Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Babe Ruth Award/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 19:57, 12 November 2011 [1].

Babe Ruth Award[edit]

Babe Ruth Award (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): – Muboshgu (talk) 22:03, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this article is at FL status, or will be once I make any corrections suggested by reviewers. It is modeled after World Series Most Valuable Player Award, a FL. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:03, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from —Bagumba (talk) 16:54, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from Bagumba
  • At some point did this award became a postseason award and not a specific World Series award? From this article on A-Rod, "... selected the winner of the Babe Ruth Award as the New York chapter of the Baseball Writers' Association of America's postseason MVP." Baseball Almanac says the award with discontinued after 2002. It would be good to expand on if/when the award changed, and any other distinctions related to World Series Most Valuable Player Award.—Bagumba (talk) 02:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed that too, and it sent me on a long Google News Archive search to find out. I believe it was an error on the part of the ESPN writer or A-Rod, though. As you see in the source on Lincecum's 2010 award, it specifies World Series only. As I saw nothing else suggesting the award was changed to all of the postseason, I took it as a blip, or fodder for a joke from A-Rod on his noted "un-clutchiness". – Muboshgu (talk) 03:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hartford Courant wrote "For many years, the Babe Ruth Award was strictly for the World Series, an award competing with the MVP award given at the Series. In 2007, the New York writers expanded it to include the entire postseason, the first award of its kind." There are other sources that mention its for postseason, just as there are sources that say its for WS only. Maybe do some more research. If its not definitive, you might want to mention both possibilities or at least mention the minority view in a footnote.—Bagumba (talk) 03:27, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I... did not find that article, or any other that said that. I will research more and respond tomorrow. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Searching through the archives, I think you're right. The award was changed in 2007, but SI didn't know about it. That sort of makes sense, when you see how lousy the BBWAA website is. Then again, I expected an association of scribes would be better at promoting their work. Anyway, I'll work on this tomorrow. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:17, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done I have made changes to the page to reflect that the award began to encompass LDS and LCS performances in 2007. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:27, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More comments:

  • While its mentioned that the award was created by the NY chapter of BBWAA, it should be made clear that it remains an award voted on by the NY chapter only. "... when the BBWAA changed the award to cover the entire postseason" might give the impression that it expanded.
  • Context should be given that its considered a less prestigious award to the WS MVP per sources such as [2][3][4]

—Bagumba (talk) 20:06, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Done. I purposely didn't use the Dickson source, though, because it erroneously says the award was discontinued in 2002. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:25, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments III:

Though MLB expanded its postseason to include the League Championship Series (LCS) in 1969 and the League Division Series (LDS) in 1995, the Babe Ruth Award continued to be awarded exclusively for performances in the World Series until 2007, when the New York chapter of the BBWAA changed the award to cover the entire postseason

The above makes it sound like the award was flawed for not expanding outside of the WS earlier, which I dont think was the case. First paragraph should be reworded to say that
  1. It is currently an overall postseason award
  2. It used to be a WS award
  3. It wasnt as prestigious as the WS MVP
  4. It was expanded in 2007 to entire postseason (not sure if any opinions since then on how it compares to WS MVP)
  • Need a source for WS MVP award winners in the table.

—Bagumba (talk) 20:23, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • Okay. If I use this in the table legend, is that sufficient, or will it have to be used at every row in the table? – Muboshgu (talk) 20:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • How about adding a general reference in the "References" section?—Bagumba (talk) 22:26, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Either way is fine: legend or gen ref. Also, how about using a "‡" before resorting to non-standard "&" ?—Bagumba (talk) 22:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The statement on "first non-American to win" needs sources. I wouldn't be against removing it altogether as trivia, but it's not a condition for FL. Sources aside from referral to another WP article are needed if it stays.—Bagumba (talk) 06:19, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Issues addressed to meet FL standards.—Bagumba (talk) 16:54, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:03, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Don't see the need to repeat Major League Baseball in the first sentence. Why not use the abbreviated version you introduced earlier?
  • The most recent World Series champions bit could use an update now.
  • See also should go before the notes section.
  • Publisher of ref 52 (The Montreal Gazette) should be italicized like the other printed publications.
  • The hyphens in the titles of refs 47, 54, 55, 61, and 110 need to be converted into en dashes. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:19, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • My bad, I didn't notice there was more than one on that reference. It's fixed. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:21, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:04, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "The Babe Ruth Award is an annual award given to the ..." instead of award...award, could we not say "The Babe Ruth Award is presented annually to the..."? Especially since the next sentence starts "The award..." as well...
  • "The most recent World Series champions are the St. Louis Cardinals, who won the 2011 World Series" again a little repetitive, perhaps "The most recent World Series champions are the St. Louis Cardinals, who won the 2011 series"?
  • No need to repeat Babe's first name after you've mentioned it the first time (with regard to the person, obviously you should with regard to the award)
  • Ref 10 should be a referenced note, and not a reference.
  • All image captions should take periods except for the infobox and Koufax, as they're complete sentences.
  • Ref 4 has double period, "fool" the template by leaving the . off the Inc.

The Rambling Man (talk) 16:41, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Rlendog (talk) 20:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Rlendog:
  • Campeneris' "Series-winning home run" in 1973 was in game 7, not game 6. I fixed that, but I still think the phrase is misleading, since it implies a walk off home run like Mazeroski's; Campy hit the home run in the third inning to give the A's a 2-1 lead, the Mets even eventually scored a 2nd run though they never caught up. I'm not sure how to accurately convey the home run in a pithy manner, but at least the fact that it was in the 3rd inning (as opposed to the 9th or extra innings) should be noted. For 1992 it is mentioned that Winfield's Series winning double was in the 11th inning, so adding the inning here (and probably to Mazeroski as well) would be consistent and more accurately convey the context of the respective "Series-winning home runs."
  • Green was selected for his defense, so just showing the 0-13 hitting stats doesn't convey an accurate picture of why he was selected. I added one defensive stat, his (tied) record (at least as of 1974) for most double plays in a 5 game series, to put a little context around his selection. You may want to consider others (his 3 DPs in game three also tied a record; it's not a stat per say, but the most memorable defensive play he made that probably clinched the award was nailing Buckner at 3rd in the 8th inning on a relay throw when Buckner represented the tying run - it just occurred to me that 12 years later the same award would go another player in part for his involvement in a play Buckner would like to forget, but that's a different story).
  • The switch in stats from WS only to full post-season is confusing. I know there is a note in the header, but that isn't visible when perusing a 50+ element list. I am not sure there is a better way, and I would not withhold my support if there isn't, but it may be worth some thought if there is some way to mark the changeover within the list. Maybe using a different color, although I realize that could create other issues. Rlendog (talk) 03:11, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • One more piece of information that might be worth considering would be an indicator as to players who also won the WS MVP Award (or alternatively, those who didn't, if fewer), since the WS MVP is somewhat overlapping but generally considered more prestigious. Rlendog (talk) 16:10, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Okay, I'll think about how to address these today. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:36, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I added a way to determine which BRA winners didn't win the WSMVP award, and edited the Campaneris and Green entries. As for the switch in stats, I could make Note #2 appear in every row from 2007 onwards if you like, but I don't think adding more symbols/colors would be a good idea. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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