Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Green Gully Reserve

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Green Gully SC. Liz Read! Talk! 05:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Green Gully Reserve[edit]

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Green Gully Reserve (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This page fails GNG and GEOFEAT, with sourcing being deficient for SIGCOV. The current sole working external link is four sentences and insufficient for SIGCOV; other ref has a 404 error. Of the sourcing I can find:

A highly brief listing and entry from the city council, which is non-independent and non-SIGCOV IMO.
4 sentence non-SIGCOV coverage from an unreliable source. Its about us shows no staff expertise or editorial policies.
An ongoing project entry of unclear reliablility covering this briefly along with another location.
<5-sentence non-SIGCOV entry mentioning this reserve while noting a case study that has since been removed.
<5-sentence announcement on the creation of a new car park.

Overall, I am unconvinced that any of the sourcing meets GNG, and am surprised this passed NPP. I am also fine with restoring the previous redirect target, but because the BLAR was contested, AfD is the next logical step. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 04:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

*Redirect and Merge to Keilor Downs, Victoria, Green Gully SC is named after the Green Gully Reserve area, its a multi-use area. And not solely used by Green Gully SC. @GiantSnowman: Did you even read the prose on the article? Govvy (talk) 14:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, you mean the article which opens 'Green Gully Reserve is the home of Victorian Premier League team Green Gully' and which does not mention any other notable occupants? Don't be such a mardy bum. GiantSnowman 14:08, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Two things to point out, There is one ground right next to the Green Gully training pitches, but it does not belong to Green Gully, it belongs to the Keilor Wolves Soccer Club. From the prose and from the infobox, owner is City of Brimbank and not the football club. Now where do you want to go? City of Brimbank or for more accuracy Keilor Downs, Victoria?? Govvy (talk) 14:37, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Green Gully SC per GiantSnowman. The other tenant is not notable, and a brief mention could be added if necessary. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:59, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Seriously, whats wrong with people, Green Gully Reserve, is a reserve (a park area) [1], all the pitches are in the reserve, along with other sports pitches. Housing multiple things [2], the article is so wrong. I suggested a redirect, but hey it needs a total rewrite, GiantSnowman, really, your suggestion on the redirect is so wrong. @Presidentman: Did you even have a proper look? Govvy (talk) 08:43, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I concur with VickKiang's assessment of the sources in both the original nomination and their response below. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:28, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Presidentman: Is it your intention to ignore the whole nature reserve, park, play area, other sports solely to have a redirect?? Govvy (talk) 15:12, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Being rude to people is no way to encourage people to change their mind... GiantSnowman 18:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Unsurprisingly, after doing a proper looking, what we have is a massive reserve (park) under the name of Green Gully Reserve. The article needs a total overhaul, clearly the above and nomination have no interest in doing proper research otherwise they would know that the article should easily pass WP:GEOFEAT. Green Gully is a national park.[3]. Govvy (talk) 08:59, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The article you linked above shows this being a track in the Werrikimbe National Park, Oxley Wild Rivers National Park in North Coast, Country NSW. Whereas this is a Victoria park, a different state compared to NSW. This edit you made claimed that this reserve in Melbourne, Victoria and another track part in a NSW park are possibly related. This is incorrect- if you want to refactor this to be about a track in a completely different national park, then nothing here should be retained and you should start a new article anew. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 09:30, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, [4], Proludic was engaged by Brimbank City Council to provide the main attraction of the new playground at Green Gully Reserve: a landmark play tower with two thrilling slides that integrates into the natural reserve. Govvy (talk) 10:18, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, [5], Discover this 5.3-km loop trail near Keilor, Victoria. Generally considered an easy route, it takes an average of 1 h 13 min to complete. This trail is great for birding, hiking, and mountain biking, and it's unlikely you'll encounter many other people while exploring. The trail is open year-round and is beautiful to visit anytime. Govvy (talk) 10:20, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, [6] Green Gully Reserve is a wonderful adventure playground for families located in Keilor Downs, north of Melbourne. The playground highlight is the huge three story tree house tower with two connecting slides that the kids will just love exploring. Other play equipment includes swings, balancing beams, climbing ropes, nature play areas, native bird sculptures, basketball court and fitness stations. The kids will be so entertained at this park, they’ll want to fly back soon. Govvy (talk) 10:23, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, [7], Brimbank City Council is restoring Green Gully Reserve, a former tip site located above Taylors Creek to native vegetation. Building on the previous years successful revegetation of 3,000 seedlings at Green Gully Reserve, Brimbank city council enaged Anglopac Environmental in Spring 2011 to install 6,000 seedlings on the site. The hill side has now been transformed into a forest of tree guards. The native species planted there will establish over the next 6 months and flourish with the amazing growth already witnessed from previous years seedlings. The friable and nutrient rich soils will help the seedlings to out compete the weeds and provide soil stability for the steep slopes and provide habitat for the flora and fauna in the area. Govvy (talk) 10:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    These references indeed are about the same reserve, unlike the link to the NSW national park. But I've analysed this in my nomination, whereas these two encompass IMO non-reliable UGC content (the articles include reviews by users with no subject-matter-expertise, and is akin to sites like TripAdvisor, that IMO doesn't help in notability). Finally, this website has a basic about us page but insufficient editorial control (i.e., staff page, editorial policies, and the like) to be a reliable source. I understand that we disagree in whether the materials here are sufficient regarding whether they are reliable and meet significant coverage. I have already commented enough to make my case, and will leave it for other editors to the opine. So I will abstain from commenting further. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 10:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Btw, @VickKiang: Did you look at the map? See where the pin is, that is the grounds and sports area, then to the right on the map you see all the green space, so the reserve runs from Keilor Downs all the way to Keilor East. You should understand the scale of the reserve from that. So all that area redirected to a football stadium makes no sense to me. Regards. Govvy (talk) 08:11, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    But the problem is that the other green is not part of the Green Gully Reserve but part of the Brimbank Park. Yes I agree that the latter is notable, but it is not part of the Green Gully Reserve. It is true that I have not been to there (I do not live in Melbourne), but I have carefully inspected the map, and have researched this, with no sourcing treating this reserve and the other park separated by a road as the same. In the other AfD, you say that I've never been to there. That is completely true- I do not live in Melbourne, but it is unpersuasive and unrelated to notability. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 08:21, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The link you provided is for a place in the state of New South Wales. The article we are currently discussing is about a reserve in the state of Victoria. Two completely different parks in different states. TarnishedPathtalk 07:54, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting but just because some online sources attest to Green Gully Reserve being a great place does not constitute SIGCOV of this article subject.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:37, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify that as a nom I still support a redirect to either Keilor Downs, Victoria or Green Gully SC. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 08:14, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - User:Govvy - I wasn't involved in this AFD until you mentioned it on my user talk page. I haven't yet reviewed the article or its sources. But what is clear to me is you, User:Govvy, are insulting other editors. Did you even have a proper look? and Did you look at the map? are disrespectful to other editors. Civility is the fourth pillar of Wikipedia. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or Redirect - A review of the sources shows that they are all tourist information sites, and as such are not independent sources. Tourist guidebooks published by independent publishers are independent secondary sources contributing to notability, but these are not tourist guidebooks.
Reference Number Reference Comments Independent Significant Reliable Secondary
1 anglopac.com.au Web site of a conservation group that has restored the park No Yes Yes No
2 alltrails.com Description of a hiking trail at the park No Yes Yes No
3 melbourneplaygrounds.com.au Description of facilities in the park including dog runs No Yes Yes No
4 play.com.tennis.au A guide to tennis courts and clubs in Australia No Yes Yes No
The article as written does not establish general notability because it is does not establish independent coverage. Not expressing an opinion at this time as to whether to redirect to the football club or to the town. Maybe Govvy's arguments are based on sources that they have read that are not listed. If so, adding the sources and tying them into the article might be the Heywood criterion.

Robert McClenon (talk) 00:52, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Have rebuilt the article, added more citations, added citation ideas to talk page. Changed info box over to Infobox park. Please review. Govvy (talk) 10:14, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Sorry to comment again. Of the talk page sources, ref 1 is a submission from Brimbank City Council on a proposed change to the park. Because they played a large role in constructing and updating the park, I do not believe it is independent. The other three new refs are clear trivial mentions. So I still support a redirect to either of the two mentioned targets. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 10:23, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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