Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/My Evaline

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was MERGE into Weezer (The Blue Album) and recast as a redirect to that article. It's hard to break this down into raw vote totals, as everyone had something different and cogent to say. I come up with (including the nominator): 1 Keep, 2 Delete, 3 Merge of various types (including 1 Merge or Keep), 1 Neutral (the article creator, oringally a Keep but later amended by the statement "I don't care anymore whether or not you delete My Evaline." The arguments are about even, although it true that as pointed out the article does not appear to meet Wikipedia:Notability (songs), but that is only a proposed guideline. The largest single category of comments seems to be Merge, so that's the close. Herostratus 14:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

My Evaline

Contested prod. Basically, this is your classic case of not everything that a notable band (Weezer) does being notable in and of itself. We're dealing here with a 44sec track which is available according to the article on one version of their debut album and (mistitled) on one version of one single. I don't see notability anywhere there. BigHaz 23:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Let me further explain...

I feel this song is important because it shows another side of the band. Instead of a rock song they did a barbershop song. this particular B-side is much more notable because it shows Weezer doing something that isn't their usual sound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blinkchillie90 (talk • contribs)

True enough, but it doesn't satisfy WP:MUSIC/SONG that I can see. The fact that the song was not even released as a single in its own right is the major hurdle. Perhaps a line or two on the article about the album? BigHaz 23:26, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

"Perhaps a line or two on the article about the album?" I'm not sure what you mean by this sentence. Could you please reword — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blinkchillie90 (talk • contribs)

The album that the song is from has an article. What I'm suggesting is that you add into that article a sentence or two about this song and the fact that it "shows another side of the band". That way, the information will be there for the world to see. On its own, this song is not notable. Also, please sign your posts. BigHaz 23:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey this is blinkchillie90 again. I guess i could add it to that particular article. Just give me some time before you delete this article so i copy and paste some of the stuff I have typed on this one over to the other article. Also I don't know how to sign my posts. I have also noticed that you have also put the nomination for deletion on some of the other song articles for weezer. I understand that you feel a song article is only needed for Singles. But i disagree. I want some time to edit those articles to make those wiki-worthy. I actually was planning on just setting up the format today (sept 1) and tomorrow doing some work on them. You can delete the songs for the deluxe edition such as "Susanne," "Mykel and Carli" and "my Evaline." But I feel the regular blue album songs are important and need articles. These songs are considered Weezer Classics. I know tons of unique and important information on those songs.

So in conclusion I ask you to take those articles off the nominated for deletion list. So i can have some time to edit it. I mean I just put up the song articles today. I havent even had a chance to really do anything to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blinkchillie90 (talk • contribs)

To sign your posts, just use the "tilde" key (~) four times. That will expand out to your username and the time that you typed the post. As far as time goes, an AfD remains open for 5 days in the general course of events, so that should be enough time. If you're concerned that it won't be, you might want to copy and paste the text of this article to a file on your computer so that you can add it later on when you get the chance. The same timeframe (5 days) is used for any other template which I've added, so you have that long to demonstrate the notability of the song - and that goes for any song, whether it was on the regular album or the deluxe edition. The thing is, though, that the general consensus has historically been that it's only singles and a handful of very important album tracks that get their own articles, so you'll need to show that the tracks on the regular blue album are sufficiently important. I'm not saying that they aren't, they may well be, but going on their current articles, they don't appear to be. BigHaz 00:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm also (now) nominating Only In Dreams, Mykel and Carli and The World has Turned and Left Me Here for much the same reason as the above rationale. All three were deprodded by User:Kappa on the grounds that they were songs by a notable band, which is fair enough but is not in itself a reason for notability of the song (this is an argument which was advanced recently in an AfD regarding a Weird Al song, but I can't find the link to it). BigHaz 01:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• Merge or keep songs by notable bands. It's depressing that someone would want to eradicate the fact that their tried a whole new genre of music. Kappa 01:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

So every song by a notable band is automatically notable? BigHaz 01:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

See, for example, the final comment here. Are any of these songs "particularly notable in their own right"? BigHaz 01:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

My Evaline is notable in its own right as Blinkchillie90 has explained. Apart from that, any song by a notable band is something wikipedia users should be able to read about, and thus not a candidate for deletion, although album tracks are certainly mergeable. Kappa 02:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. A 44 second song available on one edition of an album (notable as the album may be) and one release of a single (notable as the A-side of the single may be) by any given band (notable as the band may be), even if it shows the band exploring a different style to that which they're known for performing doesn't sound notable to me. It would be notable if Weezer then became a barbershop act, but that didn't happen. The information on the other songs I've bundled with this one is able to be read about in the article on the album. The only difference between the tracklisting there and the article here is that the article is written in a sentence. BigHaz 02:43, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm back! BigHaz I understand everything you're saying. you must realize something all these songs are considered extremely important in the world of Weezer. "Only in dreams" and "the world has turned and left me here" are considered weezer classics. When fans go to see them in concert they hope they play a large abundant of Blue Album songs. My original intention was to expand the page of one of my favorite albums. I wanted to expand the songs. I wasn't going to do that all in a day. If you look at other album pages such as Dark side of the moon you'll notice that all the tracks have thier own page. in the world of weezer, the Blue Album is considered their "magnum opus." Just like people consider Dark side of the moon is Pink Floyd's magnum opus I felt you nominated everything for deletion way too early before anything could be done to them. (something I have explained before) It was unfair to nominate for deletion. You should've checked the dates the pages were added. I feel if the pages had been up for a few monthes but were still a 1 sentence article then they are appropriate for nomination! But in this case it definitely wasn't User:Blinkchillie90

Fair points (and good to see you've got the signature working), but if you look at the information contained in every one of the DSOTM song articles, it establishes notability. Currently, most of these articles just say "X is a song written by Rivers Cuomo for Weezer's debut album in 1994" or words to that effect. My suggestion would be to take a cue from the DSOTM article and do up a table with songwriter/producer/whathaveyou credits on the "Blue Album" article and add all of that in there (tables look better than lists, I'd say). Then it would be a case of establishing notability for any individual album track, since I'll grant that a single is notable per se. The catch is going to be, though, that an album track which is really well-known by fans of the band may not be notable enough for a general encyclopedia - my father would probably love to see articles on every B-Side by the Rolling Stones, but I doubt they're all that notable. BigHaz 03:54, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• Summarize lucidly and concisely, merge, and redirect. If this 44-second track is so very notable within the world of Weezerfandom as to require its own article, why then there should be a Weezer-specific wiki in which it may have its own article. -- Hoary 03:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok I have stopped caring about the B-sides I simply want to save the regular album tracks. Those tracks are the ones that truely matter. I don't care anymore whether or not you delete My Evaline. In fact as the creator of the My Evaline page I am encouraging you to just delete it along with "susanne." But not "Mykel and Carli" that song is important. But "surf wax" and "Only in dreams" are the ones that deserve their own page along with the all the Blue album songs. I will also consider that table idea as well. Ok i'm done for tonight, I don't know what time it is where ever anyone else is but where i am it's 11:54PM so I'm going to bed. User:Blinkchillie90

• Keep "My Evaline" and "Mykel and Carli," no opinion on the other two, but leaning toward keep. Enough can be said about this song to make a worthwhile article, and there's no dearth of Weezer information out there to warrant articles.. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, so I added more information to "Mykel and Carli," Because there is some information behind that song, and what that song has come to mean, that at least I thnk is important. --rwiggum talk 00:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

• merge all to Weezer (The Blue Album). Fancruft per WP:NOT indiscriminate collection of information. Each band has songs (other than the hit singles) which have special meaning for it, and that alone is not reason to have an article on each one. These are not hit songs/singles, and do not meet notability criteria in the WP:SONG guideline. These are style notes and facts which have greater significance in the context of the band's music as a whole and not as individual articles. Ohconfucius 09:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and Ohconfucius -fancruft which doesn't merit an article Armon 16:35, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.