Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bryan White (motivational speaker)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 16:17, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bryan White (motivational speaker)[edit]

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I moved this to draft, but was reverted, and we are apparently supposed to then take it to AfD instead of draftifying again (even though AfD is not cleanup). Anyway, I moved it to draft as it is a rather hagiographic piece about a person where the sources show a different picture (though it is not always easy to tell which Ugandan sources are reliable and which may be a government mouth piece, as Uganda isn't the most democratic and free society). Things like this or this or this. It should be moved to draft to first make this a WP:NPOV BLP instead of this one-sided version, and only then be allowed in the mainspace. Fram (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Uganda. Fram (talk) 15:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Appears promo, I can't find sourcing for this person. I'm not aware of which Ugandan news outlets are RS to be honest. Oaktree b (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see the problems and I contacted the person to prove his recent status. I may be over trusted that guy, who sent me enough proof for his activity. I think the article should be reviewed by some Ugandan admin. He claims he was extorted by some people. I will accept any decision but let us wait for some neutral view in that complicated country. Drjmarkov (talk) 16:47, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is another article about it, which should proof his status here [1]https://mbu.ug/2020/05/26/i-made-you-lie-i-am-sorry-stella-nandawula-apologizes-to-mom/

here [2]https://www.routineblast.com/vivian-mutandas-mum-trashes-daughters-allegations-against-bryan-white-says-someone-is-using-her-listen-to-audio/

and here [3]https://mbu.ug/2023/02/03/socialite-bryan-white-announces-return-dates/.

I suggest to seek point of view of person from Uganda, who can tell are these sources reliable, because I wanted to write a biography of a good man. Drjmarkov (talk) 17:06, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I made some styling improvements and added new information about the person and his foundation.--Drjmarkov (talk) 10:27, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to pass WP:GNG.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you say the information from Ugandan sources is not enough. Uganda is an English speaking country and the English Wikipedia serves also for it and not all the stuff, happening in Uganda is expected to be published in American and European sources. Drjmarkov (talk) 05:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Press freedom and government control over media is a significant factor in determing if a source meets WP:IS, WP:RS. // Timothy :: talk 06:26, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Promo BLP fails GNG and BIO.

Agree with @Drjmarkov: on move back to mainspace so this can be deleted; they have found all the sources possible to the article, and no IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth has been added. Since a complete BEFORE by the author showed nothing that meets SIGCOV, nothing else is likely to be found showing N.

The authors comments above I contacted the person to prove his recent status and because I wanted to write a biography of a good man. show there is contact being the article subject and author, and the POV bias of the author.

BLPs are not a "wait and see if sources appear" circumstance. BLPs need clearly IS RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notability to avoid abuse per well known core policy (WP:V and WP:BLP) and guidelines (WP:BIO and WP:IS, WP:RS, WP:SIGCOV). // Timothy :: talk 06:23, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a problem about contact with a living person. And also I can't see bias, when there are sources. And they do not appear, they just are and they aren't new. I don't think there are many philanthropists in Uganda and helping the poor Ugandan people is always a good cause. I get the feeling that there is a tendency to delete every new article about living person, especially if they are young and they aren't athletes. In that situation I can't see how an article about a politician can stay if there is always controversy around their name. I can't see why you don't leave the article to be reviewed by someone from Uganda or Eastern Africa at least and not to say that African people are insignificant because only African media write about them. Drjmarkov (talk) 06:54, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some resources to answer your questions.

Please read WP:COI, WP:NPOV, and WP:OR, WP:WEIGHT. (neutrality)

Then read WP:N, and for biographies read WP:BIO, WP:BLP. For other types of article see WP:SNG. (notability)

Finally read: WP:V, WP:IS, WP:RS, and WP:SIGCOV (sourcing)

Any questions you have can be answered at the WP:TEAHOUSE

If you are going to edit Wikipedia, especially creating articles, you need at a minimum to undestand the above. It will take time to learn them, but your time will either be spent productively learning about the above, or wasted here at AfD. // Timothy :: talk 08:27, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As you have seen, or maybe didn't. I have created multiple articles, but not very soon. I know the Wikipedia policies. And that is why I ask you - why a mediocre soccer player can have an article and a person, who helps poor people cannot. Is the mediocre soccer player significant enough if only the fans of his team might know about him or not. And if a person, who have attracted attention of different Ugandan media and is obviously well-known in Uganda, is not significant enough and enough for who? I don't have any conflict of interest, since I live in Bulgaria and I have never met this man personally. Yes, there are accusations against him and they are mentioned in the article. After there are articles for convicted murderers in Wikipedia, then some unproven accusations of sexual harassment won't be a problem. I see bias here against people from "insignificant" countries like Uganda and like my own country Bulgaria. You say the sources are unreliable, but which Ugandan sources are reliable, do you know them. And as the things are going I might continue to abstain from creating articles after not a single African editor did not said their opinion. I see here people only from USA and Canada. The policy to delete an article, without collecting opinions from people, who are better informed in the matter is the thing that will discourage to write articles. I have created multiple articles about the administrative division of Afghanistan and even citing a lot of sources I had these discussions. Now these articles evolved, after I created them, but I was one of the first writing about Afghanistan. Drjmarkov (talk) 09:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I could have just ignored your reply, but I took the time and offered a newish and infrequent editor (16 years 4 months old, but with only 2,213 edits) some good advice; now it’s your choice what you do with it and you can experience the results accordingly.

I've tried to be polite, but here I will be direct: You have been on Wikipedia long enough to know when active experienced editors give you advice about an article, you should probably listen to it. Fram is a very experienced editor, and you can judge me for yourself. But I am telling your directly: Your comments above show that you do not understand notability sourcing for biographies of living persons. Other types of articles often do economize on referencing and notability and get away with it, but WP:BLPs cannot: either they have the proper sourcing for both content and notability or the article (or the improperly sourced content) is deleted. There is no wait and see attitude when articles or content about real people living real lives for which a Wikipedia article could have real world repercussions.

A final reason why I stopped to give you advice is you are AUTOPATROLED and as such you should understand BLP much better than you apparently do. // Timothy :: talk 10:41, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for being polite and also direct. I see how the things are going and also I see how the things have changed here. I will stay away from that discussion and from Wikipedia as I did before. Drjmarkov (talk) 11:57, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.