Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas (1–99)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I find the consensus in this discussion is to Keep these articles. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas (1–99)[edit]

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A indiscriminate listing of Farm to Market Roads in Texas, with inclusion being solely on the basis of verifiable existence, rather than encyclopedic and topical relevance. Should be deleted for violating NOT and LISTCRIT.

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. BilledMammal (talk) 02:28, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 October 25. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 02:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the guidance at WP:CSC, specifically "Every entry in the list fails the notability criteria." That is the case here.–Fredddie ™ 02:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That argument could be used to justify any list article; it's only applicable to content, not to the existence of the article. BilledMammal (talk) 05:04, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. WP:GEOROAD indicates that state highways are typically notable for their own article (which would include all these roads), however I do not believe that this necessarily extends to second-class state highways (which is what these are). So we wind up with these lists that attempt to strike a balance. I do not think that anyone would doubt the notability of the system Farm-to-market road as a whole so I think a list of some form is valid. Some might say that this should all just be merged into one giant table and that should be the end of it. While I would find that acceptable, I think we should keep the lists and be more strict about merging in articles such as Farm to Market Road 344, where it is not clear to me why they were left out of the merge process several years ago (when we really did have hundreds of these articles and systematically merged them away). --Rs chen 7754 03:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- As a procedural note I have notified all creators of the nominated pages, except for myself and Fredddie and Scott5114 (since the nominator did not do this). --Rs chen 7754 03:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep— this is a discriminate set of lists. The word "indiscriminate" means "done at random or without careful judgement", and in this seat of lists is not random. If it were, there would be entries missing. WP:LISTCRIT also states: "While notability is often a criterion for inclusion in overview lists of a broad subject, it may be too stringent for narrower lists; one of the functions of many lists on Wikipedia is providing an avenue for the retention of encyclopedic information that does not warrant separate articles, so common sense is required in establishing criteria for a list." This information is encyclopedic for fleshing out the context of the state highway systems in Texas, and the subject of these lists is narrowly construed as just the farm-to-market roads in that state. Imzadi 1979 → 07:38, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is not random, but it was done without careful judgement, including everything as a mirror of the Texas Department of Transport website. BilledMammal (talk) 22:30, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The lists are intended to cover farm-to-market roads (a meaningful subject) in a more compact and clean way than the myriad low-quality articles that formerly proliferated across Wikipedia. I'd also like to add that even the nominator's rationale for deletion (that the lists are indiscriminate) is at most grounds for trimming the lists of "unnecessary" sections/routes to make it a discriminate selection, not deleting the pages en masse. -happy 5214 08:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per WP:GEOROAD, state highways are notable. However, farm to market roads are secondary state highways and are better suited to coverage in a list. This is a discriminate set of lists and is therefore fine to have. Dough4872 10:41, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:GEOROAD does not say that state highways are notable it says they are typically notable (aka sometimes not notable), please don't tell lies about our notability guidelines. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Lists. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:14, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Per WP:NLIST: One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. The Farm to Market system is notable in that the group of roadways is the subject of coverage in reliable sources, e.g. [1], [2], and [3]. Thus, while some of these individual routes may not have sufficient coverage to warrant standalone articles, consolidating them into lists is justified. Furthermore, these list articles are not indiscriminate, in that the number of such routes is a finite number that is determined by the Texas Department of Transportation, and thus the inclusion criteria are clear. --Kinu ^t/_c 20:04, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep No valid reason given for deletion. There are ample blue links to articles about the individual farmer markets, making it a valid list for information and navigation. Dream Focus 21:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect all to Farm-to-market road#Texas. I'll go against the tide. If there were only a few hundred roads, I'd say keep, but there are so many entries here, and almost every single one is a mirror of entries like [4], violating WP:NOTDATABASE. I at least appreciate that they have been compacted into a few articles rather than splayed across thousands, and regardless of the result of this AfD, the blatantly non-notable standalone articles should be redirected to their respective lists. I'd suggest something akin to List of minor planets: 535001–536000 and its ilk; a single table, perhaps with lengths and opening dates. But what we have right now is just a bloated mirror of the Texas DOT website. Ovinus (talk) 00:07, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, for the reasons listed above. Alexlatham96 (talk) 02:25, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Farm-to-market road#Texas, this does not serve a valid encyclopedic purpose... Arguments from roadfans to the contrary. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:31, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all as valid lists under WP:NLIST. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:27, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
keep per Rschen7754. Agreed that most of the roads listed in this article are not individually notable and those articles should be deleted, but the list as a whole is worthy of inclusion IMHO.Dave (talk) 17:23, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I can't really add more than the many comments have already added, but I agree that this should be kept for the reasons stated above. Hey man im josh (talk) 03:39, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for reasons listed above. Meltdown627 (talk) 23:47, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas but have links to the range of the FM / RM within that article rather than the summary that currently exists. Erasmussen (talk)
Strong delete - This is nothing but WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Of the whopping 36 lists above with hundreds of citations, there only three secondary sources used in three individual citations. One news article each at List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas (2900–2999), List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas (900–999), and List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas (600–699). The rest of the sources comprise Texas DOT Highway directory pages, public hearing notices, government maps, and Google Maps. Those are all primary. This violates WP:PRIMARY which says Do not base an entire article on primary sources, and be cautious about basing large passages on them. -Indy beetle (talk) 18:34, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all per Rschen7754. —Scott5114 ↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 21:23, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.