Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kgothatso Montjane

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Subject fails WP:NSPORT but passes GNG. (non-admin closure) Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kgothatso Montjane[edit]

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I don't see where this person passes GNG notability. Maybe a 15 minute of fame bio, but mostly just passing mentions in articles. Certainly does not meet Olympic Project Guidelines or Tennis Project Guidelines or WP:NSPORT. No gold medals either. There's been a rash of these bios created lately. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:11, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 00:40, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 00:40, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 00:40, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 00:40, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep subject has represented her country internationally and won a national award as a top sportswoman in South Africa.--TM 02:39, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep – Definitely passes notability, just unfortunately is currently a stub. Carbrera (talk) 03:10, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per the sources given, per Paralympic guidelines, per tennis Guidelines, this person is not notable. Someone is going to have to dig up something substantial other than what we have in order to convince a closer otherwise. You know how many minor league tennis players play internationally yet aren't notable? Countless thousands. There are also many many international events. For the Paralympics you have to win a medal to be notable unless GNG can be shown. Are you saying that just being in a lesser international event than the Paralympics makes one notable? If she medaled at the Paralympics I'd understand. We need a little more than "passes notability." We need proof that this athlete is the exception to the norm for WikiProject Olympics and Wikiproject Tennis. I admit there are sometimes exceptions, and that's fine. But there has been a rash of created articles on Paralympic athletes and they can't all be the exception. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:13, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked user Mishae asked me to post this link and I said I would do so for the sake of fairness. SA Paralympic team jets off to Rio. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:19, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – A basic search finds a host of third-party references so clearly meets GNG. Winning a gold medal is not a criteria. Greenman (talk) 07:39, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The question is, do the guidelines in WP:NTENNIS also apply for wheelchair tennis? Wheelchair tennis seems to be internationally sanctioned by the ITF. This particular athlete was able to reach quarter to semi-finals in the women singles in all the Grand-Slam tournaments in 2013 and 2014, Australian Open, Roland Garros and US Open. In the doubles she even was finalist in all 3 of those Grand-Slam tourneys too in both years (here a list: [1]). Those are officially ITF-sanctioned tournaments which take place parallel to the able-bodied tournament and give quite some prize money too. She also has won other high tier ITF tournaments like the Swiss or Belgian Open. She also participated in the World Team Cup two times. With all of that alone she would pass point 2 and 3 in WP:NTENNIS. She also was ranked as 5th best wheelchair tennis player in the world, which means something imo (currently still top 10). Even if WP:NTENNIS does not apply, there are plenty of big newspapers who report on her (especially from SA, even from before the paralympics). She was disabled sportwomen of the year of SA several times, which is a national SA award. Google news gives hundreds of results for her, she seems to be quite big in wheelchair tennis. So I think she passes WP:GNG too. I added a bit more info on her into the article. Dead Mary (talk) 09:30, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of things. Results do not make one notable. You can find results of high school tennis. There must be stand-alone articles in something substantial. WP:NTENNIS does not apply to wheelchair tennis. It says specifically to check Tennis Project guidelines for finer details. Tennis Project guidelines are as follows: Notability - "Wheelchair tennis tournaments: the four Grand Slam tournaments, the Wheelchair Tennis Masters and the Summer Paralympics are notable. Players are notable if they have won a Grand Slam tournament or end of year championship (in singles or doubles). Players are additionally notable if they were part of the winning team at the World Team Cup or won a medal at the Paralympics. See also WP:NOLYMPICS." Now, per sources given at the time of nomination there was nothing noteworthy at all, and she failed all the project parameters. While she may not be notable enough for Project Tennis, certainly she could meet GNG. I'll look at your new additions tomorrow to see if they change my mind. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:46, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm I understand. Albeit I think the rules are little bit strict, as she is clearly a world class wheelchair tennis player and definitely not on "high school tennis" level. :P Anyway, I added a number of articles by notable national SA media which feature her on the article talkpage too (in addition to the sources I added into the article), to further strenghten my argument that she passes WP:GNG. Please look at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kgothatso_Montjane Dead Mary (talk) 11:19, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you on GNG. While failing all Project Guidelines, she passes GNG. I will speedy close this. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:36, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.