Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Video Game Pianist

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The subject has received a significant amount of individual pieces of coverage in various sources, but there appears to be good-faith disagreement (even discounting some dubious SPA participation) over exactly whether the relevant notability guidelines are satisfied by in-depth coverage among the many passing references. Initial concerns over broken link references have broadly been solved, but there is overall no solid consensus. ~ mazca ^talk 19:57, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Video Game Pianist

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Video Game Pianist (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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I'm not actually 100% sure the article meets Wikipedia:Notability_(people). A decent number of the Ref links are broken and aren't high quality.

That said, it might still meet the threshold by virtue of some of those competitions, just not via the external links and references currently in article. Soni (talk) 03:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Soni (talk) 03:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Soni (talk) 03:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Soni (talk) 03:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Soni (talk) 03:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

• Delete Unnotable per nom. Only two or three good reliable sources in regards to his concerts. Lots of other unsourced WP:BLP statements, especially in the "personal life" and "classical music" sections. Google check also reveals little other sources. –eggofreason^{(talk · contribs)} 14:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

The ref links have been updated and are no longer broken. - Blueskies3000 1:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueskies3000 (talk • contribs)

• Keep as the reference links, that previously worked and then led to pages without content, are now working. Blueskies3000 (talk • contribs) 05:30, 22 August 2020 (UTC) — Blueskies3000 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep Twelve secondary sources have been added. Shmoobears (talk • contribs) 11:17, 22 August 2020 (UTC) — Shmoobears (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Participants involved old and new WP:SPA
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Amkgp 💬 19:27, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

• Comment Wondering why the title isn't "Martin Leung" any ideas??? MissiYasında&& (talk) 19:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment Agreed. If Kept, it should be renamed to Martin Leung. Soni (talk) 00:55, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Keep: I found another newspaper article: "Bigger was better: Regina Symphony Orchestra, with Martin Leung & the South Sask. Youth Orchestra" from The Regina-Leader Post in 2011. The article is entirely about Leung's performance, and background. I agree with the previous commenter that the Wikipedia article should be renamed Martin Leung. — Toughpigs (talk) 20:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: The general article is now in a worse state than when I nominated it, with a lot of BLP puffery being re-added without discussion. Some of the newspaper refs added might qualify for GNG, but they're mostly about a Secondary topic that also mention Leung. I'd request any closer to judge quality of the refs. Either way, the article needs severe nuking to meet WP's general standards, assuming it meets the Notability threshold. Soni (talk) 00:55, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Keep. I revised the citations and found plenty of eligible articles about the artist including New York Times, Wired, Los Angeles Times etc. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jul-08-et-video8-story.html

He was also found to win a few notable music awards and I added this information in the “Perfomances” section (at the end):

“Martin Leung has been a recipient of several music awards including first prize at the Cleveland Concerto Competition (2007), the Art of the Piano Liszt Competition in Cincinnati (2011), the USC Concerto Competition (2013), Zoltán Rozsnyai Memorial Prize at the LA International Liszt Competition, Division VII (2016).” It clearly makes him a notable musician. I added the new ones following this policy:

I agree with the deletion nominator that some of the citations are not very good and they should be fixed.

However, I don’t agree with this statement : “A decent number of the Ref links are broken and aren't high quality.” The broken/dead links themselves do not disqualify the Wikipedia page as most probably they were checked in the past and the page was qualified back then.

Here is the policy on that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Link_rot

My opinion is that the page is old, so some links have been expired or used lower standards at the time (for example, I didn’t know an anonymous IP could create the Wikipedia pages) and the issue of the page is clean-up and maintenance – definitely not deletion based on suggested notability issue.

P/S: If voted to keep the page, I suggest to move it to “Martin Leung” and clean-up/re-write some of its part. If you type his name on Wikipedia, it re-directs to his page.--Iockyrice (talk) 20:54, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Overall, 12 more eligible citations have been easily found related to the music festivals, concerts and notable media. It doesn't look like an issue to find more citations but the page definitely needs a good clean-up.--Iockyrice (talk) 21:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

• Delete as a non-notable person failing WP:GNG or more specific WP:NMUSICIAN with insufficient reliable independent in-depth sources. The article is a textbook WP:REFBOMB puffery with every possible mention of the person cited. But 80% of sources are just profiles and briefest of entries -- not significant coverage at all. Half the news are brief passing mentions in context of performances and do not focus on the person, including above [1]. Of the three more substantial sources, [2] is about a specific video and doesn't focus much on the person. [3] and [4] look okay, but that's only 2 GNG-compatible sources from local news, which should really be much more substantial. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 11:18, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
• Delete Possibly WP:TOOSOON. There is some minor coverage, announcements and whatnot but it doesn't reach WP:MUSICBIO, or WP:NMUSICIAN. Not enough to satisfy WP:BLPSOURCES. scope_creep^Talk 18:22, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
• Keep Well after reading the sources and page carefully, I concluded that it passes WP:GNG easily and passes WP:NMUSICIAN while it is different, and not even the case of TOOSOON because of notability in the area of expertise/practice and had been up for years. It may be weak before but now its way much better with sources and everything. JK.Kite (talk) 20:48, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.