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August 24[edit]

Deleting Wikipedia search history[edit]

How does one delete a search history on Wikipedia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.59.83.201 (talk) 01:14, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Would you provide a link to an example search history on Wikipedia? Thanks. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 01:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What browser do you use? ---CWY2190^T^C 02:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This question comes up every few weeks on the Help desk. Try this Google search on the Help desk archive for previous answers. --Teratornis 03:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Internet Explorer and I think Opera: Double-click the search box, move your cursor over the first entry, and hold down delete until the box disappears. Firefox is the same, but you shift-delete. x42bn6 Talk Mess 10:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

family tree[edit]

please help me find the way into the family tree 'new zealand' thank you . kay smart121.222.135.61 01:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you mean by family tree 'new zealand'. We have a lot of articles about New Zealand in Category:New Zealand, and Portal:New Zealand may be of interest. PrimeHunter 02:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dunnett Classic Drums deletion[edit]

"Maxim: decided to delete this contribution. 21:00, 23 August 2007 Maxim (Talk | contribs) deleted "Dunnett Classic Drums" (Speedy deleted per (CSD g11), was blatant advertising, used only to promote someone or something.) When talking about or describing a company, it's founder and it's history, you are of course, "promoting" it in the sense that you are talking about it. By deleting on these grounds is akin to saying the discussion of Hitler or McDonald's restaurants is blatant advertising or promotion of someone or something. The irony is that the basic template for this contribution was taken directly from other companies on Wiki who have very similar content. Nothing that was in the piece was embellished - it was stated as fact and those facts were accurate. I guess logic never entered Maxim et al's collective minds. Maybe someone can explain. Here then, are other examples of what Maxim defines as "blatant advertising, used only to promote someone or something." Drum Workshop, Ludwig drums, Tama drums, Pearl drums, and Gretsch Drums. -- Karman Bergquist (talk · contribs · logs) 02:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "he's doing it, so why can't I do it too?" argument is not a valid argument against deletion. You can request a deletion review, but it is your responsibility to explain why the company is notable. Just existing as a company doesn't make it notable. I tried to check the website myself to see if there any notability to the company, but all I got was a big nasty white box and a note telling me to install Flash (note: Flash doesn't exist for 64-bit systems). So, as far as I can tell, the company is so non-notable that they can't even hire a web designer who can provide alternative information for non-flash web browsers. -- Kainaw^(what?) 02:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For "he's doing it, so why can't I do it too?", see WP:WAX. A Wikipedia article on Dunnett Classic Drums should be created out of reliable source information that is independent of Dunnett Classic Drums. Google news doesn't seem to bring up much to use in such a Wikipedia article. Have newspapers or books covered the history of Dunnett Classic Drums? If so, that material can be used in the Dunnett Classic Drums article. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 03:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fonts[edit]

Is there a page that lists which fonts can be used on wikipedia (as in sigs and user space pages)? Lara ♥Love 03:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can use pretty much any font you want for personal stuff, however, understand that not all users will have BigFancyFont.ttf on their computer, and it may render incorrectly. You can list many fonts in the order that you want the browser to try, for example, <span style="font-family: Zapfino, 'Brush Script MT', cursive">Example</span>, will render the text in Zapfino if it is available. If not it will then try to use Brush Script MT, and then the computer's default cursive font. As for signatures, the regular guidelines for signatures apply, i.e. that it not be too obtrusive.--Max Talk (+) 06:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I discussed this recently with another user. He was using a font that I believe comes with the latest version of MS Office. It is a small font, so he made it twice normal size to make it appear to show up the same size as the rest of the text on the page. The result is that if you didn't have the font installed, you got regular text at double size. So, feel free to use whatever font you like (you may be the only person who sees it). Just avoid resizing the text to make it look pretty to you because it may look terrible to others. -- Kainaw^(what?) 12:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your replies. :) Lara ♥Love 13:08, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How can i stop my article from being vandalised and edited?[edit]

I wish to inquire infomation on how i can prevent my article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unkysam) From being vandalised and edited. All infomation provided was summarised by the public and agreed on a mass majority and i do not wish for it to be vandalised and edited by other users.

Please get back to me at [email address removed] and please send any help/advice/ or instructions on how i could go about doing so, if im not doing it correctly already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unkysam (talk • contribs) 04:27, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

You cannot restrict what happens to articles you create. Sorry. This is GFDL, anyone and everyone can edit it. As for stopping vandalism, if only we could :) i ^said 04:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How to Create a Personal Sandbox?[edit]

How do I make my own personal sandbox, a subpage of my own personal page? I found the article describing how, but it I feel completely illiterate when I look at it--it might as well be written in hieroglyphics. Can you describe this to me like I'm a very smart four year old, please? I'm sure this is also detailed somewhere else on the website, but I also am having a hard time searching--not sure where to go or what to search for or how to know exactly when I've found it... The tutorial of the site is just as confusing to me, it seems. Thanks in advance! -- Beseechedspark 04:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Click on User:Beseechedspark/Sandbox, add some text, and save. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 05:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I mean kic on User:Beseechedspark/Sandbox, abb some text, uh, 'n sabe. ;) -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 05:08, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sir, you can create a subpage, and title it sandbox. You can look at mine if you'd like: User:N734LQ/Sandbox —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 10:20, August 24, 2007 (UTC).

Watchlists[edit]

What is the function of a watchlist? Hallpriest9 (Talk | Archive) 05:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It lets users keep track of any changes to articles that may interest them, such as articles they created or articles from a topic they like. (See Help:Watching pages). ---CWY2190^T^C 06:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

COI?[edit]

Is it a conflict of interest to use photos of myself or someone I know to illustrate an article about hair color? Someone mentioned that it was, and I'm not sure, but if it is I won't bother; the article in question had a debate on the talk page about how the current photo was really bad, so I replaced it with an image of myself (I put it on the talk page, waited a few days, then replaced) and they said it was a conflict of interest (they also pointed out why it's not suitable anyway, but I wanted to be sure before I find another picture of myself). Kuronue | Talk 06:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, WP:COI is about editing articles about yourself or your organization. Using a picture of yourself as an illustration is fine, and hardly the sort of self promotion the COI guidelines talk about. henrik•talk 09:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, secondary self promotion is fine so long as the primary effect is improvement of the article. If you replace an existing image, a main requirement is that the new image be better than the replaced image. An article such as Auburn (color) can have at least two images since there are a variety of Auburn hair colors. You might consider using a gallery at the bottom of the article, e.g.:

Caption1
Caption2

-- Jreferee ^(Talk) 17:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

indian constitution is not fair[edit]

need for debate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.144.88.70 (talk) 06:56, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Wikipedia is the place for Indian contsitutional debate. Kevin 10:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Subpage[edit]

I would like to know how to create a subpage for my user page, if anyone could help, that would be great!

--Sendura 07:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Type User:Sendura/Pagename (where Pagename is the name of the desired subpage) in the search box, and press enter - you will get to User:Sendura/Pagename which you can edit to create the page. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 07:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let me help you with that! It's as easy as clicking. User:Sendura/Subpage. Click that, and go to town. To create another one, just type, on your user page, User:Sendura/title of page, click it, and enjoy. Any questions, please feel free to post a note on my tlak. Have a nice day!N734LQ 10:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Geomite[edit]

A method of biomineral fertilization which provides the plant with insoluble volcanic base material and a spectrum of bacteria and fungi in addition to those already inhabiting the soil. It relies on the production of chemical exudates by the plant, which are released into soil from the roots and provide selective nutrition favouring the growth and activation of bacteria and fungi which then breakdown insoluble minerals for absorption by the plant.

The method is 'organic' in that no soluble chemicals are applied - the plant determines it's own nutrition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.104.59.123 (talk) 09:28, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Is there a question here? Kevin 10:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps they want someone to create an article on biomineral fertilization?--69.118.235.97 11:20, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the case, then submit the info at Articles for creation. Kevin 12:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is Biomineralisation what you are looking for? -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 17:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

mathematics[edit]

square —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.134.198.171 (talk) 09:58, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

If you have a question regarding mathematics, please use our Mathematics Reference Desk. Please also give more detail, as we can't tell what you are asking. Raven4x4x 10:37, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, when adding information to articles such as you did to Wheat weevil, please be aware of our sourcing policy--69.118.235.97 11:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

downloading songs[edit]

i am a new user with user id deeptinair2007 and i would like to down load songs from your site i was trying the same but they are giving me response that my id is incorrect pls help out —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deeptinair2007 (talk • contribs) 11:14, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem you're running into is that wikipedia != iTunes (: We're an online encyclopedia, the only music we host on our servers is 2 or 3 second clips usually used to illustrate a song in a way that is compliant with our fair use doctrine. --69.118.235.97 11:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the problem is the free .ogg (Ogg Vorbis) file format, you might want to check out VLC media player. I personally recommend it for playing almost any audio or video format. Nihiltres^(t.l) 11:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to appeal against a speedy deletion?[edit]

Hi, I am a London based music writer, last night I started a project to catalogue many of the bands active on the revitalised London hard rock scene on wikipedia, but my first entry was deleted this morning. 08:10, 24 August 2007 SchuminWeb (Talk | contribs) deleted "Puredecay" (Speedy deleted per (CSD a7), was an article about a band, singer, musician, or musical ensemble that didn't assert the importance or significance of the subject.. using TW)

My problem is with the abiguity of the line "didn't assert the importance or significance of the subject.."

Significance to whom?

To somebody with an interest in underground music like myself, the articles I have planned would be quite significant.

To somebody not interested in the underground rock scene in london then there would be minimal significance I agree.

I also noticed that when i began searching, quite a few bands that I would have been including were already present with similar or considerably smaller and unreferenced articles —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neonkick (talk • contribs) 12:00, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

-RB

You should talk to SchuminWeb first, and if you then want to take it further, you need to go to deletion review. Kevin 12:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you'll wish to review the notability for music guidelines. There are some specific things that are included to verify a band's notability there you may find of assistance. Cheers, ^Ariel♥Gold 12:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. If the bands already have an article here on Wikipedia, you may want to consider simply adding to the existing article, rather than attempt to create a comprehensive "catalog". ^Ariel♥Gold 12:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the responses -neonkick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neonkick (talk • contribs) 12:33, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

You may benefit from reading: WP:WWMPD#If all else fails, try another wiki. There are lots of other wikis catering to special interests such as (quite possibly) underground music, and typically these specialist wikis are primarily interested in adding content in their topic areas. Wikipedia is the best-known wiki, but it is an encyclopedia, and does not intend to serve as a general-purpose information appliance. Many new users form hasty generalizations about Wikipedia that turn out to be invalid. (Wikipedia's failure to do enough to dispel such hasty generalizations is, in my opinion, an ergonomic shortcoming of its user interface.) If you find another wiki that is friendlier to your interests, be sure its licensing policy does not prevent you from later trying to republish content elsewhere. --Teratornis 16:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pesky new messages bar[edit]

Is there any way to disable that annoying orange "You have new messages" bar? Jeffpw 12:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just look at your user talk page (User talk:Jeffpw), and it won't appear until you get a new message. Cheers, Tangotango (talk) 12:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to that, if you're asking if you can disable it completely, so you never see the message bar any time someone posts something to your talk page, I don't think so. See here. ^Ariel♥Gold 12:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Ariel, for that helpful link and reply. Jeffpw 12:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since Wikipedia is a collaborative project, there's no reason you should want to disable it. Friday (talk) 16:30, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can disable it, but you wouldn't want to. Prodego ^talk 17:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another option I thought of would be to have your talk page redirect to a subpage of your userpage. From then on out, user would leave messages on subpage and the "You have new messages" bar would not show up. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (tαlk) 19:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

enroll[edit]

hai !!! how to get the wikipedia free encyclopedia to my e-mail —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.119.164 (talk) 12:38, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

First, please don't use lolcat speak. Second, you can't. There's too much information here to send all the Wikipedia articles through email. -- Kesh 14:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On Wikipedia, we disparage lolcat speak, but we smile on WP:CUTS. See: Wikipedia:Syndication for some RSS feeds and so on that you can subscribe to. Also see:

User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia#News

for some mailing lists and so on. --Teratornis 17:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GFDL re-use and notability[edit]

Someone creates an article. I find it interesting, I mirror it on my web page, and I link back to the Wikipedia page in order to satisfy the accreditation requirements, because the edit history can be found there. Someone then comes along and flags the article as being non-notable, and it is deleted, perhaps correctly and after due discussion. Where do I stand in respect of the GFDL? Am I now in violation, as the author of the information is no longer credited? — PhilHibbs | talk 14:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia administrators can still view the history of a deleted article. I do not know what impact this would have on your rights under the GFDL. However, the folks at the Wayback Machine face exactly the same situation, so I imagine they have figured something out. --Teratornis 17:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This might not be the best place to get advise about potential violation's of GFDL external to Wikipedia. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 17:50, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Uploading Images from a website[edit]

Hello. Am I supposed to place the URL of the website where I found the picture at under "Source Filename"? Thank you. Marlith ^T/C 16:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's where it's located on you're computer.--Kkr ouni /Ккроуни /ΚκρΩυνι 16:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Marlith ^T/C 17:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How far to go for references/external links when editing a page?[edit]

I'm looking at a page in an area that I have a lot of knowledge about. One thing the current page says is that references section are weak. So what constitutes 'enough' references? What constitutes too many?

Thanks for guidance in advance. dave (email removed) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deemery (talk • contribs) 17:12, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at WP:REF and its linked to articles. They should help you. Let us know if you still have any questions. KTC 17:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Use of personal knowledge in an article likely is original research. If the material in article is derived from reliable sources and those reliable sources are used in the article in a way that anyone can verify the material (e.g. footnotes), then that probably would be enough references. Posting a bunch of text from personal knowledge, then listing a host of references at the bottom of the article to essentially state "The posted information is somewhere in these references. Good luck in trying to verifying it." is usually not a good approach. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 17:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what you are saying — that physicists shouldn't edit physics articles? Historians shouldn't edit history articles? In any case, he's not saying he's going to edit the article content, just to add references to confirm existing content. — PhilHibbs | talk 10:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Did I do this right?[edit]

I uploaded a photo and then received a notice saying it may be deleted because I forgot to include a copyright tag. I am very confused about what that is and how to add one. Can you please look at the photo's page St Boniface Cathedral Facade Aug 2007 and let me know if I did this right? TIA Shaun Lovell 17:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The reason the words Copyright Tag were highlighted in blue is because it is a link to a page that discusses what copyright tags are and how to use them properly. -- Kainaw^(what?) 18:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your post was incorrect since you posted the text of the license between the brackets. Which of these licenses do you want to use? -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 18:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added the desired license. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 18:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hot headed admin[edit]

User:Mysdaao is a hot headed, rude admin/editor. He has left a rude messege accusing me of vandalising when I was just testing an edit. Please delete his account, thank you. --Bulb and Vegetable 18:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was absolutely nothing hot-headed or rude about his/her message. You should not test on the actual Wikipedia articles. That is what the sandbox is for. -- Kainaw^(what?) 18:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By your own admission, the images you added to Sheerness really did not fit with that article and they were removed. You added them back into the article and they were again removed. The article Sheerness presently is appearing on the Main Page, which is viewed by 100,000+ people daily. What would you have done different from what Mysdaao did? -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 18:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As Kainaw said, there was nothing rude in the message. If you don't know the terminology then perhaps you thought this sounded rude: "If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox." Note that sandbox (software development) is a common serious term and there is nothing condescending about it. I and many other experienced editors have their own sandbox for experimentation. You can also use preview to see how edits will affect an article. PrimeHunter 18:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AGF only goes so far. This post is clearly a WP:POINT intended to mock Mysdaao's usage of polite language instead of a straightforward vandalism warning. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The message appears to be {{uw-test1}}, one of the generic user warning messages. --h2g2bob (talk) 22:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

wikiproject creation[edit]

How do i create a wikiproject?? I know how to request one, but how do i go about actually creating a wikiproject page that has been requested?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paco8191 (talk • contribs) 18:15, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

See WikiProject Creating and maintaining. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 18:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Person in Category Listed by First Name rather than Last[edit]

How do I change when someone is listed by their first name, as opposed to their last, like everyone else in the category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.86.197 (talk) 19:00, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Use the "sorting" option on the category tag. For example, pretend we're putting [[Category:Foobar]] on the article for Joe Smith. We want it to list under "S". You would use [[Category:Foobar|Smith, Joe]]. -- Kainaw^(what?) 19:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is also a shortcut to help with this. At the head of the list of categories, type {{DEFAULTSORT:Smith, Joe}}. It saves the need to retype the name. --Moonriddengirl 20:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of notable alumni - nothing in the MOS to cover[edit]

Should these follow the WP:MOSDAB, with only one wikilink per item? On some articles, such as Texas Christian University#Notable alumni, a single person's entry may include half a dozen or more! --Orange Mike 21:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

how do i make a page.[edit]

how do i create a page on something hasnt had an article made about it already? Jevonsp 21:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.

If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. --Silver Edge 21:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

8-24-07[edit]

8-24-07

Dear Sirs,

I am in the process of writing a book and to prove some of my own thoughts I am including the thoughts of others of course giving them full credit for the article. I have 3 to 4 articles copied from Wikipedia especially the one on the Mayan Calendar.

I would like to get your permission to use these article giving you full credit for them. All of the other articles I have put in the book I have received permission to do so.

Would you please tell me what your policy is on doing this? I thank you for any answer you can give me. You may answer by E-Mail or letter.

Sincerly yours,

William C. Glessing 3850 N. Hwy. 89 Apt. 207 Prescott, AZ 86301 [removed email address to protect from spammers] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.92.10.132 (talk) 22:43, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Reusing Wikipedia content.--Max Talk (+) 22:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article in Wikipedia on "How to be a Good Boss"[edit]

Hi, I recently got a link in Wikipedia, for an article named "How to be a Good Boss"(or some topic very similar to that), and using that link, I searched and was able to land up that page in Wikipedia. I lost that link. I tried searchng for "How to". "How to be" etc in Wikipedia, but it is not displaying the link to the Article "How to be a Good Boss" - there were also links to "How to be a Good sister" and many reletd topics. Requesting you to let me know the link to the page - "How to be a Good Boss". Thanking you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.2.38.45 (talk) 23:13, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if you're looking for Be a Good Boss at Wiki-how? Does that look like the article you mean? --Moonriddengirl 23:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That must be it. They also have How to Be a Good Sister. There are many wikis. wikiHow and Wikipedia both use MediaWiki software but are otherwise unrelated websites. PrimeHunter 23:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

stop it[edit]

My query here got deleted. Reenstate it now or I will take "further action" (not legal action, so dont go spamming me that *No legal threats* rubbish) --Lan Cafe Whatever 23:42, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop reporting users here. The help desk is for asking questions about how to use Wikipedia, not filing complaints about other editors. Reporting them here will not result in any action against the users you complain about. --Mysdaao ^talk 23:51, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

replied on this user's talk page -- lucasbfr ^talk 23:58, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]