Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calvin Prasad

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. @pple complain 15:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Calvin Prasad

Calvin Prasad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

The article states that this person is notable based on his chess achievements. However:

• His ELO rating is really weak: 1843 while he would need at least 2600 to be notable (based on consensus developed in Wikipedia:WikiProject Chess).
• He is "the first male chess player to earn a Candidate Master title for Fiji", but this title of "Candidate Master" is not notable neither. Here I cannot do without a bit of technical explanations: in the world of chess, the title "Fide Master" is ahead of "Candidate Master", "International Master" is ahead of "Fide Master", "Grandmaster" is ahead of "International Master", and only "Grandmaster" could be seen as nearly notable. (also based on consensus developed in Wikipedia:WikiProject Chess, see also Candidate Master or Category:Chess titles).

Thus this person is just a chessplayer who lives in Fidji. SyG (talk) 18:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Not just a chess player who lives in Fiji, but but the 2005 Fiji Champion. As an amateur, he has played at the highest levels of chess in Fiji: the Fijian Chess Championship and the Chess Olympiads (the chess equivalent to the Olympic Games). It is true that Fiji is not a strong nation in chess playing (the World Chess Federation, FIDE, lists only 9 Fijians with international ratings [1]), but to exclude a small nation's top performers in international competition would be systemic bias. Prasad has also named "Male Athlete of the Year" in 2006. This is not a chess specific award, this is among all male Fiji athletes. The consensus described as developed at WP:CHESS doesn't exist. I am an active member of that project and I oppose deleting this article. My personal view is Olympiad participation or victory in a national chess championship is sufficient for an article, if sources can be found that satisfy WP:V. Quale (talk) 19:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep per Quale. He's the top of his game in his home even if he is not ranked high internationally. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Comment Based on the FIDE ratings (see the list for Fiji here), he is currently the 5th player of his country, not the top one. As Quale righly underlines, the article states that he was National Champion in 2005. Unfortunately this statement is unreferenced, so for the moment I have to ignore it. SyG (talk) 09:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment: I added a reference from the official Fiji chess federation website now. Voorlandt (talk) 10:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep by analogy with regular Summer/Winter Olympics competitors being automatically notable. And he was Male Athlete of the Year (say what?). Clarityfiend (talk) 00:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• delete I think from a basis of common sense this shows the absurdity of considering high level sports in all countries to be of equal notability. International activities have international standards. DGG (talk) 04:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep: An article about the player in the Fiji Times and two notable (albeit local) awards. WP:N doesn't require the individual be notable internationally. I would love to see a diff on the WP:CHESS consensus of a 2600 rating requirement to be notable. If that is true, only about 130 FIDE chess players (in the history of the Elo rating system) are notable. Seems rather narrow doesn't it? Justin ^chat 06:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment The article in the Fiji Times listed in the references seems to be about another player (James Lenoa) who received the award "2006 Sportsman". So it does not seem to be an article about Calvin Prasad, as there is only one line about him: "Chess rep [sic] Calvin Prasad was voted National Make [sic] Athlete of the Year". Also, I do not know the difference between the local titles of "2006 Sportsman" and "2006 National Male Athlete" but given the article it seems the former one would be more important. SyG (talk) 09:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep per Quale, Voorlandt (talk) 10:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. National chess champion and national award winner is sufficient for notability. I understand DGG's concern over that winning the championship in a minor country is a lesser achievement than winning the Russian one, but then again being president/prime minister/legislator/governor/king/etc. of a small nation is considered to be an equal claim to notability as being Georg Bush/Gordon Brown/John McCain/Charlie Crist/Queen Elizabeth. The arguments of Quale are stronger and I agree with them more. I do have one concern about the article: The title of Candidate Master tends to require a rating over 2200, and 1843 is WAY below that, indeed players of 1800 level in the FIDE system are approaching the level where I can set up a reasonable fight. The FIDE rating card listed in the article makes no mention of the CM title. Is the fijichess website mistaken on this one? Sjakkalle (Check!) 15:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.