Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rafael of Orléans-Braganza

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to House of Orléans-Braganza. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:34, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rafael of Orléans-Braganza[edit]

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Not notable.

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 19:25, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 19:25, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Case for deletion Members of the former Imperial House of Brazil, which was deposed in 1889, are not inherently notable, we have a recent precedent at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antônio de Orléans e Bragança. This looks like an example of a significant amount of "deposed monarchy cruft" on Wikipedia, treating deposed royal/imperial families as if they were still reigning. Sourcing looks trivial, and includes at least one dead link. The article claims that is expected that he will assert one of two claims to the Brazilian throne, but see WP:CRYSTAL. PatGallacher (talk) 19:27, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the subject has been profiled by one of Brazil's largest newspapers, O Estado de S. Paulo, and also by the most widely circulated German-language newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, I am fairly convinced that we should keep this one. He obviously takes his role as "prince" very seriously and it is not really WP:CRYSTAL to state that he is preparing to assume the claim. That is, after all, what the sources say. Surtsicna (talk) 21:39, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Sources about him appear once in a blue moon. He may take his role as "prince" very seriously, but the problem is that monarchist movements are very weak in Brazil, nobody (except very few monarchists) take it seriously. 1993 Brazilian constitutional referendum is an example of how weak monarchist movements are in Brazil. Almost nobody knows who he is because after more than 100 years that the throne does not exist, all these Brazilian princes have become basically normal people. They are not even close to celebrities in Brazil. Bolhones (talk) 18:40, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I think the sourcing (despite my just removing the scribd and blog refs) is just barely enough for general notability. However, I am strongly against including the Styles template, and the Princes of Orléans-Braganza navbox needs to be renamed to reflect these are titles in pretense for all but the first generation. JoelleJay (talk) 18:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Being the next-in-line to the Brazilian throne is a strong reason for maintaining the article. Of course, it is not "as if they were still reigning", but it still is a subject worth Wikipedia information. The only reason for deletion could be that Prince Rafael is not presently the next-in-line but the third; however, he is the first in his generation, so deleting now the article and publishing it again in some time would be useless. Vadsf 95.235.88.91 (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- There is the serious possibility that he will outlive his father and his two uncles, but we don't know that yet. That is a weak argument for creating an article, that we might have to do some years in the future. At lot could have happened then, he might decide to renounce his claim to the Brazilian throne, or people might not care. PatGallacher (talk) 01:28, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the sourcing is not enough to keep an article on someone without any actual claim to notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I’m somewhat lost here, on whether the debate is on him being notable enough or whether his claim to be a prince is recognized. On both cases, it shows again how little people know about Brazil and how little they try to at least carry out a bit of research before commenting. There is a an article about Rafael on G1 (the internet news website of Globo, the largest media conglomerate in Brazil), in 2016. Link In the same year, he was mentioned in another article by The Wall Street Journal. Link Another article about him, now by the Correio Braziliense. Link. Another one at UOL: Link. He’s briefly mentioned in this article by Folha de São Paulo, Brazil’s largest newspaper. Link He appears in a more recent article about his father’s health in O Globo Link The Wikipedia article about him is a stub, but he’s noteworthy, clearly. --Lecen (talk) 21:46, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:BEFORE and WP:ODD. There's plenty of possible sources as noted, and this is exactly the weird article that ends up on Wikipedia. I'm open to a merger with a related article. Bearian (talk) 19:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 10:00, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per previous arguments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:300:B610:40F8:9318:5ED5:A6C4 (talk) 16:44, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete our merge to House of Orléans-Braganza. Monarchy was abolished from Brazil in 1889, and there are no signs of return. He is presented as being in the line of succession of a throne that does not exist any more (for more than 100 years), which means almost nothing nowadays: Zero political power. In 1993 people voted the possibility of changing the form and system of Government in Brazil to Monarchy or Parlamentarism and the result was that the vast majority of Brazilians did not want to change them that after more than 100 years of Republican Democracy. There are some sources about the "royal family", but several Newspaper News receive more coverage than any news about any member of the "Brazilian Royal Family". Once in a blue moon there is a news about some of them, which is far from significant. In Portuguese Wikipedia, several members in the line of succession of House of Orléans-Braganza were deleted, for instance 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (AFDs in Portuguese Wikipedia). Bolhones (talk) 13:56, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the sourcing just isn't there for the article to be notable and the line of succession to the throne that the person might have inherited does not exist anymore anyway. Which seems to be the main or only thing that would justify the article. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and merge to House of Orléans-Braganza. Heck, this isn't even the heir to a long-defunct throne, but one of several "claimants." There are certainly title-worshipers on Wikipedia, but fanboyism doesn't set aside the provisions of the GNG and WP:BIO. Ravenswing 22:33, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.