Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Käla Mandrake

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 08:32, 16 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Käla Mandrake[edit]

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No indication of notability that I can see, apparently unambiguous promotion (or perhaps self-promotion?) by an WP:SPA. I've been able to identify only one reliably-sourced fact about her: in 2016 she wrote for a documentary by Jen Senko called The Brainwashing of My Dad (see this New York Times review); that isn't in the article. There is no verifiably independent source in the page – the closest to that is an interview in Kotori Magazine. There are claims that she has written books, but no trace of them in WorldCat or the LoC, nor any entry for her on VIAF. She does have an entry in the New York Public Library Photographers’ Identities Catalog, but that is sourced to ... Wikipedia and Wikidata (and the copyvio image is taken from Commons, where I've nominated it for deletion). She is apparently the grand-daughter of Leon Mandrake, but notability is not inherited. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:36, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, but all too often notability is inherited. Or anyway so it seems in Wikipedia. This is particularly pronounced in "nobility" and the world's (quasi-) monarchies; but even aside from those ... well, today's examples are a couple whose minor notability seems entirely inherited from Oscar Wilde: Cyril Holland and Dorothy Wilde. -- Hoary (talk) 22:27, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 17:04, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 17:04, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: "In the Fall of 2010, Underground will be published and available worldwide." It's published by Xlibris. Has the world taken much notice? -- Hoary (talk) 12:14, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, where'd you find that, Hoary? Did you find an ISBN too? Anyway, it appears to be held in a grand total of zero libraries world-wide. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:31, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I looked it up at Amazon. I presume that the vanity publisher Xlibris has all its products listed (and occasionally even sold) by Amazon. -- Hoary (talk) 22:27, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:06, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

delete Not notable enough to generate any publicity from independent sources. Even one of her "interviews" appears to be solely self generated. I found references to 3 books (collections of photos); one at least may have been self published- the subject did mention one was for sale at Barnes and Noble, so presumably it did have an ISBN... However I couldnt find anything from RS; it was all passing mentions on bloggy stuff, or on the only page that works on her own website. Noone seems to have reviewed or talked about them that I could find. The only RS material was on that documentary Justletters mentioned. She is supposed to have filmed a documentary/short on the making of a Melody Sweet music video, and was an extra in it, but not even Melody Sweet's website mentions it (although the music video is posted there). Curdle (talk) 14:33, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment found the books complete with ISBN; Amazon sells Underground(978-1453562055) Barnes and Noble sell the other two; 9780998309514 and 9780998309507, published by "Mandrake Books". Still no independent reviews in RS. According to the bio there, she has an annual magazine and blog called Mandrake Magazine - ok, found https://issuu.com/kalanyc/docs/mandrakemag_2012_2013_issuu_f6893d41fae0ae. Again self published, only seems to have gone a year. There is a Demo reel on youtube which references various HBO docs, films series, that she seems to have edited,or written for but again, all self sourced and no independent commentary.Curdle (talk) 15:33, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Curdle, I know you know this, but I'm saying it for those who may not: Amazon and Barnes & Noble are booksellers, in the selling business, so not WP:RS; Amazon at least will offer stuff for sale whether or not it actually exists. In how many reputable libraries round the world did you find copies of these books? I looked and found none (see above). Just for comparison, the first result in this search for books by this not very well-known photographer is in 305 libraries, the second in 139 (I think he's probably notable, and have worked bit on the article on that assumption). Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:54, 14 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I hope that nobody here is under the illusion that something purporting to be a book becomes a real book once it gets an ISBN. Given a randomly selected 20 kg pile of recent books with ISBNs and ditto of recent books without them, the former pile is very likely to be more worthwhile. However, plenty of recent, worthwhile books lack ISBNs, and tonnes of junk have ISBNs. -- Hoary (talk) 22:29, 9 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - scant and unreliable citation suggest a lack of notability. Much of article is totally uncited. Additionally, article has some issues with promotional language and is not encyclopedic in tone. Current citations 2 and 3 don't seem to exist, citation 5 is from a press website where you can say anything you'd like, I don't like to be rude, but citation number 1 is pretty laughable. Delete, delete, delete. ^†Basilosauridae ❯❯❯Talk 23:28, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.