Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swiss UMEF University

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA). MBisanz ^talk 11:26, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Swiss UMEF University[edit]

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99% of the sources provided for this article do / did not mention the subject once. None of the sources provided are from books, magazines, newspapers, or other reliable sources. The one document linked as a source that actually does mention the university is a single PDF page noting that the university is a candidate for accreditation somewhere. Clearly fails WP:GNG. Darouet (talk) 19:29, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG. I've been looking at this article too, and this is nothing but a PR piece for a dubious institution. As far I can tell this is not an accredited school. The verifiable sources are generally for claims that don't concern the "school" (e.g., what a particular certification or group is) and the claims that do relate to UMEF directly are either unsourced or fail verification. For example, the claim that UMEF was a part of the voluntary United Nations Global Compact not only failed verification, but it turned out that UMEF had been expelled. The only way this institution might be notable is in the negative sense. If there are sufficient sources mentioning it as an unaccredited institution, or scam, or degree mill, or whatever it happens to be, an article might be justified. Meters (talk) 20:43, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as nominator. I tried to search for information on this university and found nothing in google books, and virtually nothing on google news. This article, [1], suggests that the University has no legal or educational standing in Switzerland. This page, once listed as a source for the article, states that the UN terminated a partnership with UMEF "due to failure to communicate progress." -Darouet (talk) 21:27, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and the reason would be that it does exist as an institution with a physical location, and is getting students shunted in its direction via places like [2]. There are hundreds of students in Afghanistan who have the impression that they have a degree from Swiss UMEF University via Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA) and indeed that university lists itself as a subsidiary of the Swiss UMEF University group. I hope I've gotten the formatting right for this. Bizetshine (talk) 18:11, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Bizetshine: the link you've provided - [3] - returns a "page not found" notice and contains no information about UMEF. Also, it is important to explain why an article should or should not be written using Wikipedia's editorial guidelines, available here: WP:GNG. Those guidelines are clear that reliable sources must exist that describe the subject of the article, in some detail (not simply cursory mentions). -Darouet (talk) 18:30, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, link fixed, and I don't believe that's a cursory mention. News from within Afghanistan: <http://bakhtarnews.com.af/eng/tech/item/23270-swiss-umef-university-of-afghanistan-churns-out-first-batch-of-mba-graduates.html?tmpl=component&print=1>Bizetshine (talk) 18:55, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of those refs shows the existence of UMEF as an accredited Swiss University. This AFD is not about the Afghan offshoot. I have tidied up some of the refs and claims in the article. UMEF is indeed qualified under EduQua, but that is only as an adult continuing education facility. This appears to be an actual school of some sort, albeit unaccredited (not just an online degree mill) but we need some significant independent coverage of UMEF to show that it is notable. Meters (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that it's notable as the parent organization of the Kabul school and its notoriety because of that, and its role in handing out actual degrees to many people, even if the offshoot is in Afghanistan. The reason Dunya was established was because there was a fancy European university backing it. If Dunya is allowed (it's recognized by the Ministry of Higher Education there) it's rational to have information about the organization it's a part of. Not to mention informative to the students who find they've been burned.Bizetshine (talk) 21:36, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again, "we need some significant independent coverage of UMEF to show that it is notable." If you think it is notable because of its involvement with the creation of some other accredited school then add the material to the article with reliable sources. There is no mention of this supposed connection to a school in Afghanistan in this article. The article, as it stands, simply does not show the notability of the school. Meters (talk) 00:10, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So: if I add that material you'll support keeping. A good tip and I will add it. Just noticed now that it's also Accreditation Service for International Colleges accredited, so I added that.Bizetshine (talk) 17:38, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Don't put words in my mouth. I did not say I would support keeping this article if you added sources. I will evaluate any new sources you add. If they are reliable, independent sources that demonstrate notability I will reconsider. Meters (talk) 20:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dunya. Based on the available information, it is s shell company with no actual existence as a university. If it has been a instituion of convenience for other colleges than Dunya, then it would be best made a separate article, but I see no evidence of that so far. It does seem to be essentiallya shell institution, but there is real existence. DGG ( talk ) 02:16, 19 February 2017 (UTC) .[reply]
- We can redirect it for now, but Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA) hardly even qualifies as a stub. The majority of the material in the article before I removed it was actually about UMEF. The only independent source for the existence of the school is in Persian so I can't verify it. Meters (talk) 20:20, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - They're separate institutions run by the same guy. The Swiss one is now accredited via ASIC, the Afghan one via IACBE, as noted in each article. The deal is that a guy purchases a Swiss diploma mill and on the strength of it gets permission to start a university in Afghanistan, where the names are used interchangeably. The formal title at the Ministry of Higher Education in Afghanistan is Dunya, but when you go to graduation ceremonies you get a diploma from both Dunya and UMEF, and Dunya (and the media) calls itself Dunya or UMEF as the mood strikes. It's Afghanistan and documentation isn't the best. The article wasn't about UMEF, it was about Dunya in Kabul because there is no UMEF. Bizetshine (talk) 20:15, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kurykh (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, new comment here then, and I'll give a narrative just to say what's going on (and not as gospel or intent to say what should be in the articles, just to clarify what all this material is). Swiss UMEF University was once a small-time diploma mill unworthy of mention except to whatever the Better Business Bureau in Switzerland might be. A man from Afghanistan bought it, and then it started to bug the Afghan embassy to set up a university in Afghanistan. The background is in the Kabul Times article above. The effort succeeds, establishing Dunya University of Afghanistan (DUA) thus guaranteeing the Genevan UMEF a sort of notability (not necessarily Wikipedia notability): it's the parent organization of a legitimate higher education institution in Afghanistan. When students graduate, they get diplomas from Dunya and UMEF, as in their grad video on YouTube (note the presence of UMEF and Dunya microphones on the lectern: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0f5iWnc_A>). The government in Afghanistan (not to mention the student body), however, is eventually made aware that Swiss UMEF University is in fact producing unrecognized paper instead of real degrees (though they do have real offices and probably still have their hostel). The Swiss institution is then forced to shop for accreditation, finding it via Accreditation Service for International Colleges just this month, which provides a much stronger case for Wikipedia notability, as for unaccountable reasons ASIC remains a recognized accrediting body in the UK. There's some relevant material on what ASIC has been up to on its Wikipedia entry. So: the notability of UMEF IMO is that it is the parent body of recognized educational operations, and is accredited on its own at the Swiss address by a recognized if sketchy body out of the UK. References for all of this have been given, but it tends to get erased by UMEF/Dunya partisans who would rather see an ad. Bizetshine (talk) 20:52, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Meters, Bizetshine, Kurykh, and DGG: I have not really evaluated sufficiently whether Dunya deserves its own article. In principle, if it meets WP:GNG, I do not object to mentioning UMEF there with a sentence or two. -Darouet (talk) 21:38, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have no problem with a short mention of UMEF in Dunya, but this discussion is off topic for an AFD on UMEF. By the way, User:Mean as custard and I were the ones who removed the majority of the UMEF material from the Dunya article, and it is inappropriate to characterize either of us as partisans. An article about Dunya should not consist mainly of material about UMEF. Meters (talk) 21:47, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There are more people who have had a hand in the article than the people here. I'm happy to see most of the UMEF material in the Dunya article go because the function was clearly to advertise. Bizetshine (talk) 00:23, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This sort of situation has arisen before. Swiss law seems to permit this sort of manipulation. (other countries also, but Switzerland sounds eminently respectable and so it's often chosen--here we've seen so many cases that, unlike the naive students, we're immediately suspicious) My personal view is that in these cases we owe an obligation to the public. We're an extremely well known international source of information that at least tries to be reliable, and the fact that an operation is in some way dishonest should be a reason for inclusion in cases of doubt, and for sufficiently detailed coverage to make the situation clear. DGG ( talk ) 02:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 16:46, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 16:46, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Afghanistan-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 16:46, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 ^{TT me} 16:01, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 03:03, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.