Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Vice Chancellors of the Aligarh Muslim University

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Minus the now-blocked socks, nobody wants to keep these lists as separate articles. The content remains in the main article's history and could be restored there, but that's an editorial decision outside the scope of this closure.  Sandstein  20:20, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

List of Vice Chancellors of the Aligarh Muslim University[edit]

List of Vice Chancellors of the Aligarh Muslim University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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List of Chancellors of the Aligarh Muslim University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Content forks of Aligarh Muslim University which are not needed as separate articles as even with the embedded list the article size reaches ~22kB. Also note that the shabby current state of the parent article does not really improve by forking out different content as separate articles. So why not propose merger? I am not proposing merger as this was already on the main page and reverted multiple times. A WP:CSD#A10 was removed by another user who simply happens to be dedicating a lot of time in such forks related to AMU. And basically, a merger leaves a redirect and the long string phrase "List of [post] of the Aligarh Muslim University" is not likely searchable. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:38, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 03:42, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. North America1000 13:15, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. North America1000 13:15, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. Both the list of Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors if put in the parent article will make the article too large. It does not fall under Content forks. It is a common feature to have separate list of Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors instead of having in the parent article. It is pointed out that the list of Chancellor was a recent creation and was not there in the parent article earlier. Both the list is growing which cannot be in the parent article. Thanks.- EyThink (talk) 18:13, 27 September 2015 (UTC) blocked by CU as a sockpuppet of User:Arifjwadder who has also commented on this page.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:09, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are confusing now. In the nomination you said that this list was earlier there in the parent article, but the version which you are showing is the version after both the list has been created. If you put both the list in the parent article then the parent article will be lengthy unnecessary which is not necessary. The list of Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors can be in a separate article. Why don not you show the version which was before both the lists has been created. Also, you in the nomination said that the list of Chancellors were earlier there but it is not so. The list of Chancellors have been created recently. Please make your facts clear. Thanks.- Arifjwadder (talk) 09:00, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
— Note to closing admin: Arifjwadder (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
Blah! §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 09:12, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 06:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Both the article meets WP:N and it is not content forks. The parent article did not have the list of Chancellors (only a abridged list of Vice-Chancellors was there and the list has grown now) and when both the list is included in the parent article the parent article becomes unreadable with two tables. Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors are different thing in Indian university system. Anything contained in the article must be verifiable and both the articles are acceptable under WP:V. With given references both the articles Topic notability is established. The issue must not revolve around size of the article (KBs and MBs) but must revolve in the readability. See also List_of_Vice-Chancellors_of_the_University_of_Oxford and List_of_Chancellors_of_the_University_of_Oxford. EyThink (talk) 06:36, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: My apologies for not making it clear that the two lists of Chancellors/Vice Chancellors per se should be included in the parent article. I have appended my !vote above to reflect that, and I have included the lists in Aligarh Muslim University with attribution. As is readily seen, there is no reason for having separate lists, Aligarh Muslim University in itself is a fairly short article. -- Sam Sailor Talk! 08:10, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
User:Sam Sailor no university in the world is having the list in its parent article. Separate articles makes the parent article more readable irrespective of its size. EyThink (talk) 10:31, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as unnecessary content forks. The Chancellors' list may qualify as encyclopedic content, but the Vice-Chancellors' list is just gratuitous detail and possible ego-fluffing. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment No university has its Vice-Chancellors list in the parent article. It meets WP:N and can have a standalone article.- EyThink (talk) 10:05, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Strange, after 2012 you came back to editing wiki through this account and then you voted keep for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aligarh Institute Gazette, and editing the article Nai Umar Ki Nai Fasal which is a film shot in AMU. Any WP:COI here? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 17:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete the list of vice chancellors, per Orangemike. This is a really bad example of WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:UPANDCOMING, and WP:MILL. Just because the institution and the chancellor may be notable, does not make the vice chancellor notable. Such positions are usually held by academics who don't publish, but are adept at management. In any case, such positions are very common and dull. If this is kept, it would create a terrible precedent, allowing lists of vice principals, vice presidents, deputy rectors, et cetera, of every college and university. I take no stand on the list of chancellors. Bearian (talk) 17:40, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, you are terribly mistaken. In India, the Vice-Chancellor is the head of any university. Vice-Chancellor is the academic office of the university and not management head. An university and colleges cant be compared at all. Moreover, this university is a institution of national importance as declared under the Indian Constitution. Vice-Chancellors and Vice-Principals cannot be compared at all.- Arifjwadder (talk) 18:53, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
By definition, the leader of the academic office is a management head. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:00, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So??? Arifjwadder (talk) 22:04, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment User talk:Bearian Your comment that the position of Vice-Chancellor is not notable gives me an impression that you are not much aware of Indian University system. Please see each and every Vice Chancellor and you will find notability of every person. I am sorry that you have diminished the position of Vice-Chancellor of this University. India has very less number of central university and its vice chancellors are in serial 25 in Indian order of precedence. Though by your comment the position will never degrade. Thanks.- EyThink (talk) 10:22, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This university is not anywhere near as prestigious as an Oxbridge or Ivy League institution. Bearian (talk) 23:32, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are not these List of Vice-Chancellors of the University of Oxford and List of Chancellors of the University of Oxford content fork????.Arifjwadder (talk) 22:02, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:WAX (the argument is typical of this editors of this subject - a Keeping up with the Joneses mentality that whatever they have , we should have it too, whether or not sources exist or that what the Jones have is a piece of toxic shit)-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:07, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cannot you see sufficient sources in both of the article??? Arifjwadder (talk) 22:12, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
no, i do not see sufficient sources discussing lists of VCs in depth. I see passing mentions that "X is /was VC". -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:17, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No source will ever discuss details of all VCs in a single article. And no one will also discuss lists of VCs. It will be separate. Is this http://zeenews.india.com/news/uttar-pradesh/noor-mohammad-takes-charge-as-amus-vice-chancellor_764166.html as passing mention ??? Arifjwadder (talk) 22:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What is your say on this http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-newdelhi/article1844402.ece. Atleast respect Indian President. And why would any news article discuss lists of VCs in depth??? Arifjwadder (talk) 22:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also, http://bhopal.nic.in/bplhistory.htm and http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/bohra-community-head-is-amu-chancellor/article7094237.ece.- Arifjwadder (talk) 22:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What I say about those is that they are most certainly NOT lists of VC's. They are WP:ROUTINE coverage of a leadership transition. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:05, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom you are back again with vandalism with this organisation. I know that you don not agree with the given citations. Here the user User:Arifjwadder has cited lot of references which are enough for a standalone article. Also, i concur with User:Arifjwadder that no news article will talk about list of Vice-Chancellors in a whole. In a lighter side, why people will visit Wikipedia if the list is available in another website. Wikipedia is a place where people gets aggregated news sourced from several websites.- EyThink (talk) 10:39, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@EyThink: Please stop your baseless, unsupported personal attacks. There is nothing that I have done that is even slightly close to WP:VANDALISM . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:03, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • remerge back to the univeristy article - there is not excessive content in the main article nor sufficient source coverage about the sub topic to merit stand alone article at this time. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:07, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You have just stated above the reason why it shouldnt be kept: " no news article will talk about list of Vice-Chancellors in a whole". Our articles are precisely based on subject that reliable sources have covered. But that is merely the minimum first criteria. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:42, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are sufficient reliable sources which talks about vie-chancellors which I think will not acknowledge because of your hatred of this organization. Thanks- Arifjwadder (talk) 06:27, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop your personal attacks. I have zero feelings of "love" or "hate" for the school. I DO have a growing irritation about the SPA accounts attempting to hijack Wikipedia into a promotional platform for the school. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:01, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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