Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Star of Christmas

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 14:55, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Star of Christmas[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This excessively long retelling of an animated series episode has been redirected by four different editors for lack of sourcing and demonstrated notability, yet keeps being reinstated by the same person without any improvements. I'd like to arrive at some assessment that sticks for once. My take is that this should be redirected to List of VeggieTales videos. Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:43, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:43, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:43, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - This lacks notability and should not exist as an article but can be appropriately covered in the list cited by Elmidae. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:56, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - No indication of notability other than as part of the series and poor sourcing means brief coverage as part of the list is appropriate. An additional attempt to discuss the issue with Ethancartoons/71.38.26.91 on their talk pages or the article's talk page would be nice, but here we are. - SummerPhD^v2.0 23:36, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. TV series' Christmas episodes are a specific television sub-genre with many such episodes receiving detailed write-ups (List of United States Christmas television episodes). This full-length article is certainly useful to those researching Christmas on TV and, with WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS of many other detailed Christmas episodes, there is no need to single out this episode for redirect and drastic reduction. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:48, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The problem identified with this article is that there is simply very little (if any) coverage in independent reliable sources -- clearly insufficient to write a reasonably detailed article. Yes, we can write detailed article about every episode of every TV show ever made based entirely on the primary source that might be useful in some way to someone at some point in the future. Similarly, we could have an article giving the coordinates and species of every tree in New York City or prices paid for various CDs on Ebay. But we don't. (As for anyone using this article for "research", I await the scholarly monograph discussing the work of such noted thespians as Unnamed England Boy, Ma Carrot, England Woman with Tan Colored Dress, and others who appear in this work as themselves, along with the noted performances by Bob the Tomato, Larry the Cucumber and Pa Grape. Percy Pea was clearly cheated from an Emmy nomination for Best Legume in a Supporting Role in a Musical or Comedy.) - SummerPhD^v2.0 17:08, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Individual episodes of TV series do indeed receive sparse coverage in independent reliable sources, nevertheless, various series, such as The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, Star Trek and a number of others have detailed episode articles for every single installment. It all depends upon the willingness of individual editors to perform the designated task.

A few years ago, individual films were being submitted for deletion on the basis of not being sufficiently notable. Now, virtually all films are considered sufficiently notable to have an entry in Wikipedia. On the same basis, at some point in the future, since Wikipedia has unlimited space, we may indeed have a "detailed article about every episode of every TV show ever made".

As for comparisons with creation of lists focusing on other frames of reference, such as tree coordinates or "prices paid for various CDs on Ebay", it all depends on consensus. Since consensus already exists regarding films and TV series, tweaking detail of coverage emerges from discussions such as this.

Each feature film and each episode of TV series brings its own viewpoint and many or most of those, especially children's series, may be vulnerable to the reductio ad absurdum put forth by those who would "await the scholarly monograph discussing the work of such noted thespians as Unnamed England Boy..." In this case, however, I invite those interested to glance at VeggieTales#Reception and awards to see that this series is considered as one of the most original of its kind. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:38, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't read through the wall of text above but have read the first sentence to which I respond that WP:NEPISODE details how an individual episode can establish notability. For some shows there is enough critical analysis of each episode that it's true each of these episodes is notable. For most TV, even successful TV, each episode is not notable only some larger chunk of the show is notable. That's why in this case the redirect is appropriate. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:58, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I decided not to read this brief response to the end after noticing that the redlink WP:NEPISODE has failed to provide any guidance. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:11, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Spinner sorry about that. Let's try WP:EPISODE. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 00:20, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Barkeep49 I appreciate the prompt creation of the redirect which does indeed link to valuable guidance. However, such general guidelines may not take into account the specifics of each circumstance. Ultimately, consensus will decide the fate of individual entries such as this one. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:43, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep--notable coverage: link 1, link 2, link 3, and link 4.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 01:01, 24 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per the reliable sources reviews identified above such as DVD Talk and Jesus Freak Hideout which is a reliable source for christian music in WikiProject Music, passes WP:GNG thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 20:01, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 02:45, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.