Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeff Winkless

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear consensus that the subject's body of work is sufficient to support notability. However, it remains the case that batter sourcing must be provided for claims made in the article, and those supporting its retention should see to that. BD2412 T 23:27, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Winkless[edit]

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A non notable voice actor. WP:BEFORE shows no evidence of substantial coverage that could help to improve the article. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 17:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP WP:ENTERTAINER is the subject specific guideline for voice actors. They have played a significant role in notable media. A major character on Castle in the Sky, the main character of Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water, Count Magnus Lee on Vampire Hunter D, etc. Dream Focus 20:29, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Are there any reliable secondary sources to back this up? Cardiffbear88 (talk) 20:58, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Their name is in the credits of the entertainment media. Primary sources are fine for things like this. Also common sense that the main character in a notable film is a notable part does not require any secondary sources to tell you that, you can hopefully think for yourself. Dream Focus 21:35, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - I’m really concerned that an editor of such experience believes this. Please read WP:BLP and come back with secondary sources. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 22:03, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - This page in a nutshell: Material about living persons added to any Wikipedia page must be written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality, and avoidance of original research. You can verify things in the credits of what they've been in. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. I don't see any information there challenged. The guideline exist to prevent any slanderous lies from being in someone's article. There is nothing that could be seen as slanderous to the person, therefore its not a BLP issue. If you can list him in the credits of the articles for the films and television shows he's been in, then you can list that information in his own article. Dream Focus 22:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        In WP:N it states that all standalone articles must be sourced using “significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject”. We currently have no evidence of this. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 22:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        It states A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right. So it doesn't have to pass the general notability guidelines that you just mentioned, if it passes a subject specific guideline like WP:ENTERTAINER Dream Focus 22:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        ...But articles must have reliable sources under WP:V and WP:OR. At the moment, there are no reliable sources. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 23:08, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        This is not original research by any possible means. You only need to verify something if it is in doubt. Is there anything listed that anyone has any reasonable doubt is true? And I added some reliable sources. Clicked the link at the top of the AFD to search for Wikipedia reliable sources, and found TV guide confirming they were in one thing, and an link to Amazon.com page which list him in the credits for another. Having this same pointless argument every single time a voice actor comes up to AFD is tiresome. Usually they are kept, sometimes not, but its just a waste of time. Been going on for years now. The Wikiproject for Anime and Manga should be where standards are discussed for this type of article, and just leave it be. Doesn't really matter if people find this information on Wikipedia, or the manga wikia https://manga.fandom.com/wiki/Jeff_Winkless or elsewhere. Not really worth the bother to constant argue over it. Dream Focus 02:55, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete with WP:REFUND. The article is poorly sourced and fails WP:GNG. I see there are Amazon sources and Dream Focus mentioned the Wikia, but those are not considered reliable sources by even WP:ANIME. I am inclined to believe this article can be kept due to WP:ENTERTAINER as long as Winkless' "notable" roles are sourced, and they are not. lullabying (talk) 18:28, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Draft move to draftspace for improvement as he does have a number of prominent roles as per WP:NACTOR but better referencing is needed imv Atlantic306 (talk) 00:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep or Redirect/Merge: For the moment, based on WP:NACTOR, I am voting "Weak Keep". There wouldn't be much of an issue verifying the subject's roles, because there a lots of hits at newspapers.com in TV listings. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of in-depth coverage, though. I have found an obituary, which I will get clipped and provide here, but I'm not sure whether it would be considered acceptable as a WP:GNG-source. Alternatively, perhaps a redirect/merge to a "List of Voice Actors" page might work—if such a page exists. Dflaw4 (talk) 14:17, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, obituaries in reliable sources count towards WP:GNG if they have significant biographical content and are not paid obituaries, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 19:34, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Atlantic306. This may be a paid obituary, I'm not sure. As soon as it is clipped I will provide it here. Dflaw4 (talk) 00:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Here is the obituary to which I referred above: here. I haven't yet read it yet, so feedback is most welcome. Dflaw4 (talk) 06:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure really, there doesn't seem to be a byline unless its been cut, it is significant content but it needs to be independent which a byline would indicate, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 00:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, Atlantic306. Is there anywhere we might be able to redirect to, like a "List of Voice Actors" page? Dflaw4 (talk) 10:50, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- Id rather put into draftspace for future improvement, as a list of actors has very little info, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 18:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:01, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep It seem that there are some sources, enough to pass GNG, but generally not in-depth on the man. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 20:09, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Editorofthewiki other than the obituary above, what sources are you referring to? Cardiffbear88 (talk) 21:07, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - There's a couple obits plus [1] [2] [3] [4]. Maybe a few Newspapers.com sources. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 01:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A BLP so a second relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 23:19, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Per reasons above. With the sources indicated, the article is good enough to pass WP:GNG. My vote stands. ASTIG😎 _{(ICE T • ICE CUBE)} 06:15, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I agree. - Ret.Prof (talk) 15:18, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. More than enough significant roles to satisfy the applicable SNGs, and no reason to believe that any of the delete proponents have done an adequate WP:BEFORE search, especially on print sources for the subject's extensive pre-internet work. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 19:34, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- SNGs do not override the need to locate reliable sources, they are merely an indication. And WP:BEFORE sets out minimum requirements before nominating an article for WP:AFD which are not exhaustive and do not cover print media. Therefore claiming someone hasn’t completed WP:BEFORE because they missed a print-only source is erroneous. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 00:14, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - can I please ask all editors to review the sources presented in this AfD, I still do not believe there is enough for WP:GNG at this stage. All of the sources presented so far are either passing mentions, unreliable sources, captions on a picture, or listicles. As a BLP the sourcing needs to be far more substantial in my view. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 00:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.