Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 March 14

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Administrator instructions

< March 13 Deletion review archives: 2009 March March 15 >

14 March 2009[edit]

  • Sheree_Silver – restore and update based on new sources. Article can be renominated for AfD if new version is judged to still be inadequate. – Aervanath (talk) 06:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
Sheree_Silver (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

During the course of the discussion, I took steps necessary to correct the article by adding more independent sources and uncovered more accomplishments by this Doctor in Metaphysical Philosophy. My contentions for keeping the article were based upon provisions in WP:N...

Contention A: This article provides "significant coverage", because I did not mention any original research and addressed criticism in my revised entry. Contention B: The sources are "reliable" because information is taken from the source's website(s), local newspapers, and national outlets such as the Wife Swap website. Contention C: Regarding "Sources," 17 different are cited. Contention D: 15 of 17 sources are "Independent of the subject." Contention C: Regarding "Sources," with latest updates 32 are cited. Contention D: 20 of these 32 (not counting duplicates) are "Independent of the Subject." Contention E: There is no "presumed" of notability, because it is already official that Dr. Silver will appear on national television for a second time, and has fought to do her work in her county. Furthermore, based on my latest revisions, the statements originally made to prompt flagging this article for deletion are primarily now invalid (As mentioned in Contentions A, C, and D)...-Archive from AFD Discussion

I truly believe that Dr. Silver met general notability requirements by being shown on national television multiple times (if one counts the repeat airings and syndication on Lifetime), appeared on a variety of print media in her life, and even went on national talk shows like Good Morning America Now. Nonetheless, the consensus reached was deletion.

Since the article was deleted, I have continued gathering new sources not mentioned, and the admin MSBinz told me to bring my undeletion request here because he disagrees with admins. overturning consensuses.

I have almost over twenty additional sources (to the original 32 before the article was deleted) to lend to the notability of Dr. Silver, and will continue to update as they come along:

http://wfoynews.blogspot.com/2008/10/family-on-wife-swap.html

(local news interview)

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article1014.html

(reference to criticizing "rumpology")

http://www.myhomelifemag.com/08winter/08winter_basics.aspx

(she gave information to Home Life Magazine which they published)

http://pastguests.edfurbee.com/

(Past guest on local radio)

http://www.folioweekly.com/documents/August12.pdf

(Magazine that serves in the Jacksonville, Fl area: she predicted Obama would win, as well as some guy running in an election)

http://carynday-suarez.com/2009powawards.php

(Proof that her book won an award. It's with an organization that went out of business a few months ago, I called the number for confirmation.)

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-monitor8-2009mar08,0,4841840.story

(The LA Times did a piece on how the families in the episode were)

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/life/entertainment/news-article.aspx?storyid=133093&catid=19

(Jacksonville, FL News Broadcast "Good Morning Jacksonville" Interview about the last experience, this one, etc.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpEYXLpreA

(her kids give their side of the story in a YouTube video, to a First Coast News Producer)

http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/ci_11861966

(Wife Swap husband criticizes Dr. Silver)

March 12, 2009 - Variety features "Wife Swap," in several articles and the executive producer names the Silver's first episode among the ten most memorable wife swaps in the show's five years on air. (Digital Variety has it at www.variety.com/article/VR1118001147.html)

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/goingthroughchannels/2009/03/friday-march-13-2009-wife-swap.php

(Blog on show predictions with a matchup of scientist/psychic)

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2009/03/12/2009-03-12_desperate_wife_agrees_to_return_visit_to.html

(NY Daily News Interviews Dr. Silver and Richard Heene, the other swap dad. Richard says she introduced him to the "psychic" realm, criticizes, and Dr. Silver admits one reason she did the show was the economy.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/mar/13/will-100th-wife-swap-be-different/

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090313/LIFE/903130336/-1/ENTERTAIN06

(Saying the wife Swap hundredth episode will be more of the same)

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=133615

(Latest Interview with the Jacksonville, Fl Broadcast "Good Morning Jacksonville", explains how she called the first kid an extraterrestrial, how UFOs are in this show, etc. This is on the day the hundredth episode will air).

http://www.coast933.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=tadbrian.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/30271/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30271/2016/richmedia/0313WifeSwap.mp3?CCOMRRMID=26390776&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=PROVIDENCE-RI&NG_FORMAT=ac&NG_ID=wsne93fm&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=2016&SERVER_NAME=www.coast933.com&SITE_ID=2016&STATION_ID=WSNE-FM&TRACK=Wife_Swap

(part of a set of interviews in march with a bunch of radio shows in the states, she talks about the rumor of controlling weather, her swap husband, and responds to criticism of her field)

March 13, 2009 8:00 pm - Wife Swap Silver/Heene (Show airs. Message board users label the show as "abusive." http://abc.go.com/primetime/wifeswap/index?pn=mb&cat=71886

. One user commented, "It's the worst yet.")

http://abc.go.com/primetime/wifeswap/index?pn=recap#t=129325 (A manual, rules, and post-swap interviews with both families of the 100th episode)

According to http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20070605abc02, the first airing of the Silver's Wife Swap episode on May, 28, 2007 got 6.2 million views (taking 1st place for the 8:00 spot). The second show, which aired March 13th, 2009, received 4.5 million viewers according to http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63310451/m/828103591, 2nd Place in the 8:00 spot.

http://www.bigbigforums.com/rewardtv/615036-wife-swap-heene-silver-abc.html (Message board discussing the 100th episode)

http://mommysavers.com/boards/entertainment/116105-wife-swap.html (message board discussing the 100th episode)

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=50827451 (message board including 100th episode discussion)

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID73/322.shtml (message boards about the first Wife Swap episode)

http://www.realitytvmagazine.com/blog/2007/05/28/silver-pitney-families-on-wife-swap/ (message board about the first wife swap episode, person proclaiming to be "Ashley Pitney" talks)

http://www.zerosec.ws/wife-swap-s05e15-pdtv-xvid-yestv-wife-swap-s05e16-pdtv-xvid-yestv/ (Person provides link to the full 100th episode online. I have not double-checked the download, however)

http://hartleychiropractic.com/ColdsandSinus.html (congratulating chiropractor for treating children without using "harmful drug therapy")

http://hartleychiropractic.com/EarInfections.html (congratulating chiropractor for treating son, "the more things that can be treated naturally the better")

http://www.maryhubley.com/staging.html (this artist provides images of the jewelry store Dr. Silver used to own.)

http://www.flogfolioweekly.com/?p=251 (Florida blogger comments on the 100th episode, feels sorry for Dr. Silver)

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/the_soup/index.html ("Poking fun" at Dr. Silver's comment March 19th The Soup)

  • Comment Spring12 please remove all the references to the motivations of other editors, personal criticisms of them and assumptions of bad faith you your nomination and stick to what is important - the sources. DRV is not a platform for attacking other users and DRVs that are substantially attacks on other editors will be closed out of hand. Thank you for your understanding, Spartaz Humbug! 06:59, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for advice, I've revised accordingly.Spring12 (talk) 15:04, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing admin Referred user here because I don't think admins should decide on content and do not feel capable of judging if new sources meet WP standards, will leave it up to the community. MBisanz talk 07:14, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I applaud that. Relist so the matter can be considered at AfD, no reflection on the closer because it's due to new information.—S Marshall Talk/Cont 17:50, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Permit recreation, at least in user space on the basis of the references shown above, which would seem to provide foundation for an acceptable article. DGG (talk) 21:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse Deletion The BIO issues raised in the AfD are not redressed by the above. Eusebeus (talk) 17:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Eusebus, interviews for the New York Daily News/LA Times, having their episode named in the top 10 by an Executive Producer for ABC, published works in My Home Life Magazine, and proof of being an award-winning author should certainly address any remaining BIO issues from the first discussion. The 20+ references above bring the source count up to 50+. Please reconsider Spring12 (talk) 22:01, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd not worry too much about it. He !votes to delete pretty much everything. Hobit (talk) 19:50, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • restore and likely relist I didn't find a whole lot in any single one of the RSs I looked over, but as a whole there is clearly enough to write an article. Looks to pass ONEEVENT also as there were two different periods she was on. Plus a books, plus other stuff. I'd !vote to (perhaps weak) keep this in an AfD. Hobit (talk) 17:18, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.
Nicholas Chan (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (article|XfD|restore)

Deletion was done even with notability proven; deletion request by chase78 appears personally motivated. Ncknight (talk) 04:08, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article written was backed by credible secondary references, both online and in print meeting Wikipedia:Notability_(people) with regards to published secondary source data such as newspapers like Today, The Strait Times and Bernama repeatedly on the areas of enterprise.

Meeting the criteria of topic specific relevance (enterprise and venture capital) is Nicholas Chan receipt of entrepreneurship related awards and nominations such as the Spirit of Enterprise 2005 (with reference) and the Fortis Heros 2008 on the area of Social Entrepreneurship in Singapore (not keyed in yet, but with PDF article on Fortis website) further reinforces the article.

New substantiation of the serial entrepreneur element via print articles, radio interviews and TV interviews has been discovered by me last week (8 new secondary sources) and 2 new print articles with reference to the venture capital aspects have been documented. Request undeletion of article so that I may be able to incorporate said secondary references.

Deletion request by chase78 appears personally motivated based on the mannerism of the request made particularly on issues like Army which was barely 1 sentence. Significance is because the result was the formation of 2 businesses with his former army friends which are referenced in secondary sources (company in point is Who Works Around You, secondary sources of which I just discovered this week and compiled but have not entered into Wikipedia) and relevant to the entrepreneurial aspect. Further comment on "lot more Singaporeans with much more notable achievements" has nothing to do with the lack of notability of article. Request review on personal motivation of chase78 against this article.

Deletion comment by FreeRangeFrog in incapability to find news on gnews; articles can be found directly via google of the newspaper sites in Singapore (example: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/technologynews/view/372488/1/.html , http://sgentrepreneurs.com/events/2009/02/05/bizasia-entrepreneurial-exchange-programme-2009/ , http://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Education/Story/A1Story20090126-117149.html , http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/SCE/achieves-news.asp#news2008-5 all sources which are new and not entered into the article as yet).

Further review of the article shows article vandalism as quoted:

Nicholas Chan was born on November 14, 1978 in Singapore then he moved to arizona and attended desert mountain high school where he was treated as an outkast because he looked different and couldn't speak english to Francis Chan and Susanna Kuan.

  • Closing admin Standard process followed, open longer than five days, all comments pointed to delete, will leave to the community to judge content. MBisanz talk 07:24, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse - the editor who initiated this DRV simply disagrees with the closure; no new evidence has been provided to justify overturning the article's deletion. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 14:47, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Closer didn't have many comments to go on despite (correctly) relisting it once. I'm not sure if anything would be gained by listing it again. Endorse deletion, with no prejudice against bringing this back to DRV if something new comes to light.—S Marshall Talk/Cont 17:55, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Juliancolton, justification on notability of article was given as above, including 3 new sample secondary reference evidence of relevance of Nicholas Chan as notable in the fields of enterprise and venture capital in Singapore. I can provide all new references directly in this DRV if required. Additionally, request advise on why article is not notable so that constructive editing can be done to refine article accordingly instead of being deleted even with present substantial factual research and justifications to article to date. Ncknight (talk) 18:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My recommendation is definitely presenting all the new sources; so a revised consensus would take these into account.Spring12 (talk) 18:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion. Nothing has been presented to show that the deletion process wasn't properly followed. The time for presenting lists of sources and arguments was in the AFD. Stifle (talk) 21:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's not fair, Stifle, people have a life outside of Wikipedia. Just because they weren't at the AFD at the time, doesn't mean additional information cannot be presented. In fact, if crucial details were omitted from the previous AFD, DRV is the course of action to take. - Mgm|(talk) 13:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those additional sources the nominator mentions are merely passing mentions and not the sort of detail required to contribute to someone's notability. - Mgm|(talk) 13:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Relist for another round of AFD. The original debate included mentions of unverifiable links, a comment of "poorly written," and mentions of the author's independence of the subject. I would have liked to see some national sources for this to meet Wikipedia standards, but I would need to see the original article in addition to this to provide a more accurate judgment of notability.Spring12 (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Mediacorp is the national broadcaster in Singapore, and Singapore Press Holdings is the national newspapers. All articles from these two are available selectively as they do not hold online archives for more than 7 days. All other articles sourced from the archives can be photocopied and scanned online should it be needed for verification. Ncknight (talk) 06:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This are the present cited sources for articles which I personally found in the Singapore National Library archives and online sources on Nicholas Chan as at 15 March 2009. Ncknight (talk) 14:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yadav, Surekha A. (10/01/2004) "Hard knocks within a sandbox", Today, Mediacorp
  • 9:00 News (03/29/2007), Dating agencies get funding to broaden services for singles, Channel U, Mediacorp
  • Singapore Tonight (03/29/2007), Dating agencies get funding to broaden services for singles, Channel News Asia, Mediacorp
  • 林佩碧, 四个"创意红娘" 获红线基金拔14万元 (03/30/2007) Lianhe Zaobao, p.15.
  • Ng, Kai Ling. (03/30/2007) "Need help to find a date? Call us". Straits Times Interactive Video News
  • Loh, Chee Kong. (03/30/2007) "Cupid just a click away". Today, Mediacorp
  • @1.45 (04/23/2007), Interview on Who Works Around You Pte Ltd, 938LIVE, Mediacorp Radio
  • Zhang, Cheryl (October 2008) "unsung heroes step into the limelight"

http://cherylzhang.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/revo-asia-15-citimex-fortis.pdf

  • Endorse deletion nothing wrong with process or decision, this is not AFD round 2. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This deletion review is meant to relook into the deletion of the article due to reasons put against notability of subject; the present request for review is on notability and relevance of the article, I appreciate your review on that. Thank you. Ncknight (talk) 05:30, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse deletion Looking over the above (new) sources I'm not finding anything other than him being quoted. Is there a RS or two that are at least largely about him? If so, I'd be happy to change. The man appears notable in a sense, but there just isn't anything to write about him from RSes that I can see. Hobit (talk) 17:24, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_March_14&oldid=1138435908"