Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eric Hovde

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to 2024 United States Senate election in Wisconsin. There is a good case for arguing that this discussion should be closed as No consensus but taking in all comments, I'm closing this discussion as a Redirect to the election article. This will preserve article content in case his notability changes after the election but acknowledges those editors arguing for Delete who state that he presently isn't notable enough for a standalone article in main space. So, it's a bit of a compromise and I think a Redirect is more helpful for readers rather that moving the page to Draft space. If his situation changes after the election this summer, this discussion closure can be revisited. Liz Read! Talk! 04:53, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Hovde[edit]

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Eric Hovde (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:NPOL. Coverage is of his campaign and does not establish WP:GNG apart from his candidacy for office. Marquardtika (talk) 17:35, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Additional comment Said subject has now been endorsed by 45; only noting this in case we have to relist, still looking to draftify and develop this. Nate • (chatter) 23:03, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The nomination says the subject "Does not meet WP:NPOL," but that doesn't really tell us anything. That standard identifies cases where we can presume a politician is notable, but it doesn't say that other politicians are not notable. Nor is this a case of WP:BIO1E; by its own terms that rule ("cover the event, not the person") loosens considerably as the coverage of the event or person grows. Here, we're talking about sustained coverage of not only the race but of the subject himself.
Moreover, it's clear that the subject is notable for his involvement in a variety of endeavors with no substantial connection to the current campaign, such as:
70.167.90.50 (talk) 21:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Driving a dive bar out of business doesn't get you an article. Being in investment person isn't notable. Oaktree b (talk) 22:25, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A breakdown of the articles you cite: Rolling Stone: Coverage of a local real estate deal. Business Insider: The mention of Hovde Capital is trivial to the mention of Bill Ackman. That trivial mention is because of a New York Times guest column. New York Times: One-off guest columnist does not create notability under WP:AUTHOR. OC Register: A brief mention in the buying of a bankrupt builder in a local publication in a local area where Hovde is at least a part time resident. You are more than welcome to revise the article add these sources. Maybe it'll influence editors the article should not be redirected or deleted.--Mpen320 (talk) 16:51, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete So it's PROMO. Outside of politics, he has barely a paragraph about his financial career, so I'm not seeing notability. He's not notable as a hedge fund person, there is only confirmation of political campaigns. Oaktree b (talk) 22:24, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The subject is notable as demonstrated through the over 22 sources cited. However the article needs work and should be fleshed out in regard to his business endeavors Microplastic Consumer (talk) 22:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He has run for office twice--once in 2012 and once in 2024--so no. Marquardtika (talk) 14:59, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify: article seems premature, could change as the campaign goes by. Though the article should definitely be deleted if he loses the primary in August, unless a suitable reason to keep it (or make a full article) emerges. Talthiel (talk) 20:06, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Hovde has been in Wisconsin politics for longer than just 2024. He can also be considered a humanitarian, given his charity organization. I would also argue that Wikipedia is a site for information about people of importance. This page can be used to help people learn more about Hovde, not just as a politician but as a man as well. In short, Hovde is an important figure for his charity work and his political campaigns, and I argue his page should stay up as more people would continue to add to the page. AbsoluteKermity (talk) 22:51, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify, delete and/or redirect. As always, people do not get Wikipedia articles just for standing as candidates in elections they haven't already won — the notability test at WP:NPOL is holding a notable office, not just running for one — but this article is failing to demonstrate sustained notability in other contexts besides non-winning election campaigns. The number of footnotes an article has is not a notability claim in and of itself, either, especially when a considerable number of them are primary sources that do not constitute support for notability — GNG is not just "count up the hits and keep anybody who's surpassed an arbitrary cutoff number", and takes into account the context of what any given source is "covering" the topic for, but the merely expected run of the mill campaign coverage in the context of an election is not a notability-securing context. Bearcat (talk) 18:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Arguing the WP:NPOL rule is moot when you consider the criteria of "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage." In Wisconsin, where I live, Hovde is gaining considerable media coverage, and has been positioned as the most likely to win the Republican primary. While yes, it is not certain that he will win, if he does win it will be contradictory to recreate this article for him again. I will also argue his campaign is not run of the mill as you suggested, but holds many interesting aspects, including his positions on immigration and alcohol. AbsoluteKermity (talk) 21:51, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage" is for mayors and city councillors, not unelected candidates for anything. And even winning the primary still wouldn't be grounds for an article: the baseline for recreation would be winning the general election in November. Bearcat (talk) 03:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There's not even a good redirect target as there's absolutely no point to this article apart from the fact they were a failed candidate and even includes elections he thought about running in, but didn't. Absolutely not notable enough. SportingFlyer T·C 23:00, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: There are way smaller stubs about less notable political figures on Wikipedia, so I think it has merit to stay, at least in a greatly restructured form. Serious discussion for deletion should wait until after the primary on August 13th, with him winning or losing being the reason to delete or not. If he wins, he becomes a major party's nominee in a heavily contested Senate race, making him a notable political figure for at least the 2024 cycle. Him winning the nomination also gives him more media attention, and therefore more robust citations and factoids for the article. If he loses, I am fine with deletion and rolling it under 2024 United States Senate election in Wisconsin page. Ultimately, we should wait until after the primary to make such a decision. Dillguy9 (talk) 16:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Per others Cannolorosa (talk) 20:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify: Subject does not meet the WP:GNG or WP:NPOL as a failed political nominee in a single election. Is a case of WP:TOOSOON. Let'srun (talk) 20:59, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: he's currently the leading candidate for the Republican primary in Wisconsin, a state that elects a lot of Republicans. People will be looking him up. If he loses, we can delete it then. Mareino (talk) 22:10, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: A US senate candidate is always of public interest and therefore notable. Considering that it is hard to get a comprehensive view of a candiate's stances and that campaign websites are inherently biased in favour of the candidate, it would be a loss to delete the article. 2003:E2:AF1B:5F01:9DA1:29C7:E339:C5D3 (talk) 23:39, 3 April 2024 (UTC) lars 01:38, 4 April 2024 (CET)[reply]
The relevant question isn't "is he in the current news cycle right now?" — it's "if he loses the election and then never does anything else, so that having been an unsuccessful candidate in an election is his peak notability for all time, then will people still be looking for information about him 20 or 30 or 50 years into the future?" We're writing history here, not news, and just being a candidate in an election is not grounds for permanent inclusion in an encyclopedia in and of itself. Bearcat (talk) 15:54, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Subject has received substantial coverage in reliable sources and its reasonable to assume it will be sustained coverage as he's the Republican nominee for a highly competitive US senate race. ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 23:46, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The closing admin should note that there is a semi-viral tweet directing people here, hence the sudden influx of people. EoRdE6(Talk) 00:25, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Off-wiki link in question: [1] - Skipple ☎ 00:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Fits the notability guidelines. Multiple sources cited in the article demonstrate reliable, significant coverage independent of the subject. This includes NBC News, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and HuffPost.--Panian513 00:45, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify: As others have noted, he does not meet notability guidelines unless he wins. Mad Mismagius (talk) 11:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This is not about the number of responses. The arguments and sources are not impressive. To keep such an article, make a stronger case based on police, reliable sources, and clear evidence of notability beyond simply running for office.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 09:40, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Discuss 0nshore's contributions!!!) 14:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete/Draftify: just echoing what others have said, but he has no notability whatsoever outside of the context of the election, which already has its own article and covers all necessary information. if he becomes a Senator, this can be revisited. Griffindaly (talk) 19:54, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Usually, that is done in cases where the candidate wins the primary and is a nominee in the general election. Hovde is currently only a primary candidate. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:32, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I come again to defend this. I don't see why the page should be taken down. Hovde is a businessman who also heads a charitable organization. If you argue he is not popular enough to notable enough to have a page, then I want to argue that it is hard to say what is and isn't notable. Via the WP:NPOL guidelines, a candidate must have gained considerable coverage.[a][b]
Hovde covers most, if not all the bases for somebody to have a page. I don't see any clear reason why it would be logical to delete a page that is not harming anybody by staying up. Wikipedia was founded to have free information for all, and it's best we stay to that. A page about Hovde can help people learn about him, and give them primary sources to learn about his policies and his background. AbsoluteKermity (talk) 21:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC) — Duplicate !vote: AbsoluteKermity (talk • contribs) has already cast a !vote above.[reply]
Keep: I don't think we should be counting out Hovde just yet. It's very likely he'll win the Republican primary, and like others have said, if he wins the primary, but loses the general elections, then the page could be deleted. I don't see why the page has to be deleted just because he's "not someone notable." MisterWeegee (talk) 22:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is actually an argument for deletion, because we have a rule that once you're notable, you're always notable. If we'd delete him when he lost, that means he's not notable yet. SportingFlyer T·C 22:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. And we aren't counting [him] out at all. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirectto 2024 United States Senate election in Wisconsin as a usual and appropriate outcome. (also everything per Bearian and Bearcat) There are many Wikipedia policies that explain suggest why this project should not be a repository of campaign material, including no requirement for fairness. --Enos733 (talk) 03:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to 2024 United States Senate election in Wisconsin or 2012 United States Senate election in Wisconsin. The article states that Eric Holvde is a candidate for statewide office, businessman, financier, and banker. First, WP:NPOL guidelines do not confer a presumption of notability onto candidates, but some candidates can meet GNG for their candidacies. Example candidates like Christine O'Donnell, Lar Daly, or Pro-Life (born Marvin Thomas Richardson) are a guide to what I am referring. Holvde's candidacy has received run of the mill coverage from national publications that any swing-state, statewide candidate would receive in a media climate where political hobbyists like me obsess over elections. It also over-relies on the AP article about his campaign further demonstrating the failure of significant coverage. This fails the significant coverage test. Sources should also be independent of the subject, for which the issues section fails. Anything that is not the AP article is his Twitter and his website. Businessman, financier, and banker, while all separate things, in layperson terms are redundant. If we take the extent of his business career as found in non-secondary sources via Google search at face-value, I cannot say it would fail GNG. However, that's not what the article is at present or has ever been. Nothing in any searches lead me to believe we should presume it can be established. The article also engages in a number of efforts to mask the lack of notability via "building a biography." Do we really need to know every time he chose not to run for office? That's ultimately trivial. Millions of people choose not to run every cycle. In the early life section, the bulk of it is information about his father who is not the subject of this article. Notability is not inherited by family ties alone. The likliehood he will be the Republican nominee is irrelevant as Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We cannot have an article based on possible notability once election season really gets underway. Finally, as I always try to leave for candidate deletion discussions, an article about yourself is not a good thing.--Mpen320 (talk) 15:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
References inserted by contributors
  1. ^ https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2024/04/05/eric-hovde-abortion-wisconsin/
  2. ^ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/finance-and-economy/2956070/wisconsin-senate-eric-hovde-bipartisan-commission-debt-trap/

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More on redirect vs. draftify as an ATD please.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, voorts (talk/contributions) 01:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Redirecting is more appropriate per Wikipedia:POLOUTCOMES. To quote POLOUTCOMES, they are not moved to user space for fear of establishing a precedent that any premature article about an as-yet-unelected candidate for office can be kept in draftspace pending election returns, effectively making draftspace a repository for campaign brochures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpen320 (talk • contribs)
  • Delete Per the terrible keep arguments presented above. Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of people and events. Any candidate for statewide office will attract routine coverage. This does not equate to enduring notability. AusLondonder (talk) 14:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The subject does not, and indeed, cannot meet NPOL since he has never held elected office. He can, of course, be found notable per the general notability guideline, but I do not see significant coverage to support it. Would those supporting the article care to point to WP:THREE sources that best establish the subject's claim? Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 03:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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