula, where the proportion is relatively high, to the eastern half, where it is relatively low" undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 09:11, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,826 bytes -24‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 09:07, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,850 bytes -2‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 09:06, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 89,852 bytes +1,010‎ The source used states that there is 19.8% of Jewish admixture and 10% North Africa. That is not limited or little. I have added more sources. undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 08:48, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 88,842 bytes 0‎ undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 08:14, 21 December 2019‎ 84.78.247.214 talk‎ 88,842 bytes -8‎ Not lead. Voyages of Christopher Columbus was the major event in the Age of Discovery undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 21:04, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,850 bytes +163‎ More cited sources undo curprev 20:57, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,687 bytes +190‎ Sourced quote, previously deleted by unsigned Spanish IP address undo curprev 20:51, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,497 bytes +246‎ Undid revision 931670991 by 46.222.138.139 (talk) undo Tag: Undo curprev 17:05, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,251 bytes +121‎ Religious affiliation data source undo curprev 16:55, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,130 bytes 0‎ Comma undo curprev 16:54, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 88,130 bytes +159‎ Hasdingi sourced content undo curprev 16:45, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 87,971 bytes +98‎ More on Suebians undo curprev 16:40, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 87,873 bytes +87‎ Sourced content undo curprev 16:32, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 87,786 bytes +193‎ Pre Celt sourced undo curprev 16:23, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 87,593 bytes +85‎ Goths sourced quote undo curprev 16:23, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 87,508 bytes +70‎ Goths sourced quote undo curprev 16:01, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 87,438 bytes +236‎ Sourced content added undo curprev 15:28, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,908 bytes +76‎ Sourced content undo curprev 15:18, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,832 bytes +53‎ Sourced content added undo curprev 15:13, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,779 bytes +316‎ Added sourced quotes undo curprev 15:10, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,463 bytes +62‎ Sourced content undo curprev 15:08, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,401 bytes -62‎ Sourced quote undo curprev 15:08, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,463 bytes +62‎ Sourced undo curprev 15:04, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,401 bytes -62‎ Sourced quote after malicious reversal by anonymous Spanish user IP address 46.222.138.139 undo curprev 15:04, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,463 bytes +62‎ Sourced quote after malicious reversal by anonymous Spanish user IP address 46.222.138.139 undo curprev 14:50, 20 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 86,401 bytes +558‎ Undid revision 931670638 by 46.222.138.139 (talk) undo Tag: Undo curprev 12:01, 20 December 2019‎ 46.222.138.139 talk‎ 85,843 bytes -246‎ There were other powers that lead the Age of Discovery. Removed parts without contrast undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 11:57, 20 December 2019‎ 46.222.138.139 talk‎ 86,089 bytes -558‎ Unsourced undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 12:22, 17 December 2019‎ Trappist the monk talk contribs‎ m 86,647 bytes +135‎ →‎Pre-Roman groups: cite repair; undothank curprev 12:16, 17 December 2019‎ Trappist the monk talk contribs‎ m 86,512 bytes +5‎ →‎Portuguese ancestry in the Brazilian population: cite repair; undothank curprev 04:16, 17 December 2019‎ Boghog talk contribs‎ 86,507 bytes -1,226‎ consistent citation formatting undothank curprev 04:14, 17 December 2019‎ Boghog talk contribs‎ 87,733 bytes +649‎ Alter: title, pmc, url, template type. Add: isbn, bibcode, title. Removed URL that duplicated unique identifier. Converted bare reference to cite template. Removed parameters. | You can use this tool yourself. Report bugs here. | via #UCB_Gadget undothank

    (newest | oldest) View (newer 50 | older 50) (20 | 50 | 100 | 250 | 500)

    Now see what they did in the Spanish people/Spaniards page, he deleted all my edits which are absolutely valid, historical, academic and duly cited from reputed sources. Basically, since I noticed this malicious vandalism, they’ve subsequently opted for the ‘softy soft’ approach and try to make me out as the one who is bias. Here are their latest edits where they deleted my contributions on the Spanish page... basically trying to ‘dump’ racially motivated content in the Portuguese people page and get rid of anything remotely similar in the Spanish equivalent... why you would do that is beyond my comprehension. And this is what they did in their page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaniards


    curprev 16:47, 27 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 66,350 bytes +432‎ Sourced content added undo curprev 16:28, 27 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 65,918 bytes +20‎ Undid revision 932543802 by NormanGear (talk) This sockpuppet user is adding Moors/Jews to Portuguese people page and trying to delete it from the Spanish page. Reported isser for permanent block. Malicious vandalism. undo Tag: Undo curprev 18:17, 26 December 2019‎ NormanGear talk contribs‎ 65,898 bytes -20‎ Reverted to the previous edition. undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit curprev 16:09, 23 December 2019‎ Carlstak talk contribs‎ 65,918 bytes -13‎ ce undothank curprev 10:11, 23 December 2019‎ Frem3 talk contribs‎ 65,931 bytes +1‎ undothank Tags: Mobile edit Mobile app edit Android app edit curprev 16:28, 21 December 2019‎ Melroross talk contribs‎ 65,930 bytes -10‎ Biased language trying to minimise over 800 years of Islamic presence in Spain undo curprev 03:41, 19 December 2019‎ BrugesFR talk contribs‎ 65,940 bytes +8‎ →‎See also undothank curprev 17:15, 17 December 2019‎ TheseusHeLl talk contribs‎ 65,932 bytes -9‎ undothank Tag: Visual edit curprev 17:13, 17 December 2019‎ TheseusHeLl talk contribs‎ 65,941 bytes -8‎ undothank Tag: Visual edit curprev 17:09, 17 December 2019‎ TheseusHeLl talk contribs‎ 65,949 bytes -1,560‎ WP:SYNTHESIS undothank Tag: Visual edit curprev 17:02, 17 December 2019‎ TheseusHeLl talk contribs‎ 67,509 bytes -10‎ removed misrepresentation of sources by the blocked socks of JamesOredan undothank Tag: Visual edit curprev 19:21, 16 December 2019‎ Pelirojopajaro talk contribs‎ 67,519 bytes 0‎ US number was duplicated undothank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor

    So it’s basically like ‘Wanting to have the cake and eat it’. Not acceptable.Melroross (talk) 17:38, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    I think the next step is to block User:Melroross for personal attacks. Whatever the merits of the change may be, calling NormanGear a 'serial vandal and manipulator' and referring to his 'malicious edits' is not acceptable. Also the complaint by Melroross that NormanGear is socking appears to be questionable. I have modified the title of this thread to remove some attacks. EdJohnston (talk) 17:49, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    (after edit conflict) Note that this concerns the same issue as the section Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User Melroross above. The thing that I don't get is why anyone thinks that saying that a group of people has Berber and Jewish ancestry is an insult. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:54, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Blocked 72 hours. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:18, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • note that I did advise Melrose here that it wasn't vandalism and "MALICIOUS edits" and to address the content not the editor. Also that moving from an IP to an account was not Sock puppetry and NormanGear had told me here that they would only edit from the account. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 19:18, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    (edit conflict)

    (talk page stalker) In my opinion, from looking at Talk:Portuguese people#Edit war, there seems to be a couple of things happening.. unhelpful rhetoric and verbose comments from User:Melroross and what appears to be a misunderstanding by User:NormanGear, who could ensure that when adding content it is 1) Relevant and applicable to the article and 2) restates content from the source. It seems like NormanGear is clear about restating the source. What seems to be falling short is ensuring that the content is applicable and relevant to the Portuguese people, which is about people of the country of Portugal.
    Perhaps calmness, brevity to the key issue(s) (like in "Just the facts, Ma'am"), and seeking to understand (vs. focusing only on being understood) would help.––CaroleHenson (talk) 19:27, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

    Spacejam2 reported by Elizium23

    Moved from WP:AIV
     – ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:04, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    User:Spacejam2:
    Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=932737837"