Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Chevrolet Corvette owners

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of Chevrolet Corvette owners[edit]

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See WP:CARTRIVIA, WP:IPC, and WP:LC. Lists of people who own things are generally pop-culture/trivia. Vossanova ^o< 18:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 18:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Popular culture-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Products-related deletion discussions. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per nomination. If this was some rare car or something a list might be possibly be reasonable, but this is not that car.--Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:00, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes WP:LISTN (and not just because Corvettes pass everything). When I wrote this article I asked myself, "will someone nominate this article for deletion?" So I looked first at Category:Chevrolet Corvette and counted an eye-popping 43 (yes...43!) articles about Corvettes, with combined page-views of about a half-million viewers annually. In other words, this isn't a list of "people who enjoy Fritos corn chips". Then I looked at WP:SALAT, where a consensus of editors agreed that "The potential for creating lists is infinite. The number of possible lists is limited only by our collective imagination", although there are some limits listed. Specifically, to "limit the size and topic of lists", editors should avoid lists that are "too general or too broad in scope", and second, editors should avoid lists that transgress WP:NOT. I don't believe this list meets either of those two criteria. Finally, the nominator, User:Vossanova, has stated "Lists of people who own things are generally pop-culture/trivia". Is there a consensus someplace supporting this assertion? Interestingly, Joe Biden released a campaign advertisement today where he's driving his Corvette and pitching American-made products. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:04, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just thought I'd comment on the WP:SALAT line "The potential for creating lists is infinite. The number of possible lists is limited only by our collective imagination". This is not a "consensus" of editors. It's an observation. It can apply to lists, articles, images, just about anything, really. It is only saying that an infinite number of lists could be created. It's not saying that they should be created. The line is followed about how there should be limits to what kinds of lists are created. --Vossanova ^o< 18:49, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Per nomination. Simply a list of notable people who own Corvettes, with few being really noteworthy for owning the cars. The astronauts' ownership is the rare exception. and perhaps Biden's use in his ad, both of which can be and probably are covered elsewhere already. - BilCat (talk) 20:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep WP:CARTRIVIA, WP:IPC and WP:LC cited by the nomination are all essays and so there is no policy-based case to answer. All the entries in this list are cited and it seems to be quite tidy and well-constructed. I'm not seeing a problem here -- just a lot of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. BTW, while Diamond Joe is famous for his muscle-cars, it is amusing to find that Donald Trump has a gold-plated chopper and a Tesla! Andrew🐉(talk) 21:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this list is almost so trivial as to be meaningless. This isn't a particularly rare car, so why should it matter if a celebrity owns it? This is sort of like a "List of iPhone 7 owners": way too broad. TheAwesome Hwyh 22:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. TheAwesome Hwyh 22:22, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Utter trivia, not a defining or meaningful characteristic for something widely available for decades. Most sources are passing mentions of ownership; no significant sources covering the topic as a whole either. We should not have lists of owners of Honda Civics or Teslas or Ferraris, you know damn well this is ridiculous. Widespread popularity of the car (and our articles on its variations) does not justify this. A better alternative would be a section in the main article using prose and substantive sources to discuss the car's cultural status and major appearances in society, expanding on the last paragraph of the lead (certainly including Joe Biden and it being symbol of American manufacturing), not meaningless mere mentions that random famous people had once owned one, just like my second cousin. Reywas92^Talk 23:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I didn't. :) BilCat (talk) 23:47, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I don't believe this meets WP:LISTN. Out of the 25 corresponding articles for each "notable" owner, exactly two of them (and one only in passing) mention ownership of a Corvette. For example, the Guy Fieri article mentions that he is a car collector and goes so far as to list several cars he has owned, none of which were a Corvette. For any given notable figure with a passing interest in cars, the fact that, at one point, they owned a Corvette is trivial. Furthermore, most of these owners (with the exception of the astronauts, which would possibly be appropriate for its own article) are not notable in the context of the Corvette, i.e. the popularity of the Corvette was not affected by their ownership. Nor was their ownership notable in its own right, take for example Bill Gate's Porsche 959. None of the entries are notable as to a specific Corvette e.g. the first X, the last Y, the only Z, etc, other than being owned by that particular person. Finally, in several cases the sources fail to meet WP:RS, for example several are merely publishing that a car allegedly owned by whomever is for sale (arguably proving notability), and are factually inaccurate on their face, cutting against their reliability. Others still are mere side notes in a much longer story about the person, which hardly support actual ownership, much less notability. IPBilly (talk) 00:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Fails LISTN, WP:INDISCRIMINATE, and in particular IPBilly's detailed analysis. Ravenswing 04:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE WP:NOTTRIVIA. There are literally going to be hundreds of notable people who own or have owned these models. Ajf773 (talk) 10:07, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, like aren't there loads of celebrities and other rich b*st*rds who piss their money away on massive car collections? Jay Leno's Garage would go on dozens of stupid lists like this were it replicated for any of hundreds of car models out there. By no means is something so hopelessly incomplete "quite tidy" or "well-constructed". Reywas92^Talk 16:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Reywas92: Being "incomplete" is not a reason for deletion. What is needed to make this list more complete? Magnolia677 (talk) 17:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Magnolia677: How would you complete this what is the inclusion criteria? I think the list you wanted to create was List of Chevrolet Corvette collectors. They would have to be sourced as a collector and have a blue link. Valoem ^talk ^contrib 19:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Magnolia677: The tenor of those of us supporting deletion is not that we're doing so because this doesn't list every celeb who's ever owned a Corvette; as you say, "incomplete" is not a valid deletion ground. I'd hate to see you bust your head putting in more sources and more celebs and still not meet the genuine issues. Ravenswing 19:58, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to see if the article would float. One never knows how the winds blow. Fun to see Heidi Fleiss and Biden on the same list. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:19, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've learned the hard way that there are easier ways of doing that than through AfDs! Sometimes opening a discussion.on the main article's talk page, or on a topic project talk page, and see what happens. That might be the way to go with List of Chevrolet Corvette collectors, which is more focused, and have better inclusion criteria. BilCat (talk) 21:38, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lists articles are a wildcard, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of lakes named after people. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So see if there's enough information to make a substantive article. You can probably find some interested editors at Talk:Chevrolet Corvette. BilCat (talk) 00:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Despite the charming breezy quality of Magnolia677's comments, which is much appreciated. This list and List of lakes named after people may squeak through our "rules about lists" as those rules are currently set up. That only suggests our rules need some work. The actual content here isn't encyclopedic information with the meaning or significance we expect in an article. It's just data. --Lockley (talk) 00:12, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No more listworthy than List of yacht owners, List of private jet owners, List of palace owners, or even List of people who ask complete strangers for Grey Poupon. Rich people can afford great toys. So? Clarityfiend (talk) 04:56, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Arbitrary trivia, listing famous people who own a certain kind of car, and not even a rare one at that. Further, the actual list criteria appears to be "List of People Who Have Ever Owned a Corvette in Their Lifetime", as there are dead people (Orbison, Fawcett, Wayne) on the list as well as, another dead guy who lost it to bankruptcy before dying? Silly. Zaathras (talk) 22:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This list is arbitray, dynamic, and 100 % trivia – I don't see any encyclopedic and useful information. There are endless options for similar lists, and we don't need any of them. --Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 23:28, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete People owning a brand of car is not what made them notable, therefore listing them this way is worthless when we already have article for the car brand and these people where we can simply mention that they owned a car like this.★Trekker (talk) 00:38, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete What's next? List of bald people deleted in 2006? –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 17:19, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If you're wondering where to go from here, there are two options into getting this info into articles. 1) Mention the people in Chevrolet Corvette, or 2) Note the Corvette ownership in the owners' individual articles.

Regarding #1, WP:CARTRIVIA states "Similarly, lists of celebrity owners of cars tend to grow to inappropriate length. The guideline that has been widely accepted for automotive subjects is that mention of pop-culture references should be strictly limited to cases where the fact of that reference influenced the sales, design or other tangible aspect of the vehicle." You would only mention an owner in the car article if the ownership affected the car's notability, e.g. sales. As such, it's very rare to see specific owners mentioned in a car article.

Regarding #2, you need to ask yourself "is the ownership of this car something that is notable enough to go in that person's article"? It's not enough for the source to say they own the car; the source should also mention how it has affected the notability of the car or its owner. Maybe the owner is a noted car collector who prizes it and has discussed it often. Again, only a few of the owners on the list would pass that test, if any. --Vossanova ^o< 18:59, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete List could include literally millions of people. How about a list of all owners of mobile homes? All owners of Alaskan gold bars? Truly inappropriate. Yipee8f93k (talk) 00:31, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unless someone really wants to merge into List of 1965 pale yellow Dodge Dart owners. // Timothy :: talk 03:11, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as trivia, non-notable intersection of notable topics (the car and the biographies). – Muboshgu (talk) 15:37, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.