Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 17

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July 17[edit]

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on July 17, 2022.

Errant[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 24#Errant

Shagos[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 24#Shagos

Gaynal[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:45, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This should be deleted as a silly (and possibly offensive) redirect which fails WP:NEO. QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

2022 Siege of Chornobaivka[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. signed, Rosguill talk 18:16, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Useless redirect. The article is not about a siege. Super Ψ Dro 18:01, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Multiracial Australians[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:46, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Australia is only mentioned at the target in the context of the Anglo-Burmese diaspora, which seems unhelpful for most readers searching this term. I was hoping to be able to redirect this to Race in Australia, but it looks like we only have Racism in Australia, which is a weaker fit that currently does not really mention multiracial people at all. There's no mention of multiracial people at Demography_of_Australia either, thus, deletion seems like the best option available at this time. signed, Rosguill talk 16:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete to encourage a possible future article creation would seem the best option here. QueenofBithynia (talk) 19:07, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Tajikistani Australians[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 23:46, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Australia not mentioned at the target, delete unless a justification can be provided. The one exception is the Bhutan redirect, where immigration to Australia is mentioned briefly, deep within the article. Not listed here are redirects by the same editor pointing to Asian ethnicity pages that do mention significant populations in Australia in their infoboxes. signed, Rosguill talk 16:13, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete, so pointless as to be misleading. CMD (talk) 07:29, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete to redlink until articles can be made about these minorities. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 22:10, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per both of the above comments. --QueenofBithynia (talk) 15:28, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Wikipedia:TI[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 25#Wikipedia:TI

Template:Onvaccation[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 24#Template:Onvaccation

Robert Andrew Witt[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to Bobby Witt. Jay 15:41, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Despite having sent this title to AfC/R, I later realize that this redirect should be retargeted to Bobby Witt who is often known simply as "Bobby Witt" (without the Sr.) but whose full name is "Robert Andrew Witt". The pre-existing hatnote at the Witt Sr. page can mitigate most residual ambiguity with Bobby Witt Jr.. Thanks, NotReallySoroka (talk) 11:44, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, and I think this could have been done boldly. BD2412 T 19:50, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: per BD2412 (as initial AFC/R reviewer) Happy Editing--IAmChaos 00:03, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Cell tropism[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 25#Cell tropism

Shi Hao[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was no consensus. signed, Rosguill talk 18:13, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is not a clear connection between "Shi Hao" and Posthumous name as far as I can see by Googling. There is Shi Hao (bobsledder) who is a living person. This mixup caused this page to be tagged as an attack page but I'm sending it to RFD in case there is some connection between the page name and the target that has been missed here. This redirect has existed for quite a few years without challenges so perhaps there is something here that we are not seeing. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 18:59, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shi Hao is a living person (bobsledder). There is no reason in either the Shi Hao (bobsledder) article for this redirect. There is also no reason in the Posthumous Name article. Sorry for mispellings and any mistakes in the wiki code. Neurogeek (talk) 18:52, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(This is a duplicate nomination but concerns the same page) Liz Read! Talk! 19:01, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously it's not an attack page for Shi Hao (bobsledder) because the redirect was created in 2002 (wow, 20 years old!), when the bobsledder was just 5 years old. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 21:07, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Shihao (諡號; shì hào) is a Chinese term that means posthumous name and title - [1]. Hzh (talk) 22:42, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Disambiguate It's apparent to me that the primary topic was the Chinese term for posthumous names until the bobsledder became active later on. Since the term stopped being the primary topic, a disambiguation page may be warranted. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 05:04, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This is the transliteration of "谥号", which is given in the infobox at Posthumous name as the Chinese term for the concept. This is probably the primary topic over the bobsledder. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 07:11, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per above although a person that is versed in the Chinese language might want to expand Posthumous_name#China to discuss said them might be the better solution. --Lenticel (talk) 12:35, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Worth noting that this term is already mentioned in the Template:Infobox Chinese at the target. The fact that the template autocollapses the transcriptions sections even when there's only one transcription is rather silly: doing so doesn't save any vertical space at all, but hides the mention of the transcription from readers who try to Ctrl+F to find the mention of their search term and end up with nothing. This problem has come up at multiple RfDs. 61.239.39.90 (talk) 02:19, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and move Shi Hao (bobsledder) to base name Per WP:SMALLDETAILS, Shi hao already redirects to Posthumous name. The (capitalized) proper name is the bobsledder.—Bagumba (talk) 07:25, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 01:06, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One participant has touched upon the fact that the redirect involves capitalization.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 09:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Rocktober[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 25#Rocktober

Yellen[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 25#Yellen

Erwin Buder[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete. ✗plicit 11:33, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This made sense when the target page was about Johannes Erwin Buder, but per Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 June 27 § Johannes Buder it's now a DAB page. Targeting the DAB doesn't make sense because only one of the Johanneses had the middle name Erwin. Germany at the 1912 Summer Olympics § Gymnastics, which the now-DAB pointed to prior to its RfD, could make some sense, if the target were edited to refer to Buder by his full name. Deletion might be the simplest answer though. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 05:24, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Heritage Museum[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to Heritage centre. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 07:31, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heritage Museum is a generic term for a type of museum where the Lok Virsa Museum is a particular museum Dr vulpes (💬 • 📝) 05:12, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Thio Shen Yi[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was procedural close. You don't need to go to RfD to revert a BLAR, and adjudicating such disputes is not within RfD's mandate. Any editor may revert a BLAR, at which point the BLARer or any other user may take the article to AfD if they desire. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 05:31, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Revert to previous revision, then go to AfD if so desired. Incorrect deletion procedure: article was unilaterally changed to an incorrect redirect by PRODding user after it got dePRODed. Redirect intended for "TSMP Law Corporation" but target is "Time Synchronized Mesh Protocol", a communications protocol for wireless devices. — 2406:3003:2077:1E60:C998:20C6:8CCF:5730 (talk) 05:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

List of airports in the Vatican[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to List of airports in Europe#Vatican City. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 07:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to be a joke entry more than a serious redirect. It does not point to a "list" of anything, and not to something that the typical reader would even consider an "airport" at all. I would delete this redirect. BD2412 T 04:48, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: see previous discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of airports in the Vatican. Also, List of airports in Vatican City is a redirect to List of airports in Europe#Vatican City. - Eureka Lott 06:09, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget to List of airports in Europe#Vatican City to match List of airports in Vatican City (maybe mark it as an avoided double redirect of that). "The Vatican" is a common and plausible rendering of the name of this country, and so it's a natural part of the set of "List of airports in <country>" titles. The proposed target gives the information that someone using this title will be looking for while linking to the heliport article for more information about that. Thryduulf (talk) 09:25, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • The List of airports in Europe#Vatican City line specifies: "Vatican City has no airport and is too small to contain one". BD2412 T 17:13, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes it does, which is exactly the most useful possible information for someone using this search term - it lists all the airports in Vatican City and explains why that list has no airports and one heliport (note that category:Heliports is a subcategory of category:Airports by type; The Heliport article begins A heliport is a small airport, so your assertion that it is something the typical reader would even consider an airport at all is rather dubious). The current target does not mention anything about what other air facilities there are the country, and so is significantly less helpful. So the question is "is this a likely search term?" - the consensus at the AfD was that it is, and I've explained above why I believe it is. Thryduulf (talk) 21:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'll grant that the proposed retarget is an improvement over the current nonsensical situation. BD2412 T 23:15, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Mother of Pride[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 24#Mother of Pride

Revolutionary Mexico[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to Mexican Revolution. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris talk! 07:29, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Re-target to Mexican Revolution. The current target is a brief summary of Mexican Revolution as part of the History of Mexico page, which lists Mexican Revolution as the main article on the topic. It seems most sensible to me for the redirect to send users directly to the main article.
I made this change directly, but it has proven controversial (see User_talk:SuperSkaterDude45#Revolutionary_Mexico), so I thought it best to bring it to this forum. Furius (talk) 18:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 03:27, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Roofies[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to Date rape drug with a hatnote to Flunitrazepam. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 23:50, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Although the term "roofie" has been used to refer specifically to Flunitrazepam (a.k.a. Rohypnol), my impression is that it is used more generally to refer to any date rape drug (and sometimes as a verb to refer to the action of drugging someone, e.g., for a drug-facilitated sexual assault). I suggest a retarget to Date rape drug. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:09, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retarget to Date rape drug: But add a hat, bc it really is used to mean the specific drug quite a bit. I don't feel its enough to warrant a DABification though Happy Editing--IAmChaos 01:36, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that roofies (plural) also redirects to Flunitrazepam and whatever is done to roofie should also be done to roofies. --B (talk) 13:57, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Any sourcing or data to show a shift in meaning? I haven't really heard the term used since I was in university years ago, but back then it was definitely a reference to the specific drug, not any date rape drugs in general. I am willing to believe that usage has changed, but as the circles I move in no longer feel the need to discuss roofies, I have no personal evidence of the change in use. Fieari (talk) 05:31, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looking around a bit, there seems to still be a common association with that drug, but not always. People generally don't know exactly which drug was used when they suspect they have been "roofied".
  • Here is a link from the first page of my search results for "roofie", entitled "How To Know If You Were Roofied? 4 Signs & Symptoms of Being Roofied". It defines "roofies" only as "date rape drugs", and does not explicitly mention on that page any particular drug or drugs that may have been involved in such an incident (until you click further into a lab test ordering process to find that the test is for a "Date Rape Testing Panel" and that "This panel includes testing for: Unknown drug scan, Barbiturates, Benzodiazepines, Opiods, Sedatives / Hypnotics, Over-the-Counter Drugs, Muscle Relaxants and Hallucinogens." – no mention of flunitrazepam specifically).
  • Here, entitled "Signs of Being 'Roofied' That Everyone Should Know", is another entry from the first page of my search results for "roofie" that says that "being roofied" is "The act of being drugged without your knowledge or consent [regardless of the particular drug]", and lists various possible drugs that may have been used when someone was "roofied" (one of which is flunitrazepam, but there are various others). It says "Although the term originated as a nickname for the common date rape drug Rohypnol, several drugs are used for this purpose. Here's what you need to know about these drugs ..."
  • Here, entitled "How California women stopped alleged roofie attempt", is the first video link that popped up in that search, with CBS This Morning reporting an "alleged roofie attempt", with no mention of what specific drug was involved (indeed, tests had not yet been done to identify any specific drug in that incident). The fact that they didn't know what drug it was didn't stop the news program from calling this an "alleged roofie attempt".
Flunitrazepam is illegal or not offered on the (legal) market in many countries, so it seems likely that it is not the actual drug used in many instances of people being roofied (which could involve other benzodiazepines, ketamine, etc.), yet this term remains the typical way to refer to a surreptitious drugging of a beverage with a sedative.
—⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:36, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to add the plural form, Roofies, which is also being discussed.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 03:24, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Vietnamese in China[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 24#Vietnamese in China

Owlsley[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was disambiguate. (non-admin closure) feminist (talk) 16:05, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Retarget to Owsley: at Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Redirects and categories#Redirect request: Owlsley, several editors (myself, Binksternet, and 49.198.51.54) discussed CrownKing0wl's request to created Owlsley as a redirect to Florida Atlantic Owls#Traditions. A few hours after I redirected Owlsley to Owsley per discussion and following the IP's suggestions, CrownKing0wl then re-targeted Owlsley to his favoured target (even though he was pinged to our conversation). I propose this breach of consensus be reverted. Thanks. NotReallySoroka (talk) 08:35, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retarget to Owsley as discussed. Binksternet (talk) 12:26, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I redirected it since it is not a misspelling but a play on words of the athletic team’s name (Owls) CrownKing0wl (talk) 14:56, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides, it would be better to redirect this page to the university’s athletic teams page rather than a disambiguation page. CrownKing0wl (talk) 14:59, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget. I suggested the Owsley target because it's more likely to be a typo or a mishearing of an established name (try saying "Owsley" and "Owlsley"; they sound really similar) than it is to be a reference to this amateur sporting mascot. Plus, when there's been an informal discussion at AFC/R, it's not right to override the discussion just 28 minutes after the discussion ends. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 21:03, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget per nom --Lenticel (talk) 00:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep at current target and add a hatnote there to Owsley. It is the only one which uses this spelling. While there does appear to be a consensus at the above-linked discussion to link to the disambiguation page, no actual reason to do so was advanced there. I don't see a compelling reason to not link to the thing that this is the correct spelling for. A7V2 (talk) 02:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay (talk) 10:53, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep at current target. It is not a misspelling but a rather a play on words of the athletic team’s name (Owls). Besides, it would be better to redirect this page to the university’s athletic teams page rather than a disambiguation page. CrownKing0wl (talk) 15:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget or disambiguate. @A7V2: There is also Leland Owlsley (aka Owl (Marvel Comics)), a reasonably notable Marvel Comics villain who has existed for decades before FAU ever had a sports team. There is also a somewhat similarly named Owlseye, Alberta. BD2412 T 19:26, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @BD2412 your ping did not work. Pings only work when the same edit contains a signature.
    I'm not opposed to a disambiguation page which then the two dab pages could mutually "see also" eachother. Or even retarget to Owl (Marvel Comics) and hatnote the mascot (possibly through a redirect like Owlsley (mascot)) and Owsley as it does seem the Marvel character is the primary topic. A7V2 (talk) 06:31, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Retarget to Owsley or to Owl (Marvel Comics)?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 03:22, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would say create a disambiguation page under the name "Owlsley" that would contain two pages:
  • Disambiguate, which would catch both matches along with listing the close calls in the "see also" section. I have drafted one below the redirect for your consideration. -- Tavix (talk) 16:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Disambiguate per Tavix's draft as an ideal solution. Jay 05:41, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Shortlist[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to Short list. Jay 07:01, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this should redirect to short list rather than its current target. The former was its original target, but it was changed in 2018 without discussion. Presumably, the original target is the primary topic, and the article gives "shortlist" as an alternative spelling to the two-word spelling. (For reference, "short list" received 1,000 pageviews in the last thirty days, while "ShortList" received just 221). Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 02:57, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retarget as proposed. I also considered disambiguation as an alternative, but this is going to be the primary topic of the term. BD2412 T 04:49, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget as proposed. Short list (disambiguation) also refers to the two word article as primary topic for the one-word search term. Thryduulf (talk) 10:04, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget per nom --Lenticel (talk) 00:27, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retarget as proposed. I spot-checked the incoming links, and most of them refer to short listing. Some are intended for the magazine, though, so all of the incoming links need to be reviewed. - Eureka Lott 15:23, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
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