Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of films about animals

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, although an editorial merge with List of animal films might be more helpful. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:16, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of films about animals[edit]

(contested prod) List of loosely associated topics. Complete list would be rendered useless by its own size. The introductory sentence (notable films that are primarily about and/or feature animals) contains vague keywords like "notable", "primarily", "feature". Pascal.Tesson (talk) 13:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - While it doesn't exactly (testing my literacy skills here) fail WP:LISTS, I don't think it could ever conceivably pass WP:NOR - unless you can find a reliable, published source listing every film about an animal or animals that has been made, which I highly doubt exists for reasons you've already outlined. Black-Velvet 13:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I declined the prod, on the basis that it was not indiscriminate. I added the keywords notable and primarily that Pascal objects to, bcause in fact they are the usual criteria for inclusion on such a list--notable meaning they have articles in Wikipedia and primarily being the rule to avoid listing every film with an animal in it. Both good common sense criteria, and the absence of a bright line for primarily does not invalidate it because matters of editorial judgement can be disscused on the talk page. Further we have no limit to the size of a list--if necessary, they can be subdivided, either alphabetically by title or by type of animal, or other criteria such as age group intended. There are some very long lists in Wikipedia--and short ones are objected to at AfD as being too short--any list can be objected to as being one of either. I'd even argue that the longer the list, the more need for it. I do not see how it is not maintainable, as we can look at each film articles in Wikipedia and see if they fit. If we can write the article, we can certainly say if its about animals. DGG (talk) 15:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Although I am not weighing in on this as of yet, the above phrase is why I love participating in WP: contains vague keywords like "notable", "primarily", "feature". If notable is a vague keyword then there are an extraordinary amount of vague positions in these deletion debates. If I were to agree (not likely) with the notion that Notable is vague then Not Notable and Passes the Notability test are really pretty meaningless positions and contribute nothing to a deletion debate.IMHO--Mike Cline (talk) 16:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The vague keywords are what have me here. Is any Dr. Dolittle film "about animals"? What about all the CGI animation films that we see? Sure, Over the Hedge has almost nothing but animals. But what about Ratatouille (which is fun to say) which had animals and humans in near equal measure? What about films like Air Bud which feature one animal character? There's no clear criterion here. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells• Otter chirps • HELP!)} 18:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with List of animal films. Not surprisingly, it's been done before, and the older list has enough in it to survive the "first-kid-on-the-block" nomination that is sure to follow now that I've betrayed its existence. I can see some potential for this, since it mentions what type of animal is on the silver screen. I suggest that the author try to add to that article. Mandsford (talk) 19:58, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep DGG has got it right almost. What this list needs is just a better lead-in explaining the criteria for inclusion. In preparing to make my input I discovered three lists that make for interesting comparision: List of movies about horses - Movies about heroic horses constitute a popular film genre. Some examples include: All one needs to do is define a heroic horse! Francis the Mule??; List of films about mathematicians - This is a list of feature films that include a mathematician (or scientist who uses a lot of math) as one of the main characters. (What scientist doesn't use a lot of math?); or List of firefighting films - (criteria too long for this but pretty unambiguous). Where the lead-in for this list is a big sweeping and somewhat ambiguous statement, the other lists mentioned have increasingly better definitions in their lead-in. I believe when we encounter lists such as these, our task should not be to delete the list, but refine the lead-in so as to make it a better list. Very few WP guidelines get nominated for deletion (although it would be nice to see some go). However when we encounter guidelines that are ill-defined and ambiguous we change them and make them better. Same principle ought to apply to list lead-ins. Make em better, less ambiguous so that editors know what the add, how to source and how make the content better.--Mike Cline (talk) 20:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What scientists don't use a lot of math? Few IRL. Jane Goodall perhaps being an example IRL. But, it seems to me few movie scientists use any math at all.
Keep -- In addition to DGG's excellent points I get concerned (no offense) over what I regard as a fundamental lack of appreciation of where the major power of a project like the wikipedia comes from. The real power of a project like the wikipedia lies in the links, not the text. Lists of indiscriminate links are worthless. Organized lists of links are useful. This is an organized list. Geo Swan (talk) 21:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. —PC78 (talk) 02:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - impossible to maintain --T-rex 19:23, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge it on down with list of animal films, or merge that all down with list of films about animals, or just set all the animals loose together to interbreed or fight King of the Fondue (talk) 13:58, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- Ned Scott 06:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.