Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Major League Baseball hitters with two grand slams in one game/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 21:09, 28 December 2012 [1].

List of Major League Baseball hitters with two grand slams in one game[edit]

List of Major League Baseball hitters with two grand slams in one game (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Bloom6132 (talk) and ChrisTheDude (talk) 00:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it has been improved significantly over the past few months and now meets all 6 FL criteria. —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from TBrandley (talk) 04:16, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  • "all three bases are occupied by baserunners", take a look at WP:EASTEREGG
  • Not sure what you mean here. Nevertheless, I delinked the huge "all three bases are occupied by baserunners" and linked only "bases loaded". Is that OK? —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:52, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's pretty much what meant, it's fine now. TBrandley 04:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, please don't "unlink" it, just remove the bold, the link is very important per WP:UNDERLINK. TBrandley 04:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • If possible, references should be after punctuation per WP:REFPUNCT
  • "is the only player" repeatedly used one after another in lede
  • Fixed. Added "sole player" in between. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:37, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Second paragraph seems a big huge, would suggest splitting into even more paragraphs for WP:ACCESS
  • Split into 2 separate paragraphs. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add table caption to the key table to provide table reasoning per WP:DTT
  • It's mostly good, but WP:DTT states "Table captions consisting of one single word like "actor", "film" or "television" are inadequate as they are not descriptive enough." That said, "players" should not be used in this list, would suggest a much firmer caption, such as "Major League Baseball hitters with two grand slams in one game", something like that. TBrandley 04:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed. Replaced with "MLB hitters with two grand slams in one game". —Bloom6132 (talk) 04:17, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same goes for the players table, for WP:DTT
  • Add plainrowheaders to key table for MOS:BOLD
  • The column headers are bold; I think the key should reflect that. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Refs" → "Ref(s)"
  • I utilized "Refs" because in this case, all rows in this table have more than one ref (minimum two if not three). Therefore, the plural form applies to every row. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Great, but please add period dot "." to the end, forgot the add that. Thanks, TBrandley 04:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Baseball-Almanac.com. Baseball Almanac" remove work parameter, repetitive
  • Again, recent precedent (i.e. less than a month) utilizes both. And no, I can't find anything else that exists that suggests the contrary. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:40, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref. 1's publisher should be "BBC" and work should be "BBC News"
  • The publisher for "ESPN" should be "ESPN Inc"
  • It's not a matter of whether a format will do or not. It's the fact that there's nothing else that exists that suggests the contrary to the current formatting. It's been established throughout the WikiProject and that's something I cannot change unilaterally. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:27, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fine then, but not keen on it. TBrandley 04:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed. I think I can be a bit flexible here, since it's only one ESPN source that's being altered. —Bloom6132 (talk) 04:17, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid doubled periods in references, as seen in ref. 10
  • Any external links?
  • That would have been Baseball Almanac, but that's already being used as a general Reference. —Bloom6132 (talk) 18:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In attaining the milestone" check your grammar there
  • Fixed. Changed to "Tatís became the only player to hit two grand slams in the same inning when he attained the milestone." Is that better wording, or does it still sound a bit iffy? —Bloom6132 (talk) 17:31, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would split the two tables in the players section into two sections, one being named "Key", and the other being named simply "Players", seems right
  • I'm sorry, but I don't really understand. Do you want two "level 2" section headings instead of the table captions? Because the more recent baseball-related lists do away with having two separate sections for key and players. In the history (see very bottom) of the recently promoted Golden Spikes Award FL, an active fellow member WP Baseball corrected me on the issue and said the "key does not need its own section." —Bloom6132 (talk) 15:26, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article's use of alt text wasn't added correctly, instead of stating the player's name, like "Fernando Tatis", instead say a "man" per MOS:IMAGES, as it should not repeat the caption in itself. The rest of the alt text seems fine.

TBrandley 17:07, 15 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support TBrandley 02:34, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think it would be better if you had a photo of Fernando Tatis in a Cardinals uniform since he hit his grand slams with them (same for the other players). After a quick search on the Commons and Flickr I couldn't find any such photos, but at least the current photo is decent quality. Fredlyfish4 (talk) 00:05, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I searched Flickr as well and unfortunately, the only available pics of Tatis are semi-free and all depict him in a Mets uniform. —Bloom6132 (talk) 02:46, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Question is this collection of people notable outside the Baseball Almanac? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:24, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is notable. MLB.com lists this collection in their "Rare Feats" section, along with Ref 3 (David Vincent's book). —Bloom6132 (talk) 13:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • "Furthermore, Fernando Tatis is the only player to hit two grand slams in the same inning." I don't see why we would say "Furthermore" when the Lazzeri fact bears little resemblance to this one.
  • Fixed. Changed to "In attaining the milestone." —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:24, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Runs batted in should probably be linked in the lead, as a term of jargon that could use a link.
  • It's already linked earlier in the second sentence of the 2nd paragraph ("Lazzeri...proceeded to hit a third home run in the game and finished with a total of eleven runs batted in.") —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:24, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • All images could use alt text.

Giants2008 (Talk) 22:22, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:13, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments picky, from an outsider view of baseball...
  • "while Jim Northrup hit his grand slams on consecutive pitches.[9]" but I assume these were consecutively received pitches, not consecutively thrown pitches, right? And from what you've said before, in different innings? I know I'm being difficult but could use clarification.
  • Done. Changed to "hit his grand slams on consecutive pitches received in the fifth and sixth innings." —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • You have a general ref section, move [11] there too.
  • I believe I've asked about this before in MLB lists, but when sorting scorelines, I would normally expect scores where the winning number of runs is tied to then sort by the fewest number of runs conceded. Perhaps that's not standard in baseball lists? It certainly is in association football lists.
  • Quoting fellow WP Baseball member Rlendog in the ongoing List of Cleveland Indians Opening Day starting pitchers FLC, he states that "[t]he other similar FLs are all sorted on score rather than margin, so that seems to be the consensus as to how to sort this column." He goes on to say that "sorting on margin could be confusing, since the margin of victory is not explicitly shown - I doubt that readers who sort on this column would generally expect to see a sort based on margin." After searching several examples and reading this statement, I think it's safe to say that sorting by margin is not standard in baseball lists. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:05, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • TBF, TRM didn't actually say the list should sort by margin, he said that the list should sort by score, and then where two scores are the same (i.e. the three scores of 12, the two of 13 and the four of 14) then margin should be the secondary sort. I tried to implement this but couldn't figure out how to do it..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:56, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • We do use tricks on cricket lists to achieve automatic secondary sorting when, for instance, sorting by most number of wickets, the best for those tied is to have fewest runs, so the secondary sort is on that. Have a look at one of the recent "five-wicket haul" lists which use the {{sort}} template to achieve this. Having said that, of course I concede to consensus so if I'm the only one who thinks the random secondary sorting is odd, then you don't need to do anything about it. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:54, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Crisco 1492 (talk)
;Comments by Crisco 1492
  • Image copyright status looks fine (no action needed)
  • How Tatís achieved his record seems a bit fluffy (don't really need the pitcher, for example, and "the first pitcher in over a hundred years to surrender two grand slams in a single inning" sounds like purple prose to me)
  • Removed any prose about the pitcher. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:21, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • That was just an example. You go into a lot more detail for his effort than anyone else's. How much is WP:UNDUE? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:27, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed more additional undue details, keeping only the important facts. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Every team which had a player hit two grand slams won their milestone games. - Would probably do better above, before you get into detail about the individual cases
  • I gave a copyedit, be sure to double check. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your feedback Crisco. Much appreciated. —Bloom6132 (talk) 16:21, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose and images. Looks nice. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:20, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - with comments: St Louis Cardinals in lead should be St. Louis Cardinals. The links to bases loaded and runs batted in are redirects, as is National Baseball Hall of Fame in ref 12, but that's a quibble. Also, consider archiving your references, so that changes or removals of websites don't destroy your citations. --PresN 05:17, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done. Fixed St. Louis Cardinals and tweaked all redirects to piped links of the full title. I haven't done archiving before, but I think BaseballReference.com is pretty stable (if it does turn dead, then almost every baseball-related FL is screwed). —Bloom6132 (talk) 05:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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