Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ewa Borkowska (speed skater, born 1973)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Barkeep49 (talk) 02:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ewa Borkowska (speed skater, born 1973)[edit]

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No evidence that she is notable. She competed in one ISU Speed Skating World Cup event in her own country, finishing at the back of the pack[1][2] in both disciplines. Her namesake is a lot more notable, but makes searching for sources obviously a lot harder (they even competed in the same World Cup, just to make things complicated). Even seemingly good sources confuse the two, compare this[3] with this (14th place at the 3000m)... Fram (talk) 08:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Correcting an obvious typo in nomination-text because linked source for the text says 3000 meter instead of 300 meter which is a totally different distance in this case. Best regards Migrant (talk) 21:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Fram (talk) 08:01, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Lard Almighty (talk) 11:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:48, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A speed skater who competed at the highest level speed skating international competition where only a limited skaters can compete in. I can list 100s of articles of speed skaters who never made it to the World Cups. In addition she medaled at national championships. She was one of the best Polish speed skaters in that era. Poland was a county with good speed skaters, and was written about in Polish sources. As the competitions were in the pre-internet era; references should be found in Polish newspapers. However; not available online. Also for article of one of the most important Polish women speed skaters Zofia Nehringowa (I wrote recently) who had all world records; the important prose information is from Polish newspapers; by luck Polish Speed Skating published a scan of it: see here. The nominator was confused with other speed skater Ewa Borkowska (speed skater, born 1967). Even with the confuse tag at the top; and with the proper references; he was still confused. As stated, even reliable sources confuse the two speed skaters! Before creating this article I was confused as well. With the creation of this article it becomes more clear there are two international Polish speed skater with the same name. Take in mind we build Wikipedia for the readers. If this article helps the readers and helps with the speed skating knowledge for the world, it’s also of value to keep this article. As they have the same surname, it’s likely they were somehow related to each other. If so; this would be highly likely mentioned in newspapers. Also a note: English speaking countries have never been a real speed skating nation. For that reason even pages about the main championships and competitions have not been created at the English Wikipedia (while created in many other countries). Not all my questions regarding to speed skaters are answered at NSPORT. So with such a short Delete statements above; I assume this are people who don’t know anything regarding to speed skating. Luckily deletion is about reasoning; not counting. SportsOlympic (talk) 21:05, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment She won no international competitions and set no records. She is not notable. We don't have articles on everyone who has ever competed ibn one or two competitions. As for the short statements, the nomination says all that needs to be said. There is no need to repeat it. Per nom says what it means. Lard Almighty (talk) 05:54, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: To clear things up a bit I tried to ask around with some speed skating knowledgeable people at a facebook-group I'm in with Melanie Symalla (Symallas connection with Speedskatingnews.info and she is also an international speed skating referee at international championsship level for International Skating Union) and others, and they confirmed that both skaters named Ewa Borkowska (Ewa Justyna Wasilewska-Borkowska and Ewa Sylwia Borkowska), have participated in international championships and I would guess that there would be some better sources at the Polish Speed Skating Association / pl:Polski Związek Łyżwiarstwa Szybkiego (pzls.pl). And in the thread that I started in the facebook-group, there came an important piece of information that the other skater named at Speedskatingnews.info as Ewa Justyna Wasilewska-Borkowska, quote: “Ewa Justyna has married in 1990 and changed her name to Wasilewska.” Best regards Migrant (talk) 21:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Participated in international championships and medalled in national championships. Best regards Migrant (talk) 21:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I had challenged the information in the article (personal bests and so on) because of what I found on speedskatingnews, but SpotsOlympic claimed it wasn't a reliable source (despite adding it to the article in the first place). Either the info there is reliable, and then most of the current article is wrong and woefully incomplete (and all other articles created by SportsOlympic need a thorough check as well), or the info on speedskatingnews is right. To verify this, we need, not people on facebook, but reliable sources like newspapers, or primary sources like the ISU. If the information on participation in international championships can't be verified from such sources, then we can't accept speedskatingnews as a source.
- Now, Speedskatingnews claims she participated in the 1991 World Allround Championships.[4] But Schaatsstatistieken.nl makes the same claim about the other Borkowska[5]. Inconclusive, until one looks at all her results at speedskatingnews, which claimls that she competed at the 1987 Berlin World Cup, when she would have been 13 years old. So I guess we can safely dismiss speedskatingnews as an unreliable site, despite what has been said on Facebook. Fram (talk) 07:44, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – assuming for a split second that the "Warsaw" part (30 November to 1 December 1991) of the 1991–92 ISU Speed Skating World Cup [pl; de; nl; ko] would be a notable event in its own right (which seems highly unlikely: no Wikipedia seems to have a separate article on that Warsaw event), then it can safely be said that Ewa Borkowska (speed skater, born 1973) had a minor role in that event, and that her participation in that event is the only claim to fame on which her Wiki-notability rests. In which case (still assuming for a split second that the Warsaw 1991 event would be notable in its own right) WP:1E applies, which has, for instance, "When the role played by an individual in the event is less significant, an independent article may not be needed, and a redirect is appropriate" – so, no way, the article on this skater does not pass any sort of notability criterion. The sum is: non-notable contribution to a not quite notable event. If the event were notable, the Ewa Borkowska (speed skater, born 1973) article title could be a redirect to that event (assuming she would be worth mentioning on the Wikipedia page about that event), but since none of that seems to materialise, not even by a far approximation, the Ewa Borkowska (speed skater, born 1973) article title should, under current circumstances, not exist in Wikipedia. --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:42, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: There is, in fact, no consensus-approved SNG covering speedskaters, who must stand or fall either on making the Olympics or meeting the GNG; no notability criterion accords them presumptive notability merely for being a champion or participating in general international competition. Nor do we confer presumptive notability to subjects with articles on other national wikis. There has been ample time to put sources in the article were there any significant coverage out there. This has not been done. Ravenswing 06:06, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I completely agree with the last two delete voters. She doesn't meet any sort of general notability standard and there is no approved assumed notability guideline for speedskaters, outside of making the Olympics (which she hasn't) or meeting the GNG. Participating in a general international or regional competition isn't enough. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:28, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.