Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Church 2011

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. WP:NPASR. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Church 2011[edit]

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WP:NOTNEWS, basically. While sourcing to several newspapers in two countries has been offered, there's no indication that this memo has long-term notability. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:17, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I don't see how this is materially different from Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience. It's signed by a lot of notable people (mostly redlinks in the English article, but a lot more bluelinks in the German article), and it's not merely a routine event - may I suggest waiting, and nominating it again if it fades into obscurity, rather than deleting it right away? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Incubate I had deliberated about the viability of this article when I first saw it, but decided to clean it up and keep an eye on it. I agree with Sarek's rationale, though -- it is too soon to tell if this proclamation will have any lasting effect. I think it might be a significant step in what I see as an upcoming major shakeup in the Catholic Church (between the world wide sex scandals and the increased pressure for married and women clergy, I can't see the church having the same form in 20 years), but then, it might just be a blip and totally forgotten in 6 months. I would recommend incubating this article for a year or so, to see if any significant reactions occur based on its publication. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:35, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i live in Germany. The memorandum has in Germany, Austria and Switzerland a high importance and you can read over it in each german, austrian, swiss newspapers. Around half of all german, austrian and swiss catholic theology professor signed that memorandum. So a strong KEEP from Germany. 92.252.80.144 (talk) 02:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC) — 92.252.80.144 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wait and see There should be plenty of RS for this, even though the content is not terribly helpful in its current form. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be available to be added t the article. Jclemens (talk) 00:48, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am from Germany, too. And at the moment the Memorandum has virtually disappeared from the media. The discussion in the media was an undecided slugfest between supporters and opponents of the memorandum. An internet based counterpetition gained as much support as a memorandum-supporting petition(Both about 10.000 subscribers). At the moment the discussion is absolutely open. In about one week the German bishops will have their annual spring reunion. Then we will see, wether the memorandum was the start of an upshake or wether it will slowly follow the Cologne Declaration from 1989, fading away without any consequence. Thus, I also vote Wait and see -- 178.0.172.238 (talk) 18:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

strong Keep also from Spain and many spanish speaking countries in Latinamerica now catholic professors signed that memorandum Church 2011. The counter memorandum was not very important (under ten catholic theology professors signedt that opponent memorandum and had no support under catholic german, swiss and austrian theology professors). So the reform memorandum with now over 300 catholic theology professors, who signed that memorandum, has a high importance and is in german media still very successfull. 92.252.102.93 (talk) 16:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not all of the 300 subscribers are professors. In fact in Germany of 250 subscribers only 104 were professors (of ca. 400 catholic professors at all). 40% of the signing professors were already retired. No young professor signed. Moreover the memorandum wants to be a contribution to a dialogue process started by the German bishops. It deals with the situation in Germany. Trying to "transform" the memorandum in a sort of worldwide "upshake", etc. might even further diminish its impacts. After three days of attention after the release of the memorandum, the medias rested silent over the subject. Perhaps this is a simple sign of the decreasing importance of religious debates in Europe and especially in Germany. We will see. 178.0.172.238 (talk) 21:18, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

and i have to say, the article Manhattan Declaration: A Call of Christian Conscience is not so important than an article over memorandum Church 2011. That Manhattan Declaration knows noone in whole Germany, Swiss or Austria. Memorandum Church 2011 know thousands of German, Austrian, Swiss people and also in Spain and spanish speaking coutries that memorandum has success. So Manhattan Declaration is only a declaration for the United States, but Church 2011 is a declaration for many countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, ... 92.252.102.93 (talk) 16:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:OTHERSTUFF, it is irrelevant whether the Manhattan Declaration article should remain or not. That is the topic for a different discussion. The topic of this discussion is the Church 2011 declaration, which needs more time before its notability and long term historic effect can be gauged. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 03:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article can be deleted. It is an interesting fact, but there is no more discussion (or even editing) about it. There was a little fire in the press followed by the voting campaigns in the internet. But now, after the reception of the memorandum by the german bischops, there are no more reactions at all. Perhaps this article can be incubated to look for the further development. At the moment there is no relevance and the article in its present form is not very helpful at all. 194.76.232.207 (talk) 15:05, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

so the list had a great and strong impact on discussions in catholic church. More than Manhattan Declaration, which noone knows outside US. In autumn Benedikt XVI. will travvel to Germany and then the discussion will be harder and very strong in German media. So always a strong keep from me. 92.252.78.159 (talk) 23:25, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, /ƒETCH COMMS / 18:46, 20 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Acather96 (talk) 17:08, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Was only a short spark. There is no more discussion. Article should be incubated. After the Pope's visit to germany we will see, wether there is any relevance or not. 178.0.172.238 (talk) 20:13, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.