Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2020 September 11

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September 11

I have a picture . . .

I am trying to answer a reply to a quetion I asked earlier with the "subject the same as above. I was asked to give the name of the article - and what I hope the picture will show: The name of my article is "Rotea Gilford". It has been submitted for Review several times as I've worked on it, but it is not final yet. The article talks about Rotea Gilford, a much beloved police officer in San Francisco, CA who went from Patrolman to Depputy Mayor for Dianne Feinstein. The picture is of Rotea inside the offices of the SFPD a day or two after learning he had been promoted to be the first black police inspector on the force. It's such a happy moment and you can see how full of pride he is - looking forward to a bright future he could never have imagined at that time. The picture was taken by the News Call Bulletin newspaper, but that newspaper is now defunct (since 1965). I found the picture in their archives with a loose note that "some photos are copyrighted".

I don't know how to reply to the response I got or I would have done that. if there's an easier way, please let me know. Thank you so much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kilitzianf (talk • contribs) 02:10, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Kilitzianf: Sorry, but our hands are tied because we obey the law. By law everything is copyrighted. We cannot permit you to upload a picture unless that picture has a compatible copyright license. We (society as a whole) needs a mechanism to permit the use of material with "orphan copyrights" (those for which the copyright holder cannot reasonably be determined or contacted), but Wikipedia cannot cannot to this. It will require a change in the law. So no, you cannot upload that picture. -Arch dude (talk) 02:34, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Japanese romanization vs Chinese romanization

Recently there's been an editor that's been replacing names dating from Taiwan under Japanese rule that are written in a Chinese romanization to a Japanese romanization. As Japanese kanji was adopted from Chinese characters, both romanizations were used in some point in history using the same characters.

• [1] Yuanshan -> Maruyama, Keelung -> Kīrun
• [2] Chiayi -> Kagi
• [3] Yu Qingfang -> Yo Seihō, Anping -> Anpei

Japanese romanization would definitely not be appropriate when referring to things in the present, but if we're referring to the Japanese era, which would we use? I couldn't really find a guideline, as MOS:ROMAJI and MOS:CHINESE don't really address the other language. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 03:39, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ganbaruby: You can try to open a discussion with that editor. If the two of you reach a consensus, you can edit the two MOS pages to add your conclusion. If you cannot reach consensus, you can open a discussion on the talk page of MOS:ROMAJI and try to attract the notice of interested editors, and/or go to WP:DISPUTE for escalation. My uneducated opinion: Use Chinese romanization in all cases, but use Romanji in addition to Chinese romanization when an article makes it clear that the term was in use by the Japanese during the era of Japanese rule. -Arch dude (talk) 04:22, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Link to Gambling Website

I have noticed some vandalism at Comité_International_Permanent_des_Études_Mycéniennes. Namely, the official website links to a gambling website. Would an editor please assist me with fixing it? Thank you, Wallacegromit1 (talk) 03:58, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

External link has been removed as the original link that it directed to seems to have changed. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:38, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done Thank You! Wallacegromit1 (talk) 08:49, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Waiting for draft review

I submitted a draft article for review last July 2020, but haven't received any feedback yet. How can I check the status of my draft article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JuliaEstrella (talk • contribs) 09:40, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

JuliaEstrella You have not actually submitted the draft for review; you just moved it into Draft space, which does not submit it. I will shortly add the appropriate information to allow you to submit it. Once you do, you will be notified when it is reviewed, though it could take several weeks. 331dot (talk) 09:49, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

OFFICER TRAINING UNIT SCHEYVILLE

 Courtesy link: Officer Training Unit, Scheyville Wikipedia

I graduated from the Officer Training Unit, Scheyville, in 1968, have been a member of the Officer Training Unit Association for over 30 years and since 2009 I have been the Editor of the association's newsletter, The Scheyvillian, and the Memorabilia Officer.

I haven't read the Wikipedia page for OTU Scheyville for sometime, but in reading it tonight, with the experience of the last 11 years as Editor and Memorabilia Officer I felt that I needed to update the page using the knowledge that I have gained in that time. That has been done!

There is one glaring error that I do not know how to solve. The top of the page shows the 'Shoulder Flash' for the "Officer Cadet Training Unit". OCTU was a CMF officer training establishment, not the National Service/Air Cadet OTU. OTU did not have shoulder flashes. If they did they would have used the OTU colours of red and blue and not green and yellow.

How can the shoulder flash, and any reference to it, be removed?? There are numerous photographs on the associations website showing Cadets in Battle Dress not wearing Shoulder Flashes!

Neil Leckie Editor The Scheyvillian Newsletter of The Officer Training Unit Association <phone number removed> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.176.119.4 (talk) 12:23, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, thanks for wanting to help improve Wikipedia. I suggest you read some of the links in the message I'm about to leave on your talk page. Also, because you have a connection to the article subject, I suggest you read about conflicts of interest on Wikipedia. The place to propose changes is on the article's talk page, and if you do have a COI with the article subject, you can use the {{request edit}} to help you make an edit request on the page. PS: I've also removed your phone number from your message, but it will still be present in this page's history. Seagull123 Φ 13:24, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Not any more. I've hidden the revisions containing his phone number. JIP | Talk 20:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

unable to insert picture in "Ancient Maya art"

I was unable to insert this picture in the "Precious stone" etc. section of "Ancient Maya art":

File:Possibly Guatemala, Maya Culture, Early Classic period (A.D. 250–600) - Royal Belt Ornament - Google Art Project.jpg|Jade belt plaque with ruler, Early Classic (Kimbell Art Museum)

Could anyone fix this? Thanks!Retal (talk) 12:25, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy link Ancient Maya art TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:09, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Retal: I just copy/pasted what you typed above into the gallery in that section of the article, and it worked for me. I'm not sure what your problem was. Deor (talk) 14:36, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Profile

Good Morning,

How can I list my profile on Wikipedia for the public so see ?

Thanks Stephen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephen Craig Hills (talk • contribs) 13:25, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Stephen Craig Hills There is not a single "profile" on Wikipedia; Wikipedia has articles. Articles about people must show with significant coverage in independent reliable sources how the person meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable person(there are also more specific criteria for certain fields like politicians and musicians). Writing about yourself is strongly discouraged per the autobiography policy, as Wikipedia is not a place for people to tell the world about themselves. Wikipedia is only interested in what others say about people. 331dot (talk) 13:28, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Linking to sites that use frames

I'm sure this has come up many times, and I apologise for raising it again, but I am unsure how to meet the requirements of WP:V with citations to sites that use frames. For example, the performance archive of the Metropolitan Opera has a wealth of valuable detail, but having found the desired detail by use of the archive's excellent search engine, one has no way of linking directly to it, as there isn't a URL beyond the archive's top-level one. Advice on how to cite in such cases would be most welcome. Tim riley talk 14:24, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Sometimes you can find a URL to the relevant frame contents: for example here is a page about a production of Così fan tutte which I got by looking at the target of a link in a list of search results. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:34, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Andrew. I'll have a go along those lines. But if I can't find such a link to the pages I need do you think a link to the top line of the archive is adequate? Tim riley talk 14:39, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Linking to such a site is problematic anyway. Tim riley, because there is no way of telling whether what you find next week is going to the same as what you find this week. (That is a problem with any source that is primarily a website, of course, but at least with a specific URL it makes sense to cite it with an access date, and it's sometimes possible to get a particular version archived. But citing a search through a database is one level further removed from fixed content. I'm not sure it is helpful to a reader to cite such a source. --ColinFine (talk) 18:40, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, Colin. Point entirely taken, but there is no danger whatever that the Metropolitan Opera's performance archive is going to change its stated facts: the question is how easily readers can verify what we say in WP that the Met says. Tim riley talk 18:47, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Tim riley: I think we need to go back to first principles. We do not even require that a reliable source be online at all. We only require that the source must be accessible in theory. As Colin stated, use of a web-only source of any sort is always problematical, but as you said, this data is unlikely to be be changed. Therefore, I think you should use it with a standard {{cite web}}, but prefixed with verbiage like "search result for 'foo' at...". If you really had to jump through hoops to get the search to work, describe it on the article's talk page. -Arch dude (talk) 19:48, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Excellent. That's most helpful. Thank you very much. Tim riley talk 06:58, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

request edit

Your page on September 11th attacks has been hijacked and now has flashing disturbing images. Please address with malicious edit.

See below. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

The 9/11 page has gory images

The 9/11 page has gory gifs. These images should be taken down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.11.139 (talk) 15:19, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored. Adam9007 (talk) 15:20, 11 September 2020 (UTC) Oh, I see..... Adam9007 (talk) 15:22, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this up. As of this posting, the images have been removed and the editor who added these images has had his editing privileges revoked temporarily. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia ^talk 15:31, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Questions about translating a portion of an article

Hi! I have a few questions about the procedures for translation.

For context, I'm planning to work on the 2004 Formula One World Championship article. At the top, there is a banner with the following text: "This article may be expanded with text translated from the corresponding article in Hungarian."

I am not entirely sure how to properly do this, however, as there is only one portion of the English article ("Season Report") that could be significantly expanded using the information from the Hungarian article. I've watched tutorials on how to use Wikipedia's Content Translation feature, but that only covers the process for creating a new, entirely translated article, not expanding a portion of an existing one. A complete rewrite of this entire article would be unnecessary and time-consuming. What should I do, especially formatting-wise, given that I'd only be working with a portion of it?

Also, how much must I adhere to the structure of the Hungarian article in producing the translation? Although it is far more comprehensive, it also contains a lot of trivial information which can easily be left out from the English version.

If I am merely supplementing the existing content with more information from the Hungarian version, do I even need to follow the formal process for marking an article as translated or can I just edit it as I would in any other circumstance? Because I am a native speaker of both languages, I am planning to write all the new English material myself instead of relying on the machine translation to get me started.

Can someone let me know what I should do here? I want to go about this in the most faithful and accurate way.

Thanks, F8of (talk) 19:06, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@F8of: You are under no obligation to translate or use the entire article. Just translate and use the part you need, and feel free to modify the format as you see fit. You have two obligations: attribution and citations. You must attribute the Hungarian article. One way is to describe your actions on the talk page ("I translated and adapted a section of Hungarian article. I did ...") and in your edit summary, mention the talk page entry ("from the Hungarian article. see talk page"). Now for citing sources: the Hungarian article is not itself a reliable source. you must cite the source that the Hungarian article used, or cite other sources. -Arch dude (talk) 19:31, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Arch dude: Okay! Thank you so much for the clarification, I can do those. F8of (talk) 19:43, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Arch dude: If the Hungarian article cites Hungarian language sources, would they be unacceptable for an English version? Just curious. Cheesycow5 (talk) 21:52, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

@Cheesycow5: Foreign-language sources are perfectly acceptable, although English-language sources are preferred. See WP:NONENG. The principle here is that sources must be publicly available so they can be checked by someone, not that they can be checked by every reader. We can always find someone to check the source if it is disputed, even if it is not English, just as we can find someone to check a paper publication in a library if necessary. English is preferred only because it streamlines this checking process. -Arch dude (talk) 02:36, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@Arch dude: Oh that's makes sense, thanks. Cheesycow5 (talk) 02:57, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

What is "title", in citations?

I got an error in my citation, saying that title is missing. I just don't know what is supposed to go into it. The help page for this error merely says, redundantly, that this error means that title is missing, but does not give examples or explain what "title" means or is for. 104.192.208.50 (talk) 20:13, 11 September 2020 (UTC) Dan W

It's the title of the thing you are citing. So if you are citing a book, it's the title of the book. If you are citing a newspaper or magazine article, it's the title of the article. I hope that's helpful. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:15, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

draft: Alicia Luna

Hello, I'm working on a new article on Spanish screenwriter Alicia Luna. Her name is in red. I wrote the first two lines, but then realized that there is already an article on Alicia Luna in the Spanish Wikipedia. Can I use it as a reference? I'm actually a translator, so I would not mind translating it, if that is an option. Can you please advise? Thank you Lunaandmaya (talk) 21:15, 11 September 2020 (UTC)Lunaandmaya

@Lunaandmaya: Welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for wanting to make it better. Yes, you can translate it. See WP:TRANSLATE for info and guidance on this. RudolfRed (talk) 21:42, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Super Computers

In your list of super computers, you missed one that was probably the first and if it was still in one piece, would put to shame every machine out there unless you have on faster than light. Texas Instruments in Austin Texas, started looking at fast computers in the late 60's by a bunch of men with their PhDs. I joined in August 1973 and system 1 was already a go, and a total of seven were built in Austin. System 1 was the protype, system 2 went to GSI in Holland, system 3 went to the US Government in Huntsville, La. System 4 which was largest system ever built went to Princeton Unversity, Systems 5 & 6 were kept in Austin, and System 7 went to DC! Once we got fully operational, the Government came in to measured the speed of our Central processing Unit! After running every benchmark they had, faster than any other machine in the world. Our bench marks showed us to be .04 to the speed of light but their tests showed it to be .02 of the speed of light! So what is the story of all theses others machines? Have they run the government benchmarks? Or is someone pulling this out their rear! IBM 3090 systems finally after a huge number up upgrades finally ran faster than we could so we powered down and tore the systems apart. I still have some of the logic cards and motherboards plus all my info and pictures of the day we pushed the red emergency off buttons. Cost wise for electric power for our three machines for a 30 day month was $60,000! And the city of Austin had to assign one full generator plus half of another to keep us up. Every logic card had a cold water radiator on both sides of each card with 39 degree water to keep the cards from melting! There are still lots of logic boards floating around among our people! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.123.147.243 (talk) 21:43, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

My advice would be to add this info to the Talk:Supercomputer page. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to List of fastest computers? Are you aware of any published material that gives information about this project and the super computer you are talking about? Published material (books, magazines, newspaper articles, etc.) is what is required for us to incorporate information into our articles. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 22:24, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

You might need to explain how you're measuring a computer's speed in velocity (distance per unit time). My experience is that the fastest computers, especially supercomputers, are stationary objects. Also, your claim regarding a dedicated power station generator (typically tens to hundreds of megawatts) doesn't seem likely. That's why we would need reliable sources to allow a reader to verify the claims. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 11:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

The OP is almost certainly referring to the TI Advanced Scientific Computer. It never quite made it to the top of the "fastest" list, but almost. -Arch dude (talk) 17:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC)