Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 July 3

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July 3

Visual Editor

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The link to promote Visual Editor says that it is enabled for all registered users, but I can't find an option to enable it from my Preferences. Is it turned off because I am using the legacy MonoBook skin, or am I missing the obvious box on the Edit tab? Robert McClenon (talk) 01:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC) I didn't think that I would want to use it for real editing, and I don't. But as a professional software tester, maybe I can make a constructive contribution to improving it so that it is fit for use by engineers. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

According to its talk page, Visual Editor supports both Vector and Monobook. I use Vector, and for me the edit tab now always leads to Visual Editor (on article pages, mind you), while "edit source" goes to the traditional editor. I don't think you can use Visual Editor outside of the article namespace yet. Knight of Truth (talk) 01:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry to be a nuisance in a situation that apparently everyone else thinks is crystal clear. In article mainspace, I only see a tab to Edit This Page, and that gets a classical Wiki edit. Is there a hidden or odd link to do a Visual Edit? Am I missing something obvious? I really don't mean to be a nuisance, but I don't see how to use the Visual Editor. Does this mean that it should not be used by human beings? Does this mean that it should not be used by male engineers? Does this mean that the way to use it is obscure for legacy editors? Robert McClenon (talk) 02:16, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey Robert! At top-right where I expect to see Read, Edit, View history, I now see Read, Edit, Edit source, View history. Clicking Edit will launch the Visual Editor. Alternatively, when I hover over the Edit link in each article section, a horizontal menu pops out, allowing the option to Edit or to Edit source. I didn't need to do anything special to invoke this "feature", it just started working for me today. I'm using Vector with no special changes of note. Maybe blow out your browser cache? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:23, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

What browser and version are you using? See the paragraph beginning "Limited browser support" at Wikipedia:VisualEditor#About the VisualEditor. Do you have JavaScript turned on? -- John of Reading (talk) 06:58, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Do you see both "Edit" and "Edit source" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example?useskin=vector? This should start VisualEditor if it works for you in Vector: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Example?useskin=vector&veaction=edit. Or you can just change skin in preferences to test whether it works in Vector. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:02, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I am using Internet Explorer 9. Is that one of the browsers which it does not support? I don't have the Edit and Edit Source distinction, only Edit, which is a classical Wiki edit. I tried switching to Vector while editing an article, and it didn't do anything.

I will note that enabling a new editor only in article space, so that it can be tested in article space but not in a sandbox, is unsound testing philosophy. It appears that one can test the editor by editing an article, but test edits to articles are a form of disruptive editing for which there are (appropriately) distinctive templates. Recent software changes, especially this one, are being implemented in a way that disregards sound testing methodology. Robert McClenon (talk) 12:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Internet Explorer's not compatible, so you'll need something like Chrome. I'm not a sales agent, but you'll see a lot of other benefits switching to Chrome (other browsers are available), and save us web designers a lot of hassle; every person no longer using IE is one step closer to us not having to code fallback design information especially for its awkward requirements.  drewmunn  talk  12:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Out here in the real world, some of us are not only stuck with IE, we're stuck with IE6 (and Windows XP, thanks for asking). This is a global project, and should be able to accomodate everybody. --Orange Mike | Talk 12:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:VisualEditor currently says: "VisualEditor is temporarily disabled for IE9 and IE10 users, due to various issues that are being fixed. VisualEditor will not be made available for users of IE8 and earlier; such editors should switch to some other browser in order to use VisualEditor."

So it appears IE9 is expected to be supported later. VisualEditor is only enabled in mainspace and userspace because its current features are thought to be of more use there. There are a lot of complaints about VisualEditor at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) and Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor. Feedback at this help desk is unlikely to be seen by developers. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I understand your frustration, but it is not viable for web developers to support browsers like IE6, even if they still are in use. They make up the minority of web traffic and require whole days of programming just to get them to not throw out errors, let alone actually display what you want it to. Some companies charge an IE tax on their web stores to anyone using IE7 or older, and I personally both support that and would embrace it if I too had a web store of significant size. Hopefully, as fewer sites become compatible, your workplace will be forced to upgrade if they haven't already (Chrome is hardly and upgrade, anyway). On top of that, you really should talk to whomever's job it is to choose your web browsers; do they know how much risk their putting their employees and their network in by using it? I cannot say, in all good faith, that I'd feel comfortable encouraging or supporting the use of a browser that is the sole cause of many thousands of phishing attacks and identity fraud.  drewmunn  talk  06:46, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

SEVERAL FIXES AND QUESTIONS FROM OLD SCHOOL HISTORIAN

Before I throw the computer out the window, thought I'd share 3 experiences. Let me explain I am a historian, but I'm from the age when instant messaging meant 'Western Union'. So I write, but extensive formats kill me.

Tonight I added to List of town tramway systems in the United States#Florida under the cities of St. Augustine, Jacksonville and Tampa, each of which only had a single line or two. It appears that my ref items went in okay, but the diamond in front of the city names is all screwed up. WTF?

I added a hyperlink to The Florida Interurban Railway and Tunnel Company then went on to create a short piece on this company, when I tried to add the ref on this page all I get is nasty RELIST messages but the explanation and directions as so vague they might as well be written in Chinese. So the ref links are broken and I didn't add them all.

Finally I went back and found my own PINE STREET RAILWAY article which I lifted from my own website, Light Rail Jacksonville. I was going to add several more but the article was removed due to 'copyright' troubles... EXCEPT THAT I OWN THE ORIGINAL SITE AND STORY! I just want to share this stuff but it appears that it is very hard to do.

Thanks to anyone that can repair, fix or answer my questions. Robert W. Mann (talk) 03:27, 3 July 2013 (UTC)BOB

Not sure about the first two issues, but if you want Wikipedia to use content that you have the copyright on, you need to licence it in a way that allows it to be used. Please read WP:IOWN for how you can do that. RudolfRed (talk) 04:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I've cleaned up the references on the second article, and added some tags so other editors will hopefully get involved in ensuring the quality of the article. If you have further references to add, please feel free. You may find ProveIt useful to speed up the citation process.  drewmunn  talk  07:05, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

For the first issue, doing stuff with tables is hard. Doing anything not straightforward inside a table is even harder. I see that the Jacksonville entry has a section header == something == inside it, which is probably a mistake, but I don't know what was intended. For the second issue, I see that someone has already fixed it, by adding a {{reflist}} tag. For the third issue, as Sonicscrewdriver has said, we can't just accept your word that you are the owner of the web site whose content you lifted. You can either rewrite its content here using different wording, or go through the bureaucracy of a formal copyright release. But overall, if these are your first three contributions to Wikipedia, you are doing very well, particularly for an "old schooler". Maproom (talk) 07:23, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Question about VisualEditor.

Why can't I use VisualEditor on some pages? Is there a way I can enable it on these pages?

Camerontregan (talk) 10:24, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Looking over the talk page, it is very buggy, and that is probably the problem. Any concerns you have with it, might be better addressed at the aformentioned link. CTF83! 10:37, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

VisualEditor is only active in the article and user namespaces; It does not work on talk pages, user talk pages, templates, files, help pages, or any other non-article pages. If you find it is not available on a page in the article namespace, you may have accidentally switched off Javascript in your browser, of changed to a browser that does not support VisualEditor.  drewmunn  talk  10:37, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

It's only set to work in mainspace (articles) and userspace (not user talk space). PrimeHunter (talk) 11:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Delete account

how can i delete my account? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alicia Sciascia (talk • contribs)

You can't delete it. See WP:UNC. This is your only edit anyway. CTF83! 10:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)It's not technically possible, as we have to maintain records of contributors. You can read more, including information on how to enforce your right to vanish, at WP:Delete account.  drewmunn  talk  10:37, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect photograph attached to my wiki page

Hi there,

I'm an actress & have a Wikipedia page, which someone alerted me to recently. However the photograph that is used on the page isn't me!

This is obviously very misleading - how do I go about changing the photograph to one of myself?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.228.222 (talk • contribs)

We'd need evidence of the fact, and preferably also your name! If you can cite us a reliable source that proves it, plus find a photo in the Creative Commons (or license us one to the Commons, if you are willing), then it can be updated. If a suitable replacement can't be found, but evidence is given that proves the current image is wrong, then we'll remove the image from the article.  drewmunn  talk  11:10, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Please give a link to the page where you see the wrong photo. Do you see the wrong photo when you view the page here at http://en.wikipedia.org or only when you view it somewhere else, for example on a Facebook page or a Google search results page? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:15, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

If you like, you can also use photosubmissionswikimedia.org to submit a photograph you own of yourself. To submit a photograph, you must own the copyright (or have the person who does own the copyright send the email), and be willing to release it under a CC-BY-SA 3.0 or less restrictive license. This, in short, means that anyone would be able to use, reuse, or modify the image however they want, even for commercial purposes, with the conditions that they must relicense it under a similar license, and they must attribute it to you, usually with a link back to the upload page.

Alternatively, you can look on Wikimedia Commons to see if an image of you already exists under an acceptable license. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 15:46, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Unsigned IP posts

Is there a way for me to sign the posts of IPs who have not signed? There's a bot able to do it, but it doesn't catch all of them, and sometimes i encounter them and would like to sign them. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 14:57, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes; copy the IP address and the timestamp from the page history and use the {{Unsigned IP}} template to format them - see that page for instructions. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:05, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 15:08, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Looking for old discussions

Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Players: "Senior club appearances and goals counted for the domestic league only." This point has obviously been discussed. Where are these discussions and how am I supposed to look for them? The Other Saluton (talk) 15:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

The top of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football has a "Search archives" field. You can search for appearances or goals. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:18, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks. The Other Saluton (talk) 15:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Players/Archive 1#European performances says "it's been discussed to death". PrimeHunter (talk) 15:55, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Oneironaut

Oneironaut

This page keeps being to be edited to undo TRUE information. Please look into this as this certainly is NOT vandalism. This is my business and a legitmate one. The links clearly proove that. If you would like, perhaps the page name should be altered to Oneironaut (Band).

Ryan Rock — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrock5154 (talk • contribs)

Hello User:Rrock5154, welcome to Wikipedia. The issue here is you never provided enough significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject to show that your band is notable. Just existing is not enough to justify it having it's own article. I suggest you go through the Article Wizard and submit your article to Articles for Creation, so these issues can be worked out before it just gets deleted. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 15:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Ryan, since their is already an existing article titled Oneironaut, but you want to create a new article about your band, you need to create a new article at Oneironaut (band). I wouldn't recommend that though, due to your obvious conflict of interest with the subject, and because the band does not appear to be notable, so the article would likely just be deleted anyway. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 15:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

If the band was notable (which it isn't) the article would be OK at Oneironaut with an appropriate hatnote. --ukexpat (talk) 15:47, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Oneironaut is currently a redirect to Oneironautics. If the band got an article then the primary meaning of "Oneironaut" might be discussed, but I agree the band doesn't appear to satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (music). PrimeHunter (talk) 15:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

• Hello, a user has just reverted your attempts to reinstate the content that was removed. The reasons for this are discussed above, and please bear these in mind before making any more attempts to create an article for your band. If you continue trying to add such content, you may be reported for disruptive editing. Thanks!  drewmunn  talk  17:41, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Octacube

 Done

Octacube (sculpture). Please make the first word of the title appear in italics. Let me know how you did it, too. (don't put an infobox in though)— Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO (talk • contribs)

Looks like you figured it out in this edit.--ukexpat (talk) 16:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

can someone fix a vandalized page where data has been lost

It looks like Fastest_recorded_tennis_serves has been edited as someone called Max Osborne has added in a serve of 1,560,000 mph in place 2. Not sure what was there before. I haven't got time to fix it.

Vandalism. Reverted. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:58, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

For future reference: all previous versions of a page are available on the 'History' tab. --ColinFine (talk) 18:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Deleting inappropriate or inaccurate content

I'm pretty new at this and a little nervous about making edits that others may question on merit, even if I feel clear about it.

First, if I remove content, I presume I can just put "removed inappropriate/incorrect content" in the edit description, and no more?

Second, if someone's judgement differs from mine on a reasonable decision, can there be a mark against my account for it? GS Silver (talk)

The WP:BRD cycle is relevant here: be bold, but if you are reverted discuss it.--ukexpat (talk) 17:49, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Firstly, welcome to Wikipedia! Removing content that's disruptive or falls foul of a guideline is extremely useful. There are some times when content that may otherwise break our guidelines has been allowed to remain, and consensus has been gained in the past. However, if this is the case, someone will usually revert your removal with a note marking your change as made in good faith. These aren't counted against you in any way, so don't worry. If someone disagrees with your opinion and reverses your removal without noting that previous consensus has been gained, you may ask them on either their talk page, or the article's talk page. This is part of the bold revert discuss cycle, and allows you to make your point, and for other editors to decide whether you were right or not. If you find that previous consensus has been reached, and you disagree with the decision, you can start a request for comment on the article talk page, and it's possible people will side with you. The only time you'd get a black mark against your name for reverting content that is inappropriate is if you repeatedly remove it after a user re-adds it. This constitutes and edit war and even if your changes are correct, you shouldn't persist beyond the limits laid out in the 3 revert rule. If you find an edit war starting, invite the user to discuss, and ask uninvolved editors, mediators, or administrators to give their views. If you find someone undoing your removals consistently (sometimes other users become vindictive, sadly), then you can ask an administrator to review their conduct. If that is the case, any warnings or other messages are discounted by anyone reviewing your conduct or contributions. I hope this sets your mind at ease, and happy editing!  drewmunn  talk  17:53, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Great info. GS Silver (talk)

is it permitted to delete content since it is supposedly WP:Fringe, without trying to support this claim?

I have tried to find out if anyone can delete supposedly WP:Fringe contents , without prior discussion?

I have found: do not remove sourced information from the encyclopedia solely on the grounds that it seems biased. Instead, try to rewrite the passage or section to achieve a more neutral tone. This make sense , but what about false claims that the content is WP:Fringe? At the moment it seems that everyone can delete whatever he does not like, with an unsupported claim of WP:Fringe, and only then the discussion might start. thanks. Ykantor (talk) 19:13, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

What article and edit does this query refer to? AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

There is a user that deletes most of my writing, for reasons like: fringe, undue weight, pov pushing, This fact is a detail and cannot be used as a main one, 2nd source required AS ALREADY EXPLAINED, against the concensus and so on. In my opinion my writing is well supported, short and objective. If you are interested, please have a look at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Assistance#How_to_tell_an_editor.2C_that_he_should_not_delete_against_wikipedia_rule . thanks. Ykantor (talk) 19:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

The WP:BRD process does indeed say that anybody may remove anything that they think is inappropriate for whatever reason, and the discussion will start when somebody disagrees. It is good practice to discuss first if you think a change may be controversial, but not required. --ColinFine (talk) 22:46, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Anyone, as mentioned may remove content that they think is incorrect or otherwise inappropriate. However, for one user to remove content that he thinks is inappropriate and another user to re-insert content that she thinks should be present repeatedly is edit-warring. Don't edit war. Use Dispute Resolution instead. If two editors disagree, a third opinion can be requested. If multiple editors disagree, a Request for Comments should be originated, which will invite multiple editors to try to get consensus. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I have tried, and the 1st occurrence is not treated after a month. (Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct/Assistance#How_to_tell_an_editor.2C_that_he_should_not_delete_against_wikipedia_rule ). It seems that it is stuck. thanks. Ykantor (talk) 19:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Jewish Autonomous Oblast: formatting for infobox and flag image

Two questions about the infobox on Jewish Autonomous Oblast:

1. The article gives the Yiddish name of the oblast, ייִדישע אווטאָנאָמע געגנט, but it's not in the infobox. I tried to add it, but without success. It didn't show up in the preview, so I cancelled the change.
2. The flag looks very strange. Because it's mostly white, on a white background it just shows as a long narrow horizontal multicolor stripe. The file's doc page, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast.svg, says

   It is easy to put a border around this image:

   [[File:Flag of the Jewish Autonomous Oblast.svg|border|100px]]

but either that's not working at all or my monitor isn't showing it. I left this link in the page's infobox code, in HTML comment brackets, after the existing code.

If you reply to either of these, please ping me in your comment with {{ping:thnidu}}?

Thnidu (talk) 19:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I've added the Yiddish name, using the parameters loc_name1 and loc_lang1. The border round the flag shows up for me. @Thnidu: --ColinFine (talk) 22:54, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

editing citations

I need some help editing citations. My edits for MERCURY the planet involved eliminating some refereces already there after editing out the dubious assertions that gave rise to them. I found this very complicated since elimination changes all the subsequent citation numbers. Furthermore, the displays seemed to keep changing: on one view the citation matched the text, but recalling that view gave me a different numbering for the citations. Help please.tdw1203 (talk) 20:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

You are attempting to edit references with the new VisualEditor which was enabled only two days ago. That can be complicated. Maybe the old editor on the "Edit source" link works better for you. See Help:Referencing for beginners for how to make references without VisualEditor. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

It wouldn't matter which editing system you're using. Every time anyone saves a change to Mercury (planet) (or any other page using <ref> tags to create WP:Inline citations), the numbering of the footnotes automatically and immediately adjusts to correctly number whatever is left on the page.

If you want to change multiple citations, my suggestion is either to start at the bottom of the page (so that changing numbers won't affect your later work) or to search for the citations you're interested in by using something other than the number, like the authors' names or the titles of books. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:24, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MovePage&wpOldTitle=User:Launchballer/{{{1}}}&wpNewTitle={{{1}}}&wpReason=Moving+userspace+draft+to+articlespace

What that is a link I can click to send one of my articles to userspace. I am after an input box, such as the one at Wikipedia:Article wizard/Ready for submission, which I can simply fill in and any article at User:Launchballer/ThatTitle will be moved to ThatTitle. The URL above, complete with {{{1}}}s, is listed above for something like what I'm talking about.--Launchballer 21:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

This option is available at the top of every page; see Wikipedia:Moving a page#How to move a page, though if you want an input box anyway, here's one: PleaseStand (talk) 23:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

That inputbox works, but doesn't preload the "reason for move" field. I don't think the Inputbox options are flexible enough to achieve this. If you ask nicely at VPT, someone may be able to code you a script to add a toolbox link. But how many draft articles are you planning to move? -- John of Reading (talk) 06:25, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Several.--Launchballer 09:51, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Get logged out when I check my watchlist

I have never had this issue before. I always log in for 30 days. About 12 times today I have been logged out when I click on my watchlist. Is there some system glitch? Can I fix this problem? I am still using the same browser and OS. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 22:48, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Which browser and OS are you using? Try resetting your cache if you have not already done so. If that does not work, either update or change your browser. --JustBerry (talk) 04:46, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

If a cache reset doesn't work, and it's something at Wikipedia's end, it should probably reported at VP:T so it can be fixed. Since Vorpal Visual Editor is up, lots of weirdness happens here. It could very well be a related issue worth reporting.

The "Either update or change your browser" mentality is one thing Wikipedians are supposed to stay clear of. (Anyone can city a WP: page for it?) It might clear up the issue, but WP is supposed to work with all major browsers. If it actually resolves the issue, it could be some malware screwing with one browser and not the other, so the "true" issue would still be unresolved... - ¡Ouch! (^{hurt me} / _{more pain}) 07:18, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. It has stopped happening since the second time I tried rebooting. μηδείς (talk) 22:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)