Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Magical Moment

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:01, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Magical Moment[edit]

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Article is about a collection of tweets published as a book. The only cited source is the blog of the tweeter. A Google search turned up only Wiki mirrors and three booksellers, one of which turns out not to have the book available. There is essentially no coverage of the book, anywhere. Donald Albury 22:16, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ This almost looks like a hoax. There is no coverage of the book in RS. Oaktree b (talk) 22:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Just to be sure, I ran the same searches and found no RS coverage. This video from the "Paulo Coelho Forum" YouTube channel is almost a parody of the self-help genre, but unfortunately the book does not appear to be a hoax. Just eminently non-notable :/ Generalrelative (talk) 23:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Echoing everyone above. I almost wonder if Coelho isn't even aware this book ever existed. -- asilvering (talk) 01:21, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Nothing to add, it seems obviously not notable due to lack of RS. Doug Weller talk 07:31, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. As well as everything else, the article was started by Coelho's own publicity team and has remained virtually untouched since, so WP:PROMO applies here too. Sweetpool50 (talk) 09:45, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Looks like the book does actually exist. Using the title in Korea, I was able to find it in Google Books, where I also found the ISBN. Using that, I was able to find listings in both Amazon and WorldCat, complete with listings in various libraries. The Google Book view shows that it is official merch (so to speak) of the author. So now it's just a question of whether or not there's coverage. It looks like the book was likely never released in English, only Korean, so if any coverage exists it's going to be in that language. I'll see what I can find. Not fluent in Korean, but I am fluent in Google Translate, so there's that. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 17:20, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For whatever reason my computer does not want to open any websites that originated in Korea. It's sometimes picky, probably firewall related. I did find a few hits in Google News, but no telling if they're actually usable. Of note is that they do seem to be pretty sparse. Here are the results, if anyone can get them to come up for you. I ran the previews and it looks like one is a merchant site, but another mentions that the book was a bestseller, but I can't tell more than that. I'm going to ask at the Korea WP if any of them can run a search to see what they can find. Offhand leaning towards probably non-notable since the previews otherwise didn't look very promising, but I'd like a search in Korean first. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 17:30, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep. Related discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea#Search_in_Korean?. Short paragraph. Short paragraph. A dedicated if short-ish article/review. A very short paragraph. A short paragraph. Another dedicated f shortish article/review. With the two short-ish review, mimimum standard for GNG/NBOOK seems to be met. Remember about SYSTEMICBIAS, folks, and the need to do BEFOREs in non-English languages! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:03, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS. I'll ping the editors above who expressed concern about this being a likely hoax: @Oaktree b @Generalrelative @Asilvering @Doug Weller

PPS. Regarding the reliability of the sources cited, the two longer reviews were published in ko:디지털타임스 and Kukmin Ilbo. Two of the shorter mentions come from The Dong-a Ilbo. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:07, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think you may have misunderstood us? I don't see anyone here saying that this is "a likely hoax". -- asilvering (talk) 02:23, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, I did, way up top. The book image looked like a bad photoshop cover and I couldn't find an isbn. It seems I've been proven wrong. Oaktree b (talk) 02:33, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep based on the Korean language sources described; not the best, but it seems the book exists and has some (minimal) critical notice. To be fair, the market for Korean books is small to begin with, so I don't expect to find a dozen reviews. Oaktree b (talk) 02:34, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ per Asilvering. This seems to be a coffee-table book by a person in Korea based on Cuelho's tweets, not a book by Cuelho as is implied. The sources Piotrus provides aren't particularly convincing, and suffer from the same problem as the article: they are about Cuelho rather than the book. Walt Yoder (talk) 03:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Lenoresm's source is more convincing, and after Doug Weller's edits the article is no longer promotional. Striking my vote - editors more familiar with the Korean media will have to decide this. Walt Yoder (talk) 15:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I found this Kukmin Ilbo article about the publication of Coelho's Maktub in Korean, which notes that Magic Moment sold over 200,000 copies in Asia. For anyone new to looking up news in Korean, here's a link to a search for the book on Naver News, which is Korean news aggregator. (And here's the same link sorted by oldest articles, in case that's helpful.) There are many mentions of the book being on the Korean Publishers Association's best sellers list throughout 2013. Lenoresm (talk) 04:39, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Week keep I'm convinced but I've also gutted the article, if anyone wants to restore, well, the material I removed was unsourced or sourced to Cuelho. I found a Phd thesis mentioning the illustrator and added that. But surely what we need is an article on Cuelho mentioning this? Doug Weller talk 13:37, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is there an article about this book on the Korean WP? As its claim to notability is based on its reception in Korea, the existance of an article about it on the Korean WP might help here. (Understood that the Korean WP does not necessarily have the same standards for creating an article as we do.) - Donald Albury 17:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, but it is listed as a best seller in the article List of 2013 bestsellers in South Korea. :3 F4U (they /it) 07:20, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm heartened by the article Lenoresm found that (at least in google-translate-ese) says Coehlo "commissioned" it, but I still don't see any reason to keep this as a standalone article. All we appear to be able to say about it is that it exists and it sold over 200k copies; that's all the coverage is talking about, and it's not enough to build much of anything. The article is not, realistically, going to get any longer than it is at present. I'm not against stubs, but I don't see the purpose of this one - the chances that someone would be trying to find this book by searching Wikipedia for "The Magical Moment" seems slim-to-none, and they won't learn anything once they get there anyway. This would be more useful as a single sentence on Coelho's article, and as evidence for notability of the illustrator - who doesn't appear to have an article yet. -- asilvering (talk) 19:22, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Asilvering For the record, I think the Korean name of the illustrator is ko:황중환. What I read in the reviews suggests he may be notable indeed, but Korean Wikipedia doesn't have an article on him yet (a copyvio for someone with that name was deleted in 2009). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:32, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Another review in the Seoul Shinmun and a review in Seoul Culture Today. At bare minimum, it exceeds WP:NBOOK and there is more than enough content to expand the article out from a stub. :3 F4U (they /it) 07:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: per above: Another review in the Seoul Shinmun and a review in Seoul Culture Today. I think these two put it over the line, so I didn't bother looking for more because this was enough for GNG. // Timothy :: talk 11:20, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.