Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spanish Grand Prix (disambiguation)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The article was expanded so WP:2DABS no longer applied, but there was no further substantial comment. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 14:09, 2 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish Grand Prix (disambiguation)[edit]

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Disambiguation not required per WP:2DABS. Primary topic (Spanish Grand Prix) has hatnote to only other use (Spanish motorcycle Grand Prix). De-PRODded by User:Patar knight with comment "since both of these Grand Prixs occur yearly, it's reasonable for someone to expect to find a list of Grand Prixs at this title". Whilst it is true that both of these Grand Prixs occur yearly, that is not a reason to have an unrequired, orphan, disambiguation page. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:54, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 11:12, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(Speedily) delete per nom. Straightforward case of 2DABS, with a clearcut primary topic. Torturously circuitous to have a hatnote in Spanish Grand Prix to the dab page when one to the motorcycle version would save time. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:26, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Both the nom, which you cited in your !vote, and the actual Spanish Grand Prix page make it clear that the primary topic article's hatnote goes to the motorcycle grand prix event. This "torturously circuitous" hatnote scenario you're describing in your !vote doesn't exist.---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:38, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. People who search for one of the two Spanish grand prixs will know enough about Grand Prix events to know that they are annual and that each annual iteration can reasonably just be called the "Spanish Grand Prix". ~~We don't have an articles for each iteration of either Grand Prix, but readers shouldn't be expected to be familiar with what articles exist and don't exist on Wikipedia.~~ (The tables were misleading, and it turns out we do have articles on most iterations of both Grand Prixs, which makes the DAB even more justified. 05:45, 17 September 2017 (UTC)) This search would also conserve data for users who want to find the motorcycle Grand Prix, which does not show up when merely searching "Spanish Grand Prix" via the search box. WP:2DABS does not proscribe all 2DAB pages, and is only a guideline. It also does not say anything about this scenario, where a DAB page with two entries exists but is not linked from the primary topic's article, which already has a hatnote to the secondary meaning. Overall, it seems useful at least in this scenario to have a DAB page, even if unlinked. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:35, 17 September 2017 (UTC)(edited 03:55, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- A quick head count at the most recent discussion on 2DABs at WT:DAB ended up, judging from a quick count with 19-14 in support of keeping at least some 2DABs with primary topics. Some of the oppose !votes (at least 2) also opposed on the basis that not all 2DABs with a primary topic were useful while admitting that some were, so a blanket allowance was not their prefered choice. And if I had to !vote now, would switch to the support column. So what the consensus is for deleting 2DABs with a primary topic is at best unclear, possibly in favour of keeping some of them. At the very least, "per 2DABs" should not be the sole reason for deleting this page and similar pages. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 05:28, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by nominator: that discussion was not closed (and 19-14 feels more like no consensus, ie keep the status quo). A more recent discussion and test case was at: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Banco de Ponce (disambiguation). Deleting WP:2DABS pages is entirely within WP guidance, and this one is nothing special. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:10, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reading through the oppose !votes in more depth, four !votes explicitly support keeping 2DABs if they have useful elements besides the main entries (a position also taken by many of the support !votes), one !vote supports that implicitly, and several others seem primarily motivated by an objection against deleting useless 2DABs. So counting my own switched !vote, that seems like at least a 25-8 consensus in keeping 2DABs if they have other useful elements. This is the case here, since I've added the figure skating event with a similar name to a see also section, and a links to the category that quickly gets readers to the individual F1 and motorcycle events as an indented bullet under the main entry as an alternative to adding every single Spanish Grand Prix article onto the DAB.

Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) only listed the bank and its former HQ building. Because of the geographic constraints and the fact that it's a foreign language, proper noun, there were no other pages that could plausibly be added as an entry or in a "See also" section. It's an extreme case that's not representative of the utility of most 2DABs. Here, there's the two events, each individual event which could all be valid entries, the figure skating event in the "See also", and potential expansion via other Spanish grand prix events (e.g. [1] [2]). One can support deleting Banco de Ponce (disambiguation) as a complete, unexpandable, and unlikely to be searched for 2DAB, while also believing that a 2DAB page like this one is useful. No one is arguing that the DAB policy disallows deleting 2DABs. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 07:35, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. There is a primary topic, and only one other minor topic with the name. A hatnote at the primary topic bypasses the need for a disambiguation, rendering it useless. -- Tavix ^(talk) 14:00, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per all comments so far. There are cases where a 2DAB may be helpful, but this is clearly not one of them. —swpb^T 14:43, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm leaning keep, but I have never dealt with 2Dabs before, so am keeping mum. L3X1 (distænt write) 02:15, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Two more entries have been added, so WP:2DABS no longer applies. Relisting to see if those who argued to delete will still argue to delete now that it has the additional entries.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- RoySmith (talk) 22:16, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. "Spain Grand Prix" and "Junior Grand Prix in Spain" are partial matches only. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:22, 25 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.