- Singaporean by-election, 2012 (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
- User talk:Tom Morris#AFD closure
I noted in the AFD discussion that this was going to be saddening to watch. It was. The world proceeded to happen, as the AFD discussion progressed. There were only four participants in the discussion: me (who watched the news unfold, in line with my prediction at the start of the discussion, throughout the discussion), the nominator (who made a nomination and no further discussion contribution), one editor (who opined delete and also never came back), and Jacklee (talk · contribs). It only came to my attention after the article was deleted that one of the AFD discussion particpants was directly involved in the events. Yes, Jacklee is, by his own admission both here and on his SMU WWW pages, the Jack Tsen-Ta Lee of SMU who started appearing in the news reports, propounding his own view of the law, just after this article was deleted.Ironically, whilst maintaining in Wikipedia that there shouldn't be an article Jack Lee was merely adding to the (existing) reliable sources from which an article could be built. By my count, at the time that I went to User talk:Tom Morris there had been three law professors, several MPs, and former attorney general all discussing in print the legal circumstances and controversy surrounding this subject — enough material for an article of several paragraphs on that facet of it alone. (There have been several party announcements as to who will and will not field candidates.) It seems amazingly silly that we had a discussion at Wikipedia where one of the people busy documenting the subject outwith the encyclopaedia came here to argue that there shouldn't be an article on it. To that end, I'd like to see an AFD discussion where perhaps people less directly invested in the subject than Jacklee get to opine, perhaps from the point of view of building an encyclopaedia rather than excluding things that don't agree with one's point of view on the subject by having an entire article erased. As I said to Tom Morris, I think that Deletion Review is the best place to start getting some independent attention. It saddens me yet further to report that since then (a) two more legal experts have weighed in, providing sources in addition to the ones that were already available at the time of discussion closure, (b) a legal challenge has been mounted in court that the article can mention, and (c) the prime minister has come out and said what everyone else had been saying all along and that there will indeed be a by-election, Jacklee's arguments at Wikipedia notwithstanding. By the way: I'd very much rather not use my tools to undelete this for Deletion Review, but I'd like DR participants who aren't administrators to get a good look at the article as it stood when it was deleted, to get a full taste of the irony of its AFD discussion. Uncle G (talk) 15:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- temporarily restored for discussion at Deletion Review (Not having participated in discussion of this so far, I can do what Uncle G thought he would rather not do himself.) _ DGG ( talk ) 18:35, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore article without criticism intended of any AfD participants or the closing admin. Since the AfD was closed, it has been announced that the by-election will in fact take place. [1] The best way to deal with this would be to restore the article and allow it to be updated through normal editing. Although deletion may have been appropriate at the time, it no longer is. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:09, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore, as Metropolitan90 suggests. However, I think the original deletion nomination and some of the AfD discussion were ill-advised because it was not crucial whether or not a by-election had been called (and it still might not happen[2]). The article was describing a notable situation. For the AfD, "delete" was within admin discretion, I suppose, but a rename should have been considered. Failing that, a merge with Yaw Shin Leong or Hougang Single Member Constituency would have been better than deleting the material. Thincat (talk) 10:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore since the new information makes the reasons given for deletion no longer relevant. As an aside, I don't think the AfD comments were the strongest anyway, since they dealt only with whether or not the election was likely to happen and didn't consider the possibility that some things can still be notable without ever happening at all... Alzarian16 (talk) 01:15, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete or Merge I will certainly appreciate if this deletion review is brought to my attention (via my talk page) as I have certainly drop a message to the main contributors of the article that the article was going for AFD. The deletion review is not brought up at WP:SG also. With regards to DGG's comments on my non-discussion on the afd, my point is already brought up as per my nomination reason and as the AFD goes, contributors supported my nomination with only Uncle G commenting. Before I get to comment, JackLee –talk– has already commented and using the same few articles as the basis of the reason for nomination, hence I find it unnecessary to repeat the same point. If there was an issue with his comments at that point of time, Uncle G should have come forward and make further comments to reject the AFD.
- With regards to the article, I like to ask a simple question, is there a confirmed event of a 2012 by-election in Singapore? Even the Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong cannot confirm the event and he is the one who is able to call for it. While there may be other events unfolding which may leads to a 2012 by-election as the AFD was going on
and this Deletion Review is going on, it is was still not a confirmed event. Will there be a by-election? --Adding on here, I mean at the closure of the AFD, the by-election was not confirmed. It was only confirmed on 9th March that there will be a by-election-- The issue is still being settled. Will it be in 2012 if there is one (with assumption from the earlier question)? With the 2 questions in mind, will the article still goes through? Yes, the matter around the by-election is still notable, I agree that it should be written and kept in wikipedia so I will support a merge to Hougang Single Member Constituency if it had been suggested during AFD. --Xaiver0510 (talk) 01:52, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore. I don't see anything inappropriate with my previous support for the deletion of the article. The last deletion review was closed on 22 February. At that time, the article was written on the basis that a by-election would be held. As I pointed out, with references, this was incorrect as it had not been confirmed at all that a by-election would be held, and that the Prime Minister maintains the view that he has wide discretion as to whether or not to call a by-election at all. My personal view on the matter – that it is unclear whether the PM was legally correct in taking this stand since the Singapore courts have not had the chance to pronounce on the matter – was irrelevant to whether the article should remain in Wikipedia or not. Since the last deletion review, the PM announced on 9 March that he has decided a by-election will be held (see [3]), though he has not said when. Thus, if some editors wish to have the article restored, I have no objections to that. — Cheers, JackLee –talk– 05:44, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore, of course. The irony there is, indeed, considerable.—S Marshall T/C 12:34, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment – The controversy about if or when to hold the election is notable, but it is not clear to me that the election will be held in 2012 at all, and the article (in its undeleted state) does not give enough background on the controversy for anybody to appreciate why it is important (I had to google it to figure that out). Perhaps it can be restored under a different name until we know that it will occur, and then it can be moved back to its original title when that happens? Bwrs (talk) 04:44, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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