Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Ouran High School Host Club characters

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep the list, redirect the individual articles to it. I am relisting in lieu of deletion because they are potential search targets, and they may prove to be a source for potentially encyclopedic material that can be merged. Shereth 18:15, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of Ouran High School Host Club characters[edit]

This article is comprised solely of indepth detail on fictional characters from the comic book (and later cartoon), Ouran High School Host Club. Is the comic notable? Yes. Is the comic referenceable? Yes. Is this level of detail? No. The article has NO references (fails WP:V, and very probably WP:NOR). There is no verification for this stuff outside primary sources, and synthesizing them in this manner is also not what Wikipedia is for. There is NO reasoning for why and how these characters are notable in and of themselves (fails WP:N).

It's basically a list of random information such as their blood types, and how tall they are, and what kind of music they like, and how fond of sweets they are. This article is nothing but completely random useless fan trivia.

There are also a host of subsubarticles, which are even more indepth - but equally unreferenced - again full of nothing but unverifiable original research and trivia. These are:

I would suggest delete all. Neıl 龱 10:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep When I first saw this, I couldn't believe it. I agree that some of the character specific articles might be a bit too much. But this general article, definitely no. Most anime/manga articles has a respective character page, so why can't this one? - plau (talk) 11:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. All the articles seem to be opinions, written like essays. example "Haruhi is an intelligent..." really, says who? "Although her independent and simple personality clashes with the much more outgoing hosts" opinion of the writer or fact? "Nekozawa is actually very handsome under his hood", etc, etc, etc....It may be possible for the author to find references to these numerous opinions, i.e. prove they are not their own thoughts, but this seems unlikely (given the shear number). The subject may be noteworthy, but the way the article is written demands bucket loads of references to prove it is not opinionated. yours Czar Brodie (talk) 12:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, tag, cull, and source Well I'm familiar enough with the primary source (full disclosure, I also happen to like it) to observe that its not totally out of line in its statements. Unfortunately, that doesn't help the article. I think what we should do is keep the article for the time being and tag it with the OR and citations tags. Given that most of the facts are based in the primary source (the manga and the anime), and given that the anime/manga is notable, a list of characters is justified, but specific pointers to episodes/volumes would be required for each statement or observation about the characters, at the least, but I think that much is fully doable. As for the reliability of sources, I don't see how you can get more accurate about a subject (the characters) than the primary source. HatlessAtless (talk) 13:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As for the secondary pages, unless independent notability can be established and verified for the English wikipedia, I don't see how those subpages can possibly be justified. The sub-articles fail WP:N and are not justifiable by WP:UNDUE as the character list might be. We should delete each of the character subpages. HatlessAtless (talk) 13:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete All: This is complete original research, all individual essays regarding the individual characters. Are there any sources, any at all, backing up the assertions given? RGTraynor 13:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Character List Article, Delete all others: The Haruhi Fujioka article was greatly overrun with OR even more so 2 months ago [[1]]. A good succinct and sourced paragraphs(s) should be places into main character list article for each characters. Primary sources are acceptable to source verifiable content about character design, or behavior. But should be used in tandem with third party sources. For example, "In Ouran High School Host Club, he'll portray Ritsu Kasanoda, whom FUNimation describes as "a misunderstood heir to a mafia empire," wanting the Host Club to help him soften his image."[2] and "Jamie Marchi is set to portray Chiziru Maihara, a character who plays a prominent role in the St. Lobelia Academy Zuka Club, and considers women vastly superior to men. And Cherami Leigh will be playing Kirimi Nekozawa, president of the Black Magic Club, who has a strong fear of the dark"[3]. Cheers, AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 14:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. —AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 15:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep list only per AM above. Inasmuch as the manga and anime are themselves notable and licensed for release in English, the list can be sourced from the releases of the bound volumes of the manga, the licensed DVD, and ANN. This seems to be the favored practice for cleaning up anime/manga articles. The subarticles should be deleted as the appropriate content all ready exists in the list. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 16:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 20:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 20:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - read up on why at NOTE's talk page. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep the list, keep the characters except Yasuchika Haninozuka (strong delete). Yes, the list doesn't have a single reference at its current state, but it CAN be improved. Besides, if this list should get deleted, I'd say there are many other lists will meet their end (see Category:Lists of anime and manga characters and look at some of them and compare). I've been putting up primary-source citations for some of the articles (Haruhi Fujioka, Tamaki Suou and Kyouya Ootori) but yet to work on others. I'm really slow at editing but if provided a long time, I can help fixing the articles at least to the stage where they deserve to be kept. The subarticles just need more cleanups and references. Yasuchika Haninozuka is a minor character in the series so I think that article has no place in Wikipedia. — Yurei-egg tart 06:10, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all, AfD is not cleanup. Clean up the articles, merging those characters without individual notability into the list. —Dino guy 1000 18:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep - Needing cleanup is not grounds for deletion. Tag the articles as appropriate, don't nominate for deletion. Doceirias (talk) 19:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep list and redirect the character articles to the list as plausible search terms. Character lists are a valid split from the main article in order to keep the main article from becoming excessively long and weighted down with in-universe details. This list could use a better lead and copyediting to remove any editorializing (POV) and use more specific referencing. But overall, it is in pretty good shape. --Farix (Talk) 20:37, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep the list (and tag for cleanup) per the consensus that lists are the best way of handling fictional elements of long series when they grow too long for the main article. Keep Haruhi Fujioka and Tamaki Suou but put a merge proposal on the articles -- this action because with her cultural significances as a cross-dresser and his popularity, I suspect they may be able to demonstrate their independent notability, and as the lead characters, they deserve the time to do so. Merge the other character articles into the list. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, given the number of reviews that specify the (eccentric) cast of characters as part of the appeal of the series, the list can independently demonstrate notability even aside from said consensus. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:44, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've tagged the list for cleanup and notified the relevant WikiProject's (active) Cleanup Task Force. I haven't tagged the character articles, pending a clearer sense of the AfD's result. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but heavily prune Sceptre ^(talk) 13:07, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep of the character list, which is a legitimate spinout article to keep the main article from becoming too long. (For example, see List of recurring characters in The Simpsons or List of minor Peanuts characters) Unbundle and renominate the individual character articles so individual notability can be assessed. Edward321 (talk) 16:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This list is just like all the other character lists in anime. Just needs some cleanup. -- Highwind888, the Fuko Master (talk) 04:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the list of characters Why would you delete a list of characters? Other series get lists of characters. It just needs work...that's all. -Sukecchi (talk) 13:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Move to close, I don't think this needs a week to establish consensus. —Dino guy 1000 19:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I see a clear consensus on the character list, but not for the character articles. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt one could be established in this discussion anyways. I would rather see this closed with no consensus for the individual characters, then open discussions for them as necessary after cleanup. —Dino guy 1000 21:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be putting merge tags on the character articles once this is over, if they survive. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:40, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge all individual character articles into the list and strong keep or else delete all character lists on Wikipedia!--十八 05:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.