Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 June 10

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June 10

harsh, delayed messages displayed indefinitely

In march I inserted a link that I thought was relevant to the section it was under, and misunderstood the nature of Wikipedia, thinking it would simply be deleted if it was found unuseful. Sorry if that was rude. I received a bunch of messages that didn't show up until some time after I was blocked, and when I read them now I worry that they could be seen. They contain a harsh tone that I would certainly have heeded if I had seen them in real time. Is there a way to have them removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.77.177.189 (talk) 02:35, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

If you aren't going to readd the links don't worry about it. If you are worried about the messages, you can blank your user talk page as that information is old. GB fan 02:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, the messages were intended to inform you that you had broken some of Wikipedia's editing rules. As long as you remember not to repeat these previous mistakes, that's fine! You are free to delete the messages from your talk page (doing so supposes that you have read an acknowledged them). benzband (talk) 17:08, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

delete account

can you please delate this accound thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Musikkille (talk • contribs) 02:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

See WP:RTV. - Purplewowies (talk) (How's my driving?) 04:39, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Sorry accounts can not be deleted. This account has made edits to the encyclopedia and those edits must be attributed to an account. You can request to vanish. This would entail your account being renamed and links from this account to the new account name would be removed so the two accounts aren't easily connected. GB fan 04:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

{{Cite jstor}}

Does anybody know why the Cite JSTOR template hasn't done anything on Vincent Price (educator)? Ryan Vesey Review me! 03:11, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I even tried "Jumping the queue". Ryan Vesey Review me! 03:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

See the discussion here. It is not clear from the description which bot is supposed to act on that template. I don't know whether Citation bot handles it or whether there is another bot. User:Citation bot#Function doesn't mention {{Cite jstor}} at all. I suggest to bring this up at WP:BON. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 15:35, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I left a note there. Ryan Vesey Review me! 17:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Unsure of how to flag an article for improper form

There are two edits to the Bit_(money) page that are not in proper wikipedia form. Unfortunately I do not know the correct way to flag the article and I do not know the appropriate "style violation." Both edits include discussion of the article in the actual article. I am not sure what the author of edit #1 is disagreeing with, nor can I find what was deleted and it is not clear why he author of edit #2 thinks the article is up for deletion.

I hope this is the appropriate place to ask for advice and/or ask for a review. I apologize that I could not be of more help.

Edit #1: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bit_%28money%29&diff=493716850&oldid=493716600

Edit #2: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bit_%28money%29&diff=493716600&oldid=493533640

DouglasCalvert (talk) 06:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Both the edits above were added by the same user (166.249.131.162), I think they are requesting that section be deleted because they don't think its relevant to the article. I have moved the parts of that section that seem to be discussion of the content to the talk page and maybe someone with more knowledge of the subject will take a look at it and address the IPs concerns. Sarahj2107 (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Help needed with project banner code

I've posted information on a change needed to the WP:ships banner on the banner talk page. Personally I haven't a clue how to code this change hence the help request. TIA. Brad (talk) 07:26, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid these things take me a lot of head-scratching and trial-and-error as I copy portions of the code I need from currently existing templates and test them in sandboxes. If you want to make a study of it, you could start with WP:TEMPLATE, meta:Help:Advanced templates, and select the "view source" option at Template:WikiProject Biography. Another suggestion is to contact editors who have created such templates (e.g. the WP:Biography or WP:Ships templates) in the past. There may be editors here who can help you, but if not then that's the best I can do for you without learning the advanced markup for myself. Good luck. -Thibbs (talk) 18:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Sign

Is there a script or something to remind us to sign our posts on talk pages? Roshan220195 (talk) 08:19, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

If you want, you can go to 'My preferences' in the uppermost row, 'Editing', and check Advanced option 'Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary'. Dru of Id (talk) 08:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, answered the question I thought I saw. Dru of Id (talk) 08:33, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You could add {{YesAutosign}} to your userpage or usertalk page, and SineBot will sign for you if you forget. ^Avic_ennasis @ 08:59, 20 Sivan 5772 / 08:59, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You could only edit Wikipedia while in a giant skinner box and hire someone to wear a white lab coat and reward or punish you when you remembered or forgot to sign.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 09:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Sackett

Hello!

The article on the Sackett family name, and the associated books by Louis L'Amour incorrectly states that the Sacketts are a fictional family. The books are fiction, though they are based on family journals, so the path of the Sacketts at the very least is verifiable. Further, as we are a real family, I resent that we are labeled as fictional. There have been Sacketts or Sackett anscestors in this country at the very least since the founding of Virginia.

Please rectify this. The Sacketts are not a fictional family, nor are we extinct. We are well over 200 strong in surname alone, much stronger if you number the descendants of this very American, very alive and well Clan.

Thank you,

Rob Sniffin (Paternally descended from the O'Sniffins of Cork County Ireland, Maternally a Sackett, desceneded from the Reeves family) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.120.18.103 (talk) 09:06, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The article Sackett is about the fictional family. The article Sackett (surname) discusses the actual surname. ^Avic_ennasis @ 09:47, 20 Sivan 5772 / 09:47, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I have added a note to the top of Sackett:

For the real surname, see Sackett (surname).

PrimeHunter (talk) 09:50, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps Sackett should be moved to Sackett family?--ukexpat (talk) 16:49, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I have donated money to Wikipedia...

...and after my donation, I then created my account. Is there any way I can have my $5 donation show up under my contributions?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skimino78 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

That is not what we mean by "contributions" here! Your contributions to Wikipedia consist of the edits you have made, the files you have uploaded, the articles you have written; not the money you may have donated to the Wikimedia Foundation. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You can show that you are a donor by placing the code {{User wikipedia/Donor}} or {{User wikipedia/DonorWM}} on your user page User:Skimino78. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:00, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Several things

Hi,,My question is about several things.First how do you edited a ,open page,,in my case,coca tea and coca,,,with verifiable laws,referrence numbers to find said laws,and ,new knowledge about this argricultural product,also 100 percent verifiable,,without someone deleting it who never ever took the time to actualy look up said laws,verifiable information,just delete it because they could.Second,if there is a dispute,which there obviously is,why I still dont know,,again no-one but the department of justice for the united states of america can make laws,,,but if there is a dispute,,,how do I get someone to actually look up said laws quoted,to verify this proper information so it is not deleted again,cause no-one has as of yet,except 1 person,something like copenhagen,ie user name.3rd this information is vital to the united states public,as drug testing has literally now a days in the united states is the difference between life and death if someone will succeed in life there.So how do I get this 100 percent lawful,verifiable information on this product listed on your wikipedia site into the article as the ,new verifiable knowledge it is?4th I gotta say,for me,,wikipedia is the most confusing site I have ever enter,,,anyway to make it a little less confusing?Also ,for me,,since it has been soooooo confusing to use,,Is there anyway to actually be more concerned about the verifiable knowledge,then how it get into the article.My point here is I really thought wikipedia was about knowledge for the people by the people,but in this case it appears to be more about how the knowledge gets to the public.I have tried several times to try and stick to the information and knowledge only.However several times it appeared to be more about ,you didn't do y to get to z,,,like I said earlier,wikipedia for me is way to confusing,but also to me this knowldge is vital to the public,thus more important then ,how it get in the article as long as it all is verifiable laws and knowledge.Thank you paita — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paitalona (talk • contribs) 14:45, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

There are already discussions regarding your edits at Wikipedia:Help desk#Definition of censorship and several pages linked there. Starting another discussion here does not seem productive. Let me just point out that articles don't mention everything that is verifiable. Editors of an article choose which verifiable things to include, and below the edit box it says "If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." PrimeHunter (talk) 15:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I think there is some confusing here,again,of course I welcome the information given to be used,re-distrubuted,it is very useful knowledge,so I don't know where that came from.Again,I am responding to your comment,,,,my question again is,if someones wants to delete something simply because they can,is there a place to verifiy all information before anyone deletes it?Does someone actually verify the knowledge in the article before they delete it?paita — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paitalona (talk • contribs) 15:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

This is WP:FORUMSHOPPING. See User talk:Paitalona#Regarding this user's edits. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

time difference in roza iftikar

i want to know that if there is time difference between opening of roza on the ground floor and the top floor of the world tallest building burj khalifa. if there is difference how much is it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.96.100.198 (talk) 15:55, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand exactly what your question is but I do know that it is not a question about how to use Wikipedia. That is the purpose of this page. You probably need to go to the reference desk. That is the area of Wikipedia that answers questions about things other than how to use Wikipedia. GB fan 16:14, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

If you are thinking of gravitational time dilation then "Time Moves Faster Upstairs, Confirming Einstein's Relativity" says: "The world's tallest building is about 850 meters (half a mile) tall," said Alan Kostelecky, who studies relativity at Indiana University in Bloomington. "If you lived there for a million years, the difference would be a few seconds."

If this is about when muslims consider sunrise to have occurred for the purpose of fasting then I don't know how or whether they precisely define things, but from a tall vantage point you would generally see the Sun earlier. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:35, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

inaccurate link for Tony Osborne on this wiki page Black Gunn (1972)

inaccurate link for Tony Osborne on this wiki page Black Gunn (1972). Tony Osborne is not Anthony "Tony" Osborne[1] (July 13, 1926 – August 27, 2010) was an American professional wrestler who wrestled under the name "Tough" Tony Borne. but a music creator Thanks, Tommy Carl — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.216.8.94 (talk) 16:33, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Tommy! i have removed the link. benzband (talk) 17:00, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

search

why i cant find the page i created in Google search ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumdo_%28illusionist%29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Domdom18 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The page Mumdo (illusionist) has been deleted. benzband (talk) 16:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

What to do with unused user sandbox page?

I came across this user subpage: User:RLHobbs/sandbox. It looks like the user is a school student whose group was given the task of improving the candy article, with feedback from their professor. The improvements were added to the candy article at the end of March, and other Wikipedia editors have since built upon them. This user subpage hasn't been edited in over two months now, nor has User:RLHobbs edited anything in that time either. What should be done with this page? JIP | Talk 17:09, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Unused sandboxes don't hurt anything. If you really want to, you could take it to WP:MFD under WP:STALEDRAFT - but it's probably best to just blank the page and move on. ^Avic_ennasis @ 18:12, 20 Sivan 5772 / 18:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Normally only User:RLHobbs has the right to have it deleted. However if the page violates the rules regarding userspace content it may be deleted by someone else. The first option would be to post a message on User talk:RLHobbs asking them if they might request deletion. Roger (talk) 18:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

How to cite this book

If a book is a translation of another book from another language, which parameters of {{cite book}} should I use for the title and author of the original book? The book in question is this one. Or is it sufficient to list Adamson, Lemmermeyer and Schappacher without mentioning Hilbert? -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 18:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You shouldn't mention Lemmermeyer and Schappacher at all unless you're citing something from their introduction. Otherwise, use "Hilbert" and "David" in the "last" and "first" fields, "Trans. by Iain T. Adamson" in the "others" field, and the English title in the "title" field. Deor (talk) 22:06, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I guess I should clarify that I'm assuming that you're quoting and/or citing the English translation. If you have access to the original German version and you're quoting or citing that, you'd use its title and date and omit the "Trans by . . ." business. But it's difficult to see why you might want to do so when a translation is available. Deor (talk) 01:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Unfortunately I don't have access to the original German version, so the english version on Google Books must do for now. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 17:40, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Average article size

Out of curious, what is average article size represents? in this link. Thanks!Yeucongbang (talk) 18:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

This question was also asked at WP:RD/Humanities#Average_article_size. It's usually better to not post the same question in multiple places. RudolfRed (talk) 18:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Is there a problem? Is Wikipedia's policies against this? And I don't agree with you on your statement! I would say it is usually better to post the same question in multiple places, especially when someone can't the answer in the first place!Yeucongbang (talk) 19:49, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes there is a problem. The Help Desk (this page) is for asking questions about Wikipedia itself. The Reference Desks are for questions about other stuff. Posting the same question in different places is regarded as WP:Forum shopping, which is not allowed. Roger (talk) 19:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

You already got the correct answer at WP:RD/Humanities#Average_article_size: It's the average size of the article after edits by that user. They also told you how to test it. Instead of doing that you assumed the answer was wrong and reposted the question here without saying there were already answers elsewhere. That means you are wasting our time by making us investigate your question in the same way others have already done. It should be common sense to not do that. "Ask questions" in the box at top of both this page and the reference desks links to Wikipedia:Questions which starts: "Please choose the most appropriate place to ask your question". We are all volunteers. Perhaps you think it's better for you to get more people to spend their volunteer time examining the same question, but try to also think of others. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:49, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Setting up pictures for access on Wikimedia Commons and appropriate licensing

Would appreciate some help over assigning access to media images. I appear not to have set up an image I have just uploaded correctly as it seems not to appear when I try a search for it. I have two images which do appear against the search of 'Badgeworth buttercup' on Wikimedia Commons. The image I have just uploaded is Badgeworth_buttercup_closeup_2012.jpg and it is appearing on the page on which I have coded the link. Perhaps I have not set the access correctly or the licensing correctly? I have cleared my cache in case a local problem but no joy to date. Have a small set of photographs I would like to put up for anyone to use against the normal copyright license protection so do wish to get my routine correct to do this. What have I failed to understand or allow to happen? I notice I seem not to have chosen the same licensing as I did on the first 2 images. Sjeans (talk) 20:09, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

File:Badgeworth buttercup 2008.jpg, File:Badgeworth buttercup closeup.JPG, File:Badgeworth buttercup closeup 2012.jpg

The indexes used by the "Search" box are updated only every 24 hours or so for efficiency reasons. This has nothing to do with the licenses. Just be patient, and try again this time tomorrow. All three images have the same licenses, as far as I can see, but the two license boxes are displayed the other way round in the latest image. I don't know the reason for that, but I'm sure it makes no difference. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:03, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for this information - I did wonder if this might the case as it appeared my image had been uploaded. Thanks also for confirmation about the licensing. Sjeans (talk) 08:25, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Question about foreign sources

I am translating the article from Russian Wikipedia (Underground rocket). While there's a lot of English sources to claim notability, I'm not sure how to document the Russian sources. When inserting the names of journals, books, etc. and names of the articles into appropriate cite templates, should I leave them in the original language, or should I translate them? -- Wesha (talk) 20:55, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Use the original language in the cite, you can add an explanation in English as a hidden note. Roger (talk) 21:04, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The article uses Citation Style 1— the templates have fields for translated titles; see the template documentation. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:33, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Not able to use wikitravel on iphone

Hello,

I am unable to view wikitravel pages on my iPhone. When trying to load a page it just continuesly shows it as loading but doesn't go through.

Works fine on my PC

As an example I've been trying to look at Swedens page.

Cheers, Brent — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.176.65.66 (talk) 22:03, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikitravel at http://wikitravel.org is one of thousands of wikis on the Internet. Wikipedia or the Wikimedia Foundation which runs Wikipedia is not associated with Wikitravel. See http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Technical_details. You can try http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Help instead. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:00, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Articles for creation/Ballyhannon Castle (aka Castlefergus).

Hi Wikipedia,

I have been working on my first article for Wikipedia, and have been excited at the prospect of its publication. Your penultimate reply to me advises that it has been deleted because it appears to infringe copyright as being a cut and paste from http://www.ballyhannon-castle.com/history.htm

I posted a question to one of your volunteers, and Houn very kindly and swiftly replied to me with how I go about obtaining the permission of the copyright owner to the publication of his work (as is posted on http://www.ballyhannon-castle.com/history.htm). I am now pursuing this as I know the author personally (he is a local historian).

In the meantime I also mentioned that I had spent many days reading your editing and formatting procedures, and posting the article for approval, but I saw that it seems to have been permanently deleted (or at least it is not visible in 'my contributions'). As I really could not afford the same amount of time writing, editing and formatting it again, I asked if I could be emailed the full (html) text of my most recent submission, so that I can either pass it on to Mr. Breen for him to attend to, or I can at least save it on my pc until such time as you have approved its submission.

Houn replied that I can ask the deleting admin (Nyttend) to provide me with the article text (probably wiki-code, not full HTML), and he also advised that 'until the permission has been obtained and confirmed, the text should not be put on Wikipedia, not even in userspace. Huon (talk) 21:54, 10 June 2012 (UTC).'

I would therefore like to ask deleting admin for this, but I can't see any options or links on Wikipedia.org to request this. I'm wondering if this question now suffices as such request, or if not, I would really appreciate if I could get the link to where I can do so.

Many thanks for all your help to date.

CorneliusWilliam (talk) 22:56, 10 June 2012 (UTC)CorneliusWilliam

You can ask at User talk:Nyttend for him to e-mail you the text of the article. Alternatively, after the author's permission has been confirmed, either by his changing the "©2004 Ballyhannon Castle Quin County Clare, Ireland" at the bottom of the web page to "Licensed under Creative Commons license CC-BY-SA" (by far the easiest way) or by sending an OTRS e-mail as explained at WP:PERMISSION#When permission is confirmed, you can post a message on User talk:Nyttend (citing the OTRS number) in which you ask him to restore the article. Deor (talk) 23:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Also note that the copyright problem is only one issue. Even if permission is obtained or the license of the original text changes, the tone of the text may not be appropriate for an encyclopedia, and it will still require references to other independent, reliable sources to demonstrate notability.--ukexpat (talk) 01:00, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi Deor & Ukexpat,

I really appreciate your helpful replies. I logged a message with Nyttend to email me the text of the most recent draft of the article, and they have replied with it already! Fantastic, and much to my relief that I won't have to start again from scratch!

I am approaching the copyright issue from both directions you mention, namely seeking to change the "©2004 Ballyhannon Castle Quin County Clare, Ireland" at the bottom of the web page to "Licensed under Creative Commons license CC-BY-SA", as well as the author emailing in his permission/authorisation to 'permissions-en AT wikimedia DOT org.

Sincere thanks again for your continued support. CorneliusWilliam (talk) 14:54, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I am afraid that I have had to tag User:CorneliusWilliam/sandbox for speedy deletion as a copyvio of the same source material. Copyvios are not permitted anywhere, including user sandboxes. When the copyright issue has been resolved, you can recreate the draft.--ukexpat (talk) 15:20, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

I understand. Thanks Ukexpat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CorneliusWilliam (talk • contribs) 15:37, 11 June 2012 (UTC)