Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death of Christopher Lane

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I fully expect this to head straight for DRV (just let me know, whoever does it) but I simply can't see any rebuttal of WP:NOTNEWS here. Black Kite (talk) 22:44, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Christopher Lane[edit]

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This death is unpleasant rather than notable. I fear that drive by killings happen all the time. They do make the news, but, unless significant for other reasons, then they fade away as unremarkable, but unpleasant, incidents. WP:NOTNEWS applies. We are sad for those who knew and were affected by the dead young man, but this cannot be an article here unless his death is otherwise notable than being just another drive by killing.

We must not confuse personal and press outrage with true notability of the event. It was unpleasant, sad, perhaps even shocking in its brutal banality, but not in any way notable in a Wikipedia sense. Fiddle Faddle 22:51, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Nothing to set it apart from most drivebys, except the victim was Australian. Giving that weight over cases of Americans being shot for fun isn't the neutral thing, regardless of what newspapers do. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:58, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:20, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Oklahoma-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:21, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 23:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Well sourced from multiple reliable independent news outlets. Kinston eagle (talk) 01:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Doesn't meet GNG at all. The player himself is not notable, let alone the death. Mpejkrm (talk) 03:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete clear case of where WP:NOTNEWS applies. Nick-D (talk) 09:48, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, incredibly tragic, but we're not a newspaper. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:03, 23 August 2013 (UTC).[reply]
Keep The racial issues of this shooting on the heels of the Trayvon Martin shooting, and the contrasts to the circumstances of the latter, have made it noteworthy, and internationally so because of the victim's citizenship. John2510 (talk) 15:27, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This may be worth a read. The notability is inherited by comparison only, not of its own. Could reasonably exist as a section in Trayvon Martin#Media coverage or a paragraph in the "Verdict implications" section. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:11, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the alleged racial issues if entered into the article are WP:SYNTH. One cannot connect the two shootings except isofar as a gun was used. One was a vigilante who shot a kid, the other was three bored youths who allegedly shot a kid. Ah yes, there's a link with kids, too. Every killing with guns and kids os not notable. Fiddle Faddle 07:51, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This has become a major news story in both the U.S. and Australia (i.e. its an international news story) -- Evans1982 (talk) 16:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. International news story, because it has received a lot of media attention in both Australia and the U.S. It is a very unusual case of a drive-by shooting, involving a foreign student in the U.S. being a victim of a random attack. The suspected motive of this shooting is strange, and some people believe that it was a racially motivated shooting. This shooting also changed the opinion of the U.S. for many Australians, because of its high gun homicide rate. Cyanidethistles (talk) 17:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the international angle has made this shooting more notable than other drive-by killings. It's still attracting media attention a week later, e.g.:[1] Given that the story is still 'live' as far as the media are concerned, it seems to me seriously premature to declare it non-notable by our standards. Robofish (talk) 18:04, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - to declare this not notable is premature as it is notable as of today per coverage.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:49, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Coverage in secondary sources makes it notable. Nightscream (talk) 20:35, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Wide media coverage. It has been covered outside the US and Australia as well. --Jaakko Sivonen (talk) 20:47, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "It's in the news" is an argument to avoid. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Despite the guide to which you link, I note that "In the News" is a major heading on WP's home page. While WP "isn't the news" - newsworthy subjects are certainly a foundation of WP, whether WP wants to admit it or not. Today's news is tomorrow's (and properly today's) encyclopedia entry. I don't think this isn't the sort of local or passing story to which the guide refers. John2510 (talk) 03:51, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Newsworthiness and notability are distinct. "Timeliness" and "Sensationalism" are two keys to newsworthiness taught in journalism schools, but not in our guidelines. The hot air surrounding the story is developing into a story of its own, due to the proximity of the Trayvon Martin thing. This hot air is only loosely connected to the event, it does not change the event itself or its direct consequences. Do you remember the week after the Miami cannibal attack? Papers were leading with every vaguely "zombie-ish" story they would have otherwise ignored, trying to invent a pattern. I think there were eight in the news that week. Probably eight in the world this week, but it's not timely anymore. And this is just as unenduring as those. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:37, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This was more than just a mundane news story about a drive-by shooting. This was an incident that it fairly notable and has gotten the attention of many people. I asked several of my friends online who live all across the US, and they all were aware of this incident. Where I live in California, most people seem to have heard of this incident and seem to be interested to learn more about it as the trial unfolds. 98.207.226.90 (talk) 08:02, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Google News is far better for keeping up with current events, as it was expressly designed to do. Wikinews is no hit, I admit, but it's the closest you'll get with a "Wiki" on the front, for more routine stuff. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:19, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Basic notnews. WikiNews exists, people! (I know by saying that some guy is bound to retort with "wickinews sux lol" but the truth is is that this stuff is what WikiNews was made for.) Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 02:33, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The media coverage and public interest continue to increase around this story. It is most certainly notable. -- Caponer (talk) 19:17, 24 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I'm not sure which way to go, but would lean towards Delete. Yes it is front page new right now, but is seems in terms of being notable that it's too soon to tell. It involved an Aussie, which in itself will cause international writings, as to if the interest keeps up it's just too soon. Caffeyw (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:57, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no lasting notability. Spanneraol (talk) 17:37, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Significant coverage by reliable sources for several days now. Sufficiently notable for an article per WP:GNG. --Philpill691 (talk) 23:01, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Worth keeping: plenty of RS, and has drawn noteworthy remarks from the Australian Prime Minister, among others. SteveStrummer (talk) 17:55, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This page is about deleting the article about the event. The article only mentions a comment from the former deputy Prime Minister, and it's only basically "Consider your safety before travelling to a country with many shootings". Not remarkable advice. If the event is notable, the article should reflect it. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:12, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Yes this was in the news, yes it was a terrible event, yes it has WP:RS coming out of its ears but these are primary news reports not analytical coverage. As there is no lasting significance claimed or demonstrated it fails the inclusion policy WP:NOTNEWS (which trumps all GNG arguments above). According to various sources there are in excess of about 8k gun related deaths in the US each year or about 20 per day, what sets this one above all the rest in terms of its lasting effect ? If this could be demonstrated to have a impact on Australia–United States relations or be be a catalyst for yet another push on US gun control then that would be different, absent that WikiNews is that way -----> . LGA _talk^edits 21:04, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Right-wing media freak-out reaction is notable.[2] Could be renamed to Reaction to death of Christopher Lane. — goethean 15:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails Wikipedia:Notability (events). No evidence that there will be any lasting effects or coverage beyond a relatively short news cycle. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 14:53, 29 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment According to the White House, Obama has given his routine "thoughts and prayers" and "young life cut short" reaction on "too many" tragic occasions. I'm not saying the White House is infallible (or close), but it does carry a bit of weight. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:01, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This can be turned into a one-sentence note in 'US-Australia relations' or something. Tens of thousands of people are shot in the US every year. Welcome to America. -165.132.180.167 (talk) 14:36, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Tragic - but so are all the other killings that go to make up the appalling US homicide statistics. Of no enduring significance in itself. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:42, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It's fairly clear by now that this went nowhere from an "enduring impact" perspective, and so fails WP:NOTNEWS. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 16:04, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.