Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lincoln-Villa, Pasadena, California

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California#Lincoln-Villa. No clear case has been made for why the content should be deleted, so it remains under the redirect Star Mississippi 23:33, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lincoln-Villa, Pasadena, California[edit]

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Came across this guy working on WP:FEB24 and I'm really struggling to find *any* mention of this neighborhood name that's not realtor-spam. The closest I could find was a mention of a Cypress-Lincoln-Villa as "stakeholders" on a petition. Lincoln and Villa is clearly an intersection, and I suspect this overlaps a lot with something called New Fair Oaks Historic District but IDK about notability on this one. I've come up blank on Newspapers, HathiTrust, and the City of Pasadena website. jengod (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. jengod (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Neighborhoods of Pasadena, California or Northwest Pasadena.
Linda Vista, Pasadena, California should suffer the same fate. p b p 01:31, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect per above. Unable to find any coverage of this neighborhood. TWOrantula^TM (enter the web) 04:59, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ I've been curious how all the real estate sites have sectioned up places into neighborhoods. I know where I'm from these types of things have no basis in anything other than round boundaries. So, I looked it up in google and it's just marketing and reputational strategy. Its how they project an image of expertise and denote where they operate. I don't think we should help contribute to that.James.folsom (talk) 18:56, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The contents of Template:Pasadena, California and Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California demonstrate what Purplebackpack89 (talk · contribs) is talking about.
That said, the article at hand and quite a number of the others need a big According to whom? question mark against them. Looking for sources for the "neighbourhoods" of Pasadena, I found instead two lists:
- National Register Districts
  - Arroyo Terrace — which we do not have at all (Arroyo Terrace)
  - Lower Arroyo Seco — which we have as Lower Arroyo, Pasadena, California + Lower Arroyo Seco Historic District
  - Old Pasadena — which we have as Old Pasadena
  - Orange Heights – Barnhart — which we have as Orange Heights, Pasadena, California → Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California
  - Pasadena Civic Center — which we have as Pasadena Civic Center District
  - Pasadena Playhouse — which we have as Playhouse District, Pasadena, California → Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California
  - Prospect Boulevard — which we have as Prospect Park, Pasadena, California → Prospect Historic District
  - South Marenga Avenue — which we do not have at all (South Marenga Avenue)
- Local Landmark Districts:
  - Banbury Oaks — which we have as Banbury Oaks + Banbury Oaks, Pasadena, California → Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California
  - Bungalow Heaven — which we have as Bungalow Heaven, Pasadena, California
  - Crawford's Vale — which we do not have at all (Crawford's Vale)
  - Garfield Heights — which we have as Garfield Heights, Pasadena, California → Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California
  - Governor Markham — which we have as Bellefontaine/Governor Markham, Pasadena, California
  - Hollston Avenue — which we do not have at all (Hollston Avenue)
  - Normandie Heights — which we have as Normandie Heights, Pasadena, California
  - Ross Grove — which we do not have at all (Ross Grove)
  - South Oakland Avenue — which we do not have at all (South Oakland, Pasadena, California)
  - Washington Square — which we have as Washington Square, Pasadena, California
We've conflated both of these into "neighborhoods", added a whole load of unsourced extra "neighborhoods", merged some of the historic and landmark districts and not merged some of the things which aren't listed as historic districts or landmark districts at all. And then grouped them geographically instead of which are Historic and which are Landmark.
Pasadena is a right mess.
Here are some of the unsourced "neighborhoods" that are not Designated Historic or Landmark Districts but that have been grouped in with them willy-nilly:
- East Washington Village, Pasadena, California — According to the unsourced article, it isn't even in Pasadena.
- Linda Vista, Pasadena, California
- Lincoln-Villa, Pasadena, California
- South Lake, Pasadena, California
- Oak Knoll, Pasadena, California
- Marceline, Pasadena, California
- Madison Heights, Pasadena, California
- Lamanda Park, Pasadena, California
- Raymond Hill/Arroyo Del Mar, Pasadena, California
- Annandale, Pasadena, California
- Hastings Ranch, Pasadena, California
- Eaton Canyon — Included in the "neighborhoods" list, but the actual article is about a river valley.
- Chapman, Pasadena, California
- California Village, Pasadena, California
- Victory Park, Pasadena, California
- Jefferson Park, Pasadena, California
- Brigden Ranch, Pasadena, California
- Casa Grande, Pasadena, California
- Daisy-Villa, Pasadena, California
Uncle G (talk) 07:00, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Uncle G: You bring up some important points and have necessitated that I explain some of my edits, but you have also brought up some things I need to clarify and correct.
1. First off, as a result of this AfD, I have begun the process of merging the smaller neighborhood articles into the Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California article. I haven't finished yet; I've only done Northwest Pasadena, North Lake and Downtown. Some of the mergers I made might have been in error. In light of Uncle G's comments, I am probably going to pause making additional mergers until we have further discussion
2. It's important to note that Category:Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California is NOT Category:Historic districts in Pasadena, California. A neighborhood need not be a historic district to be listed among the neighborhoods in the Neighborhoods article. A neighborhood need not be a historic district to have a stand-alone article either; if there is enough sourcing and content in the article. For example, Hastings Ranch is one of Pasadena's newer neighborhoods, but there is enough information there that I will NOT be merging it.
3. How the NRHP defines a neighborhood and how realtors, residents, or local utilities define a neighborhood may be different. The realtors, residents or utilities definition may include portions of a neighborhood that don't have enough contributing structures.
4. Several of the historic district articles didn't mention that they had been added to the NRHP. They may have been added SINCE the same editor who created most of them created them.
5. A couple of these have or had not one but two articles. For example there’s Lower Arroyo as the realtors define it and as as the NRHP defines it. Prospect previously had two articles as well, but I just merged them.
6. Upon perusal of the Northeast, Far East, Southwest and Southeast sections, Hastings Ranch; Annandale, Lower Arroyo, Lamanda Park and Oak Knoll should be kept, I'm undecided about Bellefontaine/Markham, and the rest should be merged or deleted.p b p 16:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- This is exciting, all the right people to make some precedent in how to deal with notability of these things. James.folsom (talk) 23:09, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The problem is that we do have sources for the Historic Districts and the Landmark Districts, but we do not have any sort of list of the "neighborhoods". I found the two aforementioned lists by accident, when I tried and failed to find any sort of list of "neighborhoods" of Pasadena. Instead I came away with a coffee-table book from Prospect Park Publishing, whatever that is, with two lists of the districts, and the City of Pasadena's maps and lists of the Historic and Landmark Districts. There are ten Arcadia Publishing books on Pasadena, one even devoted solely to Bungalow Heaven, and they gave no clue. One Arcadia book came close with Abbot Kinney's Kinneloa ranch that is now just housing, which ironically Abbot Kinney#Kinneloa does not mention or connect to Pasadena.
  I should add for the sake of completeness that the closest that the Arcadia books come to some "Lincoln-Villa" specifically is mentioning Lincoln Avenue.
  Uncle G (talk) 06:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Neighborhoods in Pasadena, California#Lincoln-Villa. I'll step around the notability issue, there is simply not enough sourcing to write content needing a stand alone article. Just because a topic can technically meet a guideline, doesn't mean it must or should have a stand alone article; the basic (still unsourced) geographic info is already in the target, any sourcing found should go there. It can develop there and if someone finds enough IRS (doubtful) to merit a stand alone article, it can be split out. // Timothy :: talk 09:13, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.