Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/StreetRunner

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The last "keep" makes no argument, and one of the other two is qualified as "weak". Sandstein 20:00, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

StreetRunner[edit]

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COI on the article moots the possibility of PROD. As with most producers, this fails WP:NMUSIC - the subject is at best a single-track producer. The albums listed in the article that won (or were nominated for) "Best Album" Grammys were won by the recording artist, not the producer (despite what the Lil Wayne fansite interview claims). If such awards were won by producers, there would have been literally 12-15 awards per album, and they would be listed as recipients. We do not use discogs.com as a reliable source. There is not one reliable source given that mentions the article subject by name. MSJapan (talk) 00:20, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:57, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete. This article has issues due to a COI editor reverting to their preferred bad version, but AfD is not cleanup so I will try to ignore that. The bigger problem is the lack of sourcing (though there are now a few weak sources) and the attempt to build up notability by association with notable acts. As to the first, the discography did not even have any source until today and now it has an unacceptable one (Discogs is user-editable). The other sources don't confer notability either; the subject has not won Grammy awards or produced platinum-selling albums, but only worked as a track editor on albums that did earn such honors. As to the second, it seems like a lot of vapor to me, which is why the COI editor added so much of it. A well-sourced article on a notable music producer will look more like the one for Rick Rubin and not like this one. I am perfectly willing to change my opinion subject to the demonstration of better sources for a better claim of notability. 64.105.98.115 (talk) 02:15, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ -- Changed to Weak keep but needs work. Old text: First, Wikipedia is wp:NOTCV so this is not a place to list every recording the artist worked on. Someone has mis-understood that this isn't a place for personal web page. Next, I have found this, which is a interview, and I can see that he is given credit for his work on music download/listening sites, like Vibe, Hot New Hip Hop, HipHoppyRo. He is clearly a name in the hip hop world. The negatives are that the hiphop world doesn't do a lot of "journalism"-type writing that we can use as sources, and that whoever it is who has been the main editor on this article isn't doing the best that could be done for the subject. Unless someone with more knowledge of the topic can provide sourcing, this needs to be deleted, but without prejudice. Policy-wise, it does not meet GNG, and does not meet WP:MUSICIAN. LaMona (talk) 16:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Does not meet GNG, and does not meet WP:MUSICIAN. His name appears in no grammy reporting sites - although he may be one of a dozen producers that contributed to songs that have won. This is clearly a puff piece by his manager (declared connected contributor). Toddst1 (talk) 19:56, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The page needs major cleanup, but he is clearly a notable hip hop producer. Whether or not he has been nominated for or won a Grammy (some sites say he has, like MTV News and Stacks magazine), he has produced tracks for Eminem, Lil Wayne, Ludacris, 2 Chainz, etc. He's a little tricky to Google but I see him featured on hip hop sites like Vibe.com, XXL magazine and Hip Hop DX, for starters.--Bernie44 (talk) 23:52, 3 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, User:Bernie44. There's an interesting exchange in the MTV link about who "gets" a grammy:

Streetrunner: The thing about trophies is that you have to be a part of 50% of the project in order to get a physical trophy. So, I would have had to produce half of Tha Carter III, and then I would have gotten the trophy. You get the trophy if you get a single, or you're involved in 50% of a record that wins, but if you're just part of an album, you just get certificates.
Well, that's not a bad consolation.
Streetrunner: You still get the Grammy title, though [laughs].

This tells me that as producer one does indeed "win a Grammy" in that you are recognized when the album or single wins. So he is a "grammy-winning" producer. That's enough for me to change my !vote, and I'm glad you came in and confirmed his status. There still aren't traditional sources, but as I said I don't think the hip hop world produces them. Some of us (older folks) could use an essay on evaluating hip hop and indie music, if anyone could provide that. LaMona (talk) 17:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

However, neither the name StreetRunner nor his real name, Nicholas Warwar, appear as winners in a search on the Grammy site. So I'm going with "weak keep" but would love to have clarity on who can declare themselves a "Grammy Award-winner". LaMona (talk) 18:05, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As a minimum requirement, I would suggest being named on the Grammy site. DGG ( talk ) 05:40, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix ^(talk) 03:39, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There's little in the article except a discography of projects which which this person has been associated in some capacity. If the Grammy site said he won a Grammy, that would indicate notability based on a WP:RS. But neither "Warwar" nor "Streetrunner" gets a hit in the Grammy database.[1]. Fails WP:MUSICIAN. John Nagle (talk) 21:13, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The coverage in reliable sources is almost non-existent. I do see coverage in certain hip-hop websites - I doubt these pass our RS requirements (editorial process). I tried looking for the grammy and at least a search here doesn't show up anything. If the subject's name is not there, I am not going to believe the fact that they were credited for a Grammy. Accordingly, I don't think it has any other claims to pass WP:MUSICBIO either. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 13:57, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If we're using the grammy certificate as proof of notability, I'd at least like confirmation from a proper source rather than him saying that on MTV. We can't trust that source surely? I've seen it countless times before - articles COI/SPA/OWNed by the 'artists' - the backroom staff - producers, mixers etc, wiki is crawling with it, they all jump in all guns blazing with the 'grammy nominated' or 'grammy award winning' statement and when you dig deeper, they were one of 1,743 personnel on the winning album. Until I see it verified from the organisation themselves or a highly trustworthy source, I'd inclined to err on the side of chancers riding the coat-tails. Although the extended discography pains me for so many reasons, and I started the COI notice, I do think there's a fundamental flaw in the notability process for support staff like this. A failed girl group who once got a single to #17 in the Dutch national charts is entitled to an article or a cricketer who played one match for Warwickshire can similarly get an article, but a producer of this calibre (if what we read is true) seems considerably more notable yet has to jump through endless hoops to get verified. If this wasn't about judging against notability criteria but 'going with the gut', I'd vote keep. Rayman60 (talk) 00:37, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Based on the sources out there, I would probably say Streetrunner should not be referred to as a Grammy winner, despite the fact that I don't see why someone in the public eye would make that up. But either way, he is the sole producer on many songs by high-profile hip hop artists, which definitely makes him notable. Whether or not he as an individual has been nominated for a Grammy is not the be-all and end-all to prove his notability.--Bernie44 (talk) 14:03, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Nagle and Lemongiel1942 fails WP:V . Grammy database does not show him and fails WP:MUSICBIO.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:25, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – but it is in need of MAJOR cleanup. MB298 (talk) 19:27, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you can explain why keep per WP:DISCUSSAFD? This is WP:NOTAVOTE and your comment is likely to be discarded without any supporting reasons. Toddst1 (talk) 19:38, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.